Vonmara Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 When back in 2017 I heard of multiclassing in the then upcoming PoE2, I wanted to combine my two favorite classes in the game: Cipher and Paladin.I thought the synergy between the two would be monstrous: Faith and Conviction and the defensive arsenal of the Paladin would make a squishy Cipher more than capable to dish out all the damage possible without dying. At the same time, Cipher has renewable resources, so, yay, great for solo. You never wanna run out of fire. In my first playthrough, I didn't go solo, and because of the tooltip warning against multiclass, I opted for pure Cipher. By the time I did multiple playthroughs to know the game better, Paladin got nerfed to death: - increased cost to Greater Lay on Hands - 100% to 25% Virtous Triumph proc chance - FoD nerfs left and right In light of these changes, I deemed any Paladin tank build inferior to any Fighter multiclass, having Unbending become better compared to GLoH, and not having "infinite resources" by killing enemies anymore. Boy, was I wrong. Cipher, that to many is considered one of the most boring and underpowered classes - and the rationale behind their opinion escapes me, having this class access to all types of affliction and a whopping 300+ raw damage nuke - got nerfed, most notably with:- Body Attunement from -4/+4 to -2/+2 armor - Borrowed Instinct (literally single best spell in the game) from 30s base duration to 20s. - Time Parasite from -50% to -25% (note: this is one of the few way that allowed to achieve ~0s recovery at lvl 20) I recently decided to prove myself wrong, and tried an Inquisitor. I've always been a great fan of the Ascended, which for many (party, mostly) builds is insanely good, thanks to its ability to get max focus and then spam the best single target nuke in the game on literally everyone. Alas, Ascend got nerfed, too (from 20s to 12s base duration). What was I left with? Base class, meh. Beguiler, definitely not good for non-Rogue multiclass. And Soulblade. The latter can be surprisingly good when combined with Whispers of the Endless Path, as one can Soul Strike on multiple targets, recover focus at the same time by hitting the secondary ones, thus never actually being starved of focus. The counterattack on top, allows you to keep focus high. I would like to say that this is the best weapon for this build, but what I discovered by going through all the SSS challenges, is that it is not. The best weapon for a character with all the afflictions, with high defenses but excelling in none of them (compared to Tricksters, Skaen Priest, Wizards) is versatility. This build will not point out (except for a few slots) a fixed equipment. What we aim to achieve is the best Armor against every encounter. Therefore, we will focus on boosting Armor. Similarly, the other side of the coin is having good Penetration alongside with it. We plan to have a versatile arsenal. And since we decided that versatility is the name of the game, we will save all the unnecessary ability points from the Paladin tree, and invest them to get the Cipher spells that really matter. THE RACE Pale Elf. +4 Freeze and Fire armor means one thing: versatility. THE BACKGROUND Anything, but White that Wends for RP, and bonus to Perception never hurts. THE STATS Might 15 Constitution 7 Dexterity 15 Perception 20 (race+region) Intellect 18 Resolve 3 Justification: as Victor Creed / aka Raven Darkholme/ aka diamondsforever always says: we are more than justified to dump RES, as we can make up for it with Berath's Blessing, Pet bonuses, and No-Rest approaches. For more on this, please do consult the thread in this very same forum (https://goo.gl/oda1EU). High PER is because nobody wants to waste focus to see Cipher Powers miss. Good MIG 'cause none of the Paladin passives/actives increases our spell damage (which is mostly DoT). Good DEX 'cause some Powers take long to cast. CON on 7 is what I think every build should have: if you have access to heals, CON is unimportant; if you have ridiculously high Defenses, CON is unimportant. This class is not the best at neither of the two approches, but doing decently in both turns out to be more than enough. The "7" score specifically is because with Berath Blessing and Effigy's Sacrifice - Durance it allows to hit the 10 CON sweet spot, and being bonus/penalties multiplicative, one would rather not have any malus to HP, in case some ridiculous burst occurs (there is a Druid in SSS that hits for 200+ with 30 Penetration with Sunlance. We definitely don't want to go from full HP to 0 against such enemies). High INT, cause it's a caster/buffer/debuffer. THE SUBCLASSES Goldpact and Soulblade. THE ABILITIES 1 Whispers of Treason + SoulStrike ; Lay on Hands + Gilded Enmity 2 Deep Faith 3 Iron Will 4 Draining Whip ; Paladin Auras 5 Inspired Defenses 6 Retribution 7 Hammering Thoughts 8 Sworn Rival 9 Greater Lay on Hands 10 Body Attunement ; Exalted Endurance 11 Secret Horrors 12 Soul Ignition 13 Borrowed Instinct ; Righteous Soul 14 Ringleader 15 Practiced Healer 16 Disintegration ; Virtuous Triumph 17 The Empty Soul 18 Bear's Fortitude 19 Fractured Volition ; Stoic Steel 20 Weapon Style: choose what you like the most. This build benefits from all three. Justification: "NO FLAMES OF DEVOTION, WTF", yes. Ability is overrated. When you get a +25% damage from Retribution and a +20% from Draining Whip, spending a point of Zeal for a +10% lash rather than on a usage of Lay on Hands is very, very unefficient. Also, that would mean losing 2 Abilities from level 7 up. Now, I sincerely believe that everything above on PL 3+ is better than Eternal Devotion. If you think otherwise and can point out why in the comments, I'd happily discuss. Now: why not going for Sworn Rival instead? A +20% damage that returns the point whenever you kill. More on that here: https://goo.gl/j4dnPG Body Attunement and Exalted Endurance on the same level is one of those things I always regret, as the two bonuses don't stack. But reducing enemy Armor is too good to pass on. Secret Horrors for the Frightened Status, Fractured Volition for the Weakened. It's better to have two Tier2 Afflictions than a mix of Tier1/Tier2 from picking just one of them. Also, big AoE Frightened is OP as it prevents multiple enemies from using offensive Abilities on you (see: Risen Armsman, Risen Mages, Warlock Scrivers, Naga Maradeur, etc.). Soul Ignition: a huge range poor man's Disintegration that can be spammed more freely when many ranged enemies with low Fortitude annoys us from the back Borrowed Instinct: I sincerely believe that a -8Int-8Per debuff that stacks with any affliction and gives you +20 Accuracy and +20 to all Defenses is the best spell in the game. Feel free to think otherwise. Righteous Soul: now now, being immune to Poison Nagas (SSS), Insect Plague, Toxic Strike and many others with one single ability, who wouldn't want that. Practiced Healer: combined with Dawnstar Blessing and Footprints of Aku Taha, gives us a modest x2.5 multiplier to all our healings. Not bad, eh. A must. Virtuous Triumph: getting some more Zeal back on kill, although rarely and unreliably, is always good. Disintegration: Best. Single. Target. Nuke. Handle with care and try not to kill with it, as it destroys unique equipment. Had to reload many times some boss fights when I realised that I "accidentally" crit-ed them with it, thus destroying their drops. THE EQUIPMENT To be continued... https://goo.gl/Eq12FG (soon) 1
diamondsforever Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Thank you for posting this. Several of us have been trying to find a paladin/X that does just this, but you already knew that 1
Haplok Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 NO FLAMES OF DEVOTION, WTF? It's way more then 10% damage, it's 20% multiplicative bonus (so it'll also magnify damage from soulwhip). But I can see you may prefer to simply spam SA instead. I find the ability selection a bit weird. Secret Horrors comes awfully late. Soul Ignition would be kinda weak on a Soulblade, I think. No Mental Binding? Amplified Wave? The latter is expensive, but its the best aoe option a Cipher has... and arguably more useful for a SoulBlade then Disintegrate, as a single-target he can just SA. Plus you're missing an ability slot at level 7.
Boeroer Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) Speaking of FoD: did you know that FoD (like any other dmg dealing ability) gets +5% base damage per additional Power Level? You can only see it in the combat log (look at your dmg roll which exceeds the base damage after some PLs). Since it's PL 1 it scales very well at higher (power) levels. That (maybe combined with with Eternal Devotion which will drop the PL gain a bit though) is a great way to spend 1 Zeal in my opinion. THe dmg bonuses and the dual multiplicative boost (PL + lash) work together nicely. Also because lashes generate focus. Alternating between FoD and Soul Annihilation is kind of... good? Especially when using Magran's Favour + Sun and Moon - but also with WotEP. And it works with Ring of Focused Flames so that you'll have an ACC bonus of +20. It also does +20% burning lash, not 10%. 10% is the "lingering" effect of Eternal Devotion. I don't think FoD is overrated. But it's not mandatory, sure. In a party if wouldn't want to miss it - it's very handy for BoW, too. But when going solo it might indeed be better to spend your Zeal on Greater Lay on Hands or something like that. It's always good to see if somebody comes up with something "different" that works well. Edit: Soul Ignition also works with Ring of Focused Flames by the way. Edited October 10, 2018 by Boeroer 1 Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods
whimper Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) Yeah, I’ve come to a similar conclusion about FoD in solo runs. In the toughest fights I never use it because I need to save Zeal for LoH. And the fights in which I do use it are fights that I know I’m going to win already, and am just using them to speed things up. So FoD doesn’t really add much, on solo, regarding what fights I can handle. I think there’s a difference between solo and group play here. With group play you generally have other potential sources of healing, and a less dire outcome if one particular character goes down (cuz you have four more!). In those cases the FoD vs LoH tradeoff looks a lot better. Edited October 10, 2018 by whimper
Lampros Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Thank you for posting this. Several of us have been trying to find a paladin/X that does just this, but you already knew that This isn't really a melee combatant though. And I cannot imagine a Paladin without FoD.
diamondsforever Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Thank you for posting this. Several of us have been trying to find a paladin/X that does just this, but you already knew that This isn't really a melee combatant though. And I cannot imagine a Paladin without FoD. Well it is really. Your using your melee attacks to rapidly build up focus. I gave this a go yesterday (as I mentioned) and I was able to generate hundreds of focus rapidly. Right up to the point where I got stun locked and it was game over. My build isn’t half as optimized as this one so I find this to be a great starting point. As for FOD I found it more useful during battles with multiple ads. But agains Ukaizo, I used almost all my zeal for sworn rival and LOH 1
Lampros Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Thank you for posting this. Several of us have been trying to find a paladin/X that does just this, but you already knew that This isn't really a melee combatant though. And I cannot imagine a Paladin without FoD. Well it is really. Your using your melee attacks to rapidly build up focus. I gave this a go yesterday (as I mentioned) and I was able to generate hundreds of focus rapidly. Right up to the point where I got stun locked and it was game over. My build isn’t half as optimized as this one so I find this to be a great starting point. As for FOD I found it more useful during battles with multiple ads. But agains Ukaizo, I used almost all my zeal for sworn rival and LOH Yes, we are slightly looking for different characters: You prefer solo do-it-all guys; and I want primarily a DPS character who will still be survivable in a DPS setting. P.S. I tested the Shepherd extensively last night. I was horribly disappointed. Hunter's Claw (and its upgrade) only gives you +1 Accuracy per use; so you have to use it 20 times (that is, like for 5 battles of spamming it) to max it. And then it becomes useless if you rest or face a different enemy. Frankly I'd prefer PoE 1's system of having a permanent designation of creatures you are strong against. Also, the character did **** damage even with Hunter's Claw maxed. Ranger and Paladin do not combine for a lot of damage boosts.
diamondsforever Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Thank you for posting this. Several of us have been trying to find a paladin/X that does just this, but you already knew that This isn't really a melee combatant though. And I cannot imagine a Paladin without FoD.Well it is really. Your using your melee attacks to rapidly build up focus. I gave this a go yesterday (as I mentioned) and I was able to generate hundreds of focus rapidly. Right up to the point where I got stun locked and it was game over. My build isn’t half as optimized as this one so I find this to be a great starting point. As for FOD I found it more useful during battles with multiple ads. But agains Ukaizo, I used almost all my zeal for sworn rival and LOH Yes, we are slightly looking for different characters: You prefer solo do-it-all guys; and I want primarily a DPS character who will still be survivable in a DPS setting. P.S. I tested the Shepherd extensively last night. I was horribly disappointed. Hunter's Claw (and its upgrade) only gives you +1 Accuracy per use; so you have to use it 20 times (that is, like for 5 battles of spamming it) to max it. And then it becomes useless if you rest or face a different enemy. Frankly I'd prefer PoE 1's system of having a permanent designation of creatures you are strong against. Also, the character did **** damage even with Hunter's Claw maxed. Ranger and Paladin do not combine for a lot of damage boosts. True. I think the overall idea is the same though. DPS and survivable. Low micro, low cost upkeep. That’s why I tested cipher yesterday and was surprised at the overall build and damage output. RE. Shepard, I’m not overly surprised about that. I read the the claw took a ton of stacking to be useful. Which is a shame because I think it would be better used like sworn enemy. Make one ad and get the benifit agains all ads of that race. 1
diamondsforever Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 Hey OP, what are your skill focuses with this build? or did I miss that?
dunehunter Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 Aren’t trickster a better candidate than paladin? U a lot more deflection from spamming Escape, and u can do more damage with Soul Annihilation because rogue has way more damage bonus than pally.
diamondsforever Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 Aren’t trickster a better candidate than paladin? U a lot more deflection from spamming Escape, and u can do more damage with Soul Annihilation because rogue has way more damage bonus than pally. I think the goal here is tanky solo play with sustainability. Trickster I find, it reasouce heavy for solo play.
diamondsforever Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) So I was playing around with the abilities of this build. Is there a reason that you do backwards in your skill choices? Example: level 18 you take Fractured Violation Roughly, wouldn't this work out better (I haven't fully gone through and re organized mind you)? Level 1 (GP): Lay on Hands (SB): Whispers of Treason Level 2 (GP): Deep Faith Level 3 (GP) / (SB): Iron Will Level 4 (GP): Zealous Aura (SB): Draining Whip Level 5 (GP): Inspired Defenses Level 6 (GP): Retribution Level 7 (GP): Sworn Rival (SB): Hammering Thoughts Level 8 (GP) / (SB): Two Weapon Style Level 9 (GP): Greater Lay on Hands Level 10 (GP): Exalted Endurance (SB): Body Attunement Level 11 (SB): Secret Horrors Level 12 (SB): Soul Ignition Level 13 (GP): Righteous Soul (SB): Borrowed Instinct Level 14 (SB): Ringleader Level 15 (GP): Practiced Healer Level 16 (GP): Virtuous Triumph (SB): Disintegration Level 17 (SB): The Empty Soul Level 18 (GP) / (SB): Improved Critical Level 19 (GP): Stoic Steel (SB): Echoing Horror Level 20 (DV): Devine Purpose Edited October 11, 2018 by diamondsforever
brasilgringo Posted December 11, 2018 Posted December 11, 2018 When back in 2017 I heard of multiclassing in the then upcoming PoE2, I wanted to combine my two favorite classes in the game: Cipher and Paladin. I thought the synergy between the two would be monstrous: Faith and Conviction and the defensive arsenal of the Paladin would make a squishy Cipher more than capable to dish out all the damage possible without dying. At the same time, Cipher has renewable resources, so, yay, great for solo. You never wanna run out of fire. In my first playthrough, I didn't go solo, and because of the tooltip warning against multiclass, I opted for pure Cipher. By the time I did multiple playthroughs to know the game better, Paladin got nerfed to death: - increased cost to Greater Lay on Hands - 100% to 25% Virtous Triumph proc chance - FoD nerfs left and right In light of these changes, I deemed any Paladin tank build inferior to any Fighter multiclass, having Unbending become better compared to GLoH, and not having "infinite resources" by killing enemies anymore. Boy, was I wrong. Cipher, that to many is considered one of the most boring and underpowered classes - and the rationale behind their opinion escapes me, having this class access to all types of affliction and a whopping 300+ raw damage nuke - got nerfed, most notably with: - Body Attunement from -4/+4 to -2/+2 armor - Borrowed Instinct (literally single best spell in the game) from 30s base duration to 20s. - Time Parasite from -50% to -25% (note: this is one of the few way that allowed to achieve ~0s recovery at lvl 20) I recently decided to prove myself wrong, and tried an Inquisitor. I've always been a great fan of the Ascended, which for many (party, mostly) builds is insanely good, thanks to its ability to get max focus and then spam the best single target nuke in the game on literally everyone. Alas, Ascend got nerfed, too (from 20s to 12s base duration). What was I left with? Base class, meh. Beguiler, definitely not good for non-Rogue multiclass. And Soulblade. The latter can be surprisingly good when combined with Whispers of the Endless Path, as one can Soul Strike on multiple targets, recover focus at the same time by hitting the secondary ones, thus never actually being starved of focus. The counterattack on top, allows you to keep focus high. I would like to say that this is the best weapon for this build, but what I discovered by going through all the SSS challenges, is that it is not. The best weapon for a character with all the afflictions, with high defenses but excelling in none of them (compared to Tricksters, Skaen Priest, Wizards) is versatility. This build will not point out (except for a few slots) a fixed equipment. What we aim to achieve is the best Armor against every encounter. Therefore, we will focus on boosting Armor. Similarly, the other side of the coin is having good Penetration alongside with it. We plan to have a versatile arsenal. And since we decided that versatility is the name of the game, we will save all the unnecessary ability points from the Paladin tree, and invest them to get the Cipher spells that really matter. THE RACE Pale Elf. +4 Freeze and Fire armor means one thing: versatility. THE BACKGROUND Anything, but White that Wends for RP, and bonus to Perception never hurts. THE STATS Might 15 Constitution 7 Dexterity 15 Perception 20 (race+region) Intellect 18 Resolve 3 Justification: as Victor Creed / aka Raven Darkholme/ aka diamondsforever always says: we are more than justified to dump RES, as we can make up for it with Berath's Blessing, Pet bonuses, and No-Rest approaches. For more on this, please do consult the thread in this very same forum (https://goo.gl/oda1EU). High PER is because nobody wants to waste focus to see Cipher Powers miss. Good MIG 'cause none of the Paladin passives/actives increases our spell damage (which is mostly DoT). Good DEX 'cause some Powers take long to cast. CON on 7 is what I think every build should have: if you have access to heals, CON is unimportant; if you have ridiculously high Defenses, CON is unimportant. This class is not the best at neither of the two approches, but doing decently in both turns out to be more than enough. The "7" score specifically is because with Berath Blessing and Effigy's Sacrifice - Durance it allows to hit the 10 CON sweet spot, and being bonus/penalties multiplicative, one would rather not have any malus to HP, in case some ridiculous burst occurs (there is a Druid in SSS that hits for 200+ with 30 Penetration with Sunlance. We definitely don't want to go from full HP to 0 against such enemies). High INT, cause it's a caster/buffer/debuffer. THE SUBCLASSES Goldpact and Soulblade. THE ABILITIES 1 Whispers of Treason + SoulStrike ; Lay on Hands + Gilded Enmity 2 Deep Faith 3 Iron Will 4 Draining Whip ; Paladin Auras 5 Inspired Defenses 6 Retribution 7 Hammering Thoughts 8 Sworn Rival 9 Greater Lay on Hands 10 Body Attunement ; Exalted Endurance 11 Secret Horrors 12 Soul Ignition 13 Borrowed Instinct ; Righteous Soul 14 Ringleader 15 Practiced Healer 16 Disintegration ; Virtuous Triumph 17 The Empty Soul 18 Bear's Fortitude 19 Fractured Volition ; Stoic Steel 20 Weapon Style: choose what you like the most. This build benefits from all three. Justification: "NO FLAMES OF DEVOTION, WTF", yes. Ability is overrated. When you get a +25% damage from Retribution and a +20% from Draining Whip, spending a point of Zeal for a +10% lash rather than on a usage of Lay on Hands is very, very unefficient. Also, that would mean losing 2 Abilities from level 7 up. Now, I sincerely believe that everything above on PL 3+ is better than Eternal Devotion. If you think otherwise and can point out why in the comments, I'd happily discuss. Now: why not going for Sworn Rival instead? A +20% damage that returns the point whenever you kill. More on that here: https://goo.gl/j4dnPG Body Attunement and Exalted Endurance on the same level is one of those things I always regret, as the two bonuses don't stack. But reducing enemy Armor is too good to pass on. Secret Horrors for the Frightened Status, Fractured Volition for the Weakened. It's better to have two Tier2 Afflictions than a mix of Tier1/Tier2 from picking just one of them. Also, big AoE Frightened is OP as it prevents multiple enemies from using offensive Abilities on you (see: Risen Armsman, Risen Mages, Warlock Scrivers, Naga Maradeur, etc.). Soul Ignition: a huge range poor man's Disintegration that can be spammed more freely when many ranged enemies with low Fortitude annoys us from the back Borrowed Instinct: I sincerely believe that a -8Int-8Per debuff that stacks with any affliction and gives you +20 Accuracy and +20 to all Defenses is the best spell in the game. Feel free to think otherwise. Righteous Soul: now now, being immune to Poison Nagas (SSS), Insect Plague, Toxic Strike and many others with one single ability, who wouldn't want that. Practiced Healer: combined with Dawnstar Blessing and Footprints of Aku Taha, gives us a modest x2.5 multiplier to all our healings. Not bad, eh. A must. Virtuous Triumph: getting some more Zeal back on kill, although rarely and unreliably, is always good. Disintegration: Best. Single. Target. Nuke. Handle with care and try not to kill with it, as it destroys unique equipment. Had to reload many times some boss fights when I realised that I "accidentally" crit-ed them with it, thus destroying their drops. THE EQUIPMENT To be continued... https://goo.gl/Eq12FG (soon) so is this going to be continued? is this really a viable solo build for POTD?
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