A small early "review" of Deadfire after finally getting into the game

[xzar_monty]

With the second DLC out, I decided the game is probably stable enough to start playing. So I've been adventuring for a while now, and here are some of my thoughts.

 

1) I'm really surprised that so much was changed in the game system. Like, spells, abilities, enchanting possibilities and so on. What's more, it seems to me that essentially every change is for the worse. I'm not saying that anything has been ruined, but I really am surprised. I didn't think there was that much wrong with the system in PoE.

 

2) The "empower" button essentially looks like a built-in cheat. I really wonder why it's there. I'm not using it.

 

3) I've been playing CRPGs since Ultima IV in the 1980s, and this is by the far the easiest I've ever seen. None of my characters has even been knocked out yet, it just hasn't happened once. I grant that I do have some experience with these games, but still: it's too easy. Especially given that you get all your ability and spell resources back right after each battle so you never have to manage them. I'm almost at level 6 now. Will things get more difficult?

 

4) The main storyline doesn't seem engaging. I just don't care. A while ago I was sort of summoned to listen to a discussion the gods were having, and I thought it was almost silly. Especially given that one of the gods essentially said, "Let's all take a deep breath now". I would argue (very strongly even) that one of the defining characteristics of a medieval fantasy god is that he/she/it never, ever uses 20th century babble.

 

5) No real bugs that I have seen so far. I did notice that immediately upon entering a certain cave, Eder discovered a trap at the other end of it (and I do mean far away, my characters weren't anywhere near it, it's a big cave). That was definitely a bug, but not a big one.

 

6) I'm not sure if the relationship system (or whatever it's called) does much of anything, but maybe it'll trigger into action later on.

 

7) Some of the quest writing is complex, varied and good. For instance, you get to know about the pirate that attacked you right at the start of the game, and there are at least two major pathways to solving that quest, and within one of them (the one I chose) there are at least two different approaches. That was good, I was genuinely impressed.

 

8 ) The naval setting is good. The music is good, despite being a bit generic. The graphics are really beautiful at best.

 

I currently have no opinion on naval combat (have engaged in it just once) or the fact that the size of the group has been reduced from six to five.

 

I'm enjoying this quite a bit at the moment, mostly because of #8. The main drawback is #3, followed by #4. Stuff like #2 can simply be ignored.

Edited October 2, 2018 by xzar_monty

[InsaneCommander]

Will things get more difficult?

 

In what difficult are you playing? If it is not PotD, then raise it. Otherwise it won't get more difficult unless you seek higher level enemies or get to the DLCs.

 

4) The main storyline doesn't seem engaging. I just don't care. A while ago I was sort of summoned to listen to a discussion the gods were having, and I thought it was almost silly. Especially given that one of the gods essentially said, "Let's all take a deep breath now". I would argue (very strongly even) that one of the defining characteristics of a medieval fantasy god is that he/she/it never, ever uses 20th century babble.

 

My character is a pirate and basically ignored the main mission for over an year in game time. There is a lot to explore, just find a rp excuse and go for it.

 

 

I simply pretended that after Eothas did his thing with the Adra Pillar in the digsite, he disappeared and my character became a pirate while waiting for more news (that maybe would never come.

 

 

5) No real bugs that I have seen so far. I did notice that immediately upon entering a certain cave, Eder discovered a trap at the other end of it (and I do mean far away, my characters weren't anywhere near it, it's a big cave). That was definitely a bug, but not a big one.

 

I found only two serious bugs. They prevented two quests from clearing in the journal. But it's nothing serious.

 

 

I'm enjoying this quite a bit at the moment, mostly because of #8. The main drawback is #3, followed by #4. Stuff like #2 can simply be ignored.

 

The difficult and the story are considered better in DLCs by many people. If you enjoy the main game, I strongly suggest you get the DLCs. If you prefer, check some reviews or Let's Plays to make sure you will like them.

[Tigranes]

Yes, more or less. While specific battles sometimes remain difficult (especially if you avoid using the crazy magic awesome win button), any sense of strategic resource management is nearly completely removed. Systemic changes from POE1 generally tend to be lateral or backwards, rather than a clear step up.

 

Despite all that, I find it a fairly fun romp. I just treat it as a great-looking murderhobo simulator where I set my own targets and challenges.

[daven]

Yeah I agree with most of what you have said.

 

Empower isn't a very interesting game mechanic, but like you say it's easily ignorable. I forget it's there most of the time.

 

But overall the game is good and a bit of fun, but not the step up BG to BG2 I think a lot of people were hoping for.

[Haplok]

Many changes are debatable. I also don't particularly like the removal of vancian casting or the interesting Health/Endurance dynamic. But Enchanting changes (each item actually has unique and alternative enchantment paths) are a clear improvement IMO.

 

Also the encounter design is pretty good in general.

 

Like others have said, play on Path of the Damned upscaled. That should offer solid challenge, at least in the early levels and later in the DLCs.

[Purudaya]

If you're finding the game to easy, I'd recommend PoTD with upward scaling enabled. There's still some late game content that needs difficulty tuning, but the difference between Classic and PotD is significant. Also, the DLCs have some genuinely hard encounters on PotD - enough to (possibly) warrant use of that empower button

 

Edit: Ninja'd...yesterday.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Purudaya

[xzar_monty]

Yes, more or less. While specific battles sometimes remain difficult (especially if you avoid using the crazy magic awesome win button), any sense of strategic resource management is nearly completely removed. Systemic changes from POE1 generally tend to be lateral or backwards, rather than a clear step up.

 

Despite all that, I find it a fairly fun romp. I just treat it as a great-looking murderhobo simulator where I set my own targets and challenges.

 

A fairly fun romp indeed! That was well put, that. That's precisely what it looks like at the moment. Many essential features of the genre have somehow disappeared but at least so far, the result does look fun. I will also have to give credit for the fact that the change of scenery works really well. I mean, I haven't missed dungeon crawling for a second.

 

@Haplok: Thanks for your comment on enchanting. My judgement was quite possibly premature -- I hadn't fully recognized that all items have unique enchantment paths.

 

As for the difficulty: thank you for the comments, I will crank it up.

 

Incidentally, does anyone else feel that tactical combat is often non-existent because once a battle begins, a significant proportion of the enemy (sometimes all of them) rushes straight into you? I think I have seen quite a lot of this, so far.

 

There are some enemies with ranged weapons (good) and even some monsters that prefer to attack only/mostly from range (wurms; good), but by and large battles are characterized by a group of enemies rushing into me as soon as battle begins.

 

Another nice point, by the way: some PoE1 maps had a senseless number of story-wise meaningless enemies you had to battle, which was annoying, since you got so little XP and precious little loot, too. This problem seems to have been solved, which I think is great.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

OP, there is also an easy to install difficulty mod called 'Deadly Deadfire' at Nexus Mods.

 

It won't work with God Challanges, but if you're finding the game too easy, than that's your cup of tea. 

 

I am not going to recommend God Challenges, because some combinations may end up being quite annoying xD. 

[house2fly]

I don't think it's a problem that everything including health is per-encounter, I think the problem comes from trying to have their cake and eat it too by still including permadeath. Just get rid of permadeath and make every battle difficult enough to potentially result in a party wipe

Edited October 2, 2018 by house2fly

[Verde]

PoE2 is a very good game, even great, but like many before, and many after, it hasn't reached BG2 heights.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Since Ultima IV!!!  Me too but Ultima V, could never get into IV because the graphics were super 8-bit CGA (if I remember correctly).  I say this often but I don't hold BG1 or BG2 as a standard but the mid-Ultima games as a standard.  In that sense POE2 definitely gets the open world correct even if it looks a little JRPG

 

PoTD is pretty good for battles, and if you don't min-max and power build you definitely need strategy out there to survive, at least through the first half of the game or so, as I keep playing the first part over as they release new updates - I think I will finish it this time thankfully!!!  I use an experience mod myself to keep my level down and keep the game set to only scale upwards - Deadly Deadfire is good - but takes another level of care in some sections which you might like as it pushes up on the enemies armor defenses and hit points.

 

If you want a different kind of difficult, get into the God Challanges - I found Berath's mixed with Galawain's adds a level of fun, and then if you really want to push it throw on top of these Abydon, the one where your weapons degrade in combat - I actually was having a lot of fun with these three together.  Skaen's is fun too.

 

EDIT:  Also I found it fun to try to play around with the reputation UI a lot in my interactions with NPCs - like right now I am trying really hard to not have any "honesty" lol.

Edited October 2, 2018 by aaronghowell

[xzar_monty]

Since Ultima IV!!!  Me too but Ultima V, could never get into IV because the graphics were super 8-bit CGA (if I remember correctly).  I say this often but I don't hold BG1 or BG2 as a standard but the mid-Ultima games as a standard.  In that sense POE2 definitely gets the open world correct even if it looks a little JRPG

 

We used to play Ultima IV on a Commodore 64. You know, 38911 bytes free (memory) and all that. Four floppy discs, loading times almost as long as PoE or Deadfire. ;-)

 

Incidentally, one additional thing that I've noticed in this game: boy do I gain experience levels fast. So, by the current look of things, either I'm going to reach level cap early on, or the game is a lot shorter than I would expect.

[InsaneCommander]

Since Ultima IV!!!  Me too but Ultima V, could never get into IV because the graphics were super 8-bit CGA (if I remember correctly).  I say this often but I don't hold BG1 or BG2 as a standard but the mid-Ultima games as a standard.  In that sense POE2 definitely gets the open world correct even if it looks a little JRPG

 

We used to play Ultima IV on a Commodore 64. You know, 38911 bytes free (memory) and all that. Four floppy discs, loading times almost as long as PoE or Deadfire. ;-)

 

Incidentally, one additional thing that I've noticed in this game: boy do I gain experience levels fast. So, by the current look of things, either I'm going to reach level cap early on, or the game is a lot shorter than I would expect.

 

You'll reach level cap early. Unless you avoid most side quests and exploration.

[topologista]

it's a renaissance fantasy game though 

[gloomseeker]

PoE2 is a very good game, even great, but like many before, and many after, it hasn't reached BG2 heights.

 

In all fairness BG2 is great because it (mostly) adhered to the familiar pen and paper AD&D 2E ruleset and the familiar Forgotten Realms setting which harks back to simpler times. 

 

I've always felt BG2 was more linear and more focused on powergaming and metagaming than BG1. 

 

There is also some missed opportunities when it comes to NPCs (why no Valygar romance for female characters?) and although I can relate to people who say that BG2 was (and is still) a great game I'm not 100% convinced that it's impossible for a game to be as great.

 

I'm waiting for Deadfire to be complete before making a final judgement on that matter (BG2 without Throne of Bhaal was certainly lacking -no HLAs, no Wild Mages; it was a bit like playing POE1 without White March).

[xzar_monty]

 

PoE2 is a very good game, even great, but like many before, and many after, it hasn't reached BG2 heights.

 

I'm waiting for Deadfire to be complete before making a final judgement on that matter (BG2 without Throne of Bhaal was certainly lacking -no HLAs, no Wild Mages; it was a bit like playing POE1 without White March).

 

 

Ha, opinions again. In my view, BG2 is clearly a lot better than PoE1, but at the same time it has to be said that the White March is a lot better than Throne of Bhaal. ToB was so railroaded and one-dimensional that it's almost a shame to the franchise, whereas the White March is a good addition to the original game.

 

For me, simply playing BG2 and ignoring ToB is more satisfying than playing through both, as ToB really adds nothing, even if the story is taken to its conclusion.

[daven]

The best part of ToB is the party member it adds and his sexy voice.

[Yosharian]

I'm sorry, am I missing something?  You're complaining about the difficulty while not playing on the highest difficulty level?

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Does majority of people "abuse" the Empowerment button? Or do people usually use it to restore power to continue using abilities instead of auto-attacking (either from mistakes or prolonged fights) or empower an ability that a foe is weak against to gain an upper hand or turn the tide?

 

I know you said it feels like cheating but it serves it's purpose mechanically. Those who use it aggressively by resting a lot to steam roll encounters over and over seems like cheating but I don't think the Devs planned it for that. Players can exploit it but players who choose not to, don't have to.

Edited October 3, 2018 by XEternalXDreamsX

[house2fly]

They did plan for that I believe; I remember a question on Josh Sawyer's tumblr where he basically said "you can only empower once per fight, so to exploit empower someone would have to rest immediately to refill it once it's depleted, and resting after 3 or 4 fights seems fair enough"

[InsaneCommander]

I usually forget about empower, but in long fights or when I want to use an AoE spell against multiple enemies (so satisfying! ) I remember it exists.

[Tigranes]

Does majority of people "abuse" the Empowerment button? Or do people usually use it to restore power to continue using abilities instead of auto-attacking (either from mistakes or prolonged fights) or empower an ability that a foe is weak against to gain an upper hand or turn the tide?

 

I know you said it feels like cheating but it serves it's purpose mechanically. Those who use it aggressively by resting a lot to steam roll encounters over and over seems like cheating but I don't think the Devs planned it for that. Players can exploit it but players who choose not to, don't have to.

 

I'm glad that Empower is easy to ignore and not use. That's about the only thing it has going for it. My criticism isn't along the lines of "oh players will abuse this". My criticism is that, especially at release, it was gamebreakingly overpowered (+10 Power levels), and that the combat system was much better off without it.

 

I would not mind as much a gentler 'get out of jail' function for players with an interesting mechanism - e.g. a Wild Mage-like unpredictable effect. And one that was not a giant, eye-of-Sauron-glows-at-thee button.

 

They did plan for that I believe; I remember a question on Josh Sawyer's tumblr where he basically said "you can only empower once per fight, so to exploit empower someone would have to rest immediately to refill it once it's depleted, and resting after 3 or 4 fights seems fair enough"

 

That doesn't make sense, though. You can only use it once per fight, so it doesn't matter whether you rest every fight or you rest every 5 fights. Especially at higher levels, you're probably rarely running out of Empower & you always can use it whenever you're in any significant fight.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Tigranes

[cokane]

I don't think it's a problem that everything including health is per-encounter, I think the problem comes from trying to have their cake and eat it too by still including permadeath. Just get rid of permadeath and make every battle difficult enough to potentially result in a party wipe

 

Make every battle the same level of difficulty. In an open-world, potentially 100+ hour RPG? That is not a recipe for fun.

 

Unfortunately it is the corner the game has backed itself into, due to the underlying mechanics.

[house2fly]

That depends on what "the same level of difficulty" would be. There are a lot of different ways with these mechanics for something to be difficult- damage outout, high defenses, high hit points, immunities, afflictions, etc.

[xzar_monty]

it's a renaissance fantasy game though 

 

Nitpicker! You are right, though. Fair point.