Ideal dual gun build?

[Moritsuna]

What upgrades are best for the hand mortars? I think the bouncing bullet is good but unsure about the blind, don't want to blind my party. 

[Boeroer]

Chainshot and in case of Monk or Barb the one which does more damage at short range.

[Faytte]

Question: I'm doing a SOLO POTD playthrough right now as a Paladin/Street Fighter. Do you think Solo Monk is stronger before HoF? It certainly seems to have some yummy advantages. I was relying on the hand mortars making my flames of devotion and rogue abilities into AoE',s but there is certainly no crazy aoe stuff I see in your build. Against normal groups of enemies in POTD though, what do you think is stronger? The Rogues straight up high damage modifiers from street fighter, death strike etc, or the monk shenanigans? 

[Boeroer]

Until Heart of Fury or Whispers of the Wind I think Holy Slayer is better. The combo of additive dmg modifiers from Rogue and the multiplicative lashes from the Paladin are great. Also that you can apply Rogue's DoTs like Arterial/Gouging Strike in an AoE is very good as well as Deep Wounds. So all in all great class for dual mortars.

 

Monk will be better once he gets Whispers of the Wind - but that comes rather late. But Stunning Surge is also really powerful because you usually crit one of your several enemies and thus pay no Mortification. You can spam it nearly endlessly as long as there are several enemies left. Also Dance of Death and Turning Wheel (crazy big AoE and burning lash) combined with the shocking lash of Lightning Strikes and the MIG bonus is pretty nice as well. Good think about SC monks is that they can get the Long Pain as single-target backup rel. early which scales very well.

 

If there wasn't Whispers of the Wind I'd say Monk/Ranger would also be great because of Driving Flight adding yet another jump to the mortars.

[Faytte]

Thank you. That helps a lot. Since Whisper and Heart of Fury as so late game, I guess I'll stick with holy slayer for now. 

So you think going DOTS (aterial/gouging) is better than pierce the bell + its upgrade for ranged? 

Do you think Monk/Ranger is stronger than Holy Slayer in the early/mid damage? Or only when it gets driving flight?

[Boeroer]

I think Holy Slayer is still stronger because of the Streetfighter/Powderburns cheese.

 

Arterial Strike in an AoE is def. better than Pierce the Bell. It's only 1 Guile, it has bonus PEN and damage and it will apply it's very strong raw DoT effect on all enemies in the AoE. It also gets more Power Level bonus since it's of lower level. Every additional Power Level adds 5% multiplicative base dmg to abilities. The lower they start the more they profit from your Power Level.

Higher base dmg combined with Sneak Attack and Deathblows is very powerful.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

Thank you. That helps a lot. Since Whisper and Heart of Fury as so late game, I guess I'll stick with holy slayer for now. 

 

So you think going DOTS (aterial/gouging) is better than pierce the bell + its upgrade for ranged? 

Do you think Monk/Ranger is stronger than Holy Slayer in the early/mid damage? Or only when it gets driving flight?

 

Crippling/Arterial is your bread & butter. Cheap (1 Guile), extra Pen, good damage bonus. If it's for party play, I'm not sure it's even worth upgrading Crippling (or leave it at lower Power Level and save the ability point).

I've had very little use from Pierce the Bell. It's twice as expensive, does less damage and the higher penetration only works on the primary target. It may be occasionally worth using against a boss or some golem... but frankly I'd skip it entirely. I always had better options.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Haplok

[Faytte]

So in Solo POTD you fire with Artelial then just run away? Seems cheesy, but I guess its also really effective. 

[Boeroer]

If you use mortars with decent AoE size you don't need to run that much. Fire at a group from stealth and then escape to another spot - for exple behind your frontline guys. Most of the enemies will want to reach you and bleed like crazy.

 

When going solo kiting/running away is a good way to use this ability to its full potential though.

[RKHeliplex]

Oh man - I'm itching for a monk dual gun build from Boeroer! 

[Lampros]

If you use mortars with decent AoE size you don't need to run that much. Fire at a group from stealth and then escape to another spot - for exple behind your frontline guys. Most of the enemies will want to reach you and bleed like crazy.

 

When going solo kiting/running away is a good way to use this ability to its full potential though.

 

Are Serafens two blunderbusses the only useful blunderbusses?

[Boeroer]

No. Kitchen Stove and Xefa's Empirical Explication are also very nice. But mostly against single targets.

 

Serafen's hand mortars are the only AoE ones.

 

Blunderbusses allow for some cheese because they use multiple projectiles which leads to multiple hits (or hit rolls). All stuff that works with x on hit or y on dmg (like Combusting Wounds, The Shield Cracks or Confounding Blind) are great in combination with a blunderbuss. Or two blunderbusses. Or even more through switching.

 

But when it comes to the appliance of DoTs the mortars are king because of the AoE. They don't have multiple projectiles though.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

No. Kitchen Stove and Xefa's Empirical Explication are also very nice. But mostly against single targets.

 

Serafen's hand mortars are the only AoE ones.

 

Blunderbusses allow for some cheese because they use multiple projectiles which leads to multiple hits (or hit rolls). All stuff that works with x on hit or y on dmg (like Combusting Wounds, The Shield Cracks or Confounding Blind) are great in combination with a blunderbuss. Or two blunderbusses. Or even more through switching.

 

But when it comes to the appliance of DoTs the mortars are king because of the AoE. They don't have multiple projectiles though.

 

I've been testing, and the Stove has a bounce that seems to hit a ton of targets with Driving Flight. For instance, one salvo hit 8 times for about 160 on the Vampyre Crypt Vampyres. But I guess Hand Mortars would be better if you can get to 30-plus Intelligence with Monk skills?

[Lampros]

P.S. I think this will be my main crowd control/AoE build. I was able to get so many afflictions on so many folks!

[Boeroer]

As I said before: a good example is Arterial Strike with mortars: you can lure enemies to a spot with Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights and then hit them all for 1 Guile from stealth. They will run towards you, bleeding like crazy while you Espace behind your buddies. Stuff like that makes mortars excellent.

 

Kitchen Stove has no passive bounce afaik, only through Wild Shot which is 1/rest. Driving Flight will usually add one bounce in a 120-degree cone (I guess - don't know if 120° is correct). But iirc Driving Flight adds no bounce if Wild Shot is active. Didn't test though, may be outdated. Fire in the Hole also can be upgraded with one bounce (that works with Driving Flight - last time I checked with the Deep Leap build).

[Kaylon]

Driving Flight hits in a 180° cone behind the target and within a 8m radius (not sure about the radius).

[Lampros]

As I said before: a good example is Arterial Strike with mortars: you can lure enemies to a spot with Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights and then hit them all for 1 Guile from stealth. They will run towards you, bleeding like crazy while you Espace behind your buddies. Stuff like that makes mortars excellent.

 

Kitchen Stove has no passive bounce afaik, only through Wild Shot which is 1/rest. Driving Flight will usually add one bounce in a 120-degree cone (I guess - don't know if 120° is correct). But iirc Driving Flight adds no bounce if Wild Shot is active. Didn't test though, may be outdated. Fire in the Hole also can be upgraded with one bounce (that works with Driving Flight - last time I checked with the Deep Leap build).

 

You are right; no bounce. Darn. I guess I have to complete Serafen's quest then...

[Boeroer]

Driving Flight hits in a 180° cone behind the target and within a 8m radius (not sure about the radius).

Thanks for the info. Was it maybe 120° in PoE - or why did this vague idea of a number pop up in my head?

[RKHeliplex]

For a SC monk, I'm presuming statline with high pen? Trying to suss out the optimal stats.

Is it worth taking both single weapon and dual weapon focus?

Edited October 21, 2018 by RKHeliplex

[Boeroer]

I guess you mean PER? High PEN comes from Thunderous Blows and enchantments.

I dumped CON and RES and took highish DEX, PER and MIG (the classic dps stats) and maxed INT. I use Duality:INT, Aloth's Armor, two Rings of Overseeing and Loki as pet. This gives me an enormous AoE size (the radius more than doubled). This is important to get that multihit-train rolling. A wizard with Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights, Combusting Wounds, Miamsma and Pull of Eora is a perfect addition.

I only took Two Weapon Style and no melee abilities. The most important stuff is Enduring Dance, Lightning Strikes, Turning Wheel, Stunning Surge and Flagellant's Path before getting Resonant Touch and Whispers of the Wind which admittedly come quite late. But Stunning Surge and Flagellant's Path are already worth it. FPath does a Full Attack and skips reloading entirely (you can spam it as long as you have Mortification. Stunning Surge lets you regain Mortification easily if you can hit several enemies at once.

My backup weapons are the Long Pain. As soon as the number of enemies got depleted to a small amount I will summon it (it's a fast cast with not too harsh recovery). For a single class ranged Monk I think there's nothing better when it comes to single targets. Scales awesomely well with Power Level to better numbers than even mythic equipment.

Monks have ok health and defenses so the dropped CON and RES don't hurt as much as with squishier classes. Still squishy of course, but manageable. I used an amulet of health in the early game which works very well until its flat bonus gets too insignificant compared to your base health pool. Ring of the Marksman is nice of course. And since I don't like consumables but I do like Avenging Storm - so Heaven's Cacophony was a must. If you like scrolls you can skip that and take the hat that gives you +5 ranged ACC and 10% reload bonus (just forgot the name - weird).

My current playthrough with this comes to an end. It has been great fun and I guess I will post a detailed build description soon.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Boeroer

[RKHeliplex]

Damn that sounds ultra fun! I fell in love with Whispers of the Wind a short while back and love that this build barrels towards it.

[brasilgringo]

 If you like scrolls you can skip that and take the hat that gives you +5 ranged ACC and 10% reload bonus (just forgot the name - weird).

Acina's Tricorn?

[Lampros]

Upon testing a lot of "dual gun" builds, I now frankly think you are already being inefficient by using pistols, as there is no getting around the fact that so many enemies have high pierce resists. I know there are several pistols with lashes in them, but the percentages are low, and it won't make up for the loss of damage due to high resists/immunities. Now dual blunderbusses are a different story, as you do have two very good ones with dual damage type.

[Waski]

Upon testing a lot of "dual gun" builds, I now frankly think you are already being inefficient by using pistols, as there is no getting around the fact that so many enemies have high pierce resists. I know there are several pistols with lashes in them, but the percentages are low, and it won't make up for the loss of damage due to high resists/immunities. Now dual blunderbusses are a different story, as you do have two very good ones with dual damage type.

There is one that deals raw damage.

[Lampros]

 

Upon testing a lot of "dual gun" builds, I now frankly think you are already being inefficient by using pistols, as there is no getting around the fact that so many enemies have high pierce resists. I know there are several pistols with lashes in them, but the percentages are low, and it won't make up for the loss of damage due to high resists/immunities. Now dual blunderbusses are a different story, as you do have two very good ones with dual damage type.

There is one that deals raw damage.

 

 

I know, but it is going to net you a severe loss in damage perhaps except in fights where you are going to underpenetrate anyways.