How do I, um, penetrate?

[Lampros]

I have been reading that getting penetration on PotD is a nightmare, because the mobs there have such high armor. In fact, someone said that you need at least 15 and in some cases 18 for the tougher mobs (!!!)? So how do I it? In my current "ease-in" first run, I see that my main can only do 12/12 as a dual wielder by default with 2 legendary weapons on both hands as Devoted. Penetrating Strike gets me 15, and the sword modal will get me another 2 or 3 (at the cost of deflection). But what about other classes? Devoted and Penetrating Strikes together net me 5, and that's 5 per class. From the classes I have at the moment, I am not seeing skills that give me such high penetration boosts. How do they get penetration?

[Haplok]

Well, monks and berserkers get Tenacious self-buff for +2. Priests can cast it on everyone (doesn't stack with weapon modals though).

Rogues have cheap Crippling Strike and more expensive Strike the Bell  for +2 (with +5 for ranged Pierce the Bell). 

Ciphers have +1 passive abilities.

Casters have elemental bonus penetration abilities (includes Paladins and their Flame of Devotion fire attack (+potentially corrode for Bleak Walkers).

Food can give +2.

Marksmen Ring gives +1 vs enemies outside melee range.

 

You don't need such extreme Pen very often. DoTs ignore Armor. So do Raw attacks. You can use Animancer's Energy Blade or Eccea's Arcane Blaster.

Also you can stack so many damage ticks on something like Combusting Wounds with dual blunderbuss attacks, as not to worry about Armor much.

[Kaylon]

You switch weapons for a better penetration/damage type or you lower their armor using various debuffs.

[1TTFFSSE]

I usually run with a few rests/ playthrough, have everyone eat hot razor skewers and forget about it. Hot Razor Skewers = +2 weapon pen, +1 power level.

 

My ranged builds usually have marksman's ring another +1 constant pen. For melee I prefer weapons with extra pen bonuses like Tarn's Respite (saber) and Rust's.

 

Yeah for my dps builds I always mix classes like devoted, Berserker (+2 pen Frenzy), Cipher (+1 pen on weapons and spells), Monk (Tenacious Blows +2 pen).

 

Finally, I run a chanter /x support in the party and Take "The Shield Cracks" and set it on high priority for heavily armored targets. Expose Vulnerabilities from Wiz works too but I like the Chanter debuff more because it sticks better and is easier to recast.  

[Kaylon]

You don't need such extreme Pen very often. DoTs ignore Armor. So do Raw attacks. You can use Animancer's Energy Blade or Eccea's Arcane Blaster.

Also you can stack so many damage ticks on something like Combusting Wounds with dual blunderbuss attacks, as not to worry about Armor much.

Elemental dots don't ignore armor at all. Combusting Wounds, Brand Enemy, Dragon Trashed, etc. are completely useless against enemies with high burn resistance.

[-dib-]

I have been reading that getting penetration on PotD is a nightmare, because the mobs there have such high armor. In fact, someone said that you need at least 15 and in some cases 18 for the tougher mobs (!!!)? So how do I it? In my current "ease-in" first run, I see that my main can only do 12/12 as a dual wielder by default with 2 legendary weapons on both hands as Devoted. Penetrating Strike gets me 15, and the sword modal will get me another 2 or 3 (at the cost of deflection). But what about other classes? Devoted and Penetrating Strikes together net me 5, and that's 5 per class. From the classes I have at the moment, I am not seeing skills that give me such high penetration boosts. How do they get penetration?

I'm only 5″, so I can't penetrate...

[Lampros]

Well, monks and berserkers get Tenacious self-buff for +2. Priests can cast it on everyone (doesn't stack with weapon modals though).

Rogues have cheap Crippling Strike and more expensive Strike the Bell  for +2 (with +5 for ranged Pierce the Bell). 

Ciphers have +1 passive abilities.

Casters have elemental bonus penetration abilities (includes Paladins and their Flame of Devotion fire attack (+potentially corrode for Bleak Walkers).

Food can give +2.

Marksmen Ring gives +1 vs enemies outside melee range.

 

You don't need such extreme Pen very often. DoTs ignore Armor. So do Raw attacks. You can use Animancer's Energy Blade or Eccea's Arcane Blaster.

Also you can stack so many damage ticks on something like Combusting Wounds with dual blunderbuss attacks, as not to worry about Armor much.

 

Thanks for the list!

 

Going through the skills for the characters I am using now, I just did notice that the Priest buff includes a group Penetration increase. And I have been casting it all along - though I didn't realize that it does not stack with weapon modals. Thanks for notifying me! I've been using both and wasting one of them then.

 

As for Monks and Barbarians, I guess I have to re-think my dislike of both for future PotD runs then. And I did not realize Crippling Strike also gives extra Penetration, though I've been using it the whole time. And I will have to seriously consider getting Strike the Bell as well.

 

So it looks like most of the DPS classes do have some extra Penetration. But what about Rangers? I am particularly interested, since I want to try a Paladin/Ranger multi-class as a main next to take advantage of the most recent patch changes to the Ranger.

 

And I will definitely go with dual Blunderbusses on someone next, too!

 

You switch weapons for a better penetration/damage type or you lower their armor using various debuffs.

 

But even then even most legendary weapons do not give more than 12 or so though. But I will definitely have to learn more about various debuffs.

 

Speaking of which, what are the main armor debuffs then?

 

 

I usually run with a few rests/ playthrough, have everyone eat hot razor skewers and forget about it. Hot Razor Skewers = +2 weapon pen, +1 power level.

 

My ranged builds usually have marksman's ring another +1 constant pen. For melee I prefer weapons with extra pen bonuses like Tarn's Respite (saber) and Rust's.

 

Yeah for my dps builds I always mix classes like devoted, Berserker (+2 pen Frenzy), Cipher (+1 pen on weapons and spells), Monk (Tenacious Blows +2 pen).

 

Finally, I run a chanter /x support in the party and Take "The Shield Cracks" and set it on high priority for heavily armored targets. Expose Vulnerabilities from Wiz works too but I like the Chanter debuff more because it sticks better and is easier to recast.  

 

Ok, I will definitely have to make sure look for penetration foods now. I do have Tarn's Respite on Eder, but I am not sure I like sabers as a weapon all that much. I know very high damage, but I am too lazy to weapon switch when I run into slash immunes. In terms of Rust's Poignard: Does the extra penetration compensate for the low overall damage?

 

I will definitely run a Chanter now, too. Is your Chanter a pure Chanter or a multi-class? If multi, then what mix?

 

 

 

You don't need such extreme Pen very often. DoTs ignore Armor. So do Raw attacks. You can use Animancer's Energy Blade or Eccea's Arcane Blaster.

Also you can stack so many damage ticks on something like Combusting Wounds with dual blunderbuss attacks, as not to worry about Armor much.

Elemental dots don't ignore armor at all. Combusting Wounds, Brand Enemy, Dragon Trashed, etc. are completely useless against enemies with high burn resistance.

 

 

Good to know. Another reason not to use Dragon Thrashed any more.

[Haplok]

 

You don't need such extreme Pen very often. DoTs ignore Armor. So do Raw attacks. You can use Animancer's Energy Blade or Eccea's Arcane Blaster.

Also you can stack so many damage ticks on something like Combusting Wounds with dual blunderbuss attacks, as not to worry about Armor much.

Elemental dots don't ignore armor at all. Combusting Wounds, Brand Enemy, Dragon Trashed, etc. are completely useless against enemies with high burn resistance.

 

 

No, they don't ignore. But if you stack enough damage ticks on Combusting Wounds, even high resistance will hardly help most enemies (unless they are outright immune).

[Lampros]

By the way, how much more armor do PotD enemies have relative to Veteran and Classic?

 

Is it 1 per difficulty - or something more drastic?

[Boeroer]

Adra Aminat has 13 AR, my Combusting Wounds only has 10 PEN. Combusting Wounds makes short work of Animat.

Adra Animat still has 13 AR. My Brand Enemy only has 11.5 PEN. Instead of 6.1 burn damage per tick it deals 3 until the Animat is dead. 

 

Both not completely useless even against high AR foes due to their special mechanics (the first increases per appliance, the second is endless).

 

They deal less damage than against foes with lower DR of course.

 

Anyways - if you can't penetrate then raw damage is your best option. Stuff like Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike etc. which are not connected to weapon dmg can be really great against such enemies. Also Plague of Insects etc.

[Lampros]

Adra Aminat has 13 AR, my Combusting Wounds only has 10 PEN. Combusting Wounds makes short work of Animat.

Adra Animat still has 13 AR. My Brand Enemy only has 11.5 PEN. Instead of 6.1 burn damage per tick it deals 3 until the Animat is dead. 

 

Both not completely useless even against high AR foes due to their special mechanics (the first increases per appliance, the second is endless).

 

They deal less damage than against foes with lower DR of course.

 

Anyways - if you can't penetrate then raw damage is your best option. Stuff like Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike etc. which are not connected to weapon dmg can be really great against such enemies. Also Plague of Insects etc.

 

Damn, Rogues have such high utility in every game.

 

And Boerer, while you are here: Are Paladin/Ranger melees (Aragorn) viable now after the patch as a DPS class? I don't want the pet, so it will be Ghostheart.

[Metaturtle]

There is also the path of crits since it gives +50% PEN, but of course that path isn't too reliable in PotD

[Lampros]

Adra Aminat has 13 AR, my Combusting Wounds only has 10 PEN. Combusting Wounds makes short work of Animat.

Adra Animat still has 13 AR. My Brand Enemy only has 11.5 PEN. Instead of 6.1 burn damage per tick it deals 3 until the Animat is dead. 

 

Both not completely useless even against high AR foes due to their special mechanics (the first increases per appliance, the second is endless).

 

They deal less damage than against foes with lower DR of course.

 

Anyways - if you can't penetrate then raw damage is your best option. Stuff like Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike etc. which are not connected to weapon dmg can be really great against such enemies. Also Plague of Insects etc.

 

What about bombs/grenades? Are they useful in PotD at all - given that they have 7-8 or lower Penetration?

[baldurs_gate_2]

What i don't understand is: Why does the modal from sabres, that nets you +2 pen, not work with the +pen potion? You can reach max 13 pen with sabres, only devoted can reach more. I don't even know, if tenacious from zerker / monk stacks with the potion.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Oh, yeah!

 

I will be taking a screenshot of that topic thread. Appologies for the trolling, but it totally made my day.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Ok... sorry... to OP:

 

There is a small variety of foods and consumables that you can check for additional penetration bonuses. It needs to be said that you can only stack one active and passive variety. So for instance your devoted already has a passive +2 pen, so he can check some other type of bonus instead of going another passive armour pen. 

 

Check the enemies' deffences--it also show their armours, try to target an armour type that they are weaker to. OR try to target a deffence type that they are weaker to--for example some enemies have much lower reflex than deflection and that way you can do some damage with critical strikes, which increase your penetration. 

 

Some unique weapons can stack penetration--read all of their possible effects and choose something that fits you. 

 

There is an unique plate that reduces armour.

 

There is a small variety of spells that reduce armour. You can reduce the specific defense that these spells target--for instance Fortitude and Will, with weapon modals like Clubs and Morning Stars(hairy hard flails--since we're talking about penetration). 

 

Speaking of modals, there is a Mace modal that reduces armour. 

 

Increasing power levels of skills and spells naturally increases their penetration, as well. 

 

Check your available skills to see if some of them come with a penetration bonus. Maybe respect your characters if you find none.

 

Check for party buffs or self buffs that increase penetration. 

 

Flanking a target decreases their armour by one, so always do that if you can. There are effects that put your target into flanked mode--like Blinding them. 

 

A pure Cypher, Fighter and Chanter have some rather easy skills that can deal with high armour values. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Hulk'O'Saurus

[Boeroer]

 

Adra Aminat has 13 AR, my Combusting Wounds only has 10 PEN. Combusting Wounds makes short work of Animat.

Adra Animat still has 13 AR. My Brand Enemy only has 11.5 PEN. Instead of 6.1 burn damage per tick it deals 3 until the Animat is dead. 

 

Both not completely useless even against high AR foes due to their special mechanics (the first increases per appliance, the second is endless).

 

They deal less damage than against foes with lower DR of course.

 

Anyways - if you can't penetrate then raw damage is your best option. Stuff like Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike etc. which are not connected to weapon dmg can be really great against such enemies. Also Plague of Insects etc.

 

Damn, Rogues have such high utility in every game.

 

And Boerer, while you are here: Are Paladin/Ranger melees (Aragorn) viable now after the patch as a DPS class? I don't want the pet, so it will be Ghostheart.

 

Weren't they viable before?

 

Lots of Full Attacks with very high accuracy sound viable to me. Bonus tip: FoD is an ability that has the keyword "Fire", so everything that boosts fire abilites also works with FoD. THis includes the Ring of Focused Flame (+10 ACC on top), Magran's Favor (Battle Axe, +2 to fire Power Level) and Sun and Moon (Flail, +2 to fire Power Level). +4 Power Level is a huge boost to the base damage of FoD. Combined with Scion of Flame you will do great FoD attacks with very high accuracy (crits which lead to even higher PEN) and even Spirit of Decay adds +1 PEN if you take Bleak Walker.   

 

@bombs & grenades: no idea, I never use them (except Sparkcrackers). I hardly use any consumables at all (besides drugs with Nalpasca and kith meat food with a Corpse Eater). 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

 

 

Adra Aminat has 13 AR, my Combusting Wounds only has 10 PEN. Combusting Wounds makes short work of Animat.

Adra Animat still has 13 AR. My Brand Enemy only has 11.5 PEN. Instead of 6.1 burn damage per tick it deals 3 until the Animat is dead. 

 

Both not completely useless even against high AR foes due to their special mechanics (the first increases per appliance, the second is endless).

 

They deal less damage than against foes with lower DR of course.

 

Anyways - if you can't penetrate then raw damage is your best option. Stuff like Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike etc. which are not connected to weapon dmg can be really great against such enemies. Also Plague of Insects etc.

 

Damn, Rogues have such high utility in every game.

 

And Boerer, while you are here: Are Paladin/Ranger melees (Aragorn) viable now after the patch as a DPS class? I don't want the pet, so it will be Ghostheart.

 

Weren't they viable before?

 

Lots of Full Attacks with very high accuracy sound viable to me. Bonus tip: FoD is an ability that has the keyword "Fire", so everything that boosts fire abilites also works with FoD. THis includes the Ring of Focused Flame (+10 ACC on top), Magran's Favor (Battle Axe, +2 to fire Power Level) and Sun and Moon (Flail, +2 to fire Power Level). +4 Power Level is a huge boost to the base damage of FoD. Combined with Scion of Flame you will do great FoD attacks with very high accuracy (crits which lead to even higher PEN) and even Spirit of Decay adds +1 PEN if you take Bleak Walker.   

 

@bombs & grenades: no idea, I never use them (except Sparkcrackers). I hardly use any consumables at all (besides drugs with Nalpasca and kith meat food with a Corpse Eater). 

 

 

I thought they were basically ranged specialists and never thought of using them as melee!

 

Thanks for the fire booster tip. By the way, what does "power level" mean when I see them in gear? Does it mean that fire attacks will be boosted passively without me manually empowering those attacks? I have no idea how to use empowerment in combat. I tried as the Wiki describes, but I think I failed.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Empower is a one per combat mechanic that either recharges your resources if you cast it on the selected character--a character can only self-empower, or empower a skill so that it will make it being cast as though it were 5 levels higher, which will increase that skill's power level. 

 

Power levels of skills are derived from your class' level, so that multiclassed characters have lower power levels of skills. There are other ways of increasing power levels, such as Magran's Favour(already mentioned) which will make all Fire skills more effective. Power levels generally increase everything concerning the skill--it's Accuracy, Duration, Penetration, Damage, number of missiles, ect. Naturally, some skills won't increase some of their statistics with power levels.

[Lampros]

Empower is a one per combat mechanic that either recharges your resources if you cast it on the selected character--a character can only self-empower, or empower a skill so that it will make it being cast as though it were 5 levels higher, which will increase that skill's power level. 

 

Power levels of skills are derived from your class' level, so that multiclassed characters have lower power levels of skills. There are other ways of increasing power levels, such as Magran's Favour(already mentioned) which will make all Fire skills more effective. Power levels generally increase everything concerning the skill--it's Accuracy, Duration, Penetration, Damage, number of missiles, ect. Naturally, some skills won't increase some of their statistics with power levels.

 

But does Power Levels on items automatically or passively power up your attacks? Or do I have to manually do it myself?

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Yeah, Power Levels are passive. There is a Potion of Ascention that provides general +2 Power Levels and it stays on for the whole fight. That one affects all skills. I think only the Monastic Unarmed Training is affected as far as generic attacks are concerned, but I may be wrong. 

[Lampros]

Yeah, Power Levels are passive. There is a Potion of Ascention that provides general +2 Power Levels and it stays on for the whole fight. That one affects all skills. I think only the Monastic Unarmed Training is affected as far as generic attacks are concerned, but I may be wrong. 

 

Awesome; thanks!

[Boeroer]

Yes. Power Level usually only boosts abilities and not auto-attacks. Two exceptions are Monastic Unarmed Training and Transcendent Suffering: those fists scale with Power Level as well (and not class level).

[1TTFFSSE]

Playing new patch, trying to figure out how the heck a level 14 shadowdancer with superior weapons has biggest hit: 450 damage listed in the character tab. No way that's possible unless sneak attack got duped or something or it is some weird calculation bug on multihit aoe attack into one. 

[Boeroer]

I manage to get 300+ on a Holy Slayer (Assassin/Bleak Walker with Dragon's Dowry) from stealth. Maybe I could exceed that with a Scout (Assassin/Sharpshooter) using Takedown Combo and Devastating Blow)? But 450 on a single non-spell attack roll? Phew...