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If you insist on testing that theory you could lose your ability to freely post on these boards.

 

Fourth time is the charm?

Afaik the first three times he switched accounts without being forced. Maybe forgot the password. Three times. ;)

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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...

Black Jacket is also a fighter that is not boring to play. With three attacks I can bring an enemy to -10 deflection, -25 fortitude and -25 will + reflex. Bosses tremble before me...

 

...

 

A forth weapon set of Hatcher and Mace can further debuff -10 Accuracy / -1AR. I feel that your build would is incomplete without them  :biggrin:

Rod or one of the AoE Blunderbuss + Sundering Blow  is also tempting.

 

 

 

About the main topic, I feel that a good martial class needs several good abilities and a couple of gamechanging ones to worth it.

I think the gamechanging one for Fighter  is unbending. With the right stats it makes your character impervious to damages for a duration.

I think it is very complicated to argue that Fighters don't worth multiclassing because of this or that another class is "better". In my opinion, it is far more about personal taste and role in party.

 

Even ranger has its perk and doesn't really need love as long as we are speaking multiclass ones.

Pet fits certain playstyle, Driving Flight is basically a total damage multiplier and easy access to Interrupt and "Dispel" could be very convenient. Remember Keldorn ?

 

But I think the OP is at partially right about Single Class Fighters.

 

Even with 2.1 buff, their Tier VIII and IX have some good stuff (especially after 2.1) but they are not trully more cost-efficient than lower ones. This is true for basically all Martial classes (Monks having two ressources are a bit less a problem.). Maybe Unbending + Take the Hit could be efficient.

Single Classes desperately need more Ressources. I really think this is not only Fighter's problem.

 

Something like +2 at creation and +1 with Prestige would do the trick. Or maybe Single Class could have more consistent tools (such as Toughened Fury) to regenerate their ressources as their defining Trademark.

Edited by Elric Galad
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Get over it princess.

 

If people are going to have a cry whenever they are called an idiot then that is just a reflection of there insecurities.

 

Go down to the local hardware store and buy a bag of cement and harden the Fck up

:facepalm:
I know right? Hardware store here I come!

 

On topic: Fighters Unbending is so strong that I can grab fighter to multi with only so I can get unbending. Anything other then that from the fighter tree is pure bonus. The stances for example are quite nice. I'm not particularly exited about fighters active offensive abilities in terms of effectiveness vs cost, but thats what I'll pick the other class for.

Edited by Dorftek
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I agree that unbending is main reason to get fighter. It makes you *really* hard to kill. If you have high const you can even go around whithout any armor.

 

 

Tangentially I wold like ranger much more for multiclass if whirling strikes were a lvl 7 ability instead of lvl 8

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There are powerful classes...

Good classes that could use a tweak...

And crappy classes... like fighters.

 

I’ve played a lot of multi and pure classes, but the more hours I log, the clearer it becomes that fighters are horribly lackluster. They have nothing special, no wow factor, and certainly wouldn’t make my top five list for most powerful classes.

 

So what is the fighter supposed to be? I know, people immediately say fighters are supposed to be boring, but why? Shouldn’t all classes be fun and interesting to play. With that said, to start a conversation, my suggestions are:

 

1) Passive Parry (Tier 5 power- some percent that scales with level) - fighters should be top dogs in defensive melee - still boring, but would help differentiate and help with power ranking

2) Heart of a Warrior (Tier 7 power- +HP Buff, like a spell, but give the fighter a quick cast 30-40 HP increase) - 1 resource

3) Slay (Tier 8 power- +100 point melee attack- if a caster can drop 100+ damage in an AOE, fighters should be masters of Single Target Damage) - 1 resource

4) Soul of a Champion (Tier 8 power- +10 Str, +10 Per +5 Con, high level, long duration buff) - 1 resource

5) Legend of the Slayer (Tier 9 power- wielded weapon adds +10 Raw per 5 secs for 30 seconds) - 1 resource

 

These are basic ideas to start the conversation, but fighters really need something that compares to the “wow” powers of other classes.

Fighters were Tier 1, as mob stance attacked every enemy around you with a full attack, when you downed one previously. Unbeding had 50% health gain instead of 25%.

 

B4 they buff the fighter, they should rather buff the druid / ranger trash tier.

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There are powerful classes...

Good classes that could use a tweak...

And crappy classes... like fighters.

 

I’ve played a lot of multi and pure classes, but the more hours I log, the clearer it becomes that fighters are horribly lackluster. They have nothing special, no wow factor, and certainly wouldn’t make my top five list for most powerful classes.

 

So what is the fighter supposed to be? I know, people immediately say fighters are supposed to be boring, but why? Shouldn’t all classes be fun and interesting to play. With that said, to start a conversation, my suggestions are:

 

1) Passive Parry (Tier 5 power- some percent that scales with level) - fighters should be top dogs in defensive melee - still boring, but would help differentiate and help with power ranking

2) Heart of a Warrior (Tier 7 power- +HP Buff, like a spell, but give the fighter a quick cast 30-40 HP increase) - 1 resource

3) Slay (Tier 8 power- +100 point melee attack- if a caster can drop 100+ damage in an AOE, fighters should be masters of Single Target Damage) - 1 resource

4) Soul of a Champion (Tier 8 power- +10 Str, +10 Per +5 Con, high level, long duration buff) - 1 resource

5) Legend of the Slayer (Tier 9 power- wielded weapon adds +10 Raw per 5 secs for 30 seconds) - 1 resource

 

These are basic ideas to start the conversation, but fighters really need something that compares to the “wow” powers of other classes.

Fighters were Tier 1, as mob stance attacked every enemy around you with a full attack, when you downed one previously. Unbeding had 50% health gain instead of 25%.

 

B4 they buff the fighter, they should rather buff the druid / ranger trash tier.

 

Neither of those classes is bad. Druid is very strong as a primary caster, and ranger, for all that its options prior to PL 7 or so are pretty uninteresting, is perfectly serviceable on account of account of its giant pile of accuracy buffs and pet.

 

Ranger in particular could be more dynamic, and druid is sort of unfocused in the context of multiclassing (it made a lot more sense in PoE1 when it occupied a weird, unique sort of gishy-squishy role), but both are serviceable.

If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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There are powerful classes...

Good classes that could use a tweak...

And crappy classes... like fighters.

 

I’ve played a lot of multi and pure classes, but the more hours I log, the clearer it becomes that fighters are horribly lackluster. They have nothing special, no wow factor, and certainly wouldn’t make my top five list for most powerful classes.

 

So what is the fighter supposed to be? I know, people immediately say fighters are supposed to be boring, but why? Shouldn’t all classes be fun and interesting to play. With that said, to start a conversation, my suggestions are:

 

1) Passive Parry (Tier 5 power- some percent that scales with level) - fighters should be top dogs in defensive melee - still boring, but would help differentiate and help with power ranking

2) Heart of a Warrior (Tier 7 power- +HP Buff, like a spell, but give the fighter a quick cast 30-40 HP increase) - 1 resource

3) Slay (Tier 8 power- +100 point melee attack- if a caster can drop 100+ damage in an AOE, fighters should be masters of Single Target Damage) - 1 resource

4) Soul of a Champion (Tier 8 power- +10 Str, +10 Per +5 Con, high level, long duration buff) - 1 resource

5) Legend of the Slayer (Tier 9 power- wielded weapon adds +10 Raw per 5 secs for 30 seconds) - 1 resource

 

These are basic ideas to start the conversation, but fighters really need something that compares to the “wow” powers of other classes.

Fighters were Tier 1, as mob stance attacked every enemy around you with a full attack, when you downed one previously. Unbeding had 50% health gain instead of 25%.

 

B4 they buff the fighter, they should rather buff the druid / ranger trash tier.

 

Neither of those classes is bad. Druid is very strong as a primary caster, and ranger, for all that its options prior to PL 7 or so are pretty uninteresting, is perfectly serviceable on account of account of its giant pile of accuracy buffs and pet.

 

Ranger in particular could be more dynamic, and druid is sort of unfocused in the context of multiclassing (it made a lot more sense in PoE1 when it occupied a weird, unique sort of gishy-squishy role), but both are serviceable.

 

I forgot to mention, for me a class is only good, if you can solo the game with it and do every fight on potd upscaled.

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Fighter is a solid class. One of my favourites in POE2. It's a good all-around class with no weaknesses that multiclass quite good with almost every other class. It requires no micromanagement and has good survivability and decent dps. Single class is also strong because medium to late game skills are very good. It's a simple class to play.

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I think all classes currently are quite balanced apart from:

 

 

1. Druids

 

Because they are in direct competition with wizards in terms of allocating a party slot. It is very hard to justify placing a druid in your party when you can have a wizard instead. Even if you already have one wizard in your party and you want another caster you would be better off with two wizards.  Druids need to be buffed to be more in line with wizards so that they can compete with them.

 

2. Priests

 

The vast majority of there friendly buffs are very mediocre and dont do much at all. These buffs have long cast times aswell. There are stupid restrictions put on some of there spells for example cirlce of protection has a 10 sec duration. Alot of these early level buffs have very weak effects like giving +5 to a single stat and the higher level priest buffs may give bonuses to perhaps two stats. Healing spells require maxed might to be even noticable. Priests feel very restricted with the new per rest  system changes made from the first game where they only get to cast  2 spells per level per encounter  which was a stupid change because all priests do now is cast the exact same spells  over and over every encounter. They have less variety. Priests arent able to swap griomores like wizards can and also currently dont have any way of being able to cast more spells per level like wizards can with the griomore of vaporous wizardry.

 

3.  Ciphers

 

Ciphers just arent quite there yet. IMO some of there powers need tweaking. Defensive Mindweb is currently the most stand out "stupid use"  and " balancing gone wrong " power in the entire game. It use to be tied with sacred immolation but SI got buffed in the latest patch 

 

 

Fighters are a solid very powerful and fun to play class. 

 

 

I use to think Rangers where under powered but after playing one on my last play-through i have changed my mind. Concussive tranquilizer is arguably the most powerful active ability in the game and driving flight vastly increases ranged dps with high caliber ranged weapons like the red hand. When Obsidian nerfed figurines to have charges they also buffed the Ghost heart ranger sub class. Ghost heart ranger is probably a more powerful summoner then chanter now aswell if you spend points buffing the companion

Edited by Teclis23
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Druid's Maelstorm is not worse than Wizard's spells. Additionally, Lifegiver is a beast of a support. I do think that Tekehu's subclass is better offensively than what Watcher can have, because he does have one advantage over the Wizard: you can put him on auto-pilot. As a Wizard, you have to target your spells to not blow up your team, but Tekehu doesn't care about that. Druid multi (other than maybe Shifter) feels lacking, until you realize that having a Paladin/Lifegiver support character means that your party never dies.

 

Priest of Berath is a fantastic nuker late-game, who also brings AoE buffing potential, which is something a Wizard doesn't have. While multiclassing with a martial class gives you a warrior with very good damage output and massive survivability. A Skaen/Helwalker Contemplative is very strong, and if we ever get Woedica without mod.. will be even better.

 

Ciphers are the only class in the game that can restore other's resources, which is a massive boon. Ascendant Cipher is a great nuker, especially if you go single-class. You have very strong AoE and single-target damage options, and they're all Foe only! The moment you unlock Time Parasite, nothing will stand in your way. As a multi, I love playing a CC oriented Trickster/Beguiler.

 

This is something I've said in one of the other threads some time ago: every class is strong if you know how to build and play it. Some multiclass combinations are indeed bad (mostly due to nerfs), but the classes themselves are all fine.

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I believe Fighter is fine multi, since everything you want/need is below T7.

A solo class Fighter, compared to a Wizard, has nothing to offer T8 or T9.

 

Wilting Wind, Piercing Sigil, Great Soul, Wall Colors, Freezing Rake, Meteor Shower, Cloak of Death, Mins Missiles, Llengs Reflection, Arcane Cleanse, Corrosive Skin... all are solid.

 

For T8 Fighters we have...Clean Sweep? (Not much of an upgrade) Inspired Defense? (is good, but should come earlier compared to other class buffs, which would only benefit multi more).

 

Then for T9 the choices are baffling to me: Inspired Strike (have you seen the Monk’s version?), Take the Hit (situational and not impactful in most encounters), Sundering Blow (this should be a streamlined passive at this level, but still not close to the Monk’s attack), and Unrelenting (skills that you need to die to use are normally not that efficient, especially for a class that is tough to take down... this would be better on a Barb or something a bit more glass cannon).

 

Anyway, my point is, the gold standard of fun and destruction, Wizard, has amazing and fun powers for solo T8/T9, while fighters have substandard and limited options.

Edited by heldred
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Druid's Maelstorm is not worse than Wizard's spells.

 

What about Tornado?

I don't see people mentioning it often. In PoE1 it was crap, sure, but Obsidian instead of downgrading it to lvl 4 actually upgraded it to lvl 9. I expect it to be greatly buffed.

 

So, does Tornado live up to reputation of lvl9 spells?

Vancian =/= per rest.

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If it worls anything like El Nary it should be very good (especially with Empower). But it seems to only attack once in an AoE - not projectiles or jumps which usually work great with Power Level.

 

Speaking of Druid, lvl 9 spells and Power Level:

 

Did anybody check Pollen Patch (keywords Rejuvenation + Plant) with the Spine of Thicket Green? As shifted Lifegiver you get +7 Power Level on Rejuvenation and the staff can give +2 to Rejuvenation and +2 to Plant (and +2 to Restoration as well which malde me thing if a superhealer Liefegiver/Priest would be fun where the Priest part takes over once the spiritshift ends). That would be +11 Power Level! +12 with a Nature Godlike (which would fit so well). +12 Power Level... that is 3 more than the normal max Power Level. Cast it with Empower - what will happen? ;) 

 

The staff can also be enchanted to +3 to Beast and +3 to Plant. That alone could lead to a great Druid nuking/healing build. That and of course Deltro's stuff with Lord Darryn's Voulge. Druid get some nice gear.   

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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If it worls anything like El Nary it should be very good (especially with Empower). But it seems to only attack once in an AoE - not projectiles or jumps which usually work great with Power Level.

 

Speaking of Druid, lvl 9 spells and Power Level:

 

Did anybody check Pollen Patch (keywords Rejuvenation + Plant) with the Spine of Thicket Green? As shifted Lifegiver you get +7 Power Level on Rejuvenation and the staff can give +2 to Rejuvenation and +2 to Plant (and +2 to Restoration as well which malde me thing if a superhealer Liefegiver/Priest would be fun where the Priest part takes over once the spiritshift ends). That would be +11 Power Level! +12 with a Nature Godlike (which would fit so well). +12 Power Level... that is 3 more than the normal max Power Level. Cast it with Empower - what will happen? ;)

 

The staff can also be enchanted to +3 to Beast and +3 to Plant. That alone could lead to a great Druid nuking/healing build. That and of course Deltro's stuff with Lord Darryn's Voulge. Druid get some nice gear.   

How you plan to use staff with Shifted form, I think your weapon will be replaced ? 

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Solo PotD builds: The Glanfathan Soul Hunter (Neutral seer. Dominate and manipulate your enemies), Harbinger of Doom (Dark shaman. Burn and sacrifice, yourself and enemies for Skaen sake)

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ROFL... right. Brainfart.

 

Then it's only +6 before shifted and +7 while shifted and back to +3 after shifting.

Or... you can take Chanter and just set two chants on auto-cast ;D 

 

@heldred is completely right, Fighters L1 - L7 should has at least same power as Paladin, and L8 - L9 should be completely redone, same as Druids and now Barbarians (with latest DW, Lions sprint)

 

But I think all nerfs/buffs will be done only after latest DLC release, so there no point to discuss it now :D

Edited by mant2si

Solo PotD builds: The Glanfathan Soul Hunter (Neutral seer. Dominate and manipulate your enemies), Harbinger of Doom (Dark shaman. Burn and sacrifice, yourself and enemies for Skaen sake)

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Ranger's underwhelming to play, but the crazy accuracy stacking, great utility of concussive tranquilizer, and driving flight/twinned shot with the likes of The Red Hand or Frostseeker make them quite useful even as single-class. Especially since stunning shots (interrupt on crit), combined with the accuracy stacking of a proper ranger, means you'll likely interrupt on every attack.

 

As for the pet, I imagine that a multiclassed ranger probably won't put his talent points in companion abilities, but as a single-classed ranger cultivating the pet means eventually having an extra party member, except they can only auto-attack. And a well-executed Takedown Combo can pack quite a punch.

 

Fighters are somewhat underwhelming to play, perhaps, but their main role as tanks and battlefield controller is filled in pretty well. 2.1 already seems to boost their damage output somewhat, so I don't think they need much more. For damage dealers I'd rather see some work done to Rogues, as they mostly subsist on their passives now, strong as they may be.

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To keep on topic, it might be interesting to see which classes people think have the best T8/T9 choices.   As a starter template, it could be measured by Number of Options and Power.

 

Quick methodology:

Part 1: Somewhat objective: Class with highest sum of available T8 and T9 = 100% (normalized to 10 on 1 to 10 scale).  Every other class uses the highest total as the denominator to yield a rating.    

Part 2: This is subjective: 1-10 Power rankings.  These are my thoughts after three runs, with different patches, with 5-man POTD parties, to try as many combinations as possible. 

Part 3: Sum and rank

 

 

Rating of T8/T9s

---------------------------

Priest 10 8 = 18

Wiz 8 10 = 18

Chanter 6 8 = 14

Cipher  5 8 = 13

Monk 4 9 = 13

Druid  6 6 = 12

Ranger 4 8 = 12

Fighter 6 5 = 11

Barb  5 6 = 11

Paladin  5 6 = 11

Rogue 4 6 = 10

 

Now there are some intangibles that should be taken into consideration.  For example, the fact that anyone can cast Avenging Storm cheapens the hell out of a good, class defining skill for Druids.  This isn't as impactful for high-end Priest and Wizard scrolls, since they have many other unique, class defining spells that they can only cast.

 

After reflection of some data, my thesis has expanded and now I believe the following classes need help on T8 and T9 skills:

Rogue, Fighter, Barb, Druid on the critical list, with Paladin on the consideration list.

 

I look forward to seeing other members' thoughts.

Edited by heldred
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I like your Tier 8/9 rankings. I'd prob put Monk higher than Cipher but that's nitpicky.

 

I had to laugh at Rogues ranking because they are one of my favorite classes because they are so fun to multi. I see no reason to ever single them.

Edited by Verde
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