Swashbuckler VS Marauder?

[Haplok]

Even with the Voulge, Swash will probably do a lot more damage then Brute. Just won't spread aoe (which means other weapons are probably preferable).

Edited August 26, 2018 by Haplok

[baldurs_gate_2]

I tried the BoW dragon with a adventurer swashbuckler. He is a bit weaker than the main, but i used the same potions and items, except for voidward.

 

The biggest problem with the swash is, he does not stagger the dragon when he hits him, so he can cast llengrath's twice. Second problem is, when you go for streetfighter, you are much slower than a trickster / assassin, because you don't get flanked in that fight and you don't want to stay bloodied all the time.

[Theosupus]

Even with the Voulge, Swash will probably do a lot more damage then Brute. Just won't spread aoe (which means other weapons are probably preferable).

changing the weapon is out of the question. That is the base being built around.

 

I found the opposite in my testing. I found the brawler build more mobile/fun but took a while to kill everything. Brute and marauder did massive kills very fast. Swashbuckler did great (both trickster and streetfighter) but not as fast as the other tested builds.

 

I linked some vids in one of OPs other posts.

 

The brute cleared floor one of VTC solo within a signal duration of unbending. I have tested all this so I'm speaking from that position not supposition based on paper.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Theosupus

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

Even with the Voulge, Swash will probably do a lot more damage then Brute. Just won't spread aoe (which means other weapons are probably preferable).

changing the weapon is out of the question. That is the base being built around.

 

I found the opposite in my testing. I found the brawler build more mobile/fun but took a while to kill everything. Brute and marauder did massive kills very fast. Swashbuckler did great (both trickster and streetfighter) but not as fast as the other tested builds.

 

I linked some vids in one of OPs other posts.

 

The brute cleared floor one of VTC solo within a signal duration of unbending. I have tested all this so I'm speaking from that position not supposition based on paper.

 

 

I'm going to give Brute another try. The only issue is, I don't know how to console in a version of LDV that's been fully Soulbound, for the purposes of testing/comparison. 

 

Do you think I'm limiting myself by building around one particular weapon/synergy? I like to think I'm not - because isn't discovering how specific weapons/classes work together part of the fun? 

[Theosupus]

No you are chosing to build around a cool effect. Just like all the other theme builds. I really enjoyed all of them but when I ask myself, which out of each option felt the most brutal the top two were Marauder and Brute.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Theosupus

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

No you are chosing to build around a cool effect. Just like all the other theme builds. I really enjoyed all of them but when I ask myself, which out of each option felt the most brutal the top two were Marauder and Brute.

 

Alright. I'm going to play around with Brute a little more. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

Did some testing on Brute vs Marauder. Brute definitely didn't hit as hard as the Marauder, but in exchange I didn't feel like I had to babysit it as much - Unbending pretty much meant I was perpetually self-healing myself just by taking Frenzy's raw DoT. 

 

Marauder, meanwhile, hit really hard, and felt a lot faster. But then that's only through maintaining the Streetfighter bonus, which I can't do in every fight because there's not enough enemies to flank me. 

 

Both looked very cool, making use of LDV and the Boltcatchers. 

[Haplok]

 

Even with the Voulge, Swash will probably do a lot more damage then Brute. Just won't spread aoe (which means other weapons are probably preferable).

changing the weapon is out of the question. That is the base being built around.

 

I found the opposite in my testing. I found the brawler build more mobile/fun but took a while to kill everything. Brute and marauder did massive kills very fast. Swashbuckler did great (both trickster and streetfighter) but not as fast as the other tested builds.

 

I linked some vids in one of OPs other posts.

 

The brute cleared floor one of VTC solo within a signal duration of unbending. I have tested all this so I'm speaking from that position not supposition based on paper.

 

 

From my point of view, the trouble is that you're testing builds at level cap and taking full advantage of 1/rest effects (mainly Avenging Storm). That's nice for build theorycrafting, but IMVHO not so great for actual gameplay, which generally mainly consists of getting to level 20, not playing there. Also personally I don't want to rest after every (optionally every challenging) encounter. And IMO before the cap and discounting Avenging Storm, Swash will badly outperform the Brute. You don't always trigger Streetfighter bonus, but when it counts, you tend to do and things start to die fast.

And you always have your regular sneak, Persistent Distraction and Finishing/Devastating Blow. Nothing on the Barbarian's side really compares.

 

Marauder is another story, but he's squishy as hell, so even more gimmicky to use with stuff like Nemnok's Cloak or Cleric casting Barring the Death's Door with Salvation of Time.

 

One other thing. The Deltro's Cage Armor. Does it provide enough benefit to be worth the heavy armor Recovery malus - and resource loss from not using the DoC? Does Lord Darryn's Voulge Static Charge even benefit from that? If so, how much? It'd be good for stuff like Heaven's Cacophony Avenging Storm (seriously, I don't think they should have put such a powerful effect on an available early, repeatable use item, kinda devaluates the Druid - but hey, it's there to be used) or Mantle of 7 Bolts, but those are 1/rest.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Haplok

[Metaturtle]

 

 

Cyrus have you created a bunch of custom adventurers to test out your various build ideas?

 

Yeah, I have. The results from my most recent test were that the Marauder actually did pretty okay with Nemnok's Cloak and Savage Defiance for survivability, though I know that's just a stopgap (Nemnok's Cloak requires a rest after every combat, or at least every major combat). The Swashbuckler meanwhile could more or less be left to do his own thing because Unbending healed him up so much. This was without a party providing buffs and support, mind you. 

 

So in a party, Marauder would do fine. But then, of course, I made a thread about soloing versus playing in a party, and which provides the more rewarding experience, so I have to decide what I want to do there before I can really commit either way. I'll repeat my concern from that thread here. I'm worried that if I play with a party of companions/sidekicks or, even moreso, a custom party, it just annihilates all of the challenge. 

 

Ah party will definitly annihilate all of the challenge.

 

You should spawn the BoW ice dragon and fight him for real on potd upscaled solo. If you can not beat him with the right preperations on swashbuckler, he is not worth the time. You can beat him with a marauder, what i just have proven.

 

 

What's the string to spawn BoW dragon?  I can't for the life of me find the exact gamedata string to spawn her.

[brasilgringo]

 

 

Even with the Voulge, Swash will probably do a lot more damage then Brute. Just won't spread aoe (which means other weapons are probably preferable).

changing the weapon is out of the question. That is the base being built around.

 

I found the opposite in my testing. I found the brawler build more mobile/fun but took a while to kill everything. Brute and marauder did massive kills very fast. Swashbuckler did great (both trickster and streetfighter) but not as fast as the other tested builds.

 

I linked some vids in one of OPs other posts.

 

The brute cleared floor one of VTC solo within a signal duration of unbending. I have tested all this so I'm speaking from that position not supposition based on paper.

 

 

Does it provide enough benefit to be worth the heavy armor Recovery malus - a

I keep seeing people use "malus" for a negative effect / penalty ... is this a POE1 word that's carried over?  It's not common-use English afaik.

[Boeroer]

It's Latin and the opposite of "bonus". You can use it in English like you use "bonus". But afaik in English it's mainly used with financial stuff while in German you use it more broadly. Maybe that's why people use it more frequently here: there are some Germans among us that might not be aware that "malus" is not very common in English.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[Theosupus]

 

 

 

 

From my point of view, the trouble is that you're testing builds at level cap and taking full advantage of 1/rest effects (mainly Avenging Storm). That's nice for build theorycrafting, but IMVHO not so great for actual gameplay, which generally mainly consists of getting to level 20, not playing there. Also personally I don't want to rest after every (optionally every challenging) encounter. And IMO before the cap and discounting Avenging Storm, Swash will badly outperform the Brute. You don't always trigger Streetfighter bonus, but when it counts, you tend to do and things start to die fast.

And you always have your regular sneak, Persistent Distraction and Finishing/Devastating Blow. Nothing on the Barbarian's side really compares.

 

Marauder is another story, but he's squishy as hell, so even more gimmicky to use with stuff like Nemnok's Cloak or Cleric casting Barring the Death's Door with Salvation of Time.

 

One other thing. The Deltro's Cage Armor. Does it provide enough benefit to be worth the heavy armor Recovery malus - and resource loss from not using the DoC? Does Lord Darryn's Voulge Static Charge even benefit from that? If so, how much? It'd be good for stuff like Heaven's Cacophony Avenging Storm (seriously, I don't think they should have put such a powerful effect on an available early, repeatable use item, kinda devaluates the Druid - but hey, it's there to be used) or Mantle of 7 Bolts, but those are 1/rest.

 

-I agree that PD is powerful but Eder can provide the PD, so no need to double up on that.

-I also agree that having a set test with a set encounter with set gear and just changing classes and builds does not provide a complete picture for ever encounter where one might outperform another.

--But in order to provide a data set you need to provide controls. In this case: same levels, same enemies, same difficulty, same gear, just different builds.

 

-Something to keep in mind is this wasn't meant to be a MIN/max test anyways. It was a play-style test to see which build fit into OP's plan to make a Euron Greyjoy type character using the LDV.

--With the controls in place the order of speed of completion was: Marauder, Brute, Ravager, Brawler, Fanatic (No Immolation), Swashbuckler, Holy slayer 

 

Gear notes:

-AS is available at level 3-4.

-Deltro's Cage is available about the same time and conductive storm isn't very hard to get on it.

-With the brute you can use any armor due to armored grace+pet+intuitive strikes+frenzy (I.S. stopping confused).

-That said; I tested both armor choices.

-In the vid I posted I was wearing the DOC armor because I found the 4 resources provided much more DPS than extra few damage points from the electric attacks.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Theosupus

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

 

Even with the Voulge, Swash will probably do a lot more damage then Brute. Just won't spread aoe (which means other weapons are probably preferable).

changing the weapon is out of the question. That is the base being built around.

 

I found the opposite in my testing. I found the brawler build more mobile/fun but took a while to kill everything. Brute and marauder did massive kills very fast. Swashbuckler did great (both trickster and streetfighter) but not as fast as the other tested builds.

 

I linked some vids in one of OPs other posts.

 

The brute cleared floor one of VTC solo within a signal duration of unbending. I have tested all this so I'm speaking from that position not supposition based on paper.

 

 

From my point of view, the trouble is that you're testing builds at level cap and taking full advantage of 1/rest effects (mainly Avenging Storm). That's nice for build theorycrafting, but IMVHO not so great for actual gameplay, which generally mainly consists of getting to level 20, not playing there. Also personally I don't want to rest after every (optionally every challenging) encounter. And IMO before the cap and discounting Avenging Storm, Swash will badly outperform the Brute. You don't always trigger Streetfighter bonus, but when it counts, you tend to do and things start to die fast.

And you always have your regular sneak, Persistent Distraction and Finishing/Devastating Blow. Nothing on the Barbarian's side really compares.

 

Marauder is another story, but he's squishy as hell, so even more gimmicky to use with stuff like Nemnok's Cloak or Cleric casting Barring the Death's Door with Salvation of Time.

 

One other thing. The Deltro's Cage Armor. Does it provide enough benefit to be worth the heavy armor Recovery malus - and resource loss from not using the DoC? Does Lord Darryn's Voulge Static Charge even benefit from that? If so, how much? It'd be good for stuff like Heaven's Cacophony Avenging Storm (seriously, I don't think they should have put such a powerful effect on an available early, repeatable use item, kinda devaluates the Druid - but hey, it's there to be used) or Mantle of 7 Bolts, but those are 1/rest.

 

-I agree that PD is powerful but Eder can provide the PD, so no need to double up on that.

-I also agree that having a set test with a set encounter with set gear and just changing classes and builds does not provide a complete picture for ever encounter where one might outperform another.

--But in order to provide a data set you need to provide controls. In this case: same levels, same enemies, same difficulty, same gear, just different builds.

 

-Something to keep in mind is this wasn't meant to be a MIN/max test anyways. It was a play-style test to see which build fit into OP's plan to make a Euron Greyjoy type character using the LDV.

--Even then with the controls in place the order of speed of completion was: Marauder, Brute, Ravager, Brawler, Fanatic (No Immolation), Brawler, Holy slayer 

 

Gear notes:

-AS is available at level 3-4.

-Deltro's Cage is available about the same time and conductive storm isn't very hard to get on it.

-With the brute you can use any armor due to armored grace+pet+intuitive strikes+frenzy (I.S. stopping confused).

-That said; I tested both armor choices.

-In the vid I posted I was wearing the DOC armor because I found the 4 resources provided much more DPS than extra few damage points from the electric attacks.

 

 

 

Yeah, Deltro's Cage only gives half a Penetration point. If I weren't going to use DoC Breastplate I'd probably use Reckless Brigandine. 

 

I never even thought to use Heaven's Cacophony. 

[Haplok]

Heaven's Cacophony's Avenging Storm has very strong synergy with this aoe playstyle. That said, it's 1/rest and a bit cheap...

[Theosupus]

LOl I just noticed I accidentally put a second brawler instead of the swashy in the order of completion. Edited now.

Edit: I also think a little more optimization with the ravager might move it to faster than the Brute, but I had to spend (waste) time on heals/damage mitigation to keep him alive which impacted a few attack cycles.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Theosupus

[1TTFFSSE]

Basically, Marauder will be more powerful in terms of dps at very late levels - thanks to blood thirst.

 

Until than they will be pretty close but the swashi will be more durable. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Basically, Marauder will be more powerful in terms of dps at very late levels - thanks to blood thirst.

 

Until than they will be pretty close but the swashi will be more durable. 

 

What are your thoughts/experiences on Brute compared to either of those two? 

[1TTFFSSE]

 

Basically, Marauder will be more powerful in terms of dps at very late levels - thanks to blood thirst.

 

Until than they will be pretty close but the swashi will be more durable. 

 

What are your thoughts/experiences on Brute compared to either of those two? 

 

Brute is really strong too but Brute is more crowd control/aoe damage dealer than the other two.

 

Marauder is pure single target burst and is very good at that.

 

Swashi is kind of in the middle and adaptable.

 

Like if I run a marauder I will always set them loose at the enemy backline as a pure striker against dangerous squishy foes like enemy mages priests and druids.

 

Swashi and Brute would be better in classical off tank role cleaving the targets the main tank gathers with another dedicated single target damage dealer like a scout, (red hand) wanderer or said marauder striker dedicated at attacking the enemy spellcasters. So if you run a brute in the party I would recommend another damage dealer specifically dedicated to single target burst. If you run a swashi offtank you are more flexible but they are paired well with wizard dps or cipher/multi dps. You can probably get away without another single target burst dps if you run a swashy in the party.

 

for solo Swashy is definitely the strongest and most reliable of the three, with Brute in the middle in terms of gameplay ease and marauder the hardest. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

Basically, Marauder will be more powerful in terms of dps at very late levels - thanks to blood thirst.

 

Until than they will be pretty close but the swashi will be more durable. 

 

What are your thoughts/experiences on Brute compared to either of those two? 

 

Brute is really strong too but Brute is more crowd control/aoe damage dealer than the other two.

 

Marauder is pure single target burst and is very good at that.

 

Swashi is kind of in the middle and adaptable.

 

Like if I run a marauder I will always set them loose at the enemy backline as a pure striker against dangerous squishy foes like enemy mages priests and druids.

 

Swashi and Brute would be better in classical off tank role cleaving the targets the main tank gathers with another dedicated single target damage dealer like a scout, (red hand) wanderer or said marauder striker dedicated at attacking the enemy spellcasters. So if you run a brute in the party I would recommend another damage dealer specifically dedicated to single target burst. If you run a swashi offtank you are more flexible but they are paired well with wizard dps or cipher/multi dps. You can probably get away without another single target burst dps if you run a swashy in the party.

 

for solo Swashy is definitely the strongest and most reliable of the three, with Brute in the middle in terms of gameplay ease and marauder the hardest. 

 

 

Hmm, alright. Marauder and Brute both make the best use of all of the Shock damage. So then I guess it comes down to whether I'll be dealing with AoE or single target situations more often. 

 

The one thing I do like about Rogues in this game is that they evoke duelists just as much, if not more, than the cunning/sneaky assassin types. 

[1TTFFSSE]

 

 

 

Basically, Marauder will be more powerful in terms of dps at very late levels - thanks to blood thirst.

 

Until than they will be pretty close but the swashi will be more durable. 

 

What are your thoughts/experiences on Brute compared to either of those two? 

 

Brute is really strong too but Brute is more crowd control/aoe damage dealer than the other two.

 

Marauder is pure single target burst and is very good at that.

 

Swashi is kind of in the middle and adaptable.

 

Like if I run a marauder I will always set them loose at the enemy backline as a pure striker against dangerous squishy foes like enemy mages priests and druids.

 

Swashi and Brute would be better in classical off tank role cleaving the targets the main tank gathers with another dedicated single target damage dealer like a scout, (red hand) wanderer or said marauder striker dedicated at attacking the enemy spellcasters. So if you run a brute in the party I would recommend another damage dealer specifically dedicated to single target burst. If you run a swashi offtank you are more flexible but they are paired well with wizard dps or cipher/multi dps. You can probably get away without another single target burst dps if you run a swashy in the party.

 

for solo Swashy is definitely the strongest and most reliable of the three, with Brute in the middle in terms of gameplay ease and marauder the hardest. 

 

 

Hmm, alright. Marauder and Brute both make the best use of all of the Shock damage. So then I guess it comes down to whether I'll be dealing with AoE or single target situations more often. 

 

The one thing I do like about Rogues in this game is that they evoke duelists just as much, if not more, than the cunning/sneaky assassin types. 

 

I mean "optimized" if you go with LDV as you main weapon just go brute. Mara, unfortunately, feels gimped if you are not using dual weapons because of all of those full attacks. 

[baldurs_gate_2]

 

 

 

Basically, Marauder will be more powerful in terms of dps at very late levels - thanks to blood thirst.

 

Until than they will be pretty close but the swashi will be more durable. 

 

What are your thoughts/experiences on Brute compared to either of those two? 

 

Brute is really strong too but Brute is more crowd control/aoe damage dealer than the other two.

 

Marauder is pure single target burst and is very good at that.

 

Swashi is kind of in the middle and adaptable.

 

Like if I run a marauder I will always set them loose at the enemy backline as a pure striker against dangerous squishy foes like enemy mages priests and druids.

 

Swashi and Brute would be better in classical off tank role cleaving the targets the main tank gathers with another dedicated single target damage dealer like a scout, (red hand) wanderer or said marauder striker dedicated at attacking the enemy spellcasters. So if you run a brute in the party I would recommend another damage dealer specifically dedicated to single target burst. If you run a swashi offtank you are more flexible but they are paired well with wizard dps or cipher/multi dps. You can probably get away without another single target burst dps if you run a swashy in the party.

 

for solo Swashy is definitely the strongest and most reliable of the three, with Brute in the middle in terms of gameplay ease and marauder the hardest. 

 

 

Hmm, alright. Marauder and Brute both make the best use of all of the Shock damage. So then I guess it comes down to whether I'll be dealing with AoE or single target situations more often. 

 

The one thing I do like about Rogues in this game is that they evoke duelists just as much, if not more, than the cunning/sneaky assassin types. 

 

The most fights in the game favourise aoe damage, but the hard encounters are for single target and with LDV, you wont be able to beat neriscyrlas solo, because you need the full attack of two weapons to deal enough damage.

[Pharaun159]

Honesty ive been running a trickster/skald as my pro principi and hes been decimating on pod

[Verde]

Theory crafting is only that when your considerations are only at max level. Build crafting is just as much about getting there.

 

That's "why xx/xx build is so great once u get all the required end level gear and skills!" is such a silly selling pt. Ok, what about 90% of the game before then?

Edited August 28, 2018 by Verde

[Theosupus]

Theory crafting is only that when your considerations are only at max level. Build crafting is just as much about getting there.

 

That's "why xx/xx build is so great once u get all the required end level gear and skills!" is such a silly selling pt. Ok, what about 90% of the game before then?

Most of the gear can be gotten right after the 1st isle.

Some require a set circumstance to grab early (e.g. high mechanics)

Gear is easy once you know where it is.

 

Ability synergies do come at specific power levels so any build that specifically relies on high power level abilities obviously will only work at high levels.

 

However all the Barbarian multi-classes get frenzy right at 1, barbaric smash pretty early, and the rest get their main abilities early too. Sure clear out is really nice to use at higher levels but it's not make or break like frenzy is.

 

 

 

[Haplok]

Frenzy, particularly the Berserker flavor, is pretty great. But Barbaric Blow is expensive resource-wise and doesn't really shine until you can stack a lot of Accuracy. Even then, its still very expensive and you can rarely afford it before level 13 and refund on kill. Barbarians really lack a serious punch, particularly in early gameplay. Even Fighters with Mule Kick/Penetrating Strike are better in this regard.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Haplok