Ansalons Two Handed Melee Weapon Tier List

[Ansalon]

Overview: This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. Quite possible I haven't taken into account all possible synergies so some might be undervalued. A lot of them will be weaker if they are used with a class that doesn't synergize with their effects. All values are ingame values. The wiki is outdated since the 1.2 nerfs. Weapons are listed randomly within any Tier. Might change that at some point but it will require some work. I am also comparing weapons at max enchants. I haven't taken into account that some weapons will be very useful early on in the game if they start out with high weapon quality, forgoing the need to upgrade them. I will update it for Beast of Winter when I have the time.

 

 

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S - Tier. Exceptionally Strong weapons with powerful effects.

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  Whispers of the Endless Paths (Great Sword) Attacks in a cone +1 Pen (can proc Ability Effects in AoE that are normally single target (for instance knockdowns) 15% dmg as crush. Offensive Parry: +4 Deflection against Melee weapons, Counterattack enemy when Missed in Melee (inflicts Dazed). Run Through: Grants Run Through: Impale a target, knock them down, and cause bleeding (1/encounter). Especially strong on a Riposte build like my (Riposte tank) or with classes with single target stuns
  
  
  
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  Wahai Poraga (Pollaxe) Standard attack is AoE that hits target +3 additional target friend or foe. -20% Melee Damage Received for 2s on launching attack. 25% damage reflected at attacker for 2 sec after attacking. Very strong AoE damage but needs good positioning to not cleave allies. Extremly strong on certain builds like my Reaper of Souls build, but not as strong on standard builds.
  
  
  
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  Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff (Quarterstaff) For Melee: 1 All Acid Power Levels, +1 All Electricity Power Levels, +1 Fire Acid Power Levels, +1 Frost Acid Power Levels, Soul Storm Launches Raw Damage area of effect attack after scoring five consecutive hits on target, +5% Action Speed and Damage (scales with Metaphysics 15% at 20 metaphysics). +3% Burn, Corrode, Freeze, and Shock Damage. 15% action speed/dmg and combined 12% Lash makes it very strong for dps.
  
  
  
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  The Spine of Thicket Green (Quarterstaff) +2 All Plant/Restoration/Rejuvination PL's. +10 Defense vs Poison/Disease. 20% dmg +5 acc vs vessels. Strong Stat stick for Priest/Druid
  
  
  
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  The Twin Eels (Great Sword) Breath of Life: Restores 0 Health to all nearby allies on kill (scales with religion). 5% hit to crit chance with weapons (scales with religion). Grants Renewal: When knocked unconcious Revive with X Health (Scales with Religion. 10.3 Health at 0 Religion - 216 at 20 Religion). This thread discusses the weapons scaling. The Renewal and Breath of Life seems to scale quite nicely with Religion giving you a lot of sustain. If the hit to crit conversion turns out to be absolutely terrible then the weapon might be a lot weaker, but it's abit hard to know without extensive testing. Assuming the hit to crit conversion is around 0.5% per point of religion, it would mean you would get 15% hit to crit at 20 religion and a ton of sustain making it easily S - Tier. Even if the crit scaling is terrible the weapon should atleast be mid A - Tier at the bare minimum.
  
  
  
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  Oathbreaker's End (2 Handed Battle Axe) Executioner's Axe: Requires 2 hands to wield, but deals increased damage.Scales of Justice: Scoring a Critical Hit on an enemy causes them to take Raw Damage over time. Whenever that enemy deals damage, the duration increases. Enemies killed under the effects of Scales of Justice deal 0 Raw damage to nearby enemies. Weapon deals equivalent damage to a Great Sword of its weapon quality, and gets the +20% bonus crit dmg battle axes get. This Thread discusses the weapons effects. The Raw dot isnt all that strong (ticks for about 5-6 dmg at legendary quality every 2 sec) but killing a target under the effect of Scales of Justice will trigger a weapon attack just like a normal weapon swing in AoE, except it deals raw damage. These attacks can again proc other on hit effects. Very powerful on builds with AoE attacks that proc on hit effects like Barbarians Heart of Fury or Fighters Clear Out. In addition it has the Battle Axes 20% bonus crit dmg making it work nicely with crit builds. It needs more testing but is possibly a S - Tier weapon. A lot weaker on builds that doesn't have access to AoE attacks. Link to wiki seems to bug out when i link it to the weapon name. Click here instead  https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Oathbreaker's+End
  
  
  

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A - Tier. Mostly very good dps stats but not quite as ridicoulous as some S - Tier weps.

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  Blade of the Endless Paths (Estoc) -15% Recovery time, 15% crit dmg, +1 Melee accuracy per 6s (10 stacks) Strong dps stats.
  
  
  
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  Eager Blade (Estoc) 10% chance to instantly recover on hit. +2 and acc and 5% action speed on crit (4 stacks). Kaul's Stance: Randomly chosen: +1 AR, +10% melee dmg, +8 deflection. Strong dps stats.
  
  
  
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  Engoliero do Espirs (Estoc) 10% dmg as Raw. Cast Ghost Blades on kill. Ravenous Soul Hunger: -3 Mig/Con/Dex -> On kill: +3 Mig/Con/Dex https. Probably the highest potential single target dmg of any 2h but the penalty before a kill is very painful.
  
  
  
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  Voidwheel (Great Sword) 10% dmg as Raw, 10% dmg as Raw to self. 25% chance to cast Necrotic Lance on crit, -3 Corrode AR. Lots of dmg but deals dmg to self.
  
  
  
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  The Willbreaker (Morning Star) 25% miss to graze, 10% hit to crit. 25% chance Shaken (Rank 2 Resolve Affliction) on target on hit.-3 will on target for 30s on hit (stacks 5 times), 10% action speed). Decent to debuff Will so spells targeting Will has higher chance to hit. Weapon Modal + Barbarians Brute Force + Mig/Con affliction can give Barbarians VERY high crit chance. A-tier for Brute force Barb B - Tier for others.
  
  
  
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  Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff (Quarterstaff) As stat stick: 1 All Acid Power Levels, +1 All Electricity Power Levels, +1 Fire Acid Power Levels, +1 Frost Acid Power Levels. Elemental Induction +15% Damage for 10 sec when hit with Acid, Fire, Frost, or Electricity attacks. 1% Damage reduction for 10 sec when Hit (stacks 5 times, scales with Metaphysics) Soul Charge: +5% Staff Damage (Increases with Metaphysics skill 15% at 20 metaphysics), +5% Action Speed
  
  
  
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  Saru-Sichr (Morning Star) 3 Corrode dmg åer 12 sec on hit: Dot ticks have 5% chance to instantly kill enemies with <25% Health Both enchants are meh but this synergizes with on kill effects. Weapon Modal + Barbarians Brute Force + Mig/Con affliction can give Barbarians VERY high crit chance. A-tier for Brute force Barb C - Tier for others.
  
  
  

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B - Tier. Suboptimal stats but still good.

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  Sanguine Great Sword (Great Sword) Blood Gift: +5 health restored per 3s for 6s on crits. 10% hit to crit. 20% of Misses converted to Grazes. Prepare the offering: -15 Deflection vs melee, -2 slash AR for 20s (1/encounter). Decent sustain and dmg buffs
  
  
  
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  Lord Darryn's Voulge (Pollaxe) Bolting Strikes: 10% Chance on Hit with weapons to activate Lightning Strikes. Static Thunder: On Hit, applies a stacking effect to an enemy. On Crit, all enemies in an AoE will lose all stacks and take +10 Shock damage for every stack. Minor Spellbind: Ball Lightning: Grants Ball Lightning (Druid spell) (1 per rest). Soulbound only upgrading to Superb holds it back. Can get +3 Storm Power levels making it a very strong stat stick for Fury (Druid).
  
  
  

C - Tier. Weak stats.

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  Effort (Great Sword) Critical Hits can Hobble or Sicken enemies for 10 sec. Immune to Resolve afflictions while under 25% health, cannot be interrupted, Couragous(Rank 3 Resolve Inspiration). Ok debuffs and defense.
  
  
  
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  Wicked Beast (Pike) 10% chance to deal pierce dmg to self or ally on attack. Hounding: Chance to inflict hobbled knockdown, raw dmg for 12s, or -25% action speed on target on crit. 5% dmg with melee wep, +4 deflection vs melee weps. Cry Havoc: Foe Aoe 20-30 dmg, 3m push, Frighten for 15s (1/rest). Decent debuffs and dmg, strong 1/rest active. Can instead be upgraded to +2 Beast PLs but that doesn't seem useful.
  
  
  

D - Tier. Terrible stats or too conditional

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  Queen's Rule (Great Sword) Checkmate: Swap position with enemy. Stunned for 8 sec, Full attack (2/rest). Even if Check mate was 2 per encounter it would still be meh.
  
  
  
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  Street Sweeper (Quarterstaff) 15% chance to confuse on hit. -10s duration of hostile effects, -5s duration of benefitial effects on hit. Might be better then i give it credit for. Getting rid of debuffs is nice but thats about it.
  
  
  
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  Distraho (Great Sword) Chance to Shaken AoE on crit. Red Tear: +35 (1/rest). Weak heal and shaken is one of the weakest afflictions in the game.
  
  
  
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  Lance of the Midwood Stag (Pike) On bloodied Casts: Woodskin (+5 Pierce/Burn/Shock AR for 15s (1.5m AoE) and Lord of the Forest: +2 All PLs. Would be S - Tier stat stick if Lord of the Forest didn't require bloodied.
  
  
  

Edited August 26, 2018 by Ansalon

[Clerith]

I wonder what this forum thinks about your Whispers of the Endless Paths as the first ranked S-tier weapon. I called it trash already (well, it's B-tier in reality imo).

[Malkoy]

WotP is group friendly Wahai Poraga. Definitely A tier for double riposte (weapon ability stacks with Rogue's "Riposte" ability). I would not go as far as S, since it has low damage, requires extra ArPen and is good due to applying AND using rogues on-hit afflictions for bonus damage. Very Niche, hard to position for 3+ enemies hit, I usually get 1-2 extra enemies hit at most with 20-25 Int.
 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Malkoy

[thundercleese]

Yeah I pretty much don't bother with WotEP, though it does have a place in some niche builds - mainly riposte based as Malkoy said. Definitely not S-Tier, maybe he hasn't used it since the nerf?

 

I guess the ST per encounter enchant brings it up slightly. But a per encounter ability is just that - once per encounter.

Edited August 12, 2018 by thundercleese

[Boeroer]

As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience.

 

Once again: Espirs procs spells on kill that get all weapon bonuses and every kill procs those spells - not only blade-kills.

 

Oathbreaker's End dito.

 

WotEP ist really bad against single targets while it's good against mobs if you can apply afflictons with melee attacks.

 

Wahaī Pōraga only attacks max 4 enemies and has friendly fire. Bad against single targets.

 

Lord Darryn's Voulge applies its effects with AoE stuff like Carnage.

 

Citzal's Spirit Lance, while being one of the best (if not the best) weapon is not even on the list.

 

In general I think those tier lists are pointless because it so much depends on you character what's powerful and what not.

[Malkoy]

Citzal's Spirit Lance, while being one of the best (if not the best) weapon is not even on the list.

Semantics are important though. I would not call Citzal's or Firebrand "weapons" without adding "summoned" beforehand. If we consider magic to be weapons, then so are our will and determination, and as we expand upon definition things get very confusing

[Urthor]

I don't see why Whispers shouldn't be S tier, you should be assuming that the weapons are being used in classes built around them, the proper way, at the end of the day.

 

Also Chromatic Quarterstaff love me some power levels, forgot that item was around at all.  

Edited August 12, 2018 by Urthor

[Boeroer]

You can assume a lot. If you want to make a general list then you have to use the average usefulness, not the usefulness with a special build. Else Espirs would be god tier for example.

 

Or you make a list of weapons when build around properly - but then you'd have to mention the build/abilities/skills as well.

 

Mixing both up would be completely useless as a source of information.

[Urthor]

What's even the point with a list of weapons not linked to a particular build.  That'd be almost useless really.  You want to see gear in context.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Urthor

[Boeroer]

Exactly

[Manveru123]

 

This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. 

Translation: this is basically useless, but come visit my social channels, I need views!

[mant2si]

Please be more specific which builds you use to rate weapons 

[Ansalon]

I wonder what this forum thinks about your Whispers of the Endless Paths as the first ranked S-tier weapon. I called it trash already (well, it's B-tier in reality imo).

Not very good on most builds, Absolutely insane as a stun lock/riposte/proc multiple effect kind of weapon in my experince. Ive run it on PoTD Upscaling very effectively in Patch 1.2.0.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Ansalon

[Ansalon]

I don't see why Whispers shouldn't be S tier, you should be assuming that the weapons are being used in classes built around them, the proper way, at the end of the day.

 

Also Chromatic Quarterstaff love me some power levels, forgot that item was around at all.  

Basically this. If people bother to read the Overview of my posts you will see in what context the list is created. For some weapon types there are multiple synergize going over multiple classes while on other weapon types there are only a couple.

[Ansalon]

 

 

This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. 

Translation: this is basically useless, but come visit my social channels, I need views!

 

So you think this contributes nothing of value? At the very least it should give a newer player an indication of what weapons are good as long as they bother reading the context of the post. I would never claim this is a definitive objective guide that will work on every single class/item combination, but imo I have atleast put enough context that people should be able to figure out in what situations each weapon should be strong.

[thundercleese]

I would suggest that the items you haven't thoroughly tested be removed from the lists, because some of it is just blatantly wrong.

[Ansalon]

As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience.

 

Once again: Espirs procs spells on kill that get all weapon bonuses and every kill procs those spells - not only blade-kills.

 

Oathbreaker's End dito.

 

WotEP ist really bad against single targets while it's good against mobs if you can apply afflictons with melee attacks.

 

Wahaī Pōraga only attacks max 4 enemies and has friendly fire. Bad against single targets.

 

Lord Darryn's Voulge applies its effects with AoE stuff like Carnage.

 

Citzal's Spirit Lance, while being one of the best (if not the best) weapon is not even on the list.

 

In general I think those tier lists are pointless because it so much depends on you character what's powerful and what not.

You are saying I have no in game experience but I do have 224 hours played with the game, a sizeable portion of which is spent just testing weapons. This is some pretty dumb ad-hominem bull****. I'm not claiming I have an objetive 140 IQ knowledge about every single weapon/class/build combination in the game, its just meant as a tool to help people theory craft. Im happy to update the post when people contribute in the discussion but it is after all based on MY OPINION, which any Tier List is ultimately going to be.

[Ansalon]

You can assume a lot. If you want to make a general list then you have to use the average usefulness, not the usefulness with a special build. Else Espirs would be god tier for example.

 

Or you make a list of weapons when build around properly - but then you'd have to mention the build/abilities/skills as well.

 

Mixing both up would be completely useless as a source of information.

Claiming that mixing them makes the list useless is pretty absurd. I'm trying to provide enough information that people can make up their own minds what will fit their build/playstyle. There is a pretty big difference between rating something low because it's only useful against a small portion of enemies in the game (for instance spirits) and rating something high because a weapon only works on certain builds (but will be very good throughout basically all enounters in the game). As you can see my Armor/Ranged Weapon Tier lists are way more consistent on those facts just because of the nature of the enchantments they get. They  usually have more general utility, instead of conditional utility.

[Boeroer]

 

As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience.

 

Once again: Espirs procs spells on kill that get all weapon bonuses and every kill procs those spells - not only blade-kills.

 

Oathbreaker's End dito.

 

WotEP ist really bad against single targets while it's good against mobs if you can apply afflictons with melee attacks.

 

Wahaī Pōraga only attacks max 4 enemies and has friendly fire. Bad against single targets.

 

Lord Darryn's Voulge applies its effects with AoE stuff like Carnage.

 

Citzal's Spirit Lance, while being one of the best (if not the best) weapon is not even on the list.

 

In general I think those tier lists are pointless because it so much depends on you character what's powerful and what not.

You are saying I have no in game experience but I do have 224 hours played with the game, a sizeable portion of which is spent just testing weapons. This is some pretty dumb ad-hominem bull****. I'm not claiming I have an objetive 140 IQ knowledge about every single weapon/class/build combination in the game, its just meant as a tool to help people theory craft. Im happy to update the post when people contribute in the discussion but it is after all based on MY OPINION, which any Tier List is ultimately going to be.

You really have to calm down. I'm critizing your list, not you as a person. I wish we could keep it that way.

 

And what's that about 224 hours of playing the game has to do with anything?

 

I played the Deadfire beta for over 300 hours and until now put 650 hours into Deadfire - most of it is testing gear. Yet I couldn't do an objective tier list of items. Because I'm far from the point where I tested all weapons with all builds that might be good with them. How could I? It's too much stuff. That's why I usually only judge and recommend items I have used. Or at least discussed in the forums. And even then I make lots of mistakes because a patch can alter item behaviours - sometime secretly or I just missed some cool stuff although I used the item in-game.

But based on your argument I should be doing at least 3 of those lists.

But if I would make such a "complete" list it would be pointless as well. It's not about you - your approach is just so that I say it is not very useful. That might hurt you, but I don't attack you personally.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[Ansalon]

 

 

As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience.

 

Once again: Espirs procs spells on kill that get all weapon bonuses and every kill procs those spells - not only blade-kills.

 

Oathbreaker's End dito.

 

WotEP ist really bad against single targets while it's good against mobs if you can apply afflictons with melee attacks.

 

Wahaī Pōraga only attacks max 4 enemies and has friendly fire. Bad against single targets.

 

Lord Darryn's Voulge applies its effects with AoE stuff like Carnage.

 

Citzal's Spirit Lance, while being one of the best (if not the best) weapon is not even on the list.

 

In general I think those tier lists are pointless because it so much depends on you character what's powerful and what not.

You are saying I have no in game experience but I do have 224 hours played with the game, a sizeable portion of which is spent just testing weapons. This is some pretty dumb ad-hominem bull****. I'm not claiming I have an objetive 140 IQ knowledge about every single weapon/class/build combination in the game, its just meant as a tool to help people theory craft. Im happy to update the post when people contribute in the discussion but it is after all based on MY OPINION, which any Tier List is ultimately going to be.

You really have to calm down. I'm critizing your list, not you as a person. I wish we could keep it that way.

 

And what's that about 224 hours of playing the game has to do with anything?

 

I played the Deadfire beta for over 300 hours and until now put 650 hours into Deadfire - most of it is testing gear. Yet I couldn't do an objective tier list of items. Because I'm far from the point where I tested all weapons with all builds that might be good with them. How could I? It's too much stuff. That's why I usually only judge and recommend items I have used. Or at least discussed in the forums. And even then I make lots of mistakes because a patch can alter item behaviours - sometime secretly or I just missed some cool stuff although I used the item in-game.

But based on your argument I should be doing at least 3 of those lists.

But if I would make such a "complete" list it would be pointless as well. It's not about you - your approach is just so that I say it is not very useful. That might hurt you, but I don't attack you personally.

 

I guess this might be where is some of the confusion comes from. I never intended to claim my list was objective. It's just based on a lot of testing, theorycrafting and discussion on reddit. Only read a few posts on this forum, so you probably have had some discussions i'm not aware of. Which is one of the points on posting it on multiple forums, to get different feedback. What do you mean with "But based on your argument I should be doing at least 3 of those lists." . It seems we are talking above eachothers heads or something. My point was just that my opinion was rooted in experience, not just copypasta from the wiki. I didn't mean that my argument was objective due to time spent in the game - rather my opinions are rooted in experience (which is of course subjective).

Edited August 12, 2018 by Ansalon

[Ansalon]

As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience.

 

Once again: Espirs procs spells on kill that get all weapon bonuses and every kill procs those spells - not only blade-kills.

 

Oathbreaker's End dito.

 

WotEP ist really bad against single targets while it's good against mobs if you can apply afflictons with melee attacks.

 

Wahaī Pōraga only attacks max 4 enemies and has friendly fire. Bad against single targets.

 

Lord Darryn's Voulge applies its effects with AoE stuff like Carnage.

 

Citzal's Spirit Lance, while being one of the best (if not the best) weapon is not even on the list.

 

In general I think those tier lists are pointless because it so much depends on you character what's powerful and what not.

As I pointed out in my post Engoliero do Espirs does have some of the highest dmg potential in the game. The reason why I didn't put it into Tier S was because of the penalty you get before a kill. If you have done a lot of testing and find the weapon worthy of Tier S I will take your word on it.

Oathbreaker's End is BoW content which this list isn't updated for yet but I will keep that in mind once I do update.

Wahai Poraga isn't inteded to be wielded as your sole weapon. You can swap it out when there are fewer targets left. This is a timestamp link on a build i made, for a combat showcase that utilises this Weapon. 

I haven't added Summoned Weapons mostly because i'm too unfamiliar with them. Never run anything resembling an Arcane Knight. When I have the time I will look into it, but it's not a huge priority for me right now.

 

One build I made that uses WotEP and another one reddit user u/teesinz made

Edited August 13, 2018 by Ansalon

[Verde]

I don't see why Whispers shouldn't be S tier, you should be assuming that the weapons are being used in classes built around them, the proper way, at the end of the day.

 

Also Chromatic Quarterstaff love me some power levels, forgot that item was around at all.

Chromo is love, Chromo is life.

[pi2repsion]

Assuming for the sake of argument that assigning tiers is a good idea in the first place (which I'm not certain of, but I'm not the intended target audience so I may be wrong) , assigning a tier to soulbound weapons that play out very differently depending on class is definitely not be a good idea: Each of the three variants should be individually weighed and based on that assigned a tier as they are effectively different weapons. The tier you end up with for each might be the same, and might not.

 

Take e.g. Lord Darryn's Voulge,

 

Soulbound to a barbarian, you end up upgrading Static Thunder to also disorient. To a fighter it casts a random storm spell when you dip below 50% hp (1/encounter), and to a druid it adds 3 storm power levels. (Which is why this weapon is the weapon of choice going together with Deltro's Cage body armour for any electric god build as pointed out in the armour thread)

 

To the two former not being able to upgrade to legendary is a concern, but to the latter who is likely to be using it as a stat stick, spending precious resources in limited supply on upgrading it to legendary was probably never a consideration in the first place. So it would make sense to assign the Druid variant a higher tier.

Edited August 13, 2018 by pi2repsion

[Ansalon]

Assuming for the sake of argument that assigning tiers is a good idea in the first place (which I'm not certain of, but I'm not the intended target audience so I may be wrong) , assigning a tier to soulbound weapons that play out very differently depending on class is definitely not be a good idea: Each of the three variants should be individually weighed and based on that assigned a tier as they are effectively different weapons. The tier you end up with for each might be the same, and might not.

 

Take e.g. Lord Darryn's Voulge,

 

Soulbound to a barbarian, you end up upgrading Static Thunder to also disorient. To a fighter it casts a random storm spell when you dip below 50% hp (1/encounter), and to a druid it adds 3 storm power levels. (Which is why this weapon is the weapon of choice going together with Deltro's Cage body armour for any electric god build as pointed out in the armour thread)

 

To the two former not being able to upgrade to legendary is a concern, but to the latter who is likely to be using it as a stat stick, spending precious resources in limited supply on upgrading it to legendary was probably never a consideration in the first place. So it would make sense to assign the Druid variant a higher tier.

Thanks for your input I will look into it when I can

[Ansalon]

As a note to anyone disliking the idea of Tiers. My reasoning for ordering it this way is because in other games, as a newcomer to the game, I have gotten great value of other peoples Tier lists when trying to theorycraft my own builds. This was my way of trying to add something of value to the Pillars community. Tier lists are of course problematic and someone with a lot of experience might take a lot of issue with any particular item on the list. Therefore I have tried my best to put my evaluation into context so people can make up their own minds. It was never my intention to come across as if I have the definitive answer on how this game is supposed to be played, I just wanted to provide a tool that people could use to further their (and my own) understanding of the game, while also sparking a discussion.