Dungeons & Dragons is back with record sales

[Manveru123]

Really, character design? I'd say that Morrigan and Shale were pretty awesome to be honest.

[AFA]

 

Dragon Age is a good example. Went from a brilliant cRPG to hot garbage just to cater to console audience.

 

 

Also even bad games sell like hot potatoes on Switch and no one makes cRPG games on that.

 

Here is what happened with DoA:

 

1. Outstanding story, solid combat for its time.

 

2. Big step forward in the combat gameplay (less passives, more actives, cross class combos) but moderate fail on story and HUGE fail on character design in particular (basically foreshadowing Mass Effect 3). Literally the entire cast of companions is fairly unlikeable (except Varric, guess who got to come back in the sequel.. exactly).

 

Lots of very valid complaints about reuse of the same assets over and over (dungeons) and a fairly bland city.

 

3. Extremely butthurt developers went full ape**** on world building while neglecting pretty much everything else. Full open world MMO disaster. Companion AI was supposed to be replaced to be easier to use by stupid people but unfortunately, not only did they remove the custom AI sets but they also forgot to replace the companion AI entirely (because as mentioned above the only people working on DA3 were doing only world building all the time because of how butthurt they were), instead they coded 3 lines for it and created the stupidest, lowest IQ companions in the history of video games.

 

 

I love DA2, and I think it is getting recognized as a flawed gem as time passes. Was a very ballsy move by Bioware. Great narrative deconstruction of the typical Bioware hero and plot. It being rushed (and therefore the repeating environments, etc) is what screwed it. Could have been better than DAO with another year of development. IMO it had the best story and characters.

 

Butthurt fans is what gave us DAI. They wanted their world-shattering choices (that devs have to retcon in the future because you can't design a sequel around all possibilities), their perfect Mary Sue protagonist that never got defeated, their super epic battles, etc. DAI was a giant reaction to DA2, and they swung way too far the other way. My biggest complaint about DAi was the shift in tone. Whatever you thought of the originals, they felt like they were in the same universe. DAI was too light-hearted and black-and-white. The retcons to Tevinter and the Qunari were also pretty damn poor.

 

DA2 did foreshadow the ME3 fan outrage, but to the credit of Mass Effect fans, they didn't threaten to rape a dev's kids like DA fans did.

[Vitalis]

 

 

Dragon Age is a good example. Went from a brilliant cRPG to hot garbage just to cater to console audience.

 

 

 

Also even bad games sell like hot potatoes on Switch and no one makes cRPG games on that.

 

Here is what happened with DoA:

 

1. Outstanding story, solid combat for its time.

 

2. Big step forward in the combat gameplay (less passives, more actives, cross class combos) but moderate fail on story and HUGE fail on character design in particular (basically foreshadowing Mass Effect 3). Literally the entire cast of companions is fairly unlikeable (except Varric, guess who got to come back in the sequel.. exactly).

 

Lots of very valid complaints about reuse of the same assets over and over (dungeons) and a fairly bland city.

 

3. Extremely butthurt developers went full ape**** on world building while neglecting pretty much everything else. Full open world MMO disaster. Companion AI was supposed to be replaced to be easier to use by stupid people but unfortunately, not only did they remove the custom AI sets but they also forgot to replace the companion AI entirely (because as mentioned above the only people working on DA3 were doing only world building all the time because of how butthurt they were), instead they coded 3 lines for it and created the stupidest, lowest IQ companions in the history of video games.

I love DA2, and I think it is getting recognized as a flawed gem as time passes. Was a very ballsy move by Bioware. Great narrative deconstruction of the typical Bioware hero and plot. It being rushed (and therefore the repeating environments, etc) is what screwed it. Could have been better than DAO with another year of development. IMO it had the best story and characters.

 

Butthurt fans is what gave us DAI. They wanted their world-shattering choices (that devs have to retcon in the future because you can't design a sequel around all possibilities), their perfect Mary Sue protagonist that never got defeated, their super epic battles, etc. DAI was a giant reaction to DA2, and they swung way too far the other way. My biggest complaint about DAi was the shift in tone. Whatever you thought of the originals, they felt like they were in the same universe. DAI was too light-hearted and black-and-white. The retcons to Tevinter and the Qunari were also pretty damn poor.

 

DA2 did foreshadow the ME3 fan outrage, but to the credit of Mass Effect fans, they didn't threaten to rape a dev's kids like DA fans did.

BioWare's issue is that their ego became larger than their ability to actually make good games. You are correct about the reception of DAI, and that game is one of the reasons many people are starting to realize that DA2 wasn't such a bad game after all.

 

ME3's endings occured because Casey Hudson was outraged that the original endings were leaked, so he got together with Mac Walters to produce the steaming pile of RGB endings.

 

As for a new D&D game, 5e will be extremely difficult to adapt to a cRPG setting, even though it is more stream lined than 3.5. If such a game were made, it would definitely be more in line with the Witcher 3. Even Assassin's Creed is copying the Witcher now.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Dragon Age was always bad and sales don't correlate to quality. I don't want an Obsidian DnD game because it would be a bad translation to vidyagames and use a bland setting like Forgotten Realms.

[Vitalis]

Dragon Age was always bad and sales don't correlate to quality. I don't want an Obsidian DnD game because it would be a bad translation to vidyagames and use a bland setting like Forgotten Realms.

And they will likely have cameos from Elminster, Drizzt Do'MarySue, Artemis IShouldBeDead, or some other inane character from the setting.

[gkathellar]

Dragon Age was always bad and sales don't correlate to quality. I don't want an Obsidian DnD game because it would be a bad translation to vidyagames and use a bland setting like Forgotten Realms.

 

FWIW, video games are the only place that I've felt FR wasn't bland. I think that's for a number of reasons. FR is actually huge and impossibly detailed, if not consistent, and so when you focus on small-scale, local concerns while allowing glimpses of the wider world, it does kind of work. And once you get away from the Sword Coast (and to a lesser extent, the Spine of the World), the whole setting does get a lot more interesting, and cRPGs have had a surprisingly good track record on doing so.

 

But yeah, especially with 5E promoting FR as the "official setting" and seeming to have forgotten that places other than the Sword Coast exist, we would almost certainly get a whole bunch more of that.

[Rheios]

If they made a half-decent Dark Sun crpg  (or another good Planescape one) I'd be pretty thrilled. They won't but that doesn't change the dream.

5e could work okay fine with its base mechanics in a game. The only thing I could think would be weird is Short Rests stuff with regard to Hit Die and classes. And a just a different button to trigger a short rest with a window similar to Deadfire's food selection on rest, but for HD selection and listing what each class is getting back or something, would probably be enough.

 

@gkathellar: I credit you for your abilities to dodge the lingering embers of edition war there at the beginning of the thread.

[no1fanboy]

is there any news of them making another D&D rpg?

[Vitalis]

If they made a half-decent Dark Sun crpg (or another good Planescape one) I'd be pretty thrilled. They won't but that doesn't change the dream.

 

5e could work okay fine with its base mechanics in a game. The only thing I could think would be weird is Short Rests stuff with regard to Hit Die and classes. And a just a different button to trigger a short rest with a window similar to Deadfire's food selection on rest, but for HD selection and listing what each class is getting back or something, would probably be enough.

 

@gkathellar: I credit you for your abilities to dodge the lingering embers of edition war there at the beginning of the thread.

Dark Sun could work, but I think Eberron is a better fit for an ARPG setting. It was even designed to have more action with the poor introduction of Action Points. The setting already has airship and a magical train for fast travel.

 

Both settings are currently unsupported under 5e.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Vitalis

[bonebrah]

I'd take anything over that abomination Sword Coast Legends.

[kanisatha]

Right now it seems that WotC has every possible type of game in the works or already released except for a true RPG. It really sucks. Beamdog seemed to be making a new IP true D&D RPG, but even that project now looks to have fallen through.

[no1fanboy]

Say if i wanted to play pen and paper D&D now ( in the forgotten realms setting) what is the best or the most popular way to play it online?

 

I havent played it since high school (many years ago) and i have no idea how it is played these days?

[gkathellar]

Say if i wanted to play pen and paper D&D now ( in the forgotten realms setting) what is the best or the most popular way to play it online?

 

I havent played it since high school (many years ago) and i have no idea how it is played these days?

 

Lots of people use roll20. It's not a perfect platform, but it's widely known and accessible, so it has that going for it.

 

If you're looking for a slower pace, you can always try PbP, in which case Giant In the Playground, ENWorld, and MinMaxBoards all have functioning communities (albeit not specifically 5e-focused ones). Fair warning: PbP games die tend to collapse without momentum.

Edited July 14, 2018 by gkathellar

[Night Stalker]

I have heard good things about Fantasy Grounds, but I haven't tried it myself.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Night Stalker

[misterjimmy]

Right now it seems that WotC has every possible type of game in the works or already released except for a true RPG. It really sucks. Beamdog seemed to be making a new IP true D&D RPG, but even that project now looks to have fallen through.

Worst dialogue in Baldur's Gate series.

[AFA]

 

Right now it seems that WotC has every possible type of game in the works or already released except for a true RPG. It really sucks. Beamdog seemed to be making a new IP true D&D RPG, but even that project now looks to have fallen through.

Worst dialogue in Baldur's Gate series.

 

 

So, that is the dialog that caused unending butthurt for the snowflakes? I remember not being able to get a good feel for SoDS, because anything about it on the web was bitching over this. Never saw the actual dialog until now.

[kanisatha]

Not going to get into that controversy but regardless of which side you fall on, SoD is overall actually a pretty solid expansion for BG and well worth the time and money playing. It is not "amazing" or anything like that but it is pretty good.

[aksrasjel]

 

 

Right now it seems that WotC has every possible type of game in the works or already released except for a true RPG. It really sucks. Beamdog seemed to be making a new IP true D&D RPG, but even that project now looks to have fallen through.

Worst dialogue in Baldur's Gate series.

So, that is the dialog that caused unending butthurt for the snowflakes? I remember not being able to get a good feel for SoDS, because anything about it on the web was bitching over this. Never saw the actual dialog until now.

 

That's just a tip of the iceberg. It's random and pointless but not the worst. There was also a bit about Minsc making fun of people supporting GamerGate out of nowhere. And this sidequest about half-orc "refugees" that everybody hates beacuse of bigotry with city guard abusing them beacuse orc lives matter or something. And there is this unfortunate and weidly hostile dialogue with Voghiln if you play as female. There was a quite lot of heavy-handed call-backs and allusions to contemporary sociopolitical climate in US - which wasn't for everyone's tastes and didn't feel necessary - and people called out SoD's lead writer for that, who outright admitted that her writing is "political" and if you don't like it, too bad. 

 

As for the game itself - it was alright. Had some cool ideas and setpieces, a bunch of weird retcons and plot points, *really* spotty writing here and there (Viconia and Safana act weidly out of character, Neera is really obnoxious this time around) but overall - excluding all the controversy - I would call it "above average". Won't win any awards, but I had moderate fun with it.

Edited July 16, 2018 by aksrasjel

[Boeroer]

and people called out SoD's lead writer for that, who outright admitted that her writing is "political" and if you don't like it, too bad.

 

Sounds like a reasonable attitude for a confident writer.

 

Also that dialogue (that I never experienced first-hand) is not very exciting, but why is it supposed to be "the worst"? Because it triggers your inner "SJW MAKE ME GO CAPS-LOCK!!1eleven!!" or something?

[algroth]

God, not this whole "SJWs ruining muh Baldur's Gate" nonsense again...

 

Anyhow, with regards to what is so creaky about Beamdog's additions and expansion, I'll defer to Noah Caldwell's Gervais' excellent analysis on the franchise (34:29 to 1:00:00 for SoD and Beamdog - also *SPOILERS*, of course):

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by algroth

[aksrasjel]

Sounds like a reasonable attitude for a confident writer.

Agree to disagree. If the writer was from the other side of political spectrum would her attitude be also reasonable and confident?

 

Before anything, I am neutral on the topic of "contemporary left-wing/right-wing sociopolitics in US et al." - this simply doesn't concern me. And I literally slept through GamerGate.

 

I'm just not a fan of deliberate allusions to contemporary politics in any form of entertainment media - be it from the left or right side - and drawing lines. Especially in escapist fiction that Baldur's Gate always was. You can't divorce yourself from politics completely, obviously - the problem with it it's that it's contemporary and a lot of people have strong opinions about it one way or another. And that leads to backlash, controversy and a lot of unpleasantness, so you really need to watch out not to piss off someone - unless it's controversy you're looking for. IMO a reasonable "entertainment" writer should distance themselves from their politics a bit, keep in mind that real world is not black and white and there are people on both sides - with emphasis on people. Unite, not divide. But I may be naive in thinking so.

 

But this topic is ugly and toxic as it is. I may have overreacted - so I'll end it right here. If I offended anyone - my apologies.

Edited July 16, 2018 by aksrasjel

[Amentep]

I must have missed where this forum became the Dungeon's and Dragon's / Baldur's Gate forum.
 
If you wish to suggest Obsidian make a game, there is Obsidian General Forum
 
If you wish to praise/complain/remain neutral on Beamdog's efforts, there is the Computer and Console Forum
 

If you wish to discuss on-topic or at least vaguely adjacent topics to PoEII this is the correct forum.