I just have to share what happens..

[AndreaColombo]

When the weapon is obviously the problem, people are discussing how they should nerf Cleaving Stance further. 

 

I don't think Cleaving Stance should be nerfed further. I think recursive proccing should have been addressed instead of nerfing the ability.

 

They should remove recursive proccing and give us back the old Cleaving Stance and Swift Flurry.

[Boeroer]

Exactly. Stop the recursive nonsense and raise the chances again/ allow more cleave targets. This would be better for the normal player while it's not that abusable.

 

The bug of the weaopon was already acknowledged and reported. No need to discuss it further, right?

[Kaylon]

Exactly. Stop the recursive nonsense and raise the chances again/ allow more cleave targets. This would be better for the normal player while it's not that abusable.

When I'll see a video showing how you can abuse cleaving stance then we can discuss it... Same with swift flurry/heartbeat drumming - it doesn't matter if they're recursive or not as long as they can't be abused. 

[Boeroer]

They can be abused. Didn't I mention before that yesterday I did a one-shot of a whole bunch of Rotghasts with Spirit Lance + Stunning Surge (with Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming)? Or was it in another thread? I will not present you a video - you will have to trust me or try it out yourself...

 

The lowering of Swift Flurry's percentage and the reduction of cleave targets hurts normal players but doesn't prevent abuse of recursive procs. It's a cheap but ugly method. Only the removal of recursive procs can prevent recursive procs without making the abilities crap for the normal player. It's actually quite simple and should be a position that anyone could agree to.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Indeed. The cheap and ugly method is the reason why we are getting things like "10% chance to deal X effect on critical melee" or "50% chance to do Y effect when being hit by a critical melee (Upgraded to Z if Critical)".

 

If an effect is deemed too good, layer it behind a 10% dice roll. Hiding interesting effects behind layers of RNG makes imagining builds so annoying...

Edited July 1, 2018 by mosspit

[Kaylon]

They can be abused. Didn't I mention before that yesterday I did a one-shot of a whole bunch of Rotghasts with Spirit Lance + Stunning Surge (with Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming)? Or was it in another thread? I will not present you a video - you will have to trust me or try it out yourself...

 

The lowering of Swift Flurry's percentage and the reduction of cleave targets hurts normal players but doesn't prevent abuse of recursive procs. It's a cheap but ugly method. Only the removal of recursive procs can prevent recursive procs without making the abilities crap for the normal player. It's actually quite simple and should be a position that anyone could agree to.

Well, your word is really not enough for me Be careful however, because it could be enough for Obsidian and you might not like the result. 

[Boeroer]

But... I want them to remove the recursive procs - that's the whole point of the latest discussion. 

[mosspit]

I mean ideally Obs would have tackled the issue of recursive procs in the manner of checking on the conditions of the originating attack.

 

But so far they have made a rather "interesting" decision to control the input (in terms of trigger %) to the governing method rather changing the logic within the method itself. Leads me to believe they intentionally do not want to deal with the logic changes in the first place.

 

Anyways, the best bet will be to fix the weapon proc for the pollaxe instead - Obs has already invested into controlling the situation in that manner. Changing the logic governing recursive procs is the better solution but it will be a tad inconsistent at this stage.

 

I really like the idea of internal cooldown. But thinking about it, I am inclined to the opinion that internal cooldowns are more suited for cooldown based game play.

Edited July 2, 2018 by mosspit

[Kaylon]

But... I want them to remove the recursive procs - that's the whole point of the latest discussion. 

Because you really think Obsidian will do what you want? 

[Boeroer]

Not always - but maybe once it gets some attention because enough people chime in and agree. Your contribution to the discussion wasn't really helpful so far - what do you want to accomplish with your posts? Win the argument by mocking and playing the devil's advocate? I still think it's a very reasonable request that the recursion gets removed altogether while making those abilities attractive for the normal player again. If nobody talks about it surely nothing will chance - or let's say the chances are lower.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Ok so....

According to the bundle files,

1. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga" (1700bfb4-6ca5-4789-988c-1ad629d2965f)
is the entry point of the attack, and the attack has an ExtraAttack will leads to...

2. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga_AoE" (8266b7fd-87ce-44ca-ab11-ca11775c8eab)
which is an AoE attack which does no damage which in leads to a RandomAttackAoeComponent ....

3. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga_RandomAttack" (5e0495a3-a335-46e3-aad9-f7a076aa7e2d)
This was previously predefined to have 2 extra attacks with the max number of attack on a single target as 1. This attack will have proper dmg values.

It should be fine up to here. Problem is "Wahai_Poraga_RandomAttack" itself has an ExtraAttackID node too which leads back to "Wahai_Poraga_AoE". So basically, it creates an "closed" loop between 2 and 3. Until there are no suitable targets based on the proc conditions governing 3.

You don't even need any critical procs or full attacks to create massive carnage, you just need to be surrounded.




The fix is quite simple - set ExtraAttackID within 3 to 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 and the loop breaks

 

If anyone is interested, you can try the fix from here
https://github.com/mosspit/df_wahaiporaga_fix

Edited July 2, 2018 by mosspit

[mant2si]

Ok so....

 

According to the bundle files,

 

1. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga" (1700bfb4-6ca5-4789-988c-1ad629d2965f)

is the entry point of the attack, and the attack has an ExtraAttack will leads to...

 

2. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga_AoE" (8266b7fd-87ce-44ca-ab11-ca11775c8eab)

which is an AoE attack which does no damage which in leads to a RandomAttackAoeComponent ....

 

3. "DebugName": "Wahai_Poraga_RandomAttack" (5e0495a3-a335-46e3-aad9-f7a076aa7e2d)

This was previously predefined to have 2 extra attacks with the max number of attack on a single target as 1. This attack will have proper dmg values.

 

It should be fine up to here. Problem is "Wahai_Poraga_RandomAttack" itself has an ExtraAttackID node too which leads back to "Wahai_Poraga_AoE". So basically, it creates an "closed" loop between 2 and 3. Until there are no suitable targets based on the proc conditions governing 3.

 

You don't even need any critical procs or full attacks to create massive carnage, you just need to be surrounded.

 

 

 

 

The fix is quite simple - set ExtraAttackID within 3 to 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 and the loop breaks

 

If anyone is interested, you can try the fix from here

https://github.com/mosspit/df_wahaiporaga_fix

Yep this works, lol how much time you spend on this fix :D ?

[mosspit]

This together with the Rooting Pain fix, I spent about 2hours?

 

I couldn't carry on playing my playthrough due to these bugs so it seems like the most productive thing to do lol

Edited July 2, 2018 by mosspit

[mant2si]

This together with the Rooting Pain fix, I spent about 2hours?

 

I couldn't carrying on playing my playthrough due these bugs so it seems like the most productive thing to do lol

Huh, if there exist some modding tutorial ? 

Edited July 2, 2018 by mant2si

[mosspit]

I used this

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8jiez5/poe2_modding_tutorial_rough_and_ready/

 

You need a suitable editor. I used Notepad++ and JSON formatter plugin from http://www.sunjw.us/jstoolnpp/

 

 

Honestly, it is pretty straightforward.

[mant2si]

I used this

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8jiez5/poe2_modding_tutorial_rough_and_ready/

 

You need a suitable editor. I used Notepad++ and JSON formatter plugin from http://www.sunjw.us/jstoolnpp/

 

 

Honestly, it is pretty straightforward.

Thanks, good point for start

I using VS because I working on Linux  :D

I assume that more info can be found in modding forum

 

[Archaven]

This together with the Rooting Pain fix, I spent about 2hours?

 

I couldn't carry on playing my playthrough due to these bugs so it seems like the most productive thing to do lol

 

sure it is fixed? i thought patch 1.1 mentioned it was fixed. gosh how i wish obsidian has more talented people.

[mosspit]

 

This together with the Rooting Pain fix, I spent about 2hours?

 

I couldn't carry on playing my playthrough due to these bugs so it seems like the most productive thing to do lol

 

sure it is fixed? i thought patch 1.1 mentioned it was fixed. gosh how i wish obsidian has more talented people.

 

The fix I was referring to was with regards to the bug introduced by patch 1.2. I created a bug report at https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103172-bug-12-rooting-pain-no-longer-triggers/ but so far radio silence from Obs.

 

In nerfing the proc rate to Rooting Pain, it resulted in wrongly assigning 2 different status effect objects of infinite duration to the skill. 1 that governed the proc rate of 25%, and another that depended on the former to trigger the actual Rooting Pain attack. I fixed the bug by changing the second status effect object duration to Instant and thereby avoiding the status conflict.

 

TBH creating the fix was not as much as an issue as not receiving any response to bug report...

Edited July 3, 2018 by mosspit

[araj123]

I expected Monk

 

Wasnt dissappointed

[mosspit]

I expected Monk

 

Wasnt dissappointed

The issue was with the weapon Wahai Poraga, not with Monk's skills. Sorry for the disappointment.

[araj123]

 

I expected Monk

 

Wasnt dissappointed

The issue was with the weapon Wahai Poraga, not with Monk's skills. Sorry for the disappointment.

 

 

Would have been better with Monk

[dunehunter]

 

 

I expected Monk

 

Wasnt dissappointed

The issue was with the weapon Wahai Poraga, not with Monk's skills. Sorry for the disappointment.

Would have been better with Monk

It is, even if the pollaxe doesn’t proc itself, if you have Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming + Wahai Poraga + high acc, it gonna have similar effect because these extra hit on crit proc themselves.

 

Not as jaw dropping as it is now, but still pretty powerful with abilities that reduce deflection like confounding strike.

[mosspit]

 

 

This together with the Rooting Pain fix, I spent about 2hours?

 

I couldn't carry on playing my playthrough due to these bugs so it seems like the most productive thing to do lol

 

sure it is fixed? i thought patch 1.1 mentioned it was fixed. gosh how i wish obsidian has more talented people.

 

The fix I was referring to was with regards to the bug introduced by patch 1.2. I created a bug report at https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103172-bug-12-rooting-pain-no-longer-triggers/ but so far radio silence from Obs.

 

In nerfing the proc rate to Rooting Pain, it resulted in wrongly assigning 2 different status effect objects of infinite duration to the skill. 1 that governed the proc rate of 25%, and another that depended on the former to trigger the actual Rooting Pain attack. I fixed the bug by changing the second status effect object duration to Instant and thereby avoiding the status conflict.

 

TBH creating the fix was not as much as an issue as not receiving any response to bug report...

 

Just an update. Obs fixed the issue and even changed the proc rate to 0.33 instead of 0.25

 

Just checked the

 

"DebugName": "Rooting_Pain_SE_AttackOnApply",

"ID": "3c9bd134-371d-4238-aa6d-b8faeb2a0d19",

 

and in fact the DurationType was indeed changed to Instant. Thanks to for the fix again

[mant2si]

 

 

 

This together with the Rooting Pain fix, I spent about 2hours?

 

I couldn't carry on playing my playthrough due to these bugs so it seems like the most productive thing to do lol

 

sure it is fixed? i thought patch 1.1 mentioned it was fixed. gosh how i wish obsidian has more talented people.

 

The fix I was referring to was with regards to the bug introduced by patch 1.2. I created a bug report at https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103172-bug-12-rooting-pain-no-longer-triggers/ but so far radio silence from Obs.

 

In nerfing the proc rate to Rooting Pain, it resulted in wrongly assigning 2 different status effect objects of infinite duration to the skill. 1 that governed the proc rate of 25%, and another that depended on the former to trigger the actual Rooting Pain attack. I fixed the bug by changing the second status effect object duration to Instant and thereby avoiding the status conflict.

 

TBH creating the fix was not as much as an issue as not receiving any response to bug report...

 

Just an update. Obs fixed the issue and even changed the proc rate to 0.33 instead of 0.25

 

Just checked the

 

"DebugName": "Rooting_Pain_SE_AttackOnApply",

"ID": "3c9bd134-371d-4238-aa6d-b8faeb2a0d19",

 

and in fact the DurationType was indeed changed to Instant. Thanks to for the fix again

 

 

Did you put entire data folder to git repo :D 

[mosspit]

Well no reason to, I only pushed what was necessary. The Wahai Poraga fix seems to be still applicable in 1.2.0.0017 until they take a look at it.