15 level dungeon

[dixon_sider]

If anyone is upset they did not add a 15 layer dungeon like me then please post here. I love the game to death but I always thought the 15 layer dungeon would be a staple of pillars of eternity, and omitting it from the game leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. I understand that the devs are human, and it takes a lot of work to do something like a 15 level dungeon, but I would pay money for a 15 layer dungeon in a heartbeat.

 

I know if there was a 15 layer dungeon in the game then there would be less content somewhere else. But I want to beg obsidain PLEASE make a huge dungeon like in pillars 1. That would be a very nice staple to have and something for the fans to expect in every game, giving people a greater sense of security when deciding if they want to buy the game. For example, if I was to consider buying call of duty 95 and it had zombies, then I would feel more safe about making the purchase because I know zombies will be in the game, and even if the game continues its insanely fast declining quality multiplayer then I would still be able to enjoy the purchase. 

 

Anyone else that would like to see a 15 level dungeon as an expansion?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The second DLC is going to be combat focused and the closest we'll get to a megadungeon, but personally I want sea monsters more than a big dungeon.

[dixon_sider]

The second DLC is going to be combat focused and the closest we'll get to a megadungeon, but personally I want sea monsters more than a big dungeon.

 

Ya that would be cool too. I just feel some type of way about no huge dungeon. The exploration is cool, and the naval stuff is a fun new way to base build. Both are upgrades from the first title imo, but at the expense of a gigantic dungeon? They struck gold in the original pillars with the endless paths. I still feel excited to start a new game to go throught the endless paths again to this day, and I have completed the endless paths over 5 times now. I know anyone can say "then go play pillars 1 again", or "play tower of time then". But I was looking forward to a new endless paths. It just feels somewhat heartbreaking that its not included. My main concern is, who knows when someone will do a dungeon on that level again if Obsidian wont? Add in the fact that it was entirely optional, and the game built around that dungeon was very epic. I fear the endless paths becoming a one hit wonder

Edited June 21, 2018 by dixon_sider

[omgFIREBALLS]

Another Durgan's Battery, yes please. Not another Endless Paths where half the levels were just trash tunnels.

[antman45454]

im happy they didnt add one

 

no mindless braindead dungeon romps for me

 

to much of a grind

Edited June 21, 2018 by antman45454

[try2handing]

I'm not opposed to a hardcore dungeon crawl, but tbh, with the per-encounter-based combat, where you can fight 10 back-to-back encounters without losing any kind of resources, I imagine it would take away part of the thrill of a classic dungeon crawl. This is aside from the fact that the game is too forgiving in general.

 

If this kind of dungeon crawl happens, they really need to take the combat difficulty up a notch, and limit resting, and so on. The idea is to make you feel the pressure of resource management. Otherwise, even with an interesting background story, I can't see how a casual waltz through a 15-level dungeon would be all that exciting.

[the streaker]

I do miss me some Underdark/Deep Roads/Od Nua dungeon slog. There's a time and a place for it, preferably some place that tests your characters' endurance where you can't easily rest and recover after every large battle.

[wRAR]

Not sure if trolling.

[gkathellar]

Absolutely not.

 

Endless Paths was a mess - it was trying to be a spin on Durlag's Tower or Watcher's Keep, but those were actually four floors each, and each floor had a gimmick far more complex and interesting than, "this is the type of monster on this level." By contrast, the Endless Paths had only the bare bones of a narrative, no real puzzles or gimmicks, and fight after fight after fight after fight and I can count the memorable ones on one hand.

 

Mind you, I'm not sure it could have been otherwise. The Kickstarter required it, and a 15-floor dungeon that's actually good would've been pretty much an entirely game's worth of work.

[Mannock]

I'm not so sure about the idea. I'm not against dungeons per se, but I think there are other aspects of the game that could use more time and resources instead.

 

But as a DLC in the future? Sure, but I wouldn't put a pin on the "15 floors", but rather something less but with interesting puzzles and stuff like that.

[Night Stalker]

Personally I enjoyed the Endless Paths, but I don't feel like it was integral part of the game, nor that the devs had made a promise for it to be in the future PoE games.

 

Also, going back to the Fig campaign, the entire Fulvano's Voyage was a replacement for the Endless paths growing strechgoal.

[Purudaya]

Endless Paths was the epitome of a quantity-over-quality development mindset. If I want to play Diablo, I'll play Diablo.

There are some great dungeons in older CRPGs and even the PoE series that I'd love to see them draw inspiration from for the DLCs, though. Watcher's Keep is obviously the gold standard, but Durgan's Battery, Durlag's Tower, or even shorter dungeons like the Temple of Amaunator are great examples.

Most of all, I'd like to see more dungeons in the vein of Splintered Reef, just larger - an island city map that unlocks in stages and set pieces rather than a deep dive that unlocks in bland and repetitive layers. 

 

[E.RedMark]

Another Durgan's Battery, yes please. Not another Endless Paths where half the levels were just trash tunnels.

thats why I didn't care for the endless path...*sigh*...

 

Big deep dungeons are fun if they are well done . But a dungeon where one level is just push this button , kill this and pick that and run back over there and place it..and hope something happen ? Is not fun ! 

 

Give meh diablo 1 dungeon like ! yeah sure..some level didn't have much to them . But damn , it had more atmosphere and scaryness then the endless path ever did ! By the time I got to the dragon..I was mostly bored...

[algroth]

I greatly enjoyed the Endless Paths myself, but I don't exactly miss it in this game either. But I wouldn't mind a big Watcher's Keep/Durlag's Tower-type dungeon in an expansion either.

Edited June 21, 2018 by algroth

[dixon_sider]

To anyone that says they disliked the endless paths, thats great, everyone has their own opinion. But I felt like the endless paths was a carrying mechanic to the game. That is what set it so far above BG1, BG2, dragon age, and all the others. The resource management wasnt really there because you could just rest for free an infinite number of times but the feeling of going through that dungeon for the first time was one of the greatest video game experiences I have ever had. I feel very heartbroken that it may possibly not have a follow-up.

 

Also one of the great things about it was that it was not essential in any way shape or form. You could jut ignore the endless paths all game long and nothing bad will happen. I understand people dislike it, but thats ok, you dont need to do it or enjoy it. I despise base building and find it tedious, and something I will NEVER be good at. I ignore it in every game. When i play terraria every house I make is all minimum requirements and as out of the way as possible. But I would never say they shouldnt have base building in pillars. It would literally mean nothing to me if I never got to upgrade my ship, or upgrade my castle in the first one. But its there and I just dont do it. For some people, without it, the game is nowhere near as fun. Just like without a mega dungeon, the game loses a LOT of potential for me.

[AeonsLegend]

To anyone that says they disliked the endless paths, thats great, everyone has their own opinion. But I felt like the endless paths was a carrying mechanic to the game. That is what set it so far above BG1, BG2, dragon age, and all the others. The resource management wasnt really there because you could just rest for free an infinite number of times but the feeling of going through that dungeon for the first time was one of the greatest video game experiences I have ever had. I feel very heartbroken that it may possibly not have a follow-up.

 

Also one of the great things about it was that it was not essential in any way shape or form. You could jut ignore the endless paths all game long and nothing bad will happen. I understand people dislike it, but thats ok, you dont need to do it or enjoy it. I despise base building and find it tedious, and something I will NEVER be good at. I ignore it in every game. When i play terraria every house I make is all minimum requirements and as out of the way as possible. But I would never say they shouldnt have base building in pillars. It would literally mean nothing to me if I never got to upgrade my ship, or upgrade my castle in the first one. But its there and I just dont do it. For some people, without it, the game is nowhere near as fun. Just like without a mega dungeon, the game loses a LOT of potential for me.

BG1 and BG2 had similar areas. Durlags Tower comes to mind. It was fun, but nothing that made the game worthwhile. At least the BG versions had a story to it other than "Head to the lowest level and beat a boss".

[Wormerine]

Not really, certainly not 15. After the raise in difficulty I find dungeons much more satisfying, as combat encounters actually take time and attention. 

I would take 3 or 4 level deep dungeon, like Durgan's Battery, over Endless Paths of Boredom. 

The couple more traditional dungeons were great

Woedica's Sanctum, underwater one, ruins

, and I would welcome more.

[AeonsLegend]

Not really, certainly not 15. After the raise in difficulty I find dungeons much more satisfying, as combat encounters actually take time and attention. 

 

I would take 3 or 4 level deep dungeon, like Durgan's Battery, over Endless Paths of Boredom. 

 

The couple more traditional dungeons were great

Woedica's Sanctum, underwater one, ruins

, and I would welcome more.

Well I didn't say it had 15, but they are similar. I think BGIi had multiple different similar areas. One where you end up in a tieflings/spirits/demons/devils area and you have to wander around making pacts with them and either kill them or let them kill eachother. I don't remember how big they were because it's been a while. There's also another area in BGII, might be ToB that had a huge statue at the end of the dungeon you had to fight.

[Wormerine]

 

Not really, certainly not 15. After the raise in difficulty I find dungeons much more satisfying, as combat encounters actually take time and attention. 

 

I would take 3 or 4 level deep dungeon, like Durgan's Battery, over Endless Paths of Boredom. 

 

The couple more traditional dungeons were great

Woedica's Sanctum, underwater one, ruins

, and I would welcome more.

Well I didn't say it had 15, but they are similar. I think BGIi had multiple different similar areas. One where you end up in a tieflings/spirits/demons/devils area and you have to wander around making pacts with them and either kill them or let them kill eachother. I don't remember how big they were because it's been a while. There's also another area in BGII, might be ToB that had a huge statue at the end of the dungeon you had to fight.

Durlag's Tower and Watcher's Keep were pretty awesome. Watcher's keep was 5 level deep + boss fight and Durlag's Tower was 4 level deep + boss fight. That said, maps tended to be more sprawling and varied in style of WM's dungeons. 

[Taevyr]

Half the fun of a good Dungeon crawl is planning your rests/resources so you can make it through in one run, so they'd need to add some mechanic to replicate that. It's also why Durgan's battery beats the Endless Paths: both have decent, on-going stories, but the first can be done in a single run, while the Paths were designed to be done in stages as you level, which also spread the story rather thin. I enjoyed the Paths as a combat dungeon, but they weren't the epic expedition you have in Durgan's Battery.

 

Places like the underwater dungeon, the island with Wael's dungeon and Splintered Reef all give that same feel of an expedition into the unknown, but I'd like some more puzzles (Wael's was just the right combination of ingenuity and frustration) and resource management other than "stock some captain's banquet to steamroll fampyr's". If the choice is between several smaller dungeons or a single huge one, I'd pick the smaller ones.

 

As for the combat-themed DLC, they could limit food availability during the DLC to dissuade constant resting, even if I'll still miss the old endurance/health system.

[cokane]

Half the fun of a good Dungeon crawl is planning your rests/resources so you can make it through in one run, so they'd need to add some mechanic to replicate that. It's also why Durgan's battery beats the Endless Paths: both have decent, on-going stories, but the first can be done in a single run, while the Paths were designed to be done in stages as you level, which also spread the story rather thin. I enjoyed the Paths as a combat dungeon, but they weren't the epic expedition you have in Durgan's Battery.

 

Places like the underwater dungeon, the island with Wael's dungeon and Splintered Reef all give that same feel of an expedition into the unknown, but I'd like some more puzzles (Wael's was just the right combination of ingenuity and frustration) and resource management other than "stock some captain's banquet to steamroll fampyr's". If the choice is between several smaller dungeons or a single huge one, I'd pick the smaller ones.

 

As for the combat-themed DLC, they could limit food availability during the DLC to dissuade constant resting, even if I'll still miss the old endurance/health system.

Agreed with most everything, except I think you're selling endless paths a tad short. It actually works as multiple expeditions if you try and push your party to the next master staircase area. I want to also co-sign the fact that long dungeons just aren't quite the same in Deadfire, even if they had them, due to the scrapping the old systems.

[Taevyr]

 

Half the fun of a good Dungeon crawl is planning your rests/resources so you can make it through in one run, so they'd need to add some mechanic to replicate that. It's also why Durgan's battery beats the Endless Paths: both have decent, on-going stories, but the first can be done in a single run, while the Paths were designed to be done in stages as you level, which also spread the story rather thin. I enjoyed the Paths as a combat dungeon, but they weren't the epic expedition you have in Durgan's Battery.

 

Places like the underwater dungeon, the island with Wael's dungeon and Splintered Reef all give that same feel of an expedition into the unknown, but I'd like some more puzzles (Wael's was just the right combination of ingenuity and frustration) and resource management other than "stock some captain's banquet to steamroll fampyr's". If the choice is between several smaller dungeons or a single huge one, I'd pick the smaller ones.

 

As for the combat-themed DLC, they could limit food availability during the DLC to dissuade constant resting, even if I'll still miss the old endurance/health system.

Agreed with most everything, except I think you're selling endless paths a tad short. It actually works as multiple expeditions if you try and push your party to the next master staircase area. I want to also co-sign the fact that long dungeons just aren't quite the same in Deadfire, even if they had them, due to the scrapping the old systems.

 

The paths were certainly fun as multiple expeditions, and pushing your party's half that fun. However, it also broke up the few tidbits of story in each level of the paths even more and made it a lot less cohesive as a dungeon (insofar as it was cohesive). As i said, it's a good combat dungeon, but it missed the feeling of a single, cohesive expedition as it's simply not designed that way.

 

I understand that many players dislike arbitrary attrition and nobody likes "thrash mobs", but I love seeing my party slowly get ground down by a dungeon as I progress deeper, while planning how to use my limited rests, especially when doing a dungeon for the first time. It's something I really enjoyed in Durgan's battery, and it's missing completely in Deadfire.

[dixon_sider]

 

 

Half the fun of a good Dungeon crawl is planning your rests/resources so you can make it through in one run, so they'd need to add some mechanic to replicate that. It's also why Durgan's battery beats the Endless Paths: both have decent, on-going stories, but the first can be done in a single run, while the Paths were designed to be done in stages as you level, which also spread the story rather thin. I enjoyed the Paths as a combat dungeon, but they weren't the epic expedition you have in Durgan's Battery.

 

Places like the underwater dungeon, the island with Wael's dungeon and Splintered Reef all give that same feel of an expedition into the unknown, but I'd like some more puzzles (Wael's was just the right combination of ingenuity and frustration) and resource management other than "stock some captain's banquet to steamroll fampyr's". If the choice is between several smaller dungeons or a single huge one, I'd pick the smaller ones.

 

As for the combat-themed DLC, they could limit food availability during the DLC to dissuade constant resting, even if I'll still miss the old endurance/health system.

Agreed with most everything, except I think you're selling endless paths a tad short. It actually works as multiple expeditions if you try and push your party to the next master staircase area. I want to also co-sign the fact that long dungeons just aren't quite the same in Deadfire, even if they had them, due to the scrapping the old systems.

 

The paths were certainly fun as multiple expeditions, and pushing your party's half that fun. However, it also broke up the few tidbits of story in each level of the paths even more and made it a lot less cohesive as a dungeon (insofar as it was cohesive). As i said, it's a good combat dungeon, but it missed the feeling of a single, cohesive expedition as it's simply not designed that way.

 

I understand that many players dislike arbitrary attrition and nobody likes "thrash mobs", but I love seeing my party slowly get ground down by a dungeon as I progress deeper, while planning how to use my limited rests, especially when doing a dungeon for the first time. It's something I really enjoyed in Durgan's battery, and it's missing completely in Deadfire.

 

 

Its purpose was to be something you cant complete in a single run. Or if you wait until you are high level then you can but it will take a couple days (for first time attempting it). I agree that it sucks having to leave the dungeon to level up elsewhere though. I did not feel like the first pillars had very good resource management however. There were so many spells you can cast per rest its almost impossible to use them all before people get below their max endurance threshold. I ended up just resting after every other fight anyways, but I would have to go back to town every 3rd rest to get the buffs and more camping supplies. Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management imo, and camping supplies are dirt cheap even in the very beginning of the game. The rest system in pillars 1 is the only thing i would mod out if i had to choose. make everything per encounter and remove health completely. Which thankfully pillars 2 did

Edited June 21, 2018 by dixon_sider

[Crucis]

For what it's worth, another great dungeon that's being overlooked was the IWD1 free expansion, Trials of the Luremaster (IIRC).  That dungeon made playing IWD1 really worth playing over and over again, just to play that dungeon.

 

As for the original post, I don't need a full-on FIFTEEN level dungeon.  But a nice large one could be nice.

 

I will say that it's possible that given the island nature of the Deadfire region, a super deep traditional dungeon may not feel "realistic".  But that doesn't mean that some sort of large underground area of some sort wouldn't be possible.  For example, something like the Underdark might be doable. Also, while many islands in the Deadfire don't seem all that large, a few are.  Nekataka.  That island in the south central area that the Black Isle Bassturds were near is another.  Islands like those could be large enough to support much significant underground complexes than were in the game.  Heck, one might even argue that the city of Nekataka could have supported a MUCH larger "old city" area, possibly even an area BELOW that old city region.

 

I guess that this is definitely a gripe of mine, the lack of any significant dungeon/underground complex, or even a tall tower that begged to be explored.  But on top of that, there were too many places that were simply too damned small.  Just 1 or possibly 2 small maps to the entire "complex".  Kind of leaves you feeling like you want to say "that's it?"

Edited June 22, 2018 by Crucis

[Abel]

I suppose many people remember Spellhold. Spellhold had varied areas, puzzles, track and backtrack. Since i would not rest in a dungeon (my characters are not up to suicide, especially when Bodhi is on their trail), i would generally end up at the end of the dungeon, meeting Bodhi with an exhausted party. All badly injured, with barely any healing left, or any spell. Oh... boy, she kicked my ass so many times lol. But this is what made the whole thing worthwile. Resource management is extremely important in any game which have dungeon crawling and such. I don't think an other Endless Paths would be any more than a borefest with this auto healing/replenish abilities each encounter crap Pillars 2 gives.

 

I did not dislike Endless Paths. I never finished it (lvl 10 i guess) since i never finished the game. But i did not dislike Endless Paths. The thing that i disliked most regarding it, was that there was basically an army under your Stronghold. The backstory of the place tells you that your stronghold should be invaded and that you have to take care of the problem fast. But truthfully... Once you have opened the paths to the undergrounds, the mobs will just wait in their respective level. Wait for you to come and grind. THIS was stupid. And this is the one thing i really disliked about the whole dungeon.

 

There should have been massive invasions of the Stronghold if you failed to lock the way. There is a specific level of the Endless paths with a locked door leading to levels below. I used it as my excuse to delay further exploration for a long while. Thank god the door existed. But then, you have these shortcuts... :s