So is 1.1 Really the End of Days?

[JerekKruger]

The End of Days? Let's consult Revelations:

 

I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

 

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the Nerf and the Buff. I am the Balancing One; it was easy, and now look, it's quite hard again, for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of nerfing and buffing.

I guess it is, I guess it is.

[evilcat]

There are things which most people agree that it is broken, overpowered, or over the borders "how powerful things should be".

 

And there are things which was just powerful enought to be worth slot, level point or cast time. It is even worse if instead of some small tune down to general power drop it is nerfed hard.

Like Body Attuned, i could stop using it, and relay on chanter/druid armour strippers. Spend focus on Detonation more why not. Just how does it make game any better?

[AeonsLegend]

 

We don't really want this.

[Myrtillo]

 

 

 

This is what i have been highlighting where obsidian are just plan lazy and incompetent. Make the game harder by other means like revisting encounters, adding more enemy variation, adjusting more hitpoints/defense, smarter AI instead of nerfing recovery, skill, talents, procs and interesting game mechanics. They are just scouting the forum on the builds and then nerf the hell out of it. I'm sure there are other undiscovered powerful builds where veterans are not reveling to not hit the nerf bat

 

 

No matter how well you re-tune encounters, if one effect type is plain better than the other options (which was imo the case with -recovery), it is always going to eclipse the others.

Recovery and action speed are the two stats that are universally useful in every action every character takes, and the values were too high for how much potency these effects bring to the table.

 

I'm all for better AI and ennemy variety. But I don't see how you put recovery in line with everything else in the game without nerfing it.

[theBalthazar]

At the origin, for me the real problems was :

 

- Absurd empower. (done)

- L3 inspiration of chanter (brilliant). (...Supressed : p)

 

After that, that was already -minor- problems "overall"... -Subtle- nerf was needed : p

Cleave stance : 2 per encounter OR primary attack AND without auto-trigger.

Edited June 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

[AeonsLegend]

 

 

 

 

This is what i have been highlighting where obsidian are just plan lazy and incompetent. Make the game harder by other means like revisting encounters, adding more enemy variation, adjusting more hitpoints/defense, smarter AI instead of nerfing recovery, skill, talents, procs and interesting game mechanics. They are just scouting the forum on the builds and then nerf the hell out of it. I'm sure there are other undiscovered powerful builds where veterans are not reveling to not hit the nerf bat

 

 

No matter how well you re-tune encounters, if one effect type is plain better than the other options (which was imo the case with -recovery), it is always going to eclipse the others.

Recovery and action speed are the two stats that are universally useful in every action every character takes, and the values were too high for how much potency these effects bring to the table.

 

I'm all for better AI and ennemy variety. But I don't see how you put recovery in line with everything else in the game without nerfing it.

 

Better AI and enemy variation is not going to make all classes/builds equal. In fact it is better if they are more unequal, but better at something specifically. This way you are forced to bring an entire party with a decent setup rather than focussing on a single build. Is this thwarting all those solo players? Yes. Will it improve the game? Yes.

[zendingo]

It also means that you can heal more, cc more, interrupt more, reposition more, use more consumables, overall have a better chance to be able to use that critical ability at the critical moment, and these are the things that actually make the game too easy.

 

This is the attitude that I hope Obsidian doesn't have. The game presents the player with challenges and gives them tools to face those challenges. But according to this, if the player can actually use the right tool in the right situation, that makes the game too easy?

 

Good game design is to prevent the player from using the tools the game provides until it's too late?

 

Unresponsiveness is good game play? I should be punished because I didn't sit there passively doing nothing so that I wouldn't be in recovery so I could finally use an ability at that critical moment?

 

No thank you.

 

Honestly, as many others have said, players on the whole do want a challenge, but they want the challenge to give the feeling that it is coming from defeating powerful enemies. They don't want the challenge to feel like it comes from the players being weak and inept. They want to be part of a clash of the titans, not a clash of the wet noodles. That is why so many wish for buffs to enemies rather than nerfs to players. In my opinion.

[Lokithecat]

If you are finding that all of your party is acting too slowly and you're bored with waiting for everything, just run the combat in fast mode...

 

I'll often queue up a series of actions or self buffs, then jump to quick mode while it all ticks through.  As far as 'oe noe you are wrecked my game I are hate you sooo much' nonsense, hopefully the developers have a convenient way of just flagging those accounts, and being able to ignore everything they post.

 

Maybe they over did changes, maybe there's a longer term plan involved with the upcoming changes... but seriously losing your **** over a beta version of a patch is just ridiculous.  Its not even the actual patch, just a 'test' patch...   "We are intentionally sending them to the beta branch before they have been fully tested, so big issues may occur."  ​As far as anyone knows right now, they just randomly decided that % drop was put in, and they are just trying to make sure that the reduction works properly, without exploding the game.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Lokithecat

[Kykuy]

As much as i hate meaningless whine, accepting some meaningless BS which the devs expect us to perceive as "balance" with joy is even worse. If they wanted to shield themselves from crying, they should have utilized the Early Access function, as Larian did with DOS2. 

 

Adding a bunch of enemies with ridiculous damage and HP(Gorecci street, i am looking at you), instead of fine tuning of AI is not good balance. Nerfing the **** out of already somewhat crippled 2H(WotEP, Falcon's Helm) is not good balance.

 

Removing chain proccing is a good balance, on the other hand. Making Ranger's life easier is also a good one.

[dunehunter]

On the other side, with the enemy in PoTD getting +2 armor buff, doesn’t this mean a Devoted with penetrating strike will stand out? They still had good abilities that cost 1 source, aren’t they?

[AeonsLegend]

Adding a bunch of enemies with ridiculous damage and HP(Gorecci street, i am looking at you), instead of fine tuning of AI is not good balance. Nerfing the **** out of already somewhat crippled 2H(WotEP, Falcon's Helm) is not good balance.

I actually enjoyed that fight. Was probably one of the few that presented a challenge. Required some tactics other than the usual just activate abiltiy x and y and watch it roll out.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

On the other side, with the enemy in PoTD getting +2 armor buff, doesn’t this mean a Devoted with penetrating strike will stand out? They still had good abilities that cost 1 source, aren’t they?

 

Penetrating Strike is still good, yeah. Did they touch Disciplined Barrage/Disciplined Strikes? That was sort of the Fighter's "signature move" and was one of the reasons why it multiclassed so well with so many other classes. 

[theBalthazar]

 +2 armor buff, doesn’t this mean a Devoted with penetrating strike will stand out

 

 

Yes, of course. But a berserker can also do that. A monk too. He stay viable. But even if a class is not optimal, my main issue is more "never the best by comparison".

 

Penetrating strike is very good. But now, Paladin and rogue do better.  (penetration 2 + -5 dex affliction + 25 % of damage ; AND 10 accuracy 20 % fire damage and others bonus)

 

Did they touch Disciplined Barrage/Disciplined Strikes? That was sort of the Fighter's "signature move" and was one of the reasons why it multiclassed so well with so many other classes. 

 

 

All depend when you play the game. Beta 1 ? Because there was a nerf of 50 % -> 25 % of Disciplined strike (hit to crit).

Edited June 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

[AndreaColombo]

If you are finding that all of your party is acting too slowly and you're bored with waiting for everything, just run the combat in fast mode...

 

 

Maybe they over did changes, maybe there's a longer term plan involved with the upcoming changes... but seriously losing your **** over a beta version of a patch is just ridiculous.  Its not even the actual patch, just a 'test' patch...   "We are intentionally sending them to the beta branch before they have been fully tested, so big issues may occur."  ​As far as anyone knows right now, they just randomly decided that % drop was put in, and they are just trying to make sure that the reduction works properly, without exploding the game.

 

 

And in your opinion, criticizing the developers' choice = loosing one's ****?

 

You said it yourself: The patch is in beta so they can gather feedback from users. This is our feedback. I'm sorry it is not to your liking, I guess?

 

 

Increasing the speed of combat via a slider is not the same as reducing recovery. The slider makes everything faster, not just recovery; the end result is a Benny Hill Show effect where recovery is still too long relative to everything else. I doubt anybody would like to play like that.

 

As it stands, none of the changes to recovery make any sense. Then again, so doesn't the nerf to Baubles of the Fin or Wildstrike. Or the way the chant that used to grant Brilliant was "fixed."

Edited June 3, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[dunehunter]

Plain FoD would not do so good in PoTD because u have to wait until Scion of Flame to get 1 pen. Comparing Cripple Strike with Penetration strike, I think both are fine, can’t say which is more superior. Cripple strike is better when updated for sure.

[theBalthazar]

Except if you access to a second class that give that, like berserker. After that penetration is less useful if there is a critical hit.

 

And accuracy give indirectly penetration by critical. We Need calculation : p

Edited June 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Seroster01]

I mean, it's certainly not the end of the world; as has been said, there will be more patches.  But I had spent a lot of time & effort combing through the wikis & game files about items/abilities/mechanics and finally decided on a class/build I was happy with and had just started my playthrough.  Now both the classes I picked for my Multiclass (Nalpazca/Soul Blade) got significantly nerfed.  Along with that, as far as I can determine they nerfed every single item I was going to use (Chromoprismatic staff, 2h helm, etc.).  Now, maybe I can beat the whole game before the patch goes live if I un-install the Beta and marathon it?  But I don't like feeling rushed in a game, I try to do everything available in a single playthrough.

 

It's pretty disappointing to me personally because I invested a couple of weeks into researching the nitty gritty details of the build I wanted to make, and now it's worse in every aspect I can think of.  Shouldn't that feel disappointing? I tend to understand balance patches when they are comprised of give & take, buffing under-performing things & nerfing the over-performing ones.  Instead, this patch nerfs everything related to the build I wanted and replaces it with nothing.  If that ain't a kick in the nuts, IDK what is.  

[ntbittle]

I mean, it's certainly not the end of the world; as has been said, there will be more patches.  But I had spent a lot of time & effort combing through the wikis & game files about items/abilities/mechanics and finally decided on a class/build I was happy with and had just started my playthrough.  Now both the classes I picked for my Multiclass (Nalpazca/Soul Blade) got significantly nerfed.  Along with that, as far as I can determine they nerfed every single item I was going to use (Chromoprismatic staff, 2h helm, etc.).  Now, maybe I can beat the whole game before the patch goes live if I un-install the Beta and marathon it?  But I don't like feeling rushed in a game, I try to do everything available in a single playthrough.

 

It's pretty disappointing to me personally because I invested a couple of weeks into researching the nitty gritty details of the build I wanted to make, and now it's worse in every aspect I can think of.  Shouldn't that feel disappointing? I tend to understand balance patches when they are comprised of give & take, buffing under-performing things & nerfing the over-performing ones.  Instead, this patch nerfs everything related to the build I wanted and replaces it with nothing.  If that ain't a kick in the nuts, IDK what is.  

 

So what you are saying is that you spend weeks looking into one of the most powerful and broken builds and are now disappointed when it is no longer?

 

And without even trying it out and see if it is actually so underpowered against the rest of the game, you are giving up on it? 

 

Monks were so overpowered at launch they mad the entire game easy mode.  They needed a nerf.

Edited June 3, 2018 by ntbittle

[theBalthazar]

Andrea colombo is right.

 

Brilliant was problematic. We are all more or less OK for that.

 

But here he is simply erased. Weird. Perhaps it is temporary, perhaps not. ALL this game is temporary since Obsidian will finish his game at version 4.0. (after 3 DLC)

 

So yeah, during this TIME, people PLAY the game. If not, your are like boeroer or sometimes like me, or others, where you hesitate to create a build with the fear of constant changes.

 

People who like play with optimal style feel often like this. Play a RPG like this is an investment in time. A lot of hours to grow up your team.

 

And personnally, I am not annoyed by an ability which is more viable or more optimal. But I think to the classes : My ex-team have 3 fighter for 10 possibilities (All in multiclass 10/2 = 5 characters) My actual team count 0 / 10 fighter. So... Question to myself... Why you do that Balthazar ?

 

- Fighter has no longer any function that interests me. Simple : p

 

And I love diversity. Ideally I hate to take the same class x5. But for that, the gameplay and balancing must be at level.

Edited June 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

[AeonsLegend]

 

I mean, it's certainly not the end of the world; as has been said, there will be more patches.  But I had spent a lot of time & effort combing through the wikis & game files about items/abilities/mechanics and finally decided on a class/build I was happy with and had just started my playthrough.  Now both the classes I picked for my Multiclass (Nalpazca/Soul Blade) got significantly nerfed.  Along with that, as far as I can determine they nerfed every single item I was going to use (Chromoprismatic staff, 2h helm, etc.).  Now, maybe I can beat the whole game before the patch goes live if I un-install the Beta and marathon it?  But I don't like feeling rushed in a game, I try to do everything available in a single playthrough.

 

It's pretty disappointing to me personally because I invested a couple of weeks into researching the nitty gritty details of the build I wanted to make, and now it's worse in every aspect I can think of.  Shouldn't that feel disappointing? I tend to understand balance patches when they are comprised of give & take, buffing under-performing things & nerfing the over-performing ones.  Instead, this patch nerfs everything related to the build I wanted and replaces it with nothing.  If that ain't a kick in the nuts, IDK what is.  

 

So what you are saying is that you spend weeks looking into one of the most powerful and broken builds and are now disappointed when it is no longer?

 

And without even trying it out and see if it is actually so underpowered against the rest of the game, you are giving up on it? 

 

Monks were so overpowered at launch they mad the entire game easy mode.  They needed a nerf.

 

He said a build he "liked". Doesn't imply powerful.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Andrea colombo is right.

 

Brilliant was problematic. We are all more or less OK for that.

 

But here he is simply erased. Weird. Perhaps it is temporary, perhaps not. ALL this game is temporary since Obsidian will finish his game at version 4.0. (after 3 DLC)

 

So yeah, during this TIME, people PLAY the game. If not, your are like boeroer or sometimes like me, or others, where you hesitate to create a build with the fear of constant changes.

 

People who like play with optimal style feel often like this. Play a RPG like this is an investment in time. A lot of hours to grow up your team.

 

And personnally, I am not annoyed by an ability which is more viable or more optimal. But I think to the classes : My ex-team have 3 fighter for 10 possibilities (All in multiclass 10/2 = 5 characters) My actual team count 0 / 10 fighter. So... Question to myself... Why you do that Balthazar ?

 

- Fighter has no longer any function that interests me. Simple : p

 

And I love diversity. Ideally I hate to take the same class x5. But for that, the gameplay and balancing must be at level.

 

What do you mean by Fighter losing function or signature moves? Charge? Cleaving Stance? 

[BalkothTheFeared]

Pro 1.02 strats, equip both blunderbusses that deal AOE damage. Charge all over the map and watch explosions happen!

 

I'm gonna miss that.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Pro 1.02 strats, equip both blunderbusses that deal AOE damage. Charge all over the map and watch explosions happen!

 

I'm gonna miss that.

 

I mean, frankly that sounds amazing, lol. 

[AeonsLegend]

Let's look at D&D which has some of the most complex class and multiclass systems of any game currently available. What spot is the fighter in? It is almost always used as either a minor multiclass or an even multiclass. This is because of stats, feats and the ability to wield more weapons/armor, nothing more. There is no specific fighting style and a pure fighter class usually does very poorly unless he is in a high enchantment world. And even then there are so many more better options than a pure fighter. In the end though. Is fighter bad? No. But is it interesting? No. I think by far the POE fighter is more interesting than a fighter in D&D, even more so in POEII. Are there better options? Perhaps yes and maybe after 1.1 he is weaker and only viable as multiclass if you want to min max or play for efficiency. 

 

The problem is not that the fighter is going to be worse, the problem is that it doesn't have it's own role to play that some other class can't do as well.

[Amentep]

I've just deleted some sniping about what is whining and who does it. This isn't what this forum is about. You don't like what someone says, argue against what they say. Not them.