The Dragon Tarshed modding question - how much dmg is good?

[Voltron]

So I modded chant The Dragon Tarshed since it's trash right now and we all know it- it went from god-like to total poop in PoE2. So I want to change that but not make it broken.

 

I increased damage to 10 as base and at lvl 18 of War Caller it was dealing around 16-18 dmg per tick to enemies.

Side Note: Funny thing that The Dragon Tarshed proc Cleave stance if it kills enemy. Which could lead to nice synergy for War Caller if this chant wasn't trash to begin with.

 

So what do you guys think about this damage now? Enough or should be higher? Maybe 15 base so It can be useful for pure chanters?

Let me know your opinion of how much damage you would like to see from The Dragon Tarshed in PoE2.

[Voltron]

Ok,

 

So after my testing at 19 level it deals now around 20-26 dmg depends on enemy. Which is imo very good for constant offensive chant, but nowhere near what normal spells/melee can do at that level, but it makes difference.

What is better is that you can double that dmg with Troubadour linger which is imo nice touch for offensive troubadour as it gives him unique offensive option.

So far I am please with my tests and will probably soon post this mod on nexus.

#MakeDragonTarshedGreatAgain.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Voltron

[Kykuy]

So, does it scale with PL? Can you change the scaling? If yes, i think that 10 base(assuming 5 fire + 5 crash) and +10% per PL is adequate for something which can be kept indefinitely in a quite large AOE. It also looks that it doesn't account for penetration, which is good.

[gkathellar]

Whatever you decide, it needs to be somewhat more than Soft Winds of Death, because Soft Winds is Raw damage. Maybe math it out so that Dragon Thrashed specifically rewards Might specialization better than Soft Winds does, for build variety?

 

Edit: My brain did a stupid.

Edited June 1, 2018 by gkathellar

[Kykuy]

All chants in POE2 have the same "singing" and linger duration, don't they?

[Alhoon]

All chants in POE2 have the same "singing" and linger duration, don't they?

Yes.

[dunehunter]

Well u modded it, set whatever number u like, maybe go 999

[Ganrich]

Well u modded it, set whatever number u like, maybe go 999

 

Yeah, set it for whatever in your mod.  If it is where you want it at 10 damage then keep it there. 

 

I wouldn't expect 10 per hit in an official patch, but I think it needs 6 or 8 per tick for sure.  I don't want it to be the end all be all Chant like PoE1.  I also think for something like Dragon Thrashed,  that just requires a minor damage tweak, is something not to worry about until after they tune up Veteran/PotD.   Once they have fixed the difficulty then I would look at it as we don't know if they will tweak AR or Immunities for the difficulty fix, and those things will play into what the phrase needs to be competitive. 

[Kaylon]

Keeping the same damage as in PoE1 I think is ok - you can even name your mod PoE1 Dragon Trashed

[Voltron]

Well u modded it, set whatever number u like, maybe go 999

 

Yeah, but I want others to use it, unless you really think Obsidian will balance it before POE VI will come out which I don't belive.

 

So I am asking here what numer you would like to see to make TDT viable and balanced to pick and run.

 

So far 10 dmg base get 20-26 dmg per tick on 19 level. What do you think about that? Imo compare to 70-80 per attack I get from Charge or 99-130 per offensive invocation at this level- it looks good. But I want to know different opinion about that.

 

Because if we just want to wait for Obsidian to blance every single thing that needs buff/nerf in this game- prepare for POE3 release first.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Voltron

[Clerith]

Yeah, when I was thinking about it earlier, I thought 10-15 base would be good. It's a passive big foe only aoe, which makes it super convenient and therefore the damage can't be too big, but you gotta keep those 100+ charges and wizard aoes that clear encounters in a matter of seconds. You also gotta keep in mind how far you can boost it with all the fire power level stuff.

 

I'd be pretty happy with it if it did 25-30 damage per tick at max level max gears.

[mosspit]

Must be because of that showcase of the playthrough with 6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters...

[Voltron]

Must be because of that showcase of the playthrough with 6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters...

 

Not different that 6 Nature Godlikes Fighters/Paladins with Cleave/Mob Stance you could do now. I guess whole screen would explode faster then Hiroshima.

Based on that everything should be nerfed to ground.

[mosspit]

 

Must be because of that showcase of the playthrough with 6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters...

 

Not different that 6 Nature Godlikes Fighters/Paladins with Cleave/Mob Stance you could do now. I guess whole screen would explode faster then Hiroshima.

Based on that everything should be nerfed to ground.

 

And chances are that "everything" will be nerfed, wouldn't it?

Edited June 2, 2018 by mosspit

[dunehunter]

 

 

Must be because of that showcase of the playthrough with 6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters...

 

Not different that 6 Nature Godlikes Fighters/Paladins with Cleave/Mob Stance you could do now. I guess whole screen would explode faster then Hiroshima.

Based on that everything should be nerfed to ground.

 

And chances are that "everything" will be nerfed, wouldn't it?

 

 

Cleave is untouched. Charge is changed from Full Attack to Stun. Paladin Faith and Conviction nerfed from 10 to 8, Deep Faith 5->2.

Edited June 2, 2018 by dunehunter

[mosspit]

Well if the Nature's Godlike nerf is not enough to stop that combo, I guess carry on petitioning till obs nerf it?

 

Btw my original comment on "6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters" was the the playthrough done on PoE1 where a poster (I think it was Raven) just used a party of 6 Dragon Thrashed Moon Godlike chanters and stomping through all the content. Most of time without using any actions. Just in case there was any misunderstanding...

Edited June 2, 2018 by mosspit

[Voltron]

 

 

 

Must be because of that showcase of the playthrough with 6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters...

 

Not different that 6 Nature Godlikes Fighters/Paladins with Cleave/Mob Stance you could do now. I guess whole screen would explode faster then Hiroshima.

Based on that everything should be nerfed to ground.

 

And chances are that "everything" will be nerfed, wouldn't it?

 

 

Cleave is untouched. Charge is changed from Full Attack to Stun. Paladin Faith and Conviction nerfed from 10 to 8, Deep Faith 5->2.

 

Not in my version :D. I agree with Charge and Conviction nerfs, already copied that changes into older files. But not with deep Faith nerfs so I will skip those.

 

Good that monk is nerfed though, gonna have to copy that changes too.

[Voltron]

Well if the Nature's Godlike nerf is not enough to stop that combo, I guess carry on petitioning till obs nerf it?

 

Btw my original comment on "6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters" was the the playthrough done on PoE1 where a poster (I think it was Raven) just used a party of 6 Dragon Thrashed Moon Godlike chanters and stomping through all the content. Most of time without using any actions. Just in case there was any misunderstanding...

 

We know, we have been there :D

[JerekKruger]

Whatever you decide, it needs to be somewhat more than Soft Winds of Death, because Soft Winds is Raw damage.

It's worth noting that Raw damage is a lot less powerful in Deadfire than it was in Pillars. In Pillars Raw damage (almost) always did more damage in comparison to non-Raw damage due to there (usually) being a DR value to bypass. In Deadfire, if you have enough Penetration, non-Raw damage does full damage just like Raw, and if you can over penetrate it actually does more damage than Raw (Raw damage attacks can't over penetrate). Given how easy it is to reach full penetration against most enemies, this negates the benefit of Raw damage in a lot of cases.

 

I get the feeling Obsidian didn't take this into account when setting Raw damage values. There are a couple of unique weapons that do Raw damage, and they have significantly lower base damage than their non-Raw counterparts. This made a lot of sense in Pillars where you could face enemies like Adra Beetles which had at least 9 DR and, often, 18+ DR, but in Deadfire it makes a lot less sense.

[mosspit]

 

Well if the Nature's Godlike nerf is not enough to stop that combo, I guess carry on petitioning till obs nerf it?

 

Btw my original comment on "6 Dragon Thrashed moon godlike chanters" was the the playthrough done on PoE1 where a poster (I think it was Raven) just used a party of 6 Dragon Thrashed Moon Godlike chanters and stomping through all the content. Most of time without using any actions. Just in case there was any misunderstanding...

 

We know, we have been there :D

 

So what was the point of your reply to my original comment?

Edited June 2, 2018 by mosspit

[Clerith]

 

Whatever you decide, it needs to be somewhat more than Soft Winds of Death, because Soft Winds is Raw damage.

It's worth noting that Raw damage is a lot less powerful in Deadfire than it was in Pillars. In Pillars Raw damage (almost) always did more damage in comparison to non-Raw damage due to there (usually) being a DR value to bypass. In Deadfire, if you have enough Penetration, non-Raw damage does full damage just like Raw, and if you can over penetrate it actually does more damage than Raw (Raw damage attacks can't over penetrate). Given how easy it is to reach full penetration against most enemies, this negates the benefit of Raw damage in a lot of cases.

 

I get the feeling Obsidian didn't take this into account when setting Raw damage values. There are a couple of unique weapons that do Raw damage, and they have significantly lower base damage than their non-Raw counterparts. This made a lot of sense in Pillars where you could face enemies like Adra Beetles which had at least 9 DR and, often, 18+ DR, but in Deadfire it makes a lot less sense.

 

True, elemental damage is better than raw when overpenetrating, especially in the case of weapon lashes, but you're not going to be overpenetrating with Dragon Thrashed much.

[dunehunter]

 

 

Whatever you decide, it needs to be somewhat more than Soft Winds of Death, because Soft Winds is Raw damage.

It's worth noting that Raw damage is a lot less powerful in Deadfire than it was in Pillars. In Pillars Raw damage (almost) always did more damage in comparison to non-Raw damage due to there (usually) being a DR value to bypass. In Deadfire, if you have enough Penetration, non-Raw damage does full damage just like Raw, and if you can over penetrate it actually does more damage than Raw (Raw damage attacks can't over penetrate). Given how easy it is to reach full penetration against most enemies, this negates the benefit of Raw damage in a lot of cases.

 

I get the feeling Obsidian didn't take this into account when setting Raw damage values. There are a couple of unique weapons that do Raw damage, and they have significantly lower base damage than their non-Raw counterparts. This made a lot of sense in Pillars where you could face enemies like Adra Beetles which had at least 9 DR and, often, 18+ DR, but in Deadfire it makes a lot less sense.

 

True, elemental damage is better than raw when overpenetrating, especially in the case of weapon lashes, but you're not going to be overpenetrating with Dragon Thrashed much.

 

 

Lash damage is bugged when overpenetrating, it is treated as a separate 1.3 multiplier right now.