The tank gears that makes your character immortal deserve a nerf

[TheMetaphysician]

I have thought as I've been playing that they should go back to the equipment stacking rules for PoE 1 -- weapon boosts stack with everything, but boosts (of the same kind) from other items don't stack together. That could solve this problem.

 

Similarly, they should go back to the PoE 1 behavior of when you clone your character (like with Monk's Dichotomous Soul), you don't clone all the items they are wearing.

 

Really, some of the problems can be solved just by applying fixes they'd already done in the previous game. That is mildly annoying; you'd think a game like this would build on the final version of the previous game, rather than repeating mistakes that they'd already fixed in the previous game.

[Kaylon]

I have thought as I've been playing that they should go back to the equipment stacking rules for PoE 1 -- weapon boosts stack with everything, but boosts (of the same kind) from other items don't stack together. That could solve this problem.

 

Similarly, they should go back to the PoE 1 behavior of when you clone your character (like with Monk's Dichotomous Soul), you don't clone all the items they are wearing.

 

Really, some of the problems can be solved just by applying fixes they'd already done in the previous game. That is mildly annoying; you'd think a game like this would build on the final version of the previous game, rather than repeating mistakes that they'd already fixed in the previous game.

I don't think that's the solution because they nerfed the bonuses on most items and instead made everything stackable to avoid confusion.

[dunehunter]

 

I have thought as I've been playing that they should go back to the equipment stacking rules for PoE 1 -- weapon boosts stack with everything, but boosts (of the same kind) from other items don't stack together. That could solve this problem.

 

Similarly, they should go back to the PoE 1 behavior of when you clone your character (like with Monk's Dichotomous Soul), you don't clone all the items they are wearing.

 

Really, some of the problems can be solved just by applying fixes they'd already done in the previous game. That is mildly annoying; you'd think a game like this would build on the final version of the previous game, rather than repeating mistakes that they'd already fixed in the previous game.

I don't think that's the solution because they nerfed the bonuses on most items and instead made everything stackable to avoid confusion.

 

 

But look at the bonus item I post in the thread, these are obviously unnerfed, the only tank gears nerfed is shield enchantment bonus.

 

If you see one gear that gives u 20 defense in PoE 1, that is extremely powerful, and they dont stack in PoE 1, but now in Deadfire, it is common and they stack.

Edited May 26, 2018 by dunehunter

[Voltron]

Imo it's gear that is lacking. It's either too OP or totally useless. Like 50% items in this game is tottally useless.

 

Like for example you have only (just example) 10 unique rings, one is giving you +3 burning armor and one gives you +3 corrode armor. Who the hell would use that? That is so useless. Instead of making them +1 PL to that elements.

On the other hand you have ring like 35% less durations of negative effects on you or +15 to all defenses etc.

 

Same with weapons, you have something like Modwyr, Scordeo, Blade of Endless Path and some 2 stupid maces that are bad, ONE unique battleaxe, couple of totally useless 2h weapons, only 3 unique daggers, from which one is troll weapon.

Same with armors you have armors that gives nothing good and armor that gives +25 deflection.

Gear is:

 

1. Too strong

2. Or just totally useless, some random guy just put random effect on it and call it a day

3. Too many of best items are obtainable very early in game.

4. Gives waaay too much bonuses. Like Legendary weapon gives +12 Accuracy! It should give +8 at max at Legendary.

5. Not enough unique items in game. Pretty much 80% of builds posted here use same gear.

Imo gear should be more like in POE1. It was giving you boost, but it wasn't giving you 100% power spike.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Voltron

[Grubworm]

 

 

The other people on this forum that are the power builders will be here in 6 months making builds. They will answer questions for those that come late to the Deadfire party. They will keep this forum alive for a few years, but only if they find a challenge in order to justify those builds. The PoE forums stayed pretty active for such a small title. It is all on the shoulders of those folks, and it is good for new players to have a place to look for advice. It is wise to ensure they still have that challenge in Deadfire. As that is why they will be here in 6 months, or a year, or 5 years. PoE1 was a small but active community, and Deadfire needs to be the same.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

I (for example) will not post any build as long as the game is in such an unbalanced state. It's ok for now and for my first playthrough because atm the story is the most important thing. But for long term investment to happen it needs to be more balanced. A lot more.

 

 

I am currently playing Kingmaker Pathfinder beta. It's buggy and incomplete (as you would expect) but even in this state the challenge and class building is a fair bit more interesting then Deadfire at the moment.

 

I would love to come back and play more Deadfire but without the challenge its kinda boring.

 

I agree. Will try the next patch to see if it gets the love it needs :D

[Voltron]

There are also other problems in this game that were still present in POE1, for example my biggest grip

 

Why are still Ranger companions soo weak?? Like they drop like flies. Why we still can't have some gear that affects them? Like coral, trinkets, blessings , whatever. Ranger will never be fun to play solo because companions just suck.

[Lokithecat]

The one attempt I made for a ranger, was a Ghost Heart, so I didn't even have to bother with the pet.  With Maia  I didn't even bother putting the bird into combat most times, they were just too awkward to manage.  They didn't seem worth the work to involve them in fights.

[Porcelyn]

Nothing irritated my ocd like seeing (Suppressed).

 

 

[TKDancer]

why would this require a nerf when its literally you stacking a bunch of stuff? one of which would require a score of 20 in history

[TKDancer]

There are also other problems in this game that were still present in POE1, for example my biggest grip

 

Why are still Ranger companions soo weak?? Like they drop like flies. Why we still can't have some gear that affects them? Like coral, trinkets, blessings , whatever. Ranger will never be fun to play solo because companions just suck.

companions are just so slow and do so little dmg

 

i saw maia's ishiza CRIT for like only 30 dmg with full penetration, and ALL animal companions are super slow(even the lion)

 

 

companions need a desperate buff to scaling, a buff to their recovery

 

and why did heal pet become such a slow  and weak skill? in pillars 1 it was a quick point and heal, now it has a dramatic and slow cast time(and recovery) for a PITIFUL heal(i think its like 20 heaalth healed at base per 3 seconds for ONLY 6 seconds)

[ppscurry]

 Do what I do: Rings? Meh. Boots? Meh. Belts? Meh. Gloves? What's that? Throw on Giftbearer's Cloak and you're gucci. 

 

Also, ranger pets are so bad lol. The irony of the class is that it's so bad, you become tanky because of all the defensive talents you end up taking since you have nothing else to use.

Edited May 27, 2018 by ppscurry

[Rafael Braga]

Gimmickers wanting to gimmick a game, with metaknowledge to call "challenge"...

News since speedrunners were created.

 

Wanna challenge?

Play ironman without PRIOR knowledge of a game and beat it.

[omgFIREBALLS]

Wanna challenge?

 

Play ironman without PRIOR knowledge of a game and beat it.

Yeah wow, that is such a brilliant idea. It has really helped me combine my gaming with my daytime job as drying paint supervisor. I just pick up a new game, immediately attempt the hardest difficulty possible, and fail pretty early. At that point I'm considered to have prior knowledge so I cannot make another attempt, so I just have to repeat the story with another game. Pretty soon I run out of games so I just call my boss and say I can work extra this week.

 

It's quite the meme at my workplace when they arrive in the morning and notice the paint has been drying unevenly overnight. "Fireballs picked up a new game", they say. "He must have been away for a few hours and the paint just went wild without his steady supervision."

 

The highest difficulties assume metagaming. They are there for the people who want to beat unfair challenges with unfair methods.

[Maxzero]

 

Wanna challenge?

 

Play ironman without PRIOR knowledge of a game and beat it.

Yeah wow, that is such a brilliant idea. It has really helped me combine my gaming with my daytime job as drying paint supervisor. I just pick up a new game, immediately attempt the hardest difficulty possible, and fail pretty early. At that point I'm considered to have prior knowledge so I cannot make another attempt, so I just have to repeat the story with another game. Pretty soon I run out of games so I just call my boss and say I can work extra this week.

 

It's quite the meme at my workplace when they arrive in the morning and notice the paint has been drying unevenly overnight. "Fireballs picked up a new game", they say. "He must have been away for a few hours and the paint just went wild without his steady supervision."

 

The highest difficulties assume metagaming. They are there for the people who want to beat unfair challenges with unfair methods.

 

 

Ultimate Ironman: can only play the game once.

 

Hardcore only no scrubs.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Maxzero

[Delekii]

 

 

Actually I don't understand why people want to nerf single player game. If you want challenge, just don't use them isn't it? 

 

That's artificial difficulty. 

 

Likewise the people who want an easy time should just play on the easy difficulties. Path of the Damned was designed for a challenge and is incapable of providing one at the moment.

 

 

It does indeed not provide a great challenge to characters that are fully min/maxed and using scaling gear with min maxed skills to match these items.

It does, however, provide an interesting challenge to characters that are built with a minimum of roleplay where choices are motivated by more than mere stats (like companions and sidekicks are, btw, and there is no denying that they are a massive part of the experience intended by the devs).

Still not enough challenge imo, and we all know it has been acknowledged by the devs, and will be tuned, but interesting challenge nonetheless.

 

The conception that PotD should be designed to accomodate powerbuilders is subjective, and quite frankly, not really fitting a game like POE2:Deadfire that focuses on writing, environement, and roleplaying. 

 

 

Also, why putting restrictions on yourself would be artificial difficulty ? Isn't it the essence of a RPG to make choices that your character would make ? Or to reflect his actual skills in the stats ?

Is your 4 resolve watcher really a coward ? Does he really know all the history of Eora, but can't even slightly bluff, has zero interest in metaphysics despite being a watcher ?

 

And more importantly: What difference does it make to your personal single player gameplay experience if you: A -  don't use an option because you think you will have more fun like this, or B- the option is simply removed from the game  ?

 

 

This is a nonsense argument. Single player games still need balance to be fun, and the place where that is most important is at the most difficult point. Anyone who wants less than the most difficult challenge can opt to make a choice within the context of the game to make it easier than doesn't involve them simply not using something available in the game. 

 

When you find a ring of overpowered overpoweredness in a game and don't use it because it's too powerful, that is definitionally artificial difficutly. When you make a game on a difficulty less than the top difficulty it is also artificial difficulty, but it doesn't require to to alter what you do in the game in a nonsensical way. It changes the entire environment, rather than making you as the player change something that makes no contextual sense in the environment. 

 

You are flatly wrong about PotD not being designed around powerbuilders; it is subjective but it is based on the ideas of the game creators. PotD triple crown in PoE1 was "subjectively" designed and balanced around mechanical prowess, and PoE2 will be the same when it is balanced; the devs have already said that they simply didn't have time to balance it and it will come in time. 

[Phyriel]

So Obsidian if you want to bring Triple Crown Solo into the game, you need to consider downtune these gears listed below:

 

Cadhu Scalth: +12+4+15 = 31 deflection, +37 deflection with sword&shield style.

 

Gipon Prudensco: +20 deflection, +5 deflecton from steadfast, +25 deflection in total.

 

Etonia Signet Ring: +15 All Defense when engaged by 5 enemy.

 

Giftbearer Cloak: +25 All Defense except Deflection, when u have 20 history.

 

So in total you get +77 deflection, +40 All other defense with these 4 gears. Seriously it makes any of your fragile characters into immortal tanks. And even turn your paladin/chanter into a untouchable god. I can go grab a coffee and see my character has full health when I play PoTD with that +5 Difficulty Mod. If you realise that defense has an increasing gain compare to other stats, you won't design such ridiculous gears which are all stackable.

 

Etonia Signet Ring give you defenses not per engaged by enemy but how many enemies you engage. You need to actively fight in melee with multiple ++ engagement on gear to make it give you more stacks. Shield gives you +1 engagement so you can get +6 but once you stop using your melee weapon and lets say start to cast a spell, then engagement is broken somehow and you loose that bonus. I tested it. If you wanna build for +4 engagement then you'll have that 15 def from it. 

 

Gipon gives you deflection vs disengagement no? It doesn't have flat 20 deflection on it. 

 

Giftbearer cloak i admit its good. 

 

Shield deserves nerf the most. But not due to deflection but because it has % all damage reduction scaling with metaphysics (looks like 1% per 1.5 metaphysics skill). Also have a per encounter ability that deals crush damage and debuff enemy all defenses (base -5) but it also scale with metaphysics (I got -29 on mine). Its probably best mitigation shield while also being one of the best debuff shield vs bosses and what not. Not to mention you won't die vs ranged and aoe attacks that target reflex if you activate active ability on large shields.

 

I want to add one item to the list tho:

 

A Whale of a Wand

 

https://gyazo.com/3fe46be3e80573169268282d1e38b7b4

 

Wand making your spell hits have 10% chance to charm targets. Just drop chillfog and see them kill each other lol. Not to mention you can enchant it to give you version of barring death door that last for over 20sec with high intellect and can summon 2 drakes with another enchant. 20 sec immortality? You can even build squishy glass cannon wizard with as low recovery as possible to machine gun spells. Pretty broken item if you ask me. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Phyriel

[dunehunter]

 

So Obsidian if you want to bring Triple Crown Solo into the game, you need to consider downtune these gears listed below:

 

Cadhu Scalth: +12+4+15 = 31 deflection, +37 deflection with sword&shield style.

 

Gipon Prudensco: +20 deflection, +5 deflecton from steadfast, +25 deflection in total.

 

Etonia Signet Ring: +15 All Defense when engaged by 5 enemy.

 

Giftbearer Cloak: +25 All Defense except Deflection, when u have 20 history.

 

So in total you get +77 deflection, +40 All other defense with these 4 gears. Seriously it makes any of your fragile characters into immortal tanks. And even turn your paladin/chanter into a untouchable god. I can go grab a coffee and see my character has full health when I play PoTD with that +5 Difficulty Mod. If you realise that defense has an increasing gain compare to other stats, you won't design such ridiculous gears which are all stackable.

 

Etonia Signet Ring give you defenses not per engaged by enemy but how many enemies you engage. You need to actively fight in melee with multiple ++ engagement on gear to make it give you more stacks. Shield gives you +1 engagement so you can get +6 but once you stop using your melee weapon and lets say start to cast a spell, then engagement is broken somehow and you loose that bonus. I tested it. If you wanna build for +4 engagement then you'll have that 15 def from it. 

 

Gipon gives you deflection vs disengagement no? It doesn't have flat 20 deflection on it. 

 

Giftbearer cloak i admit its good. 

 

Shield deserves nerf the most. But not due to deflection but because it has % all damage reduction scaling with metaphysics (looks like 1% per 1.5 metaphysics skill). Also have a per encounter ability that deals crush damage and debuff enemy all defenses (base -5) but it also scale with metaphysics (I got -29 on mine). Its probably best mitigation shield while also being one of the best debuff shield vs bosses and what not. Not to mention you won't die vs ranged and aoe attacks that target reflex if you activate active ability on large shields.

 

 

The ring gives u defense by being engaged, not u engage enemy, you shall go test before post.

 

Gipon gives u flat deflection, not just disengagement.

Edited May 27, 2018 by dunehunter

[Phyriel]

You are wrong sir. I said i tested it and I know i'm right. Maybe you tested it on char that have multiple +engagement i dunno. I don't see anything about flat deflection on Gipon in item description, it has enchant that give you stacking +deflection and reflex on being hit that caps at 10 stacks which is strong but not as strong as saying it has flat +20 deflection. I'd say the +40 reflex at 10 stacks is waaaay more op. 

 

p.s wording on a ring is confusing but I'm telling you I tested it to the bone lol. I had it on wizard with shield giving +1engagement and i was surrounded by melee attackers (like 8 or sth). Defenses from ring capped at +6 (because i had 2 engagement on my char). And bonus disappeared when I started casting. It appeared again after I started swinging my sword but again capped at +6 because that's how many enemies I could engage. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Phyriel

[dunehunter]

Edited May 27, 2018 by dunehunter

[Phyriel]

How much +engagement you have on Eder? 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Phyriel

[dunehunter]

How much +engagement you have on Eder? 

 

It's not flat deflection yeah, I just say it against your 'deflection against disengagement'. Look the pic, no green arrows.

[Phyriel]

Its hard to say just by a screenshot, on my wizard +6 didn't get removed exactly at the moment I started casting, it lasted for few seconds. Anyway I'm standing by my idea how the item work because I had +6 on my wizard that had 2 engagement slots (1 innate +1 from shield). If item worked like you said I'd have +15 also so... 

 

Yeah u're right about chest, its op nonetheless even tho I had to check enchantments on it because on main item it says just against deflection. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Phyriel

[dunehunter]

Its hard to say just by a screenshot, on my wizard +6 didn't get removed exactly at the moment I started casting, it lasted for few seconds. Anyway I'm standing by my idea how the item work because I had +6 on my wizard that had 2 engagement slots (1 innate +1 from shield). If item worked like you said I'd have +15 also so... 

 

Well you can see I didn't use defender stance on eder. He is using a pollaxe without modal, so if you still insist on he has 5 engagement and don't believe me, it's your issue

[knownastherat]

 

 

 

Actually I don't understand why people want to nerf single player game. If you want challenge, just don't use them isn't it? 

 

That's artificial difficulty. 

 

Likewise the people who want an easy time should just play on the easy difficulties. Path of the Damned was designed for a challenge and is incapable of providing one at the moment.

 

 

It does indeed not provide a great challenge to characters that are fully min/maxed and using scaling gear with min maxed skills to match these items.

It does, however, provide an interesting challenge to characters that are built with a minimum of roleplay where choices are motivated by more than mere stats (like companions and sidekicks are, btw, and there is no denying that they are a massive part of the experience intended by the devs).

Still not enough challenge imo, and we all know it has been acknowledged by the devs, and will be tuned, but interesting challenge nonetheless.

 

The conception that PotD should be designed to accomodate powerbuilders is subjective, and quite frankly, not really fitting a game like POE2:Deadfire that focuses on writing, environement, and roleplaying. 

 

 

Also, why putting restrictions on yourself would be artificial difficulty ? Isn't it the essence of a RPG to make choices that your character would make ? Or to reflect his actual skills in the stats ?

Is your 4 resolve watcher really a coward ? Does he really know all the history of Eora, but can't even slightly bluff, has zero interest in metaphysics despite being a watcher ?

 

And more importantly: What difference does it make to your personal single player gameplay experience if you: A -  don't use an option because you think you will have more fun like this, or B- the option is simply removed from the game  ?

 

 

This is a nonsense argument. Single player games still need balance to be fun, and the place where that is most important is at the most difficult point. Anyone who wants less than the most difficult challenge can opt to make a choice within the context of the game to make it easier than doesn't involve them simply not using something available in the game. 

 

When you find a ring of overpowered overpoweredness in a game and don't use it because it's too powerful, that is definitionally artificial difficutly. When you make a game on a difficulty less than the top difficulty it is also artificial difficulty, but it doesn't require to to alter what you do in the game in a nonsensical way. It changes the entire environment, rather than making you as the player change something that makes no contextual sense in the environment. 

 

You are flatly wrong about PotD not being designed around powerbuilders; it is subjective but it is based on the ideas of the game creators. PotD triple crown in PoE1 was "subjectively" designed and balanced around mechanical prowess, and PoE2 will be the same when it is balanced; the devs have already said that they simply didn't have time to balance it and it will come in time. 

 

 

How is this alleged artificial difficulty different from difficulty? 

 

Players who want a challenge have means provided by the game to be challenged. This is irrefutable fact. Whether the ring of overpowered overpoweredness exists in the game or not doesn't change this fact.

 

The difference between artificial difficulty and difficulty is an imaginary and false concept. It's like if a rock climber would be telling a free climber: Use the ropes woman, without them it's  .. artificial difficulty. Nonsense. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by knownastherat

[Phyriel]

 

Its hard to say just by a screenshot, on my wizard +6 didn't get removed exactly at the moment I started casting, it lasted for few seconds. Anyway I'm standing by my idea how the item work because I had +6 on my wizard that had 2 engagement slots (1 innate +1 from shield). If item worked like you said I'd have +15 also so... 

 

Well you can see I didn't use defender stance on eder. He is using a pollaxe without modal, so if you still insist on he has 5 engagement and don't believe me, it's your issue

 

 

I believe what I see. Ima produce same screenshot with my wizard surrounded by 8 melee guys engaging me and show you +6 defenses. Then it will be your issue? I'm not arguing for the sake of it. I'm just saying in my game I had different results. How would you explain this?

Edited May 27, 2018 by Phyriel