Update #48 - What's Next?

[Guest Huh]

 

 

 

I wish they can reworked main quest, especially Ashen Maw and Ukaizo.

Upvoted.

 

Maybe in a big patch, like "2.0" patch for PoE 1.

 

That's really sad that the most dissapointing part of the game is the most crucial one. I mean, hunting for a god across Deadfire could play so well with exploration theme, but this game rushes it way too much.

Agreed, i think the main quest is much too time sensitive, the game keeps telling me to do the main quest, and then i can't do the side content because the game ends after the main quest, they should either give us the ability to play the side content after the main quest, or make the main quest much less time sensitive in my opinion.

Just wondering, how does the game rush it? Do you end up with a timer at some point in the game?

 

No, but the antagonist is moving quickly towards a place on the map while we travel around the entire map several times in the main quest alone, meaning the antagonist could have reached his goal and won long before we even finished the main quest, and realistically we wouldn't even manage to think about most of the side quests, just poorly structured in my opinion, Pillars one was even worse, there was no logical reason to do the dlc in that game.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Huh

[drael6464]

 

 

 

 

I wish they can reworked main quest, especially Ashen Maw and Ukaizo.

Upvoted.

 

Maybe in a big patch, like "2.0" patch for PoE 1.

 

That's really sad that the most dissapointing part of the game is the most crucial one. I mean, hunting for a god across Deadfire could play so well with exploration theme, but this game rushes it way too much.

Agreed, i think the main quest is much too time sensitive, the game keeps telling me to do the main quest, and then i can't do the side content because the game ends after the main quest, they should either give us the ability to play the side content after the main quest, or make the main quest much less time sensitive in my opinion.

Just wondering, how does the game rush it? Do you end up with a timer at some point in the game?

 

No, but the antagonist is moving quickly towards a place on the map while we travel around the entire map several times in the main quest alone, meaning the antagonist could have reached his goal and won long before we even finished the main quest, and realistically we wouldn't even manage to think about most of the side quests, just poorly structured in my opinion, Pillars one was even worse, there was no logical reason to do the dlc in that game.

 

 

Pretty much just an issue with this style of crpg in general. 

You can't have some world threatening narrative without a real, or false sense of time urgency. If the world is going to end in 1000 years, it's not much of a story sell. Likewise you can't have an actual time pressure, and have deep exploration. In a pnp game, the DM can sort of moderate and justify these things, but in a game, you kind of have to go with "it needs doing now! (but not really).

[Guest Huh]

 

 

 

 

 

I wish they can reworked main quest, especially Ashen Maw and Ukaizo.

Upvoted.

 

Maybe in a big patch, like "2.0" patch for PoE 1.

 

That's really sad that the most dissapointing part of the game is the most crucial one. I mean, hunting for a god across Deadfire could play so well with exploration theme, but this game rushes it way too much.

Agreed, i think the main quest is much too time sensitive, the game keeps telling me to do the main quest, and then i can't do the side content because the game ends after the main quest, they should either give us the ability to play the side content after the main quest, or make the main quest much less time sensitive in my opinion.

Just wondering, how does the game rush it? Do you end up with a timer at some point in the game?

 

No, but the antagonist is moving quickly towards a place on the map while we travel around the entire map several times in the main quest alone, meaning the antagonist could have reached his goal and won long before we even finished the main quest, and realistically we wouldn't even manage to think about most of the side quests, just poorly structured in my opinion, Pillars one was even worse, there was no logical reason to do the dlc in that game.

 

 

Pretty much just an issue with this style of crpg in general. 

You can't have some world threatening narrative without a real, or false sense of time urgency. If the world is going to end in 1000 years, it's not much of a story sell. Likewise you can't have an actual time pressure, and have deep exploration. In a pnp game, the DM can sort of moderate and justify these things, but in a game, you kind of have to go with "it needs doing now! (but not really).

 

I disagree there, it would be easy for them to make it make sense if they wanted to, all they would have to do is make the majority of the side content post game, and/or find some explanation that made sense for why the big guy is taking so long, maybe he is spending a lot of time and energy doing something we don't know about, maybe he is destroying or using some old engwithan tech or magic for some reason, maybe he is setting some things in motion for the future, there are many possible ways of fixing the structure of the game, my guess is that they just don't see a need to do it because only a few people care about logic in games.

[drael6464]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish they can reworked main quest, especially Ashen Maw and Ukaizo.

Upvoted.

 

Maybe in a big patch, like "2.0" patch for PoE 1.

 

That's really sad that the most dissapointing part of the game is the most crucial one. I mean, hunting for a god across Deadfire could play so well with exploration theme, but this game rushes it way too much.

Agreed, i think the main quest is much too time sensitive, the game keeps telling me to do the main quest, and then i can't do the side content because the game ends after the main quest, they should either give us the ability to play the side content after the main quest, or make the main quest much less time sensitive in my opinion.

Just wondering, how does the game rush it? Do you end up with a timer at some point in the game?

 

No, but the antagonist is moving quickly towards a place on the map while we travel around the entire map several times in the main quest alone, meaning the antagonist could have reached his goal and won long before we even finished the main quest, and realistically we wouldn't even manage to think about most of the side quests, just poorly structured in my opinion, Pillars one was even worse, there was no logical reason to do the dlc in that game.

 

 

Pretty much just an issue with this style of crpg in general. 

You can't have some world threatening narrative without a real, or false sense of time urgency. If the world is going to end in 1000 years, it's not much of a story sell. Likewise you can't have an actual time pressure, and have deep exploration. In a pnp game, the DM can sort of moderate and justify these things, but in a game, you kind of have to go with "it needs doing now! (but not really).

 

I disagree there, it would be easy for them to make it make sense if they wanted to, all they would have to do is make the majority of the side content post game, and/or find some explanation that made sense for why the big guy is taking so long, maybe he is spending a lot of time and energy doing something we don't know about, maybe he is destroying or using some old engwithan tech or magic for some reason, maybe he is setting some things in motion for the future, there are many possible ways of fixing the structure of the game, my guess is that they just don't see a need to do it because only a few people care about logic in games.

 

 

I guess I kind of felt like there was some mystery around what he was doing. Like visiting adra sites that you don't get to see. But that still didn't mash with me exploring every inch of map in the second playthrough because I could. 

 

I guess they could have made most of the side content post game, but then that would have changed the whole story structure quite a bit, and seperated "the direction of society" from the main plot, which would have its own downsides. Basically that would make it two stories or acts, and then the main act would have seemed quite lacking. 

 

Perhaps you are right in that this could have been handled differently. Or better. But my general point was, that this is an issue that's inherent to this format of game, even in pen and paper. In a pen and paper game, basically will put up with a certain amount of messing about and then put the pressure back on when it feels like the energy is lost.  

 

I guess one solution would be to have _some_ of the side content prior, and some after. It didn't ruin things for me, but my initial instinct was - better rush for this thing! And that subtracted from all the interesting side content. So I get your point. 

 

Another solution would have been to only make things seem urgent toward the end. Keep guans movements and plans relatively secret until you got towards the end of some of that other content. But it does seem like everything has a trade off here. 

[Guest Huh]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish they can reworked main quest, especially Ashen Maw and Ukaizo.

Upvoted.

 

Maybe in a big patch, like "2.0" patch for PoE 1.

 

That's really sad that the most dissapointing part of the game is the most crucial one. I mean, hunting for a god across Deadfire could play so well with exploration theme, but this game rushes it way too much.

Agreed, i think the main quest is much too time sensitive, the game keeps telling me to do the main quest, and then i can't do the side content because the game ends after the main quest, they should either give us the ability to play the side content after the main quest, or make the main quest much less time sensitive in my opinion.

Just wondering, how does the game rush it? Do you end up with a timer at some point in the game?

 

No, but the antagonist is moving quickly towards a place on the map while we travel around the entire map several times in the main quest alone, meaning the antagonist could have reached his goal and won long before we even finished the main quest, and realistically we wouldn't even manage to think about most of the side quests, just poorly structured in my opinion, Pillars one was even worse, there was no logical reason to do the dlc in that game.

 

 

Pretty much just an issue with this style of crpg in general. 

You can't have some world threatening narrative without a real, or false sense of time urgency. If the world is going to end in 1000 years, it's not much of a story sell. Likewise you can't have an actual time pressure, and have deep exploration. In a pnp game, the DM can sort of moderate and justify these things, but in a game, you kind of have to go with "it needs doing now! (but not really).

 

I disagree there, it would be easy for them to make it make sense if they wanted to, all they would have to do is make the majority of the side content post game, and/or find some explanation that made sense for why the big guy is taking so long, maybe he is spending a lot of time and energy doing something we don't know about, maybe he is destroying or using some old engwithan tech or magic for some reason, maybe he is setting some things in motion for the future, there are many possible ways of fixing the structure of the game, my guess is that they just don't see a need to do it because only a few people care about logic in games.

 

 

I guess I kind of felt like there was some mystery around what he was doing. Like visiting adra sites that you don't get to see. But that still didn't mash with me exploring every inch of map in the second playthrough because I could. 

 

I guess they could have made most of the side content post game, but then that would have changed the whole story structure quite a bit, and seperated "the direction of society" from the main plot, which would have its own downsides. Basically that would make it two stories or acts, and then the main act would have seemed quite lacking. 

 

Perhaps you are right in that this could have been handled differently. Or better. But my general point was, that this is an issue that's inherent to this format of game, even in pen and paper. In a pen and paper game, basically will put up with a certain amount of messing about and then put the pressure back on when it feels like the energy is lost.  

 

I guess one solution would be to have _some_ of the side content prior, and some after. It didn't ruin things for me, but my initial instinct was - better rush for this thing! And that subtracted from all the interesting side content. So I get your point. 

 

Another solution would have been to only make things seem urgent toward the end. Keep guans movements and plans relatively secret until you got towards the end of some of that other content. But it does seem like everything has a trade off here. 

 

Yeah, i am just tired of seeing poorly structured games when other media is much better structured, i mean, if in the lord of the rings Frodo all of a sudden just decided to turn around and do random side quests instead of the actual important quest he was on, how do you think that would have been received by critics and fans? i mean, even transformers is better structured than Obsidian games, and most other RPGs, Obsidian makes great content, everything except the structure of Pillars 1 and 2 is amazing, but why can't they ever structure their games properly? we are also being ordered by Berath to follow Eothas/Gaun to gather info about him, and stop him or talk to him before he finishes his work, don't you think a god that has us enslaved for the purpose of following Eothas would be pissed if we decided to cruise around the world for months instead of actually doing our job? this sort of sloppy game design is just sad to see from Obsidian, and if the dlc takes place before the end game, i will not buy it unless it somehow fixes the structure of the game.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Huh

[ThacoBell]

If Obsidian had implemented a time limit on the game, I would not have backed, bought, or played it at all.

[drael6464]

If Obsidian had implemented a time limit on the game, I would not have backed, bought, or played it at all.

 

Yeah I'd prefer to explore the world more, rather than rush to the end. These types of games are way better if you take the time to soak them in. 

[LordInsane]

The problem seems less "the game lets you do other things!" (that is a core aspect of this kind of game, and that movies or books are not structured that way does not mean it is a flaw for games) than "the main quest doesn't have a good 'breathing point' where it makes sense to go off and do other things".

[Guest Huh]

The problem seems less "the game lets you do other things!" (that is a core aspect of this kind of game, and that movies or books are not structured that way does not mean it is a flaw for games) than "the main quest doesn't have a good 'breathing point' where it makes sense to go off and do other things".

I didn't mean that games should be 100% linear obviously, though i would honestly have liked that more than this, i think Oblivion with the live another life mod did this sort of thing right, we can be completely separated from the main quest until we are ready for the main quest, that way we can do all the side content first, and then start the main quest if we so choose, even vanilla Oblivion makes more sense, we can do all the side content after the main quest, i hate to give Bethesda praise for anything these days, but back then they did some things right in my opinion, it would honestly be enough for me if Obsidian came out with a dlc or an update that allowed us to play the side content after the main quest, everything about Pillars 1 and 2 is amazing except the structure of the games, it's so strange and sad to look at such amazing games that are partially ruined because of something so easy to fix, it honestly makes the issue much worse than it would have been if the rest of the game was bad as well, it's like a bmw with a moped engine in it, it's just such an obvious mistake.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Huh

[Night Stalker]

I wonder if the games with money-gates or 4 plot coupons to collect had it right all along.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Night Stalker

[Purudaya]

BG2 had this problem as well - they put in a fixed gold requirement to progress to chapter three, but it only took 2-3 side quests to achieve and it made no sense narratively to do any sidequests whatsoever afterward.

I just use some headcanon - when Eothas tells you he'll meet you at Ashen Maw, I take it to mean that he's either literally waiting for you or has a ton of adra pillars to hit on the way. Hopefully once the difficulty is fixed the ships around the island will be level-prohibitive in their difficulty and encourage more side-content/levelling as well. It's still messy in terms of story-telling, but you can't have an open world with an urgent narrative and good side content without some narrative compromises.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Purudaya

[wih]

 

Yeah, i am just tired of seeing poorly structured games when other media is much better structured, i mean, if in the lord of the rings Frodo all of a sudden just decided to turn around and do random side quests instead of the actual important quest he was on, how do you think that would have been received by critics and fans? i mean, even transformers is better structured than Obsidian games, and most other RPGs, Obsidian makes great content, everything except the structure of Pillars 1 and 2 is amazing, but why can't they ever structure their games properly? we are also being ordered by Berath to follow Eothas/Gaun to gather info about him, and stop him or talk to him before he finishes his work, don't you think a god that has us enslaved for the purpose of following Eothas would be pissed if we decided to cruise around the world for months instead of actually doing our job? this sort of sloppy game design is just sad to see from Obsidian, and if the dlc takes place before the end game, i will not buy it unless it somehow fixes the structure of the game.

 

You are right about how silly would be if Frodo started to do side quests, but I have lost count of how many times I have read a praise for some open ended game that went like this: "The game offers so much freedom! You can totally forget about the main quest and go exploring!!".

 

Probably the people from Obsidian are afraid to try and do a really convincing story, because in this case that story is going to be too linear and restricting.

 

 

 

[house2fly]

Pillars 1 had the perfect solution to this, by relaxing the urgency of the main quest. This led to people complaining that the main quest didn't feel urgent enough, so they backtracked for the sequel, and now you have an epic save-the-world quest which you can blow off to do side missions, like in every other damn game

[drael6464]

 

 

 

 

 

"Mobs" is a term that refers to individual monsters in gaming, separate from the usual definition. It's short for "mobile" and dates back to the earliest days of gaming.

 

 

 

Great. So it is impossible to know what someone means when using that word without asking for definitions first.

Nah, if  the word is used in a gaming or MMO context, this is always the meaning 

 

*Edit, Ignore the names, I snipped to far and can't figure out how to delete and repost lol. 

 

 

I played one MMO, back before everquest came out. I got sucked in, ended up putting in silly hours to outlevel a higher level player who was pvping me, watched people get married, then decided "okay, maybe this isn't for me", and never touched one again. 

[Ryz009]

BG2 had this problem as well - they put in a fixed gold requirement to progress to chapter three, but it only took 2-3 side quests to achieve and it made no sense narratively to do any sidequests whatsoever afterward.

 

I just use some headcanon - when Eothas tells you he'll meet you at Ashen Maw, I take it to mean that he's either literally waiting for you or has a ton of adra pillars to hit on the way. Hopefully once the difficulty is fixed the ships around the island will be level-prohibitive in their difficulty and encourage more side-content/levelling as well. It's still messy in terms of story-telling, but you can't have an open world with an urgent narrative and good side content without some narrative compromises.

 

 

 

I always took it as him going there to wait for the protagonist. He's the one who mainly wants to talk to you afterwall so it makes sense that he'd wait a bit for you to catch up.

[Casper]

Pillars 1 had the perfect solution to this, by relaxing the urgency of the main quest. This led to people complaining that the main quest didn't feel urgent enough, so they backtracked for the sequel, and now you have an epic save-the-world quest which you can blow off to do side missions, like in every other damn game

 

so that's what happened... you know, i think that's what i liked best about pillers1, there was this leisurely stroll towards your objective... reminds me of morrowind slightly, with the exception that in morrowind you were actively encouraged to go and do other things, to gain experience, local knowledge, and establish your cover, while doing the main quest in the in-between bits. i wish more games handled pacing that well. 

[Guest Huh]

Pillars 1 had the perfect solution to this, by relaxing the urgency of the main quest. This led to people complaining that the main quest didn't feel urgent enough, so they backtracked for the sequel, and now you have an epic save-the-world quest which you can blow off to do side missions, like in every other damn game

How did Pillars one have the perfect solution to this? if anything it was even worse than Pillars 2 if you consider the dlc as well, our character needs to fix his soul asap, and he can only do that by doing the main quest, and he also can't really sleep most of the time, if you were losing your mind and also couldn't get nearly as much sleep as usual, and some crazy Engwithan is close to tossing every soul in the dyrwood over to Woedica, would you honestly then go do the dlc that is not only far away but you have to travel through snow and mountains to get there as well, in addition to doing all the other side content in the dyrwood? and the bounties are also bad, we can only do a bit more than half of them before we start the Twin elms stuff, at witch point there is definitely no good reason to travel back and forth through the dyrwood bounty hunting, there is already a massive amount of travelling in the main quest alone, add the side content and Thaos could have been finished with his work before we even reach the Twin Elms, in my opinion Pillars one and 2 would have been much much better games if we could do the side content and the dlc after the main quest.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Huh

[Guest Huh]

 

Pillars 1 had the perfect solution to this, by relaxing the urgency of the main quest. This led to people complaining that the main quest didn't feel urgent enough, so they backtracked for the sequel, and now you have an epic save-the-world quest which you can blow off to do side missions, like in every other damn game

 

so that's what happened... you know, i think that's what i liked best about pillers1, there was this leisurely stroll towards your objective... reminds me of morrowind slightly, with the exception that in morrowind you were actively encouraged to go and do other things, to gain experience, local knowledge, and establish your cover, while doing the main quest in the in-between bits. i wish more games handled pacing that well. 

 

I think you need to replay Pillars if you think this is accurate, sure, Pillars one has a less earth shattering main quest than the second game does, but it's still very time sensitive.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Huh

[Guest Huh]

 

 

Yeah, i am just tired of seeing poorly structured games when other media is much better structured, i mean, if in the lord of the rings Frodo all of a sudden just decided to turn around and do random side quests instead of the actual important quest he was on, how do you think that would have been received by critics and fans? i mean, even transformers is better structured than Obsidian games, and most other RPGs, Obsidian makes great content, everything except the structure of Pillars 1 and 2 is amazing, but why can't they ever structure their games properly? we are also being ordered by Berath to follow Eothas/Gaun to gather info about him, and stop him or talk to him before he finishes his work, don't you think a god that has us enslaved for the purpose of following Eothas would be pissed if we decided to cruise around the world for months instead of actually doing our job? this sort of sloppy game design is just sad to see from Obsidian, and if the dlc takes place before the end game, i will not buy it unless it somehow fixes the structure of the game.

 

You are right about how silly would be if Frodo started to do side quests, but I have lost count of how many times I have read a praise for some open ended game that went like this: "The game offers so much freedom! You can totally forget about the main quest and go exploring!!".

 

Probably the people from Obsidian are afraid to try and do a really convincing story, because in this case that story is going to be too linear and restricting.

 

You may be right though in my opinion it would be much better to have a linear main quest and give us the ability to play the side content after the main quest.

[Guest Huh]

 

BG2 had this problem as well - they put in a fixed gold requirement to progress to chapter three, but it only took 2-3 side quests to achieve and it made no sense narratively to do any sidequests whatsoever afterward.

 

I just use some headcanon - when Eothas tells you he'll meet you at Ashen Maw, I take it to mean that he's either literally waiting for you or has a ton of adra pillars to hit on the way. Hopefully once the difficulty is fixed the ships around the island will be level-prohibitive in their difficulty and encourage more side-content/levelling as well. It's still messy in terms of story-telling, but you can't have an open world with an urgent narrative and good side content without some narrative compromises.

 

 

 

I always took it as him going there to wait for the protagonist. He's the one who mainly wants to talk to you afterwall so it makes sense that he'd wait a bit for you to catch up.

 

He also says that he will not remain there for a long time, Berath has us enslaved because she/he/it want's us to talk to Eothas, seemingly to help them find a way to stop Eothas, don't you think a god that has a kill switch on us specifically to make us follow Eothas, will be mad if we cruise around the world for months instead of chasing Eothas? Eothas may be curious about the pc, but his goal is to do his thing as soon as he can, he also says he is surprised to see us when we meet him in the Ashen maw, and at the end of the game as well.

[Casper]

I think you need to replay Pillars if you think this is accurate, sure, Pillars one has a less earth shattering main quest than the second game does, but it's still very time sensitive.

 

 

as far i can recall... you learned about your condition somewhat slowly, just as you learn about thaos & the leaden key a little bit at a time, sure you could make connective leaps a head of time, but there was pacing. there wasn't this "OMG!!! we have to stop some idiot from doing something insane!" moment at the very start of the game. yes, there was ominous stuff going on, but things weren't really clear. and it took time for such things to become clear. at least from the main character's perspective. 

[Guest Huh]

BG2 had this problem as well - they put in a fixed gold requirement to progress to chapter three, but it only took 2-3 side quests to achieve and it made no sense narratively to do any sidequests whatsoever afterward.

 

I just use some headcanon - when Eothas tells you he'll meet you at Ashen Maw, I take it to mean that he's either literally waiting for you or has a ton of adra pillars to hit on the way. Hopefully once the difficulty is fixed the ships around the island will be level-prohibitive in their difficulty and encourage more side-content/levelling as well. It's still messy in terms of story-telling, but you can't have an open world with an urgent narrative and good side content without some narrative compromises.

 

 

I also use the adra pillar excuse, but it's just that, an excuse, and yes you can, you can make it so the side content is made specifically for after the main quest, Oblivion and even Skyrim do that, we can fly through the main quest and then really enjoy the side content after we did the main quest, i wish more developers made their games like that, don't get me wrong though, Pillars one and 2 are amazing games apart from their structure, Obsidian is one of only a few developers to actually push the rpg genre forward in my opinion.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Huh

[Guest Huh]

 

I think you need to replay Pillars if you think this is accurate, sure, Pillars one has a less earth shattering main quest than the second game does, but it's still very time sensitive.

 

 

as far i can recall... you learned about your condition somewhat slowly, just as you learn about thaos & the leaden key a little bit at a time, sure you could make connective leaps a head of time, but there was pacing. there wasn't this "OMG!!! we have to stop some idiot from doing something insane!" moment at the very start of the game. yes, there was ominous stuff going on, but things weren't really clear. and it took time for such things to become clear. at least from the main character's perspective. 

 

Have you played the game just doing the main quest before? in my opinion it makes much much more sense than doing the dlc and most of the side content does, i also think the game pushes us to do the main quest asap, and the game also seems to want us to be high level to do most of the dlc, meaning we would need to do a lot of the main quest to get to that level, we get the info we need to go find Maerwald or whatever he calls himself very very quickly, and imo there are several good reasons to rush towards that asap, and once we go to meet him we find out right there that what is happening to him is likely happening to us as well, and we also get the clue to go find the leaden key in defiance bay, and once there we get several clues that imo are all time sensitive and they all lead to finding out what Thaos is currently doing, and he is ahead of us the whole time, how are we then supposed to ignore that and travel around the dyrwood for months doing side quests? the game is poorly structured in my opinion, i think most games are poorly structured though, i just hold Obsidian to a higher standard that other developers, they do 99% of their content great, but it's still weird to see such lack of even basic logic in the structure of their games.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Huh

[Casper]

Have you played the game just doing the main quest before? it makes much much more sense than dong the dlc and most of the side content does, the game pushes us to do the main quest asap, and the game also seems to want us to be high level to do most of the dlc, meaning we would need to do a lot of the main quest to get to that level, we get the info we need to go find Maerwald or whatever he calls himself very very quickly, and there are several good reasons to rush towards that asap, and once we go to meet him we get the clue to go find the leaden key in defiance bay, and once there we get several clues that are all time sensitive and they all lead to finding out what Thaos is currently doing, and he is ahead of us the whole time, how are we then supposed to ignore that and travel around the dyrwood for months doing side quests? the game is poorly structured in my opinion, most games are poorly structured.

 

i just think you're just seeing things that i'm not (either it's in your head, or simply not in mine), and playing from a metagame perspective. as i don't get that at all from PoE1 (with perhaps the exception of WM). and i've played through the game 4 times to completion, and about 3 more pts at various stages of completion. my first playthrough was just vanilla PoE, no white marches (as it wasn't out at that point in time)

 

---edit

you know, i used to munch on folks like you when playing chess. such people seem to forget that not everyone thinks like they do, and can't seem to see the board from anyone's perspective but their own. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Casper

[Guest Huh]

 

Have you played the game just doing the main quest before? it makes much much more sense than dong the dlc and most of the side content does, the game pushes us to do the main quest asap, and the game also seems to want us to be high level to do most of the dlc, meaning we would need to do a lot of the main quest to get to that level, we get the info we need to go find Maerwald or whatever he calls himself very very quickly, and there are several good reasons to rush towards that asap, and once we go to meet him we get the clue to go find the leaden key in defiance bay, and once there we get several clues that are all time sensitive and they all lead to finding out what Thaos is currently doing, and he is ahead of us the whole time, how are we then supposed to ignore that and travel around the dyrwood for months doing side quests? the game is poorly structured in my opinion, most games are poorly structured.

 

i just think you're just seeing things that i'm not (either it's in your head, or simply not in mine), and playing from a metagame perspective. as i don't get that at all from PoE1 (with perhaps the exception of WM). and i've played through the game 4 times to completion, and about 3 more pts at various stages of completion. my first playthrough was just vanilla PoE, no white marches (as it wasn't out at that point in time)

 

---edit

you know, i used to munch on folks like you when playing chess. such people seem to forget that not everyone thinks like they do, and can't seem to see the board from anyone's perspective but their own. 

 

It isn't meta gaming when the game tells all this to the character in the very beginning of the game, and throughout the game, just because you don't pay attention to the same things i do in my games, in your games doesn't mean that the game isn't flawed, and just because i have different ideas and preferences than you do doesn't mean that i am excluding other possibilities, it just means that to me proper structure matters a lot, ( and maybe because it matters to me i am more aware of such things than people that don't care about it ) and the fact that you instantly turn to petty insults instead of properly debating me, tells me you have no leg to stand on, i have highlighted several good points to you, and you keep ignoring them and tell me i am meta gaming, or that i am imagining things, maybe you are the one with problems seeing other peoples perspectives.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Huh