[Class build] Lady of Pain - the b!tch is back

[Lampros]

On 7/4/2018 at 2:18 AM, Boeroer said:

Whisper of the Endless Paths was nerfed in 1.1. It does half the damage to the initial target now as it used to.

 

The deprecated tag was put on request of the OP. Actually he wanted me to remove the build from the list entirely - I went for a deprecated tag instead. It will eventually be removed from the list at some point if nothing changes.

 

Run Through only hits the initial target and procs no cone. It has very high base damage though (works well with lots of dmg mods sure as Backstab) and its prone effect lasts a long time (compared to others).

Would this build work with Karaboru and a few modifications in today's turn-based environment?

Also, does Raised Torment work with weapons? If yes, then is Clear Out redundant if one were to modify this build?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Lampros

[Boeroer]

Raised Torment's AoE does not proc weapons' on-hit/-crit effects and doesn't apply ability or modal effects like Clear Out does. 

[Haplok]

Note Clear Out targets Fortitude, so crits aren't particularly likely without heavy enemy debuffing against most enemies.

[Lampros]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Raised Torment's AoE does not proc weapons' on-hit/-crit effects and doesn't apply ability or modal effects like Clear Out does. 

Ah, ok.

 

3 hours ago, Haplok said:

Note Clear Out targets Fortitude, so crits aren't particularly likely without heavy enemy debuffing against most enemies.

Got it. What are the best available ways to debuff Fortitude? What about Stunning Surge? I was planning on abusing the stun abilities of the Monk

Also, guys, is high Deflection self-defeating as a Monk, because you want to get hit? What is the best way to get Wounds other than getting hit?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Lampros

[Haplok]

Well, good news is there are quite many ways. Best is probably morningstar modal (-25). 

Monk has Enervating Blows and... yes, Stunning Surge (graze will simply have a shorter effect).

In any case Stunning Blows/Surge is different from Clear Out/Mule Kick in that the attack roll works as usual and still targets Deflection (or Reflex if using mortars) and you only test Fortitude for the CC effect. 

Forbidden Fist also has its... titular ability (which trumps Enervating Blows, so probably not worth it to pick them on a FF).

Different classes have different abilities. Barbarian has some abilities that aoe Daze. Cipher has early Secret Horrors, later Borrowed Instinct and finally Mind Plague. As I understand, Chanter has some neat ones, that can be applied semi-passively.

 

A traditional monk does want to get hit a bit (in a controlled manner). But a tanky build suits a Forbidden Fist well (there exists synergy with high Resolve stat, which a FF wants to max in order to reduce hostile effect durations, gain wounds and heal and to be able to spam FF more).

Edited October 16, 2020 by Haplok

[Lampros]

15 minutes ago, Haplok said:

A traditional monk does want to get hit a bit (in a controlled manner). But a tanky build suits a Forbidden Fist well (there exists synergy with high Resolve stat, which a FF wants to max in order to reduce hostile effect durations, gain wounds and heal and to be able to spam FF more).

 

The problem with Monk for me - other than my general ignorance of the class - is that I play turn-based; and that means I will have trouble generating Wounds, because most things will be crowd controlled early on, and I will not get hit much. Fighter/Monk also means I will have high Deflection, with Refreshing Defense on most of the time. (Do Fighter/Monk builds ignore this ability?) So is there an alternative way to generate Wounds than getting hit?

Also, Mortifications cannot generally be regenerated, correct?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Lampros

[Ivanfyodorovich]

16 minutes ago, Lampros said:

So is there an alternative way to generate Wounds than getting hit?

Yep. Forbidden fist does not gain wounds from taking damage. They only gain wounds when a hostile effect expires on them. That includes their main ability they get at level 1, which puts a self damaging debuff on them. They are the ideal Brawler tank subclass. Make sure you max out resolve, but Clarity of Agony also does wonders. Tuotillo's Palm has great synergy, too (the deflection per wound upgrade). You can add some items to help increase wound generation (Hylea's Claw). If you search Forbidden Fist here, you can find some great discussions on how to maximize their unique abilites. 

[Lampros]

6 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Yep. Forbidden fist does not gain wounds from taking damage. They only gain wounds when a hostile effect expires on them. That includes their main ability they get at level 1, which puts a self damaging debuff on them. They are the ideal Brawler tank subclass. Make sure you max out resolve, but Clarity of Agony also does wonders. Tuotillo's Palm has great synergy, too (the deflection per wound upgrade). You can add some items to help increase wound generation (Hylea's Claw). If you search Forbidden Fist here, you can find some great discussions on how to maximize their unique abilites. 

Hmm, max out Resolve? That sounds very unattractive Also, what is the self-damaging debuff called? I'd liked to look it up. In general, I would still imagine Wound generation would be slow, if I have to rely on debuffs expiring. Keep in mind that I play turn-based; and you get hit and debuffed far less than real-time - as far as I've experienced.

I will look up Hylea's Claw. Thanks!

[Ivanfyodorovich]

7 minutes ago, Lampros said:

Hmm, max out Resolve? That sounds very unattractive Also, what is the self-damaging debuff called? I'd liked to look it up. In general, I would still imagine Wound generation would be slow, if I have to rely on debuffs expiring. Keep in mind that I play turn-based; and you get hit and debuffed far less than real-time - as far as I've experienced.

I will look up Hylea's Claw. Thanks!

Resolve is a funny stat. You either want to max it out, because you want high deflection, and every point gives increasing returns, or you want to dump it, because you gain very little from each point at lower levels of it. With FF and SC Paladin using Sacred Immolation, Resolve has the added effect of hugely mitigating a self-damage component of a signature ability, making it much better. A FF with high resolve can cast their Forbidden Fist ability on cool down, without worrying about the self-damage being too high. 

The debuff is called Forbidden Curse. 

I'm not sure how it works in TB, so you may need less resolve to cast Forbidden Fist on cooldown, gaining 1 wound per turn easily (on top of any other effects expiring). You might be able to get away with low resolve and instead just use Clarity of Agony to get it to 1 would per turn (though you have to spend 2 wounds on it every few turns). Forbidden Fist costs 0 wounds if you have 0 stacks of the Curse, and it deals great damage with a very strong debuff (enfeebled). 

[Boeroer]

Forbidden Fist with max RES (+ items and food that reduces hostile effect duration) is great. Tanky and offensively capable. Note that the enfeebled effect (which gets applied by the Forbidden Fists titular ability "Forbidden Fist" (who would have thought? Not me...) will not only lower Fortitude by 10 points and prevents healing completely it also prolongs all hostile effects on the enemy which is great for all CC and DoT stuff. I don't know how that works in TB mode but on RTwP it's really great. 

[thelee]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Forbidden Fist with max RES (+ items and food that reduces hostile effect duration) is great. Tanky and offensively capable. Note that the enfeebled effect (which gets applied by the Forbidden Fists titular ability "Forbidden Fist" (who would have thought? Not me...) will not only lower Fortitude by 10 points and prevents healing completely it also prolongs all hostile effects on the enemy which is great for all CC and DoT stuff. I don't know how that works in TB mode but on RTwP it's really great. 

i think the main downside is that you will always have the forbidden fist curse on yourself for a full round regardless of how good your resolve or low your intellect.

on the plus side, i think the +50% hostile debuff bonus on enfeebled will make it really easy to hit critical rounding thresholds.

[dgray62]

I don't play TB, but Haplok (who does, I believe, from his past posts), and he recently posted a FF variant of Frykas' Shadowdrugon shadowdancer build. I suspect that a FF brawler would be fine on TB, but I'm sure Haplok could give a more informed opinion on this. One nice thing with a FF brawler is you would have a lot of inspirations built in, namely intuitive (from disciplined strikes), tenacious (from thunderous blows), smart (from enlightened agony) and quick plus an action speed bonus and a chance to repeat attacks on crit from swift flurry. You would also get fearless, which is great for a FF, who needs to avoid resolve afflictions, and this would enable you to pick a race other than wild orlan. You could pick nature godlike instead, for a near permanent +1 PL boost, once you get thunderous blows, since this ability depends on the 100% renewable wounds resource. You could also pick tactician, in which case you could skip enlightened agony, as you'd be able to get brilliant pretty easily, especially if you have a cipher and/or wizard in the party. If you pick tactician, you'd want to get squid's grasp ASAP to get immunity to flanked, and wield it in your offhand with the modal on for more frequent swift flurry procs. And you might as well wield Grave Calling in your main hand; the party friendly chill fogs when you slay vessels will help proc brilliant. This would be a very sturdy and powerful build, IMO. Uh oh, I sense the onset of another bout of restartitis......

Edited October 17, 2020 by dgray62
Addition of new ideas.

[elohinen]

8 hours ago, Lampros said:

 

The problem with Monk for me - other than my general ignorance of the class - is that I play turn-based; and that means I will have trouble generating Wounds, because most things will be crowd controlled early on, and I will not get hit much. Fighter/Monk also means I will have high Deflection, with Refreshing Defense on most of the time. (Do Fighter/Monk builds ignore this ability?) So is there an alternative way to generate Wounds than getting hit?

Also, Mortifications cannot generally be regenerated, correct?

At least on consoles, mortification of the soul ability is a free action in TB, meaning one can spam it as many times as one wants (or rather, has health) and I find keeping up enduring dance of death is quite easy too. Plus nalpasca get that passive wound regeration while high, but I guess you're looking to play different subclass (didn't read the whole thread, sorry).

[Lampros]

On 8/7/2018 at 4:19 PM, AndreaColombo said:

 

I did entertain the thought of going Devoted/Berserker on occasion, although Devoted/Helwalker eventually won out. The Brute can certainly be built to great effect, but it bothered me to miss out on +10 MIG (which is very consistent with the LoP concept) and +10 INT in exchange for a Carnage ability that isn't but the shadow of its PoE self. Granted, a Berserker brings more to the table than just Carnage, but especially at lower-levels I like Monk's abilities better.

 

 

Helwalker/Berserker wouldn't, in my opinion, make a great combination. Helwalker really needs Constant Recovery (and any other source of HoT) to offset the extra damage taken while hoarding wounds, and a Berserker would effectively replace it with DoT from Frenzy. The inability to see one's Health while being exposed to 50% extra damage also hurts, whereas Thunderous Blows wouldn't stack with Frenzy and you'd miss out on +2 Penetration. Paired with how meh Carnage is in Deadfire, I would still favor Devoted/Helwalker by several orders of magnitude. A case could be made for the Devoted/Berserker build as mentioned above, although the Brawler just pushes all the right buttons with me.

 

If you're willing to dual-wield, I suggest using sabres since you can always switch to the Monk's fists when facing highly-resistant or immune foes. Min's Fortune in your main hand, and any of the following (depending on availability and personal preference) in the off-hand: Scordeo's Edge, Grave's Calling, Beza's Toothed Blade. Since you would no longer need the Helm of the Falcon, you could replace it with Heaven's Cacophony for Avenging Storm, or Fair Favor (once you complete Serafen's quest) for extra damage with sabres. Two-Weapon Style instead of Two-Handed Style goes without saying.

 

I personally still prefer 2-handers, though I realize in Deadfire they are overwhelmingly inferior to dual-wielding since there's no DR and no way to reach 0 recovery.

Where exactly do I put your save for PoE 1 record?

[AndreaColombo]

1 hour ago, Lampros said:

Where exactly do I put your save for PoE 1 record?

Should be your equivalent of the following path:

C:\Users\User\Saved Games\Pillars of Eternity II\LegacyGameHistories

[Lampros]

7 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

Should be your equivalent of the following path:

C:\Users\User\Saved Games\Pillars of Eternity II\LegacyGameHistories

Thanks much!

[Haplok]

On 10/16/2020 at 9:21 PM, dgray62 said:

I don't play TB, but Haplok (who does, I believe, from his past posts), and he recently posted a FF variant of Frykas' Shadowdrugon shadowdancer build. I suspect that a FF brawler would be fine on TB, but I'm sure Haplok could give a more informed opinion on this. One nice thing with a FF brawler is you would have a lot of inspirations built in, namely intuitive (from disciplined strikes), tenacious (from thunderous blows), smart (from enlightened agony) and quick plus an action speed bonus and a chance to repeat attacks on crit from swift flurry. You would also get fearless, which is great for a FF, who needs to avoid resolve afflictions, and this would enable you to pick a race other than wild orlan. You could pick nature godlike instead, for a near permanent +1 PL boost, once you get thunderous blows, since this ability depends on the 100% renewable wounds resource. You could also pick tactician, in which case you could skip enlightened agony, as you'd be able to get brilliant pretty easily, especially if you have a cipher and/or wizard in the party. If you pick tactician, you'd want to get squid's grasp ASAP to get immunity to flanked, and wield it in your offhand with the modal on for more frequent swift flurry procs. And you might as well wield Grave Calling in your main hand; the party friendly chill fogs when you slay vessels will help proc brilliant. This would be a very sturdy and powerful build, IMO. Uh oh, I sense the onset of another bout of restartitis......

I think that'd work.

Although IF I decide to dilute the monk goodness and sacrifice the OP high Tier abilities, I'll probably do it with a heavy-hitter class (like a rogue) to give it more oomhp. That's why I liked Frykas' Shadowdrugon.

The offhand rapier is certainly a good choice for the Accuracy boost and Swift Flurry triggers. For more difficult fights can switch to Tuotilo's Palm.

I haven't tried playing my variant in turn-based though. Not sure how fast you can effectively spam the Forbidden Fist there or how long it takes to hostile effects to expire (minimum one round though, I guess).

I've only played Turn Based once. It was kinda neat with a bloodmage assassin main. But at the same time I've decided that I wouldn't want to play this mode with anything else then a caster. The action economy really sucks for martial characters who can't damage enemies passively off-turn (riposte/retaliation builds work well, at least with the CP). 

[Lampros]

Is there ever a case for taking Lightning Strikes over Swift Flurry for a 2H Devoted/Monk - or is Swift Flurry always strictly superior?

[AndreaColombo]

Swift Flurry is superior if you're going to crit a lot (i.e. you're stacking Accuracy and Hit-to-Crit conversion); otherwise, the lash from Lightning Strikes is going to net you more damage.

[Lampros]

31 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

Swift Flurry is superior if you're going to crit a lot (i.e. you're stacking Accuracy and Hit-to-Crit conversion); otherwise, the lash from Lightning Strikes is going to net you more damage.

I plan on going fairly high Accuracy; so I guess I will keep Swift Flurry per your build!

[Lampros]

On 10/18/2020 at 9:14 AM, AndreaColombo said:

Should be your equivalent of the following path:

C:\Users\User\Saved Games\Pillars of Eternity II\LegacyGameHistories

Is it normal to not start with Eder with your PoE 1 save? Or is my game bugged?

[AndreaColombo]

8 minutes ago, Lampros said:

Is it normal to not start with Eder with your PoE 1 save? Or is my game bugged?

Definitely not normal, but that legacy was created shortly after the game's release. There's a fair chance it won't work with 5.0.

It was nothing special, really. Just guaranteed to have the DoC breastplate and BoeTP, Gift From The Machine, and I can't remember exactly which Blood Pool sacrifice.

[Lampros]

1 minute ago, AndreaColombo said:

Definitely not normal, but that legacy was created shortly after the game's release. There's a fair chance it won't work with 5.0.

It was nothing special, really. Just guaranteed to have the DoC breastplate and BoeTP, Gift From The Machine, and I can't remember exactly which Blood Pool sacrifice.

Hmm, okay. Perhaps I ought to do my own then

[Lampros]

23 hours ago, AndreaColombo said:

Definitely not normal, but that legacy was created shortly after the game's release. There's a fair chance it won't work with 5.0.

It was nothing special, really. Just guaranteed to have the DoC breastplate and BoeTP, Gift From The Machine, and I can't remember exactly which Blood Pool sacrifice.

Just letting you know the save works. I suspect the first try was bugged for whatever reason. I've re-started thrice since then, and Eder appeared each time. And nothing else seems amiss.

Once again, thank you. And now I will enjoy the build as the main character!

[Lampros]

I can't believe the author wanted to put this build on the "deprecated" list. I am not completely through my run yet (level 17), but this is by far the best all-around melee DPS build I've tried. I am doing AoE caster-like damage by spamming Clear Out and Torment's Reach; and Swift Flurry and Karaboru keep triggering. (I guess it helps that I have 80-plus percent crit rate even on PoTD.) While I will experiment with, say, different tank or different CC builds in the future, I don't think I can ever go to a different melee DPS build in the future!