Namutree

Yes. It's going to be a far better game than DA2. The *base* mechanics and features that they've already shown alone are enough to raise DA:I above the DA2 benchmark, regardless of how well (or poorly) they're implemented. (talking about the open-ish world, race options, strongholds, crafting). Also, Bioware's best is pretty darn good. IF this is what they're gonna give us with DA:I then look for a game that turns heads and silences the critics. But that's a HUGE if. And we all know it. No rational gamer can ignore recent history. Bioware's last 3 titles were underwhelming, in both quality and sales. One game? It's a fluke. 2 games? That's cause for concern. But 3 games in a row that fail to live up to a company's standards? This means something is broken. And it's a significant leap of faith to assume that DA:I will just suddenly come out and turn everything around. Faith I don't have...especially after seeing the game play demos and the NPC quotes on the Bioware webside...which illustrate the lousy artstyle they've decided to keep. The JRPGish combat, and the silly NPC quotes. Conclusion: I predict a polished and improved DA2. Which may even be good enough to become Bioware's first 10 Million selling video game. But an Improved DA2 is not something that will get any of MY money and time. Well at least there's hope.

It's an easy mistake to make. Neither you or Volourn have profile pics AND you were both talking down ES role-playing. Makes it easy to confuse the two of you.

I'm sure it would help if the game was less immersion breaking. If it's any consolation; Skyrim does a better job of conveying a living world than most rpgs do. In most rpg's all the npc's do is stand around. In Skyrim the people have do things like: Go to work, go to sleep, eat, and talk with friends. Bethesda can't program everything possible into the game. That is a unrealistic standard. Unless you apply that standard to other rpgs and if you do all rpgs have bad role-playing; I'm going to discount it.

You keep editing this post and I keep agreeing more and more. I wonder though; do you think there's any hope for Dragon Age: Inquisition?

That's mechanical; not role-playing. Simply by noticing your race and asking questions like, "Why would you, an elf; help us?" is role-playing. When you go to the mage's guild as a nord the nord student is glad to see another nord. That's role-playing. When you go to windhelm as a human and are asked if you hate dark elves. That's role-playing. Things aren't too different mechanically (though they are a bit different), but for role-play it makes a huge difference. Role-playing isn't just about what you can say by the way. It is also what you can do, and in Skyrim there's a lot you can do.

Using your own imagination for roleplaying? How to even address this... Next you'll complain about having to drive in NASCAR.

Each ES game is different and the issue was RECENTLY Bethesda has been better for role-playing than Bioware. In SKYRIM race matters and people do in fact react to your race often. Don't believe me? Try to join the Stormcloaks as an Altmer; they will notice you're one of those "damn elves" that they hate so much. That is one of many examples of race affecting role-play. The way you complete quests can make a huge difference. Try playing the Dawnguard questline. One path has you slay the vampires,and another path can turn you into a vampire lord. How is that barely different? Dialog trees can lead to conversations about politics or just general lore; both affect role-play. I could go on, but I won't.

Important two words here. THE CHARACTER. Not YOUR character; THE character. Who are you in Skyrim? Whoever you want to be. That's role-playing. Who are you in DA2? Hawk. That isn't role-playing.

Whether or not you like it doesn't change the fact that Skyrim has more role-playing options. 1: Race in Skyrim does matter. It affects you mechanically and it affects how certain npcs react to you. 2: How are the responses poorly written? Did you even play Skyrim? Also responses do matter. Different choices can change quests and rewards. Not to mention their very presence affects role-playing. 3: If you think that a game world, where can go, and whom you can talk to are boring that's fine. They are still vital to role-playing whether or not you think they are boring. It seems you think role-playing is boring, but still doesn't change this truth: Skyrim is objectively better than DA2 for role-playing. If that doesn't tickle your fancy because it's "trash"; oh well.

I recently had a nightmare about DA2. I kept pushing a button, but awesome wasn't happening. Thank goodness it was just a terrible dream... or was it?

BG1 is their worst game for role-playing? What drugs are you on? There was plenty of room for role-play. Now, let's compare the role playing options of a recent Bioware game like, DA2 vs Skyrim. Races: DA2-Must be a human. Skyrim-Plenty of races. Dialog: DA2-Stupid dialog wheel doesn't even let you know what you are going to say. Skyrim-Text responses; much better for role-playing. Game Pace: DA2-Stuck in a town and can only talk to highlighted npcs. Skyrim- Big open world, can go anywhere you want, and can talk to whomever you want. Seems like Skyrim decimates DA2 on the role-playing front. Heck, DA2 doesn't even let you decide how you look!

I'm not against Bioware making games that are different. However, if you want a new game design philosophy; make a new IP. Because DA2 was so different from DA:O, we never got an actual sequel. DA2 should have been a new IP all together.

In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware. You don't like Bethesda games? Fair enough, but that doesn't mean that the previous statement was untrue.

How is that ironic? Stun didn't say Greg Zeschuk was poor or anything.

What bioware used to do and what bioware does now has nothing to do with what people used to blast them for. I'm one of the old-schoolers, and, of course Bioware will do things differently given the numerous, and legitimate accusations on the account of DA2/ME3. The only reason DA:O turned out good was because that game was a very, very long time in the making. EA still screwed up the DLC (a merchant offering you DLC in your camp, just shows how much they are keen on selling it), but overall I was plesantly surprised. I tried the ARGHHHH version before buying DA2. And boy was I glad I didn't buy it, they ruined everything that made DA:O good. But that makes sense because DA:O wasn't really a game catering to the masses, which is a big, big no-no when it comes to EA. Need to make that game retard proof right? Inbred rednecks have to beat it on normal otherwise it's too complicated. Don't forget blatant dungeon recycling, superficial "romances" and "fast-paced", "visceral" combat! How about some of that gay sex? Don't mind if I do, and get ready for DA3's "fully gay" (actual quote) character. It would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious. So yeah, what's left of Bioware is nothing, they're just a husk about to crumble beneath EAs gargantuan ****, after witch they'll promptly jump on the next studio and drive it into the ****ing ground like they did with the previous ones. I think you blame EA far too much. The truth is, Bioware WANTED to become what they are. Bioware deserves 100% of the blame. To act as if EA is even partially responsible is to cut the real culprits slack.

Don't worry about it. Let's just discuss the merits of an idea without any agenda to ensure what type of romances will added via mod. I will add though that I think the letter discussion has run it's course. There's no need to worry about getting that traditional romance style you want. Plenty of mods will be made by others and considering how many people want romance; I am confident there will at least 20 romance mods a year after poe comes out.

I should say that I don't feel that the letter idea is better; just that it's different in a way I feel would be interesting. If I ever do add it; I'll keep it as I originally pitched it. Just as a part of your biography/background and add a few new dialog options in-game. Now that I think of it; I'd probably just make a whole bunch of new biography options and make the, "I'm married" just one of them. Then I'll call the compilation the, "Extra Bio" pack.

Honestly, though, that particular example of letter-writing sounds like an overly convoluted typical romance dialogue. Again, not that letter-writing is inherently bad, but it does seem to be a bit more difficult to intertwine the whole romance/relationship thing and the lore/world/narrative when the only interactions you ever have with said person comes in the form of isolated letter-writing. Romance needs to get away from being an intermission amid the rest of the game. I disagree. Sometimes a change of pace can be very refreshing. I'm not saying that romances MUST be an intermission, but there are advantages to have them serve as one. Also, I'd have to object that the letter system in my example was all that convoluted. It was actually pretty simple. Oh, wait. You were responding to Nonek's example. My bad.

Another romance idea that would be neat is if you could romance a npc who isn't in the party. After you are "together" your love interest moves into your stronghold. That could lead to some interesting stronghold events/quests.

In the case of the distant wife/husband scenario I'm thinking that you can write letters to your spouse and receive letters in return. Kinda like this: Let's say you're in your stronghold; by some table or whatever there could be a stack of paper. You click on the paper and the game asks: Do want to write a letter? Your options are yes/no. If yes; you'll get a few options. Kinda like this: 1) Write a witty letter. 2) Write a reassuring letter. 3) Write a romantic letter. Etc. Afterwards, you have some servant npc deliver it for a bit of gold. In a few days (or weeks depending on how many in-game days go by during a normal play-through) you receive a letter from your beloved. Your spouse's letter will be different based on how you chose to write yours. Plenty of interactivity. Also, I should note that in a few conversations with npcs you can mention that you are married.

You know what would be hilarious for romance mods? An Npc of Josh Sawyer in one of the towns. Whenever the pc talks to him you could bring up romance, and if you do he says, "I'm not a huge fan of romance." Then suddenly the romance is instantly gone.

Speaking as a young married man, I have to say that the inability to cast yourself as a married person(even if your spouse is never depicted in the game and remains abstract) is a little unfortunate. Or as a widow/widower if that's more convenient and economical from a writing standpoint. I don't think this would be applicable because Romance is optional, so I'm battling understand why you would want to be married in a RPG but never meet your wife or have no interaction with her? If this is a reason to not Romance then the solution should be to just not follow any Romance options? It could simply be a biography choice. Early in the game where you are asked about the past you could say, "I've got a wife/husband back home." Then once in a while you could receive a letter at your stronghold from your wife/husband. Heck, that would be pretty neat. I think I might add that via mod. It would certainly be a unique romance mod.

I disagree that Jade Empire would fall into the mini-game category. The primary focus in the Jade Empire romances was whether or not you convinced the love interest to remain open-palm, or become closed-fist. Actually getting them to love you was pretty much a given.

Don't get me wrong, I understand wanting to shake things up a bit because the current format of romances doesn't really work. But... NPCs are supposed to be their own person. Is it really such a problem that they might not like you? That would be funny if in poe2 they let you start what seems like a romance, but then the npc just says he/she just doesn't like you. It's wouldn't be a good idea, but it would make me laugh. I'd call it a Trollmance!

In the case of Jade Empire; the Sky romance fit the mood pretty well. After you defeated Death's Hand; you get to kiss Sky all dramatic like. It really made that moment of triumph feel even more epic. It was perfect timing; a dramatic kiss in a dramatic moment. If Bioware had managed to keep that level of quality in its future romances; romances would have a much better reputation.