Amentep

Yeah I agree there's nothing wrong with the approach the IE or NWN took. I understand why Obs is doing PoE with Quest XP (because, I think, its an easier to implement high-level solution than micromanaging each Kill/Stealth/Diplomatic XP reward). Whether Quest XP as Obsidian designs it turns out to be equivalent or not (from a player's perspective) to how Kill XP would be done (for the fighting player) is the big question. I think, if a fighter approach can still get XP for a fighter approach and get fighter specific rewards (ie unique rewards off of enemy equipment not available to stealth or diplomatic solutions) I think it might be okay. Dunno.

I'm not disagreeing that there were other ways to "solve" the problem (assuming you accept there was a problem). I was merely trying to clarify what the problem was as stated by the devlopers. A thief had so much more viability in non-combat roles then any class. Don't short change them please. You say that thieves could only: Pickpocket, Disarm Traps, Open Locks and scout ahead as if it's a bad thing? A mage would blow an entire tier of spells to keep knocking chests and fighters are supposed to eat the traps? Sure you could play it that way. I did play through BG2 with a cleric casting Find Trap, a Mage Knocking and a fighter absorbing traps. But, at the end of day, ultimately the player of a thief character - despite the utility there was in their skills (again not as much as P&P) they were ultimately forced into a combat role (which I think was better served by fighters and mages). Actually I'm not making the assumption that you're playing solo. Given that we know PoE is using skills and that anyone can buy the stealth skill (like in 3.5 D&D rules used in IWD2), it could in theory be possible to have a group entirely adequate at stealthing past enemies. BUT they couldn't talk their way out of situations like they can in P&P. I'm not surprised people don't like Sacred 3, not surprised at all. I admit to a high level of tolerance for action RPGs (or even just isometric or top down action games). That said you can spend money to buy segments on a progression trees for every talent and item you equip, so it has a progression system (even if a weird one). I have no clue what the DLC is other than two areas and the "free" DLC of the 5th character (a stupid decision, IMO).

His legendary failure at Gamescon must be immortalized somehow. If not as a pet, anybody still have a gravestone or such that they don't know what to do with? Here Lies Adam, Killed By Beetles. "Adam did not Get Back from the Beetles" "Adam Imagined, Beetles came" There was ease in Adam's manner as he stepped out to travel from this place; There was pride in Adam's bearing and a smile on Adam's face. And when, responding to the crowds come to see him over that last hill crest, he saluted such that no stranger in the crowd could doubt 'twas Adam at his best. Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright; The bards are playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light, And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout; But there is no joy for Adam - mighty beetles had taken him out. (Apologies to Earnest Thayer)

Officially there is no romance in PoE. The developers have promised interesting and reactive NPCs with their own stories and motives, but none of them will have a romantic sequence with the PC.

The problem wasn't just that "stealthers" had a fear of missing out on XP, the problem was that "stealthers" had no way to earn XP to continue being Stealthy as the game progressed. At which point they had to resort to combat for which they didn't have the experience (because it was almost exclusively tied to killing things) to progress. Now a valid argument is that's the way the IE games worked, there was never an expectation that you could stealth (or diplomat) your way through it. But it also made the thief kind of pointless as they really only served to scout, disarm traps and open locks (which could be done by a mage, if you want to spend their talents that way, but the mage could still have combat versitality). Sure, they could backstab, but (IMO) their utility in combat was relatively limited - the bulk of it was made up in the fighter and magic user classes. It made the Bard even more pointless - what's the good of being a gimped mage/thief if you can't be diplomatic like your class is intended?

I'm not sure I can agree with this. There has to be some incentive for doing anything in a game (otherwise its an option that will never be used and its inclusion is pointless). The real issue (as I see it) is between those who feel like Kill XP is a superior incentive for combat and not having it is a disincentive (or at least at risk of being such if the design is poor) vs those who feel that not having Kill XP can be managed by other rewards (loot drops, engaging combat and tactics that are enjoyable, combat based lore, etc).

I have absolutely no interest in showing up and posting to this thread.

Man...people actually care about that? Weird.

A perfect example why Sacred is probably a dead franchise as of Sacred 3. A RPG game that is combat focused with almost no progression is about as boring as watching paint dry. We are now comparing apples to oranges again.. but so is Gauntlet.. By Josh's logic.. Combat in Sacred 3 should be fun enough on it's own.. No need to bribe players with silly things like Item drops.. They should just enjoy stomping the **** out of stuff and call it a day. Don't like my decision? Don't buy the game. Heh, I'm enjoying Sacred 3 so far (but it is early yet). But then I like button mashing games (I've like almost all of the Gauntlet games, for example). The biggest problem I have isn't the weird progression (you have progression on skills, armor and weapons, and being able to "refund" skill buys allows you to easily try out different build advancement) but that its a Diablo-like game with almost no loot to speak of. 'Tis a weird approach. Mind you I thought Sacred 2's combat wasn't much to write home about (although there's something almost zen about wiping out mobs there, and I admit the blowdart sound is pretty nice to hear wiping out enemies that you can't even see on screen. "Foop, foop, foop" then collect the loot.). Edit: And really, I'm looking for Unbended to give me what I like about the Sacred series.

I don't disagree. The problem with the current way that many choices (and I think Bioware has been particularly bad at this but so have many others) are binary is a problem; the more choices that have nuanced reactions the better. But I'd also argue outcomes shouldn't be binary either, and that's also another problem. Its even worse when you're given two to three choices but what choice you make is irrelevant, the game is going to force a situation on you. At least in the case of the romances you can end it or accept it rather than be railroaded into it.

How did it suck? In your example, your FemShep was (minorly) defined by your refusal to lower her standards. You weren't given a CHASTITY Achievement or whatever it is that gamers seem to be obsessed with collecting, but the fact that you made that choice was only possible because there was a choice there for you to refuse to accept. Instead of feeling locked out with respect to content, I'd argue it'd be a chance to - sometime down the line - create a different character who would embrace different choices. First time through DA:O I didn't save Sten because my character couldn't forgive his blatant murder. Second time through, I had a character who was more sympathetic and saved him. In both cases the choice for the character were valid; did I miss out on stuff not having Sten? Sure. But I was still able to play my character my way.* *in as much as the game allowed within its framework, of course.

Maybe if you play videogames and you're not cool...its not the videogames I kid, I kid. You know you're cool.

Ravel's clearly in love with TNO and they clearly had a relationship in the past (I don't think there's anything that indicates it was sincere on TNO's part, rather than a way to get out of his fate). That said you don't romance Ravel in the game, sure, but that past relationship motivates everything. But really surprised in all of your mocking there you missed Acaste, clearly the scarred and dead looking TNO and her was a match made in...er...a crypt or something.

Well if you didn't like the KOTOR combat, I can see why you didn't like DA:O on console. I was neutral on it; wasn't something that attracted or repelled me from the game.

I don't understand why (or when) we've somehow allowed the promancers to convince us that PS:T had romances when it did not. Dieonarra is not a romance. She is a plot device designed to provoke the emotion of regret. She's also a Ghost (a specter, to use the official D&D undead species-type) If she's a romance then so is Dakkon, and Vhailor, and Ignus, since all three of them were also plot devices designed to provoke regret. But if we must grotesquely broaden the term "romance" so that every single well written NPC ever created falls into the definition, then yes, I liked all 6 or 7 of PS:T's "romances". But I'm not going to play that silly word-play game. PS:T did not have romances. Promancers are trying to take territory that does not belong to them and their cause. I thought Ravel was the Romance in PST - she clearly loved TNO in the past, and it kind of motivates the whole thing. Know a lot of people claim there's a romance with FALL-FROM-GRACE (don't see it) and Annah (which I'd say really is more of the beginning of a possible romance if TNO didn't off-it to the Blood War, it could have happened, I guess).

I didn't find Console DAO to be that different from the other Bio Console games, really. (TIA: I never played DAO on PC; I did play the KOTOR's on PC and Console and JE. KOTOR combat was real similar to DAO's on a console, IMO).

Named her after Princess Zelda from the LEGEND OF ZELDA series, according to her dad.

I can't say I really understand the dislike for Antje Traue here

Maybe they should've used more faux-Welsh words. "Mae'r swm amgaeëdig yn cynnwys cost cludiant" said the NPC. "What the **** did he say?" thinks the non-Welsh player. "What's he going on about postage for?" think the Welsh player.

"Let's see... I'm just gonna lob that lightning bolt over the wall... Seems legit!" Off the expressway, over the river, off the billboard, through the window, off the wall...nothing but net.* *see

BIG HEAD MODE!

There is something to be said for familiarity IMO. The setting is already new and the game mechanics will take some getting used to. Most of us know what the "blue plus sign" does(heal) so it's one less thing to try and figure out. Besides how many different ways can you really put haste or heal into an icon...just google haste icon and....yup most people use boots with wings or something similar. I do understand how people may think it is out of place though since the setting is more dark/stoney. The icons are pretty bright and colorful. IIRC way back in the mists of time, it was stated that Obsidian bought the art assets from Icewind Dale. My guess is they'd reuse those icons for similar spell types to save development time and cost.

So...do you create romance mods for NWN? I kid, I kid... ...Put the knife down!

The closest meaning to how gamers use it for immersion is "deep mental involvement". This meaning for the word was typically used to reference the idea of being surrounded by concepts that one was totally invested in. For example if you were studying ancient Greece intently with every waking moment, you could be said to be immersed in ancient Greek culture or history. For the sake of argument, I'd suppose that one could make a claim that certain game elements may effect ones "deep mental involvement" in the game/game world, but to be honest 90% of people I see saying "X broke my immersion" are just saying "it didn't give me what I wanted, so I don't like it." They might as well say "it bent my Wookie" as much as "it broke my immersion".

^I've always suspected that there are some business people who see a short lifespan mega gain now as better than a long lifespan good gain over a longer period of time. Its why, I think, there are some business people who seem only interested in getting as much money as they can before running the business in the ground then going to the next business to do the same with. That said, I do agree that LoL has the player base it does now because of how they're doing things now and I think he's optimistic to think his changes wouldn't kill the money stream dead.