Cantousent

Okay, I've received word from various people regarding this thread. I've received both PMs and emails. This thread is alive right now because I have faith in you guys to discuss the issues. However, if I am forced to close this thread, which I would very much like to keep open, because of harsh words or personal attacks, then I will give an official warning to the person who put me in such a position. Don't bypass the language filter. Don't call each other names. Don't make me clean up this one horse thread. You'd be amazed at how much extra work this thread is. I've received three reports in regards to this thread already. Stop trying to one-up one another and stick to the issues. What's bad is the thread really isn't all that rowdy. I mean, I've received three reports on this thread and one entire thread elsewhere that amounts to the same as a report and yet it really doesn't seem that bad. Yes, my numbered friend was completely out of line to bypass the filter. Other than that one slip, numbers has contributed to the discussion as a whole. The discourse has been more or less resonable. Get a grip on yourselves and enjoy the debate. If I am forced to turn sheriff because of cowboy rowdiness, I'm going to lay down the law. :Eldar's angry like he's going to turn all sheriff on the members icon:

Thanks, Mus? for the restraint. I'm glad you decided not to post the "War God" lyrics. I've deleted some lyrics, as is inevitible. This is probably my favorite thread. Keep the lyrics coming and I'll simply delete those that are out of line for this particular forum. Thanks, all, for participating.

okay, you got me on that one.

Now now, Commissar, this isn't a flame fest. I think some folks have gotten a bit rowdy from time to time, but this isn't exactly a foaming at the mouth debate. I'm surprised that it's been going so well. In fact, I have hopes that this thread will reach the thread length hall of fame and be closed for length rather than spam or flaming. I haven't had a chance to read everything yet today, but I'll read it all, as I do every thread in WoT. Hopefully it's been as reasoned a debate as I've seen thus far, even with my numbered friend giving you explicit instrunctions on how to handle your personal time. Then we can close this one and open part two. As for what I have read so far today, I thought the Simpsons reference was clever, but the "holier than thou" charge is just flat. After all, if I were being holier than thou, then meta was donning the vestments right along with me. In fact, I think you've engaged in a little holy rolling of a different sort yourself. Just a quick thought before I go back to read the rest of the thread.

As you can probably see, I edited the thread and culled all the trolling discussion. Please enjoy the thread. If you don't like the topic, enjoy one of the many other topics here in WoT or start a new topic yourself.

Well, this is a picture of my desktop. I know some of you fellows have to have a better winning streak, but I've recently discovered FreeCell and I managed to get a 20 win streak. Now I will post it so I can gloat. :Eldar's gloating icon:

Ha! Touche, you dog. I can't come up with anything right now, but I'll mull it over and return to attack later. Maybe after some sleep. We'll solve all the worlds problems some day. hahaha

Comedy, meta. Absolutely ingenious. Is that like thread necromancy or thread possession? Oops, I thought you were being sneaky and pasting in quotes from a different thread. I actually liked the "has been" episode, though.

overrated: the Life of Brian underrated: the Life of Brian I organized a Classics movie night at UCR and had a showing of the Life of Brian. Some folks were more amused than others.

Now I see why you resort to analogy as often as you do. It's easier to take someone else's argument and derive a message he did not intend. It simplifies your point. For instance, I write: "[e]ither someone will have that land or no-one will. In either case, there is no compelling claim the Palestinians can make that convinces me that they deserve the land more the Israelis." You respond with: "...you have just elucidated a precedent for genocide. (after all, if the people are all dead, then there's no-one to argue the point, eh?)" Your conclusion does not follow from my statement. In other words, you're responding to something I did not say. This is a sort of shell game, not a real argument. Mental gymnastics will only get you so far. Some-one will have the land or not. Perhaps, neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis will own the land. Perhaps the land will go unused and yet neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis will suffer genocide. I write: "...historical arguments concerning who should get what land just seem a little too convoluted for my tastes." to which you respond: "'It's too hard, so let's just forget it and make something up.' Did I miss anything from your theory?" Why, yes, meta, you did miss something. I'm not turning my back on a solution, just a solution based on convoluted, exaggerated, subjective, and often inaccurate historical arguments. See, that's another example of the shell game. You make up an argument, attribute it to me, and then argue against your own shadow argument. Sure, it's a tried and true rhetorical tactic, but I would have thought better of you. Now, I will address a couple of issues. First of all, I sympathize more with the Israelis than I do the Palestinians. I

Does that mean it's all for the best to take something from someone and give it to someone else? Kind of like taxes, only with land, I guess. The Isreali children have a home and the Palestinian children don't have a natural right to own it. I disagree with the notion that the Palestinians have more right to the land than the Isrealis. You may feel free to disagree. Hell, I can't stop you from disagreeing, but historical arguments concerning who should get what land just seem a little too convoluted for my tastes. Using a boat analogy when we are, indeed, talking about actual human beings who live in an actual place and live under the threat from other actual human beings seems a bit ridiculous. The Israeli children living in the occupied territories have just as much right to the land as anyone else. Furthermore, they actually live there. I'm taking nothing from Palestinian children that they have in the first place. Either someone will have that land or no-one will. In either case, there is no compelling claim the Palestinians can make that convinces me that they deserve the land more than the Israelis. If the Palestinians weren't so busy making themselves the sworn enemies of the Israelis, then Palestinian children would have far more opportunity to reach beyond the ghetto. It's not the land that keeps the Palestinians in squalor, but the terrorists themselves, all of whom would rather see a seething, suffering Palestine than to lose the prospect of recruiting more terrorists.

overrated: trying to be different just because underrated: being yourself no matter what abysmal: acting as if everybody should be different when, in reality, we are all the same.

Okay, let's not get off topic. Anyhow, taks, you've got Lucius at a disadvantage since he must wait for me to put through his posts. It's not exactly sporting, you know. Now, let's get back to bashing or defending the UN rather than each other.

cut out the flame baiting, folks. Don't use up all your flame now or you won't have any left for the mid-term elections.

Well, on the flipside, you're right in saying that it is undoubtedly in the child's best interest to remove them from a life-threatening situation. I mean, whether the boat is sinking or under atttack, it's not exactly like standing on dry land. Anyhow, it's such an ugly situation that even most Americans give it a lot of attention.

Don't be intentionally obstruse. Throughout the thread, folks have claimed the Jews have no right to the settled areas, but it isn't just the folks who decided to come into the area to settle. It includes children who have known no other home. Meanwhile, some of the Palestinians trying to dislocate the settlers where born after the land was settled by the Israelis. It's not a clear cut issue of one person having claim while the other does not. As for you boat claim, huh? If you're claiming that the being born on a sinking boat is the equivalent for being born in the settled areas, you're displaying a simplicity I rarely see from you. Apparently, the folks in the settled areas don't see the boat as sinking, only under attack.

The settled areas provide homes for the children born there. They have just as much right to those homes as anyone. In the US, you are a citizen if you are born here. ...Well, aside from the weird arrangement regarding native Americans which was changed, I believe. So, if a pregnant woman comes across the border illegally and gives birth, the infant is considered a citizen.

I think he was joking. Then again, taks is a hardcore capitalist, so nothing burns him more than a commie. :Eldar's shaking his head about the nature of commies and capitalists icon:

First of all, I hope folks go back to read some of Lucius' newly visible posts. The Prussian one was actually quite funny. Second of all, please don't start calling each other anit-semites and racists and such. If someone's post seems questionable you, be assured that it probably seems questionable to others. If someone's post is outright racist, they'll undoubtedly be warned and the post culled, so no biggie. Finally, what about Jewish children born in the settled areas? I know you guys have discussed this in the thread, but it seems to be the best response to the idea that the Jews have no right to be in the settled areas. Does that include children who had no control over where they were born? meta sometimes bristles at American indifference, but the Israel and Palestine conflict is certainly an object of concern to most Americans.

The point isn't that we should get nukes. The point is that we have them. That we have them is no reason that others should get them. In fact, if we did not have them, others would probably say we should not get them. heh, untangle all that, I dare you. We don't have nukes because we deserve them. We have nukes because we made them. Having made them, it makes sense that we don't want others to get them. ...And mutually assured destruction only works if the other fellow doesn't want to see his wife and children nuked. If he doesn't care, then the idea of mutually assured destruction only assures us that we will mutually destroy each other.

I couldn't agree more. I think partisan politics is destroying this country. No one cares about admitting mistakes, or doing what is right. Everything is about supporting your party line no matter what, and spinning things to make the other party look bad. If the other party is going to pass legislation that will help this country, you better ruin it before they get a political victory! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We've found something we can agree on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huzzah, and there was much rejoicing! Although I don't know that taking stock of a situation for seven minutes constitutes doing nothing.

I'm the one who said taks is a great member of the community. Of course, I must think that you are also, Lucius, else I wouldn't sign off on all your posts. Some of you might notice that I've changed the word "retarded" to "ridiculous" in the title. I did so because, after reviewing the guidelines, it seems to me that retarded might be an innately offensive term, even if it is leveled at no particular member of these fora. as always, I endeavor to find the least offensive word that best conveys the original meaning.

Rebuttal: If I were an atheist, Democracy would be my religion.

Okay, deleted the psychotic murderer post, although I did find it oddly compelling as a story. Here's a song I heard just about twenty minutes ago. It took me back to Korea sometime during 1988. Cherry blossoms and pretty Korean girls... Every Rose Has Its Thorn By Poison, from the CD: Open Up And Say... Ahh! We both lie silently still In the dead of the night Although we both lie close together We feel miles apart in side Was it something I said Or something I did Did my words not come out right? Though I tried not to hurt you Though I tried But I guess that's why the say Every rose has its thorn Just like every night has its dawn Just like very cowboy sings a sad, sad song Every rose has its thorn, yeah it does I list to our favorite song on the radio Hear the DJ say love's a game of easy come... and easy go But I wonder does he know? Has he ever felt like this? And I know that you'd be here right now If I could've let you known somehow Every rose has its thorn Just like every night has its dawn Just like very cowboy sings a sad, sad song Every rose has its thorn Though it's been a while now I can still feel so much pain Like the knife it cuts you, the wound heals But the scar.. that scar remains I know I could've saved our love that night If I'd known what to say Instead of making love... we both made our separate ways And now I hear you found somebody new And that I never meant that much to you To hear that tears me up inside And to see you cuts me like a knife I guess every rose has its thorn Just like every night has its dawn Just like every cowboy sings a sad, sad song Every rose has its thorn Wow, am I so different now?

It seems an unusually large portion of our board population has seen Dr. Strangelove. Notice that the UN was completely powerless in that film also.