Ulicus

See, it all depends how you interpret the scene. It was "Force Foreplay" in my game. ... I just shouldn't say anything should I?

True, but Atton was an assassin trained to kill Jedi and even the Sith with whom he worked had a hard time detecting his presence. I imagine he could use the same tactics to Sion that he used on Jedi: Don't get close to them, gun down their allies - there's even ways of "gassing them, torturing them," etc. I mean, Atton was "really good at it." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, but that's like saying you think Atton could use those techniques to kill Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon/Anakin/Yoda/Mace/Palapatine/Vader that he used to kill random Jedi. Everyone knows that nameless/random Jedi (even random faceless Jedi Masters, like the dude who Jango Fett got- yeah he *was* a master, how ridiculous?) get killed, miss blaster shots and die a lot. Central protagonist/antagonist Jedi are invincible, hit every blaster shot with style unless fighting another Jedi at which point they lose limbs and get cut in half and scream "NOOO!!!" a lot. Sion was one of the big three Sith Lords. Atton was a main character, but a *fledgling* Jedi. So not really in the same league.

Hey, I'm just curious to see if GL ever commented on KotOR. I mean, considering the amount of people with the opinion, "It's the best star wars film ever made" (at least since the OT) I would think he'd be a bit like "Hey, they made a better pie with my ingredients, how'd they do that! I want a piece!"

At http://www.totalvideogames.com/pages/artic..._id=7197&page=3 (I mean the link is on teh Obsidian homepage so I'm sure you've all read it) Was this made up? If not.... that's pretty friggin awesome. Is there a quote from GL anywhere that even mentions KotOR I? I didn't think there was. Anyway, sorry for wasting everyone's time if this has already been discussed in a thread (I could probably have searched but... well I'm kinda trying to complete History coursework at the same time so ya'know... " ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting, maybe he will be personally involved in the development of KotOR III? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd much prefer a Darth Revan reference in Episode III... Preferably along the lines of: Yoda: A more powerful Jedi there has not been since Revan, and greatest amongst us was he. Yet fall to the Dark Side he did still... (in refence to Anakin) Or Palpatine (in this much vaunted "history of the Sith" talk he is meant to give Anakin) Darth Revan was the first to bear this title...

*points at ShadowPaladin in mock horror* GASP You're George Lucas!

True... and speaking of voices, where the hell was Yuthura? (Yeah, yeah, I know she could have died as well... but... damn)

How could Atton beat Sion exactly? Storywise I mean? He's been training for what? A few weeks... Sion's a friggin Sith Lord. Doesn't work that way unless you have what I like to call "The Skywalker Suffix" (ok, it's a surname but you know what I mean heh)... or if you're an amnesiac Dark Lord- that lets you get pretty awesome pretty fast too.

Sorry if this has been done to death- but... I just read this: At http://www.totalvideogames.com/pages/artic..._id=7197&page=3 (I mean the link is on teh Obsidian homepage so I'm sure you've all read it) Was this made up? If not.... that's pretty friggin awesome. Is there a quote from GL anywhere that even mentions KotOR I? I didn't think there was. Anyway, sorry for wasting everyone's time if this has already been discussed in a thread (I could probably have searched but... well I'm kinda trying to complete History coursework at the same time so ya'know... " )

I voted for Kreia just to spite you horrible, nasty, cruel and ageist people - and hell, NPCs all go on about her being hot in the past so I'll assume she can get some sort of anti-aging force power... Or something. Besides, it might give me enough influence with her to finally get her talking about Revan *grumbles* But I think really... that: Handmaiden is urm, ok. She grows on you I suppose. You can only see the bottom half of Visa's face... maybe miralukas have like, I dunno, monster top halves to their face. Or maybe she has a unibrow. Atris has hamster cheeks Mira is pretty ok too. ... where was the 19 year old Mission eh? (Well I know she could have died... but still ) Bastila was good because she scrunched up her face when talking to you all the time... scrunched up faces are awesome.

Where is the option that says "Revan *or* the Exile"? I really don't want to be switching characters in the game... this has gotten far to Legacy of Kain already. Revan=Kain Exile=Raziel Revan/Kain is an anti-hero who's actually trying to save the galaxy/nosgoth not destroy it as everyone thinks - he's not really a bad guy! (cries... I liked bad evil Revan/Kain) Exile/Raziel is the person always one step behind Revan/Kain, he sucks out the power of the bosses he defeats and even though he's always in Revan/Kain's shadow since he used to serve him he still ends up more powerful (kinda) in the end. What next? We find out that in KotOR III the Exile is transported back in time, goes crazy and becomes Darth Nilihus and eventually will face death at his own hands? Bahhhhhhhhhh!!! Personally, I'd like to see KotOR III be a continuation of the Exile's story. Don't get me wrong, I *AM* very much a Revan fanboy (why there is a stigma attached I'll never know...) but I think that the next game should be seeing what happens to the Exile. Since... you know, KotOR II left us hanging. Playing as a new character does have appeal- but I fail to see where all these amazingly strong jedi come from and why they weren't there for the original games. I mean, I found the Exile knowing next to knowing about the 'Jedi Civil War' (bah, changed it's name, BAH!) pretty lame... having some new character show up who's like "yeah I'm a Jedi and well powerful... but urm, I just sat out the last two games because ... urm... I was imprisoned! Yeah, by the Sith during KotOR II - they took me prisoner because I can (insert unique power here)!" would be incredibly lame. Continue the story of the Exile. I really don't care about levels- they're just a gameplay mechanic anyway... I mean, as if my level 8 Soldier/12 guardian was stronger than Revan ever was during his reign as the dark lord... pfft, Malak you idiot. (sorry, old annoyance)

Thank god someone realised that... As for: Dude, you're wrong Why: 1. Karath joined the Sith pretty much as soon as Darth Revan returned to the galaxy. 2. Carth, "I've faught Saul for years now and..." - Malak had only been Dark Lord for one year at this time 3. Carth, "Five years ago, Saul Karath bombed my homeworld..." just before you go onto the leviathan 4. Carth isn't so stupid to hate Revan for something that he OBVIOUSLY had no hand in. Revan was overall commander, but it was Malak's portion of the fleet that carried out the attack. 5. There is nothing that said that Karath had to be the commander of the entire Sith fleet from the moment he joined - he could have had a predecessor and still joined the Sith from the moment they returned to the Republic. Do I think Revan woudl have approved of Malak's destruction of Telos? No, not really. In fact it's one of the theories behind his jaw removal I had. "You little (well large) t*sser!" "Sorry guvnor" "don't smile at me like that." "The dark side made me do it." "I mean it" *lightsaber swipe* "*mumble mumble gurgle*" "Better."

Oh yeah, I understand you - completely. Don't worry about that, it's just that I find KotOR to be a homage to the entire trilogy, as opposed to being "the ANH" of the KotOR series. TSL was clearly made with the intention of being the "TESB" in the KotOR series, the reason that it doesn't work so well is because KotOR had already done the Empire Strikes Back during it's story... Anyway, I'd much rather if we saw KotOR I as TPM of the KotOR series if we *have* to see it as a specific star wars movie... becasuse then we'll be getting six KotOR games... *bwahahahahahahahha* Unless of course if we get the prequel KotOR trilogy... heh.

I figured around 30/31 in KotOR1, maybe slightly older - but 'reprogrammed' with a younger age. Hence Bastila asking "I see, your current age is?"

I wont bother with Kotor III unless they finish kotor II <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sick of people using "It's a Star Wars trilogy" as an excuse. KotOR1 was a trilogy unto itself - with distinct ANH, ESTB and RotJ inspired parts. You have the introduction of the characters, escaping a ship that's being attacked via escape pod and trying to save a "princess" (with headbuns) just like ANH at the start. Then you have the journey of an incredibly Force senstitive individual on his path to save the galaxy when BAM, revelation, everything is different. "Bastila never told you what happened to Darth Revan..." "She told me enough... she told me you killed him!" "No... YOU are Darth Revan!" "That's not true... that's impossible!" "Yeah, get over it." Just like TESB - also, just like ESB, one of the main characters is kidnapped. Then finally you have the massive climatic showdown on a huge powerstation with "Star" in it's name, fighting against the big bad whilst Republic/Rebel forces start blasting it to hell. Just like RotJ. So please... spare me the "KotOR = ANH" "KotOR = TESB" nonsense. KotOR = Entire Star Wars trilogy and parts of prequels. KotOR2 = A Star Wars inspired story. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved KotOR2 (well... the influence system *really* did mess up the storyline as was said- what exactly were the 'benefits' to having low influence with anyone?) until the rushed ending. Hell, I didn't mind the *end* itself, just the last few hours in the run up to the end. So, whilst the game was a dream, the ending was hugely disappointing.

Revan's as two dimensional as whoever's playing decides to make him. <_< He was an incredibly developed character and personality for me... of course, it wasn't provided by the game and it all came from my own head- but that was the point surely? This wasn't a Final "no room for own interpretation" Fantasy style game after all. See above. A lot, in terms of galactic events. What I decided it was. What I decided he cared about. What I decided were his fears and aspirations. Sorry to keep going over the same point- but this really is why Revan is loved so much. EXACTLY, which is what makes him a real RP character. This isn't supposed to be exactly the same as a movie or a book where you get force fed the protagonist. KotOR1 did an excellent job in managing to simultaniously create a defined main character that was, when it came down to everything: nothing more than a name for whoever you wanted him to be. As far as I'm aware, KotOR2 does a similarly good job of creating an avatar for "you". The difference is he doesn't feel as *important* as Revan did. Whether this is a good or bad thing is obviously a matter of opinion. I agree- it does make Revan near impossible to be portrayed as an NPC. As a PC however it's very possible - though personally I think this would be a step in the wrong direction. Though Revan will probably remain my favourite KotOR series character, since he was my first one, I think his time as a PC is over and he should now exist only as a figure of legend in future games.

Umm... Darth Maul didn't have any dialogue... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually he does "At last we will make ourselves known, at last we will have our revenge." Or something to that effect, he says the line when he's talking to Palpatine atop the taris on Coruscant. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *Ulicus takes the role of annoying one* More specifically: "Tatooine is sparsely populated, if the trace was correct I will find them quickly master." "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at least we will have revenge." and later on in the film, "Yes, my master." He probably makes a few grunts in the Duel of the Fates but I can't quote them from memory. Then again, he got a whole poem (kinda) in his teaser trailer... why we didn't get to see a Darth Maul recital in the film I don't know "

Couldnt agree more. It kinda takes away from the story. At least ESB ended with the the characters talking to each other and resolving some of issues. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What the hell are you talking about? Did you even see ESB no one was like *Well I'm going to go find out if Vader is Lukes father." No one knew if Han would live or not, infact Lucas didn't know for awhile. You people who complain about the ending being too opened are full of crap. If they gave you closure in the second act why have a third? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am sick of people using ESB as a comparison. This story is *not* a continuation of KotOR, despite what people say- it is a new story that occurs after. The KotOR series is *NOT* (or rather, SHOULD NOT be) like this: KotOR1: A New Hope KotOR2: Empire Strikes Back KotOR3: Return of the Jedi KotOR was NOT like "A New Hope", it was a homage to the ENTIRE trilogy. The ending was like A New Hope in that they got medals, it was also like Return of the Jedi in that they had actually saved the galaxy (unless they damned it). Think about it- you have the first act which is all about the introduction of the characters and resucing the "princess" Bastila on Taris. THAT IS A NEW HOPE. Then you have the protagonist's development as a Jedi, with a huge revelation relating to the big bad and one of the characters being captured. THAT IS EMPIRE. Then you have the final act, whereby the protagonist reaches the end of his journey (for good or ill)- is tempted by the dark side, conquers it (or is seduced) and goes on to beat the big bad in an epic duel. THAT IS RETURN OF THE JEDI. Arrghhhh. It just really annoys me that people dismiss KotOR as "A New Hope" when it's the entire friggin trilogy. Nothing can excuse the fact that KotOR2 has no real conclusion, it should work as a game into itself. As it happens, I quite like what I've read of the story (now anyway) but the ending, if it is in any way as it has been described on spoiler forums is very poor and seems to indicate that the developers have bought into the idiotic idea that KotOR1 was just representative of A New Hope, thus giving them an excuse to create a half hearted ending. It would be like saying "Ok, that's the end of KotOR1" after the first duel with Malak. Ridiculous- they're games, not movies- you invest time in them and expect some form of rewarding conclusion as opposed to being forced to wait for three years (or a year) for the answers. In movies it's ok, its part of the medium and you've only put in about 2/3 hours of your time. I know this appears to be a rant at Obsidian and I suppose it is kind of, I still have a great deal of respect for them and like I said, from what I've read of the actual "journey" of the story- the game seems to be pretty awesome I'm just really disappointed with what I've heard about the ending. *Whoa, lots of writing* Anyway, that is all- sorry to have bored you.

I think training people as Jedi is pretty stupid, thus I won't train them. The game takes place over a timespan of a few months, maybe less. Luke became a Jedi in four years, but he had the privelage of having the Force as a grandparent. How can it possibly be explained that these people are able to become Jedi and weild lightsabers to proper Jedi standard so fast? I mean, in KotOR it was ok, because you were "remembering", seems pretty ridiculous in TSL. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I suppose. But look how long it took for Luke to find someone to instruct him in the ways of the Force. And how long was Luke on Dagobah before he left to face Vader? I'm pretty sure it wasn't four years. Besides Luke didn't have the hands-on training that I put my scrubs though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He was practising the skills he learnt from Obi-Wan throughout his "three year wilderness", which explains his development. Luke got his top up course from Yoda then rushed off to face Vader because he was an impatient twit. However, he's allowed to advance so fast because he's the son of the Chosen One and the "New Hope" - and even with all that, he was by no means a particularly skillful Jedi, just a powerful one who could only take down his dad in VI because Vader had: A) "Lost a lot of the power of the Force" (as quoted by GL) B) Become half-machine and wasn't quite as nible with a lightsaber. Anakin Skywalker is still a padawan after 10 years of training, granted a great deal o this will be because he is being held back but at the same time it does make it seem even *more* ridiculous that we have non-Jedi becoming very proficient Jedi in the space of a couple of days.

I think training people as Jedi is pretty stupid, thus I won't train them. The game takes place over a timespan of a few months, maybe less. Luke became a Jedi in four years, but he had the privelage of having the Force as a grandparent. How can it possibly be explained that these people are able to become Jedi and weild lightsabers to proper Jedi standard so fast? I mean, in KotOR it was ok, because you were "remembering", seems pretty ridiculous in TSL.

Missed my point (sorry- not trying to be confrontational, just saying) I know that everything he has done makes Revan more powerful than the Exile *at the moment* but, will the Exile surpass him? Or will Revan always remain more powerful? Personally I hope they make Revan a kind of "legendary journeyman" figure throughout the KotOR series, one that the player characters are always two steps behind (in terms of knowledge AND power). Kind of like Sephiroth in FFVII (except good if he's good obviously). So, if he's bad- he becomes this kind of evil bogeyman that the galaxy fears, never knowing where he's going to strike. If he's good, it's like whenever he appears it's like a miracle, he saves the day and disappears once again. Basically, Revan would become this almost mythological character in the Universe... like, King Arthur is thought of today in Britain. So millenia hence, people will think that Revan was imaginary, or many men mixed together over the years- or that he was just an icon as opposed to a real being. Then again, I'm the person who thinks that Yoda should say about Anakin in Episode III: "Never one so strong has there been, not since Revan's time" That would be *sweet* and would personally make me denote my life's savings to George Lucas. Well, maybe I wouldn't go that far. *sigh*

No, I'm sorry. I hate being rude - I was just irritated in general at the time, not specifically at you or stuff on this board.

<_< Last time: don't read if you don't want to be spoiled Sorry if that appeared to be rude, but arrggh. It's already been said and alluded to several times in this thread.

<_< Well, yeah, but I was talking in terms of story- it's pretty easy to figure out that since it's a game you can make the character to be anything you want. Here is a comparison: Throughout KotOR 1 they go on how strong Revan is in the Force, yet if you play a guardian with 8 Wis and 8 Cha your Force point total is crap. Therefore- gameplay wise, your Revan isn't that strong in the Force Storywise- He is immensely strong in the Force You see where I'm going with this? So I want to know GAMEPLAY ASIDE who people think will be the most powerful in the end. After all, Palpatine didn't say to Anakin, "I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi because you don't have a level cap" did he?

To twist Obi-Wan's quote... Who is the more powerful? Revan or the fool who follows him? Which is actually my question: which is more powerful? Or rather, who do you think will be the most powerful once they've "peaked" so to speak?