Ulicus

Actually... *heh* I have The Sith War on my lap and I'm on the Ulic vs Mandalore duel and it says that Mandalore is riding a "basilisk war droid; open combat model". Which implies that there are "non-open combat models". I still think KotOR 2 cheated us out of a proper Basilisk... but Kex did say it was modified right? Maybe that's why it was so crappy.

I know... Fact is, in KotOR 1 it was called

Just reading through the chronicles again and this caught my eye: "Sadow taught Nadd dark twistings of the Force, offering him Sith weapons and abilities no other Jedi Knight could withstand. Freedon Nadd leaves Yavin 4 soon afterwards, intent on becoming the king of ONDERON, a primitive world outside of the Old Republic's boundaries. The fate of Sadow remained a mystery." It's always been assumed by most that Nadd simply killed Sadow... but this got me thinking. As we all know there was no corpse in Naga Sadow's tomb (since he went to Yavin before his tomb was ever needed) and he was the Dark Lord of the Sith of the *true* Sith Empire during the great Hyperspace War (well, until that little spat with Kressh). So, I'm thinking that whilst Nadd left for Onderon, Sadow returned to the true Sith Empire and re-established his dominion as Dark Lord, and having learnt from his mistakes, decided to keep it well and truly hidden from the Republic. So, I'm thinking that in KotOR III we're going to learn a lot about the 'mysteries' surrounding Naga Sadow's disappearance, since it was a topic left open by the rest of the EU - hell, he might even be the big bad... Sith Alchemy always had that tendency to extend your lifespan. Anyway- give a holla as to what you think: Am I on the right track in the direction it's gonna go? *I mean, the chronicles themselves are pretty dubious and make plenty of mistakes... "Jedi Master Revan", hah - so using them probably isn't the basis of the most sound of arguments*

Yeah, and could you tell one Star Destroyer from another? Or one X-Wing from another even? I mean, I doubt it was the ONLY ship of its kind at Malachor V. Maybe it was. *shrug* Fact is the big rushing climax was poorly stuck on the end of an otherwise awesome game.

But they could have set KotOR earlier so she wouldn't have been... I guess they thought 40 years was a more reasonable gap between two Sith Wars.

Just curious as to why Obsidian felt the need to change the name of the Sith War in KotOR to the "Jedi Civil War" - KotOR frequently had it billed as a war between the Republic and the growing (neo) Sith Empire. One: whilst it might be true that a lot of people don't know the difference between Jedi and Sith, the Republic military and the Jedi themselves *certainly* didn't see it as a "Jedi Civil War" during KotOR 1- it was always "the war against the Sith". So why military figures and Jedi would refer to it as the "Jedi Civil War" in KotOR 2 is beyond me. The entire conflict was the Sith fleet fighting the Republic fleet. Two: Yes, though the Republic might not have been the true target as Kreia says, whilst it might have always been the Jedi that the Sith were aiming for: the Republic and the rest of the galaxy wouldn't look at it that way, and wouldn't refer to it as "the Jedi Civil War". Three: Revan was *no longer a Jedi* (in their eyes or the eyes of the Republic at least), so how could it be a "Jedi Civil War"? I mean, the Great Schism really *was* a Jedi Civil War. The Jedi philosophies had not been truly set in stone, some Jedi expermented with the dark-side, Xendor and all his Jedi followers went into battle against the Jedi etc - they got beaten, fled to the Sith worlds, took them over and established a dark side Empire. After which they were no longer Jedi, they were Sith Lords. The war in KotoR was nothign like a war between Jedi with the Republic caught in the middle- it was pretty clearly a war of the Sith against the Republic, with the Jedi acting as elite troops/whatever in the Republic's service. I know that "the Sith War" was already taken, but KotOR did acknowledge this by referring to the war against Kun as the "last Sith War" or "the Great Sith War"- so what possible reason did Obsidian have for messing with the continuity? I mean, it's only minor but it really annoyed me at the start of the game. Especially since it's such a *small* thing to have changed, yet so damn irritating. It doesn't matter that much... I just... don't... understand...

Just curious as to why Obsidian felt the need to change the name of the Sith War in KotOR to the "Jedi Civil War" - KotOR frequently had it billed as a war between the Republic and the growing (neo) Sith Empire. One: whilst it might be true that a lot of people don't know the difference between Jedi and Sith, the Republic military and the Jedi themselves *certainly* didn't see it as a "Jedi Civil War" during KotOR 1- it was always "the war against the Sith". So why military figures and Jedi would refer to it as the "Jedi Civil War" in KotOR 2 is beyond me. The entire conflict was the Sith fleet fighting the Republic fleet. Two: Yes, though the Republic might not have been the true target as Kreia says, whilst it might have always been the Jedi that the Sith were aiming for: the Republic and the rest of the galaxy wouldn't look at it that way, and wouldn't refer to it as "the Jedi Civil War". Three: Revan was *no longer a Jedi* (in their eyes or the eyes of the Republic at least), so how could it be a "Jedi Civil War"? I mean, the Great Schism really *was* a Jedi Civil War. The Jedi philosophies had not been truly set in stone, some Jedi expermented with the dark-side, Xendor and all his Jedi followers went into battle against the Jedi etc - they got beaten, fled to the Sith worlds, took them over and established a dark side Empire. After which they were no longer Jedi, they were Sith Lords. The war in KotoR was nothign like a war between Jedi with the Republic caught in the middle- it was pretty clearly a war of the Sith against the Republic, with the Jedi acting as elite troops/whatever in the Republic's service. I know that "the Sith War" was already taken, but KotOR did acknowledge this by referring to the war against Kun as the "last Sith War" or "the Great Sith War"- so what possible reason did Obsidian have for messing with the continuity? I mean, it's only minor but it really annoyed me at the start of the game. Especially since it's such a *small* thing to have changed, yet so damn irritating. It doesn't matter that much... I just... don't... understand...

I was thinking about that the other day, actually. I never saw those again either, though I stumbled across them when looking at my feats quite a while later. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I did a few times: - On Dxun when going to fight that big beast that you take the ear off - On Onderon before you were confronted by the twi'lek bounty hunter and his cronies - On Onderon with that beast in the cage that goes crazy

I can *cope* with the ending as it stands (providing they just say "your party members are *so n so*, in the meantime go to he academy and fight Traya)- but I do think they need some more "explaining what the hell is going on" in the climax as opposed to the "uh, why am I here? what am I doing? how does my character know he's called Darth Nilihus, how does he know the ship is called the Ravager? huh?" moments.

T3 was FANTASTIC. He went from being the thing I never spoke to in KotOR 1 that I considered to be a cheap R2 rip off to being one hell of an awesome droid that I cared about and felt sorry for. I think Obsidian should be most proud of the fact that they made T3 an actual character that you could care about as opposed to the portable computer slicer that he was before.... plus adding some ripped R2 sounds just gave him that little more personality. :D I loved T3 in this game, even my Sith Lord loved him.

I agree, it made the whole thing more cinematic- and more challenging too. Apart from when I figured out that if I just moved Atton behind the bar then the twi'leks wouldn't follow him... then it was just a case of blasting away heh heh heh. That was pretty easy- but fun.

I liked the influence system, yeah- the only problem was that if you were playing a character who just *wouldn't* get much influence with someone else, take darksiders and Bao-Dur for example - when a lot of their backstory is pretty central to the plot, especially at the "ending" We should have been spoonfed the stuff that was vital to the plot and been able to get influence for the fluff and Jedi training. So whoever said a mixture of the two was spot on.

Revan in KotOR 2 is whatever sex you want him/her to be. It seems loads of people miss the conversation options with Atton... somehow

Urm, why does *everyone* make this mistake? They're not. The ritual is about controlling the beasts of Dxun. Miss the conversation with the Sith soldiers in the tomb? And the whole bit when you're attacking the palace (or wahtever) and the Sith suddenly lose control of the beasts? That's when your other party members have disrupted the ritual. Silly. And mandalorians don't look like humans *shrug* but I prefer them looking human, it means that Jango and Boba can be *real* Mandalorians. I was disappointed with the Basilisk looking like a cheap Tardis/bus though, yeah. Yeah I know... weird. Unless you take the logical step that maybe the Sith build the tombs for their Lords in advance (I mean, it happened a lot in ancient civilisations) so that when they died they could just take them there without having to like, build a whole new tomb. I mean, Naga Sadow's tomb is the only one without a corpse in KotOR 1... right? Meh, maybe they were around for a bit , got bored, left for 4,000 years and were forgotten. Are you just saying that the whole place was a mistake? Hmm, well I think that it's just represented that way in the game, obviously it's a lot bigger/grander than that.

Yes, definately... (I mean, it's the "real endings" isn't it? More than one last I heard.) Will it be? Do I expect it to be? Nope. I mean, there are about a hundred things that need fixing with this game - the influence system being so central to learning the plot really messes things up for people who want to roleplay a certain type of character. As it is, KotOR 2 is a really enjoyable game... just way to rough around the edges - but hey, I'll still buy KotOR 3, I won't boycott Lucasarts... so I doubt they'll care about my opinion (not that they would anyway, heh) Edit: As for the point above, I think it's a pretty safe assumption is was about Christmas. I mean, fair enough- change the ending so that more characters survive, make it happier whatever, as long as there IS an ACTUAL ending. - But to just cut off the end and add a few more dialogs to Kreia is pretty dumb and reeks of rushing. The fact that there is no real ending, that there are a million loose ends and that NPCs don't mean s**t at the end is just plain ridiculous. I wouldn't mind so much if they made a 'happier' ending. I'd just like a proper climax to an otherwise fantastic game.

I still want Coruscant. :] But I really agree. What's the meaning of a galaxy out there, if we have to visit the same planets every time? For instance, what about the Adegan system, where lightsaber crystals come from (heard a lot about, but never actually set foot on it in any game)? Or the zillions other planets with different and unseen climates/features/races out there? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, Coruscant is the most understandable (like has been said, the High jedi Council is there and stuff)

Wouldn't have minded if it was a cliffhanger ending as opposed to an abrupt cut off. They're obviously going to go into the Sith'Ari stuff... and I'm of a mind to think it's the Exile. I mean "The Force will free me" being the last line of the Sith code kind of gives this away. What if the (kotOR) Sith were misinterepting it to mean the Force would let them do what they wanted? What it could really mean The Exile has been freed from the Force's will and now has "perfect destiny, perfect strength, perfect power" as Yuthura said. I mean, the Sith'Ari is clearly a "true sith" prophesy, and is about the True Sith being led by the Sith'Ari. Also "He will destroy us, but also make us stronger than ever"... Revan and/or the Exile will destroy/conquer and rule this threat in KotOR3. or maybe it's referring to the Exile's "siphon" ability. Though others gain strength from him, he also 'destroys "them" ' and makes them into puppets for his will... kinda... I don't know, I'm just rambling. I think it'll be something to do with the Sith Order that'll eventually become the rulers of the galaxy (led by either the Exile or Revan, or conquered by them or whatever), that the Jedi eventually overthrow in 1000bby... I mean, we all know GL has overritten the established Darth Bane/Eu mythology right? (He said that the sith want revenge because the Jedi overthrew them as rulers of the galaxy 1,000 years ago). Which is no-doubt why we have the "Darth" title cropping up 3,000 years early.

Oh, i thought it meant: "We'll let you assume there is a Dark Throne but we sure as hell aren't going to show you anything"

Neither, though Coruscant would be more understanable. I've had enough of visiting planets that have already been written about a million times and been in a hundred computer games and in the movies. This is a *galaxy* for crying out loud - i mean, when it's confined pretty much to planets from the films and fan-favourites it makes it seem very, very small. The fact that tattoine is visited in almost every game, and that if you have a snowy environment you go to hoth is plain ridiculous. I'd prefer more planets like Maanan (well not LIKE manaan...) that were invented for the game.

Ah, no - originally she was slated to be the Bastila character in KotOR 1 (it explains the battle meditation) I'm not sure why they changed that, but I'm guessing so they could be more flexible with the character.

Comparably, when he was inside the bridge of his ship. When you can throw around thermal detonators around in the Leviathan, the turbolaser blast couldn't do so much damage can it? Who said anything about comparing? I was simply pointing out that there is a subtle, yet oh so considerable difference between a turbo-laser and a laser. Not to mention that the shots probably blew up all the computers and machinary and crap around Revan and the strike team. When I last saw ROTJ it was Vader who killed the Emperor. But was it a lightsaber/Force battle between a Sith apprentice challenging his master? *ponders* No. It was Anakin Skywalker grabbing Palpatine from behind and throwing him down a shaft whilst his master was considerably distracted torturing Luke. So technically he did need Luke, but that's just me being pedantic. The quote was in reference to Vader needing Luke's strength to stand a chance in usurping the Emperor. Sure, they're the coolest idea ever. I love the way Lucas transformed the mystical energy field present in all living things to how many bacteria there are in your blood. I love the fact that you are predetermined how strong you are. To quote a very profilic (cough Volourn cough) poster on these forums: "R00fles!" Ok, you seem I'm pretty stupid with the tone you're adopting so I'll switch out of jolly "forum/net" mode for a moment to go into the slightly (yet only slightly " ) more intelligent, "geek theory" mode. Lucas did *not* transform the mystical energy field present in all living things to how many bacteria there are in your blood - they are the conduits through which the living things HEAR the mysterical energy field present in all living things. And the way I interpret it, you aren't predetermined how strong you are. Qui-Gon says: "Midi-chlorians are a microscopic lifeform that are in all living things, they constantly whisper to us, telling us the will of the Force" This is my take on midichlorians and it fits in fine with the above (and I sincerely doubt it will be contradicted in Episode III): Midichlorians are 'attracted' to the Force, they congregate in areas where the Force is in high quantities. They are therefore found in high quantities in the bloodstreams of those who are Force sensitive. Think of them as moths to a flame, the brighter the flame - the more of them there are. The more you train in the Force, the stronger you become with the Force - since you are increasing the intensity of that "flame", so more midichlorians congregate within your bloodstream, attracted to your Force strength and also making you even *more* sensitive to it. Thus the whole "predetermined" thing doesn't count for much. Midichlorians are representative of natural talent - but everyone knows that practice makes perfect. The reason not everyone can become Jedi is that not everyone is born with a high enough Force strength (and therefore midichlorian count) to hear the Force in the first place, so naturally they can't 'improve' this and make themselves stronger in the Force. If there is no "fire" to start with, you're not going to get any "moths" and not going to be able to develop enough to attract any. If there were no midichlorians, it would make no sense that not everyone could become Jedi - that was the entire point for their introduction And if you say "yeah well some people are just stronger in the Force than others" - then you've just defeated the "I hate how you have a predetermined strength" part of your argument. In Anakin's case, I compare him to Mozart. Mozart was a musical genius (as I'm sure everyone knows) and at an incredibly young age was better than people who had been doing it for years. Does this mean that with practice and dilligence someone couldn't become better than him? No. It just means that he was given a CONSIDERABLE head-start and wasn't likely to be overtaken. Anakin was born with a Force strength that even the greatest masters hadn't achieved with all their experience, but that didn't mean someone couldn't surpass him (in theory) it just meant he had a very big advantage and wasn't likely to ever be overtaken. When he becomes Vader, it is the equivelent of taking a master pianist and cutting off all the fingers of one of his hands. Could he ever become as great as he was? No, never - his god given talent and practice could allow him to become pretty good again, very good even - but all his natural talent and all his hard work couldn't make up for the fact that he had been mutilated and he could never be as good as he was. Yup. Totally agree with you. That's why when Revan goes DS i love his replies, like: "Either I take your credits and then you die, or I kill you first then take the credits" Add Jedi Thug to that list. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah well, the "Thug Side" was just there for the GTA demographic... I wouldn't blame Revan too much for that. Besides, I could make Yoda do all of that if I had control of him in KotOR. Also I tend to play 'grey side'... so no overt people bashing for my Revan More's the pity.

That's not one... Vader says "thy".... Though I suppose they couldn't have exact quotes. Han Solo: "Maybe you'd like it back in your cell" (option for PC character to say to Atton) Obi-Wan: "I(We) seem to have found it" (Kreia on Jedi-Council holofootage from T3) Anakin/3-PO/Han/Luke/Leia/Everyone actually: "I have a bad feeling about this" (again, a lot of people, Atton the most) R2:D2: "Dweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-oooooo" (T3-M4 has deveoped an R2-D2 accent for K2) Palpatine: "Strange that I did not..." (Kreia on you hearing Bao-Dur's thoughts when she didn't)

"Whine as he might, he survived a fall into lava. Revan almost died by a laser shot." Urm... several TURBOLASER shots... from a Indictor class ship... yeah, thats your average blaster... <_< The question is: Revan vs Vader. The answer is Revan would Win. Do I think this makes Vader any less badass? No, considering he is half-machine the fact he has anywhere near as much power as he does is incredible. If the question was Revan vs Anakin The answer would be "long drawn out duel but Anakin would win in the end, unless he messes up like he does in the Obi-Wan duel." Vader lost a lot of power in the Force when he became half-machine. Direct Lucas quote: "I mean Anakin could have done it by himself but he's lost a lot of power in the Force and now he needs Luke to overthrow the Emperor" Whether or not you think midichlorians are good or bad (and honestly I think you're just being idiotic if you don't think midichlorians can exist alongside a 'spiritual' Force, since they clearly can and do - they're only friggin conduits, get over it) the fact is that the Force is generated by living things, and machinary no matter which way you look at it, is not living. Anakin had the potential to become the most baddest, Neo/Superman-like Jedi in the galaxy. It was unrealised, but his destiny was to restore balance and he did. Speaking of, does anyone else think that the Force is going to become "unbalanced" due to events in KotOR III? Probably involving Revan and the Exile... and their respective natures and how they conflict. I totally agree with the person who said we should have gotten to see the Anakin "Hero without Fear" it seems we get the crap parts. Kid Whiny Teenager then finally a "good"(read: evil) one at the end. Tho I do enjoy the prequels, i can't help myself- they have lightsabers :D

Ok, now that was just plain well, not rude... but perhaps a little condescending. Mainly because I don't think I'm being "annoying", nor do I think anyone in the thread is being annoying. Notice the way I phrased this topic: "Whoa! GL considers KotOR 1 canon?" It was a question, a very surprised question since I didn't believe it. It would be cool, but I don't believe it. I didn't say "WHOA! GL CONSIDERS KOTOR 1 CANON! ROXOR!" I am more curious as to where the reviewer got that opinion from. That's all. :ph34r: