Gromnir

"The only definition I need is mine and mine alone because the only person I have to live with is me." okie dokie... but you is complained 'bout how bioware uses the word and not how you uses. you can looks at a cow and say "dog" all you wish, but when you criticize others for failing to do the same, well then you is just being psychotic, no? such oddness can leads to all kinds o' confusion as you insist that dogs is a wonderful source of milk and that as a good midwestern boy there ain't nothing you likes better than a grade A ribeye steak cut from a corn fed iowan dog. ... if you is complaining that bio ain't following your telepathic orders to them that they ditch the oed and websters and instead use vis definitions, then we thinks you is being just a tiny bit unreasonable, no? HA! Good Fun!

am gonna note that based on chat and some other comments we seen recently, older dev comments 'bout how nwn2 were almost a completely different engine and game from the ground up is seeming likes a great deal of bunk. am recalling, in particular, that josh were quite critical of nwn cleric domain implementation... were something that came up during iwd2 development. nevertheless, it sounds like nwn2 cleric domains is gonna be less than accurate... in spite of josh desire to get the core stuff right. ... oh well. HA! Good Fun!

you are, of course, incorrect. "Did you see "Gleaming the Cube"? Dude, that was like so freaking Epic!" is not necessarily how advertisers and normal persons use "epic" in conversations. anybody wanna get a dictionary for vis? shows him a def. epicness of a work can simply refers to scope and size o' story. if you is saving the world or galaxy, then chances are you gots yourself more than 'nuff just 'cause to use overused epic label. advertisers and developers use Epic precisely 'cause wacky folks likes vis attributes a qualitative aspect to a word that don't really got one. developers and publishers is rarely fibbing or even stretching truths when they calls their storytelling "epic." how many fantasy or sci-fi game stories ain't epic in scope? is a few, but they is the exceptions. and as for predictability = lameness... that might be overstating. sure, we would much prefer if we didn't know what were coming, but predictability don't have to = lame if the characters and encounters in a game is well developed. ever read TDKR? is the closest thing to superhero comic art we ever has read, but if you gots even the most tiny shreds of a lit background you were gonna be able to see what were coming. in fact, the one lame aspect of TDKR were the end. for a comic fan, the end were predictable. batman survives. however, given the literary pparallels TDKR were drawing so heavily 'pon, we didn't expect for batman to survive... and that actually were the one real blemish on an otherwhise fantastic bits o' comic art. and 'cause it just wouldn't be the obsidian boards w/o devolution into a predictably lame tolkien battle, we feels compelled to note that lotr were pretty darn predictable, and some people here hold it up as the pinnacle o' fantasy lit. regardless, epic needs not mean what vis seems to insist on it meaning. u lose. r00fles. whatever. HA! Good Fun!

http://www.dragonlance.com/products/ looks like wotc still is making dl crap... though it not get much play at the wotc d&d site. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060406a&o= oh well. HA! Good Fun!

in the mid 80s dl were popular... but am not thinking that it has the same selling power as does the frs. every month wotc releases a new fr product, in spite of fact that greyhawk is the official setting. *snort* not too many dl products coming out of wotc these days. maybe dl is more popular than wotc seems to think, but we doubt it. besides which, dl is kinda lame. HA! Good Fun!

question: why do they even bother to list chrisA as a participant at these things? HA! Good Fun!

didn't know we were in competition.. Gromnir were genuinely looking for info as we ain't spent much time at the bio boards in a while and last we heard were that there were some serious backwards compatability issues with PrCs... would have to be redone from scratch almost. would still like to see some confirmation from a current member of the development team, but at least the obsidians ain't starting from square 1 with PrCs... though that doesn't seem to mesh with some of josh's recent comments. HA! Good Fun!

am not sure what you are talking 'bout. Gromnir sure never mentioned fan made PrCs. also, am not sure where you is getting your info from that the old PrCs from nwn1 will be included and playable in nwn2. please supply a link. HA! Good Fun!

how many PrCs gots the nwn games? how many will the first nwn2 game has? you cannot simply compare nwn2 to nwn... 'cause the property advanced, at least in the eyes of fans. it may be unfair to obsidian, but we ain't trying to be fair... am talking 'bout fan expectations. we weren't kidding 'bout the PrC threads on the nwn boards neither... is as bad as the lightsabre color threads onthe kotor boards. HA! Good Fun!

"Creating the sort of overpowered characters Gromnir suggested isn't a step forward." not for you or Gromnir and not for josh... but don't kid yourself 'bout what many folks do want. simply looks at the pnp material that wotc has sold since 3e were first released. the munchkin urge is strong, and wotc has fed it... and now the stuff is official... whatever that means. regardless, people got PrCs in their previous nwn products, and they got 30 levels and they gots ph47 1007 and all kinds o' other stuff. there is gonna be people who is gonna be really disappointed if nwn2 regresss so that their characters is seemingly gimped compared to their nwn characters. HA! Good Fun!

chrisA were a no-show at the last nwn2 dev chat. weasel were helpful... but he is no longer with obsidian. btw, for folks not aware, the moderated chats is useless... but you can get info by hanging 'round After the chat and speaking with the developers who decide to slum it with the masses. is pretty chaotic, but the questions and answers post-chat is always more enlightening than the moderated q&a sessions. HA! Good Fun!

you would know better than Gromnir. we bought Defenders of the Faith... then vowed never to buy another d&d product again. we downloaded the d&d 3.5 core rules, but that doesn't cover all the secondary and tertiary source materials. after what appeared to be a good start with 3e, we is back to where we were with original d&d, and ad&d... we is forced to play mostly with house rules variations 'cause of the suckage that is predictable (& necessary) corporate greed. not gonna make money of off a single coherent rule set... gotta keep offering new info and new materials, whether it makes game better or not. HA! Good Fun!

"Grom, I don't think that is reasonable or practical to pander to the

"Don't forget that NwN 2 is equal parts a empowerment for modders, too." no it isn't... and it would help if the developers figured that out sooner rather than later. according to some comments made by biowarians, less than 10% of nwn purchasers ever played a mod... and far fewer ever made a mod. is not equal... not by a long shot. "I think it is beyond obvious that the beginning is where you start" what is even more obvious is that people always want more. tell us that it makes more sense to start with the basics completely ignores a large % of those 2 million nwn fans who unreasonably or not, wants... more. we gots perspective... and so too should josh. we recall when iwd2 were being developed and josh offered up to the board for feedback some kit ideas. they were very solid and balanced... and they were absolutely hated. HA! Good Fun!

actually, if we recall right, it is even less than that. ghostwise can communicate telepathically with another creature they gots a languge in common with at a very short range. simply call it a Spirit Voice instead of telepathy and the minor ability goes from psionic to mystic... explain as being some kinda link with nature or quasi-druidic ability. problem solved. and eldar telling us how much variation the core rules got is kinda meaningless as we already noted how much variation the core rules offer.. we specific noted that core rules gots more options than we saw in the original nwn and its expansions. forget the reality, am talking 'bout perception... and the weight o' player expectations. peoples played nwn and the expansions at levels 1-30+, and they had a bunch of PrC, and they saw lots of loot and critters. nwn2 is gonna have fewer PrCs... and that right there is a big difference. you don't think so? simply looks at the nwn boards both before and after release. demand for each person's personal favorite PrC is probaly one of the most common recurring threads you will have seen. am also not talking 'bout personal wants... 'cause Gromnir will be satisfied if gameplay is solid and if they gets domains better than the nwn weirdness. ufortunately we ain't the average crpg or d&d or FR fan. from what we can tell, the average nwn player wants to play as a drow death knight, dual wielding vorpal halberds... and he wants an opportunity kill elminster and make wild sweaty monkey love with lolth. now, Gromnir am recognizing that no developer is gonna make such a game, and perhaps we is being a smidge hyperbolic, but we thinks that if you don't understand your audience you is gonna be more than a little disappointed at their reaction. afterwards the obsidian developers can pull a ps:t fanboi kinda thing and says that they were casting pearls before swine, but such excuses has rarely been particularly moving. the fans of nwn is NOT the handful of modders you see on the nwn boards... and they is NOT the hardcore crpg fans you see 'round here or at codex or at bioware. nwn sold 2 million copies and the vast majority o' players never played a mod or played online with a pnp style party... evar. there is lots of folks out there who play these games simply to level up and gain loot... and many of the folks who buy nwn2 is gonna be doing so in the hopes that the characters they create in nwn2 will have more fantastic powers and more powerful loot than they did in nwn... and they will wanna play a drow who gets an opportunity to kill elminster and score with lolth. HA! Good Fun!

while the cause and effect is suspect, we gots no problem believing that the average gamer is a pot smoking slacker. ... yeah, we is talking 'bout all of you. HA! Good Fun!

btw, while we applaud josh's desire to get the core right, ('cause we is almost as snobbish as he is 'bout such things,) one wonders how the fans will react. part o' the formula for movie sequels is to always gets bigger explosions and crazier fight scenes, right? similar line o' thinking exists in games. sequels in crpgs offer More Powhaz and More 10075 than predecessors. compare bg2 available character development and loot options to bg1. fallout 2 v. fallout? kotor2 v. kotor? . josh and Gromnir can point out that a genuine core implementation of d&d gives far more character options than nwn and all the expansions combined, but the average fan probably ain't gonna see it that way. where is all the prestige classes and 1337 abilities? *shrug* we thinks josh is doing the right way... but sometimes the right way ain't what people want. HA! Good Fun! ps drow is munchkiny, specially with stoopid sunlight adaptation feats, but they keeps finding their way into pnp and crpg games 'cause that is what fans want... and the developers know that the fans want powerful drow. sometimes the smart developer simply gotta cave to will of the masses.

ghostwise halflings is excellent combatants. if nwn2 emphasis is on core, then this fact is even more true. using basic feats and classes and races of 3.5 D&D, a spring attack barbarian multi-class (add fighter or ranger or rogue depending on your particular personal powergaming notions,) character offers some very powerful builds. also, the ghostwise special ability ain't really anymore psionics than is so many other minor mind affecting/reading/enchantment kinda spells. sleep? charm? heck, it seems like virtually every fiend or celestial gots a kinda magical telepathy that allows it to communicate with any critter... and the ghostwise talent is far less broad than the telepathy thing. if the ghostwise ability is "too psionic" for some folks we gotta wonder how they reacts to other such perversions in da rules. nevertheless, the ghostwise "psionic" ability is not really useful in a sp crpg game. in pnp a clever player can use in many ways that just can't be translated to crpg. got no problem with dropping the ghostwise, 'cause it really wouldn't work in a crpg anyways...'least not w/o lots of resources being spent to actualize... and that ain't cost-effective. HA! Good Fun!

"Specifically, Moore told the Reporter he had toyed with the idea of a Galactica role-playing game "with Internet participation." " we expect that it would work more like star wars galaxies. didn't get to watch much of season 2, but ain't the humans on some sorta planet now, under cylon control? set the game on the planet and lets you choose human or cylon options. got potential for space fights and terrestrial fights... or you could choose more social interactions rather than simply fighting the rebels or being the rebels. regardless, "internet participation" in this day and age says mmorpg to Gromnir. HA! Good Fun!

but oblivion is a fantasy crpg? you got a nice screenie of shrubbery. would such a thing interest a gamer unless he were playing one of those deer hunter games? HA! Good Fun!

"By the way, which game does this screenshot remind you of?" one of them deer hunter games? HA! Good Fun!

this obtuseness is... perplexing. did bio benefit from some luck in making bg? sure, why not. but that ain't what you has been claiming. is a far different thing to attribute all bio success to ip and luck and hype than it is to note that bio benefited from some luck along the way. *shrug* is too much sp for even Gromnir to handle at this point. HA! Good Fun!

... am wondering if you is doing on purpose. "If I was a publisher between the time of BG and KOTOR who would I go to to make an RPG ? Bioware. Why would I go to Bioware ? Because they made BG/II." yes, 'cause bioware showed selves to be more than competent at developing games. duh. they were the developers of BG1 and BG2 and the expansions for both games... all of which sold well. they also developed NWN and the expansions for that game... games which outsold the bgs. so yeah, we can see why a normal and rational publisher would be interested in bio. duh. somehow to distill all bio success down to happenstance is beyond ridiculous. "Actually I pointed out the other games up until JE all were based on well established properties." we thinks we has been down that road before. d&d has NOT been a particularly successful license for anybody save bioware. star wars ain't been quite the Kiss o' Death that d&d has been recently, but is close. you hardly made a point with that nonsense... so we is surprised you would bring up again. some folks don't know when they has dug themselves such a deep hole that they ain't never gonna get out... but still they dig. "Never said that. I said they got lucky with IP because of the AD&D property." well no, that ain't all you said... but we will not insult everybody by quoting you ad nauseum. in any event, you gots less mileage with the D&D crutch than with most of your other comments, so we don't know why you retreat to such a lousy argument. HA! Good Fun!

btw, am still confused as to why you insist that all bio accolades is the result of some sorta aura that were created by Interplay in the form of bg. lord knows Gromnir doesn't even believe that bg were that great a game... but to give all credit for bio success to interplay and luck is just insane. ... is no way you can honestly believe what you is saying... you is just arguing to see your words on screen at this point. HA! Good Fun!

At the time of BG they had no RPG experience and had no intention of making an RPG. Remember they wanted to make an RTS. So I stand by my they got a lucky break. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what kinda reasoning is that? what was orson welles' first movie? citizen kane? did bio get help from fergie and company as they built bg? sure they did, but it were still the biowarians who developed... and regardless, you is still ignoring the fact that bio has made many other games following BG... games that has done very well for the most part. you has somehow convinced self that the only reason people buy bio games is 'cause they liked bg... and the only reason bg were any good is 'cause bio got lucky. nonsense. is like your conspiracy theories that require us to ignore any rational or plausible explanation in favor of the notion that bio has managed to hypnotize millions of people into buying their games, and that Interplay, a now defunct publisher of crpgs, were the real Mesmer, while bio were simply the front man. HA! btw, we has met maybe 2 authors of fiction in the past 20 years who wrotes books that turned out as they envisioned 'em when they were outlining. at some point the book developes its own voice, and the thing writes itself. the fact that bg didn't end up as the kanadians first envisioned it is more likely the rule rather than the exception. HA! Good Fun!