Gromnir

Nah, you really need a proofreader for your text. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> now that IS a surprise, eh? well, no doubt vol's imagined module is chock full o' role-play goodness. ... wowzers. HA! Good Fun!

lord only knows what vol would come up with if he didn't have ADD... prevents him from finishing his +4 year project o' making a nwn module... example dialogue: "LOLLERZ! Is that a dargon i see, or a fat lizard wif wigs?" "ROOFLES! You are SO funnie! HAHAHAHAHAHA! PLEAZ tell me that you R jocking." save us the opportunity to critique. HA! Good Fun!

vol never did nothing useful with old nwn toolset, so why he is interested in new nwn toolset? in any event, most o' stuff we were hoping for in a patch didn't make it. is a whole bunch o' spells that cannot be scribed to scrolls or used to makes wands. is missing feats. am trying to know why damage type for some weapons gots changed to Magic (as 'posed to divine or positive.) grobnar still sends some characters into rage spirals with his area effect spells, (and grobnar, with his inspirations, is the one spellcaster we would want computer ai to handle. ) bracer o' ac bonus still seems to stack with actual ac bonus from armour. etc. God is in the details. HA! Good Fun!

"The exception being Peryite's realm, the developer explained that to me as Peryite willing it to be the way it was to comply with the current concept of Oblivion." 'course the more likely explanation were simply that the developers took an understandable shortcut and then came up for a 'possedley plausible rationale. in a fantasy universe you can always come up for reasons to explain away developer shortcuts. bethesda went more in direction o' diablo for their crpgs, which is maybe the smart thing to be doing given how popular diablo were. oblivion has lots o' repetitive locations that provide many opportunities to kill & 1007. heck, as multiplayer ain't an issue in oblivion the developers not had to worry overmuch 'bout balance concerns (and it is obvious that they did not worry at all.) also, story and quests is kinda secondary concerns. make a diablo in a sandbox world w/o multiplayer... throw in some handful of very simple quests and 1-dimensional characters and you ends up with oblivion. *chuckle* we will note once again that in spite of fact that oblivion ain't our cup 'o tea, we is glad that it were made. all those candy-arse developers at obsidian and bioware and other places who liked to tell us that 80 hour games were no longer possible and that 40 hour games were soon gonna be out of reach were looking kinda silly after oblivion were released. oblivion helped slow the increasingly disturbing trend o' developers and publishers making ever smaller crpgs. HA! Good Fun!

there ain't much to do in neverwinter that ain't part o' the critical path... 'least not in chapter 1. btw, the worstest respawns in game for Gromnir were in the portion o' the game that for you is coming up next... but things gets better after that. if you is gonna use crafting, then crank difficulty up a notch to max... even so, crafting can break this game real easy if you let it.... specially as a warlock with high umd. wands for any occasion coupled with an enchanted mithral small shield, some uber armour, and one of those nymph cloaks +6 or +8 can really kills any challenge HA! Good Fun!

am not sure what game people is recalling when they talk of bg1 difficulty. yeah, the first 3-4 levels could be tough 'cause you not necessary get max hps and 'cause is SSSSSOOOOOOO easy to die at levels 1-3 in d&d. most d&d games following bg1 has done away with low levels... effectively start you out at 3 or 4. level 1-3 o' d&d is terrible... just as levels over 12 is equally poor balanced. in bg1 from the moment you can summons critters ('round level 5) the game is over. 1) summon a horde o' defenders (undead prefered as they stick 'round for a long time and 'cause they is immune to much stuff.) 2) cast web or entangle or grease or some combo when enemy is sighted. 3) if you gots zero patience or is having to fight sarevok or drizz't, cast haste... 4) destroy enemies with ranged weapons every single battle could be defeated using same basic strategy... as enemies gots tougher, your number o' summons increased and your ranged weapons skills more than compensated... and it not matter what difficulty level you got game set to, 'cause to kills a lowly skeleton still is requiring at least 1 attack... and you could always summon more skeletons or other critters. totsc, iwd and bg2 were slightly tougher 'cause developers took into account the over-power o' ranged weapons and summons... at least to some degree. as for nwn2 difficulty... have been down this road with spider a few times, so we won't revisit yet again. HA! Good Fun! ps... would really kills balance to lets you be able to use joinable npcs for social skills. in d&d pnp you control 1 character, not a party. sure, we knows some folks who willful tank their character's int... 'specially fighters, but rare is you seeing such a thing with a vet dm at the helm. skills shoulds be useful, and the party dynamic o' a game likes nwn2, where you controls a party and not just a character makes it so that with 4+ party members you coulds easily max out all useful skills even if every non-wizard npc had an int of 8 or less... which is bad balance. one of the things obsidian did right were to make sure that all social skill dc were based 'pon the pc's skills. 'corse crafting is still busted...

diablo were a pretty popular crpg that had limited character customization options and gameplay were offering little save for an opportunity to kill hordes o' baddies and gather 10075. story? pretty damn shallow. quests? *chuckle* character interactions. HA! list Gromnir's favorite crpgs and diablo ain't gonna make top 10... or 20. regardless, the blizzard guys managed to creates a gameplay formula that were mighty popular with most gamers in spite o' fact that there were little in diablo that Gromnir would wants in a crpg. oblivion reminded Gromnir o' a sandbox version o' diablo. no doubt this is reason why it weren't popular with Gromnir, but were popular with many fans and reviewers. names the number o' game reviewers that gots journalism degree from an ivy league school... or has written reviews for new york times or a similar publication. any fat arsed couch jockey with an internet connection can becomes a game reviewer. you suprised that reviews seems unprofesh-nul ? oblivion is a crpg... says so on box. reviewer likes oblivion. so, oblivion obviously gots all those qualities that makes for a good crpg. reverse is equal bad. just 'cause oblivion not got many qualities that Gromnir believes is integral for making a good crpg not mean that oblivion is a bad game. Gromnir didn't like oblivion, but we didn't like diablo neither. that being said, we can see why some people did like. sidenote: as much as oblivion were not our cup-o'-tea, we is glad that bethesda made it. for how long has developers at places likes obsidian been telling us that makings a really big game just weren't possible nowadays... we started hearing talk o' sub-thirty hour crpgs becoming typical. all of a sudden it seems that bigger games ain't so impossible after all. HA! Good Fun!

the quality of troika games, from fan perspective, has always been based on what tim promised in early previews, not on what ended up in games. am not sure why other developers weren't able to benefit from fan loyalty the way timmy did, but tim were judged not based 'pon what he delivered, but based on what he promised... tim were a great developer 'cause the stuff he said were gonna be in toee sounded great. sure, the alignemnt-based openings in toee were lame, and the way he manipulated d&d skills to offer rp options were terrible, but his vision sounded kewl, no? see, you gotta pretend that tim coulda' actually delivered 'pon his promises... if he had just gotten a little reasonable publisher support. 3 opportunities. 3 different publishers spent lots of money to screw troika projects and lose money for everybody. gotta believe that there were some complex conspiracy 'gainst timmy that resulted in multiple unrelated publishers spending millions o' dollars in an attempt to tarnish tim/troika legacy, but that seems kinda far-fetched to Gromnir. still, many tim fans seems convinced that tim gots raw deal. go figure. HA! Good Fun!

I meant in RL... But Whatever grommy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HA! such insight... what made you choose not to respond with, "I know you are, but what am I?" perhaps a mother joke were your next option? you know better than everybody else simply 'cause you you know. lord only knows why more people ain't overwhelmed by your reasoned discourse. "I'm not saying, incidentaly, that all games publishers should be expected to foster 'artistic' games. I just think that if we want them we have to support them, and to a certain extent barrack when potential is squandered." even if you were interested in having a publisher foster artistic merit at expense of quarterly report, we not know what that gots to do with troika. arcanum weren't exactly breaking new grounds from gameplay or story pov... and toee? HA! there were some interview over at ign in which troikanauts explained goals of toee... before relationship with atari went into the crapper. toee were 'posed to be first in line of a series of quick development crpgs that replicated old d&d modules... and it seems like tim and the troika guys never did play d&d modules 'cause they simply tried to recreate toee exact, and any dm knows that even a highly developed mod likes toee were simply a framework. regardless, from start, troika were aware of the limited expectations for toee... and those expectations weren't exactly of the New Art type, eh? never played bloodlines, so maybe in spite of reviews that game were approaching art, but as far as we can tell, the first two troika games were not exactly attempts to breaks new ground or makes players weep 'cause of depth o' tim's vision. seemed likes some pretty mediocre plebian entertainment goals. HA! Good Fun!

"I know what I know from own experience, and through contacts in the industry, Core Design, Team 17, Smaller Developers such as Creative North." and Gromnir knows 'bout relative job difficulty of game developers from having spoken with developers at bioware and black isle and click and cave dog and a half dozen other places... a few of which no longer exist. with few exceptions, game developers will bemoan how tough their job is, right up until they start talking 'bout how tough other jobs they has had. *chuckle* you know what you know... ss knows what he knows and Gromnir knows what he knows. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

as somebody who works for bethesda, regardless of the capacity, ss is no doubt able to observe first-hand the inner workings of a MAJOR game developer. if we is gonna subscribe to the whole Appeal to Authority stuff, then so far it looks like ss holds the trump card in this thread. HA! Good Fun!

so your seeming nuttyness is your way o' sending us all to a deep, dark place... and you enjoys doing so? fair 'nuff. HA! Good Fun! btw, (and this ain't directed at vol,) there is many jobs that require constant education to keeps pace with industry... we doubt game developer learning curve is tougher than doctor or lawyer or even accountant learning curve.

we gots common ground. HA! Good Fun!

Is that the Kanadian version of ROFLWTFBBQ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> is best not to ask too many questions 'bout what vol is thinking. HA! Good Fun!

atari had sales numbers for toee in the 300k range... which made it a slight better seller than the nwn expansions. regardless, your numbers show that all troika games were pretty pathetic sellers... so am not sure what point is being made with the wiki stuff. and vol is again comparing xbox to pc... not same. don't go off on your je defense again. HA! Good Fun!

"Arcanum, ToEE & Bloodlines were all excellent Games that sold quite well." numbers don't back that pov. lack o' sequels or expansions, if nothing else, should convince you that your belief is faulty, but we doubt it will. and as tough as it is to believe, our recollection is that atari were proven correct. toee ended up being the biggest seller for troika. fans of d&d bought in spite of poor reviews and terrible feedback. atari were counting on fact that initial sales that came in before end of quarter would soften blow of releasing a bad game. is a shame too... 'cause the turn-based combat in toee were pretty good. sadly, 'cause toee were a failure, now no publisher will touch tb combat in a d&d game. is typical publisher overreacting... much like the way publishers reacted to failure of ps:t. baby goes out with bathwater. HA! Good Fun!

"Then you must be a very very successful person earning in the region of $70,000+" thank you. "Look Trokia did the best with what they had to make the best quality products they could under the circumstance, business wise yeah they scrwed up" then they really DIDN'T do the best they could have... 'less you presume that their business failures on 3 different projects were unavoidable... which is pretty much insane. HA! Good Fun!

after much backtracking by some, we finally gots everybody to agree that troika were not very good at the business of making games. pretty much ends debate on actual issues. the "woe is troika" nonsense has been put to rest. now all folks have to talk 'bout in this thread is the tangential stuff. HA! Good Fun! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *Sigh* but trokia made some nice games, hence the dispute. Sometime I really wonder WHY you have not tried your hand in the games industry in a manager role, after all, you make out like you know it all <{POST_SNAPBACK}> know it all? no... and yet again, THAT is the point. Gromnir not know it all, but we seem to know more than did timmy 'bout some very basic aspects of running a business. besides which, we wouldn't wanna take a pay cut. and no, there were never a dispute 'bout whether or not troika made games you thought were good... that is simply where you retreated. is no way possible to argue your subjective belief. the article that inspired thread were a "woe is troika" article... troika got screwed. troika didn't get screwed. troika got 3 opportunities to lose publisher money. most developers we has spoken with would happily breaks at least 8 or 9 of the 10 commandments for 1 such chance, much less three. whether or not NatS likes troika games had little to do with article or thread... you is off-topic. HA! Good Fun!

after much backtracking by some, we finally gots everybody to agree that troika were not very good at the business of making games. pretty much ends debate on actual issues. the "woe is troika" nonsense has been put to rest. now all folks have to talk 'bout in this thread is the tangential stuff. HA! Good Fun!

I can, quite easily. Go install flooring, carpet is particularly strenuous and difficult. It has all the issues that game development has, AND physically intense. Doctor, lawyer, nurse, hell baby sitting is more difficult than game development. Get some perspective, game development isn't that tough. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> roofing supply were the most stressful and strenuous job we ever had. gets paid by square, so work with a bad crew or in bad weather and you get screwed. throwing and catching 40-60lb stacks o' tile on roof where it gets to be 120 degrees in california summer... and 'cause you is getting paid by square, many/most co-workers is on speed. worstest job we ever had. kiddie prison guard were stressful, but not strenous. were counter-intuitive, but high security were the least stressful unit. we liked being office manager at firm 'cause it were less real work than were our other job, but we knew that our skills were getting rusty the longer we did the management/organizational stuff. teaching were easiest and least stressful. current job can be very stressful... is much easier/better ways to make similar or better money. HA! Good Fun!

again, am not quite sure where sl is incomplete even based on NatS subjective standard. as you ain't never even played sl end it seems difficult for you to make any useful observations 'bout the quality of art of sl end. no ctds on an xbox game like sl and as rp noted, the only real bugs were data entry annoyances. also, before NatS even asked the question we had already stated that we ain't a game developer (poor reading skillz, eh?) am not quite sure why he brings up yet again, or what point is attempted to be made. *shrug* am guessing that our oubvious lack o' creativity hamstrings us from understanding such wacky non-linear reasoning as is being offered by NatS. perhaps some sorta fine arts degree might help us understand better? HA! Good Fun!

make fun of vol logic, but without having actually seen sl ending you is trying to argue that it were unfinished? comes up with a wonderful syllogism: if sl ending lacked art as some codexians claimed, then sl were clearly an unfinished product. HA! weren't no noticeable missing art or dialogues that went nowhere at end or any other noteworthy absence... were simply that end were pretty unfulfilling and anti-climactic. when asked 'bout ending, chrisA made some excuse that end were done the way intended... were 'posed to be an Empire Strikes Back ending. specific noted that ending of game weren't worked on last and got short changed. 'ccording to chris A, ending were done as envisioned... were simply crappy vision. is any game that has bugs unfinished? sl had, as rp points out, some pretty obvious data entry errors. does presence of those things makes game unfinished? if so we challenges you to name a crpg that has been truly finished. did sl have more such data entry bugs than did kotor? is a tough call. nobody seems to complain that kotor were unfinished, but there were loads o' minor and major data entry errors that gave some pretty bass ackwards results when selecting feats and powers. sl expanded rules quite a bit and had more such errors. never ran into a serious gameplay bug, but we understands that there were at least one... but weren't that also the case for kotor? your game could gets stuck on the leviathan as we recall. were also a few corrupted game save bugs reported for kotor. as rp admits, the state of toee and sl were hardly =. am not sure how peoples determines which games is or ain't unfinished and how many bugs would makes a game qualify as unfinished seems to change from person to person, but it really ain't fair to lump toee and sl together given the vast difference 'tween how polished were troika's game compared to obsidian's offering. HA! Good Fun!

why put "fallout wasn't good" in quotes? if Gromnir never said, then how can you put in quotes? fallout were a moderate success as far as sales were concerned... is what we said in This thread. however, to be fair, in past we has admitted that fo weren't as good as some fans seems to suggest... which ain't surprsing as it somehow has become codexian Holy Grail. furthermore, we has pointed out that if released today fo would not be near as well received... and we ain't talking tech issues. fo's best character were a dog? pretty lackluster writing... bar has been raised as far as story aspects is concerned. throw in all the balance problems and hidden timer, and host o' other issues and the freshness o' fallout setting would not inspire same fanaticism now that it did when it were an original release. that being said, we liked fo and we thought it were a good game. have said many times that it were a good game. fo2 were better in most ways, but fo was a good game. HA! Good Fun!

"That weakness CAN be anything." *chuckle* whatever lets you salvage some pride. the world ain't like some silly crpg with point-buy. and making crpgs is a very expensive Business... but again, if you can salvage some pride by tweaking a bit, so be it. HA! Good Fun!

agreed. they could lose publisher money likes nobody else. and no, that weren't only their fault... gotta wonder 'bout the publishers that kept giving 'em money to be pi$$ing away. HA! Good Fun!