Gromnir

Joinable NPCs shouldn't be critical to quests if you want to push for open gameplay (as I do). And if people only feel that choices that affect The One True Plot can be "real" choices, there aren't really any games that fit the mold, including Fallout. In Fallout you could defeat the Master in a few different ways or you could "end early" by getting dipped. People seem to enjoy the amount of choice in the Fallout games despite the limited number of main plot end states, so I'm not worried about it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> as to joinables, that is why we thinks they is so important... and have said so in past. joinables can be with you for entire game, and THEIR story/quest can be almost complete tangential. sure, can still contribute to critical path quest, but it can takes full 40-60 hours of gameplay to develop joinable character and however you ends up choosing to do the joinable quest need not break the critical path. the tangential and optional side quests is where you can make the choices in a game, 'cause those choices not affect the critical path. save village from warlord? sell-out village to warlord. steal warlord's stuff and get villagers to hire you for protection, then leave. ignore the village entirely. whatever. can only do different ways if village saving quest is NOT critical to plot. and we know that josh has read the complaints 'bout nwn2 and other games. 'course you is aware that a large % of people want impossible... want to choose how critical path develops... wanna break the critical path if they so desire. am certain we has seen you post at codex... this can't be news. when people on this and other boards talk 'bout THE story they ain't talking 'bout the gestalt results of combined critical path and optional quests and joinables... they is talking 'bout the critical path. had just that argument on these boards the other day. "oh, sure, in your game i can sell the baker's children into slavery or smuggle them to safety if i want, but i still end up being led around by the developers for 40 hours. that sucks. why can't i choose?" you want give people compelling critical path story and meaningful choices 'long the way? ok, but first you is gonna have to somehow convince people that THE story isn't what they think it is. again, is the tangential and optional side quests where you can gets choices, and the more of those quests you got, the more peoples talk 'bout non-linear... even if critical path is just as fixed as in nwn2. HA! Good Fun!

"The main plot is pretty basic and has very few plot critical components." that is kinda our point. is almost no real bifurcations. you got a pretty basic critical path and lots of optional and tangential side quests. real choices that have impact beyond the scope of the Tangential/Optional side quest is few. joinbale npcs can be both critical and optional side quest... may have aspects thats fit into critical path, but those plot critical elements is still gonna be largely fixed... the real "meaningful" choices is gonna be available as part of the tangential and optional side quests... which is gonna result in many peoles claiming that Real choices couldn't be made. strong story w/ bifurcations? not really possible. real meaningful choices w/o bifurcations? again, not really possible. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

tangential and optional side quests makes people feels like they is getting non-linear. is mostly smoke n' mirrors, but is a nice feature. meaningful choices that alter the narrative is complete other issue. is difficult to writes good story with multiple genuine bifurcations... choose-your-own-adventure books were popular in the early 80s, but they never really caught on... in part 'cause the narrative style is self-defeating, and also 'cause they rarely coulds finds a competent writer to works in that way. "When Janice stepped into the breach and held off the horde so that the Prince could escape, it was symbolic of..." "But Janice didn't hold off the horde in My story," says a fan of bifurcating stories. "In my game, Janice was stabbed in the back by Wil Of Sot, my morally challenged character." you wants deep and compelling story and characters AND many bifurcations resulting from meaningful choices. good luck. give a couple bifurcations of critical path and lots of optional and tangential side quests that can be having their own bifurcations as well. can't have too many bifurcations of critical path w/o ending up with a mess. HA! Good Fun!

Except that Superman in Frankies comics, is a complete wuss who is used by the government. Admittedly he's an earth bound GOD who's used by the government, but usually miller treats Superman like the worlds best punching bag and makes Superman into the bad guy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> is kinda funny. frank miller is 'posedley doing this patriotic tool doing red, white and blue fluff, but simultaneous we gots complaints that superman, the guy fighting for "truth, justice and the American way," is a complete wuss whenever miller gets a chance to write him into a comic. ... possibly you gets a thought right 'bout now? maybe even an epiphany? they ain't making a movie 'bout thermopylae. they is making a movie adaptation of a frank miller graphic novel. HA! Good Fun! HA! Good Fun!

frank miller: Tool of The Man. ... okie dokie. in any event, am kinda flattered that courage, honor and sacrifice is now considered "American." didn't think we had a monopoly. the movie looks like the comic... for better or worse. were no way to make look likes comic w/o substantial cgi. am trying to imagine just how much cgi would be needed for TDKR, another one of frank's flag waving stories. HA! Good Fun!

1) your dragon hide is useless 'cause there is only 2 in game. need 'least three to make armour. a developer mentioned that they was gonna change hide requirement to 2, but that not happen in patch 1.03. 2) am recalling that in-game is correct, but am not positive. 3)7 cleric + 10 warpriest does = a 12th level caster... which is why most pg folks stop taking warpriest after 4 levels. with a 16/4 cleric/warpriest you gets your extra attack and still can cast 9th level spells. end up with arguably the second most powerful build in game... right behind 16 druid/ 4 warpriest. after playing through once, Gromnir decideds that a LG rogue/priest of hoar is way to go for him... with a human able learner we can max out all social skills we wants, as well as getting tumble and umd. is maybe not the best combat character, but is pretty darn good ('specially once we gets persistent divine favor.) add in a couple of wands we got prepared for knock and bless weapon and we could easily solo... but point is to squeeze as much juice as possible out of game, not to beat... 'cause if you wanna beat easy all you gotta do is play at a difficulty less than max. 'course a rogue/wizard with able learner might accomplish same kinda results. hope that helps. HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir really didn't like this last episode. our profile at bio boards reads as follows: "Career Aspiration: Hero "one moment of foolhardy bravery can forgive a lifetime of sin and stupidity. what could be better?" got multiple meanings but is ultimately a joke. is partial a mocking recognition o' how writers tries to go for the heartstrings in a cheap and obvious manner. always bugs us when we seen done clumsy. everybody cheer for kat. kat pumps hands in air... victorious. kat then collapses. oh dear. dunno. we never liked kat character. can't stand starbuck. got an episode with both being central and a somewhat cheesy redemption bit... just didn't work for Gromnir, but we is a jaded old fart. btw, we watched the episode with a woman friend of ours, and she observed close to ending, "why do all the female characters on this show have to suck?" later she admitted that she likes dualla and the president, and baltar (who she thinks is so gay that he should count as a female cast member... but she thinks apollo is gay too, and she loathes him, so maybe it is a wash.) in any event, we generally likes the show... just weren't a big fan of recent episode. HA! Good Fun!

am still gawking at the size of the higher resolution files. we coulds download at work on monday, but such files makes Gromnir's personal dsl connection cry. *sigh* am gonna wait... not wanna view in crappy mode. HA! Good Fun!

I'm not. I obviously have to replay the game again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hey, keep in mind that you and pop may be right and Gromnir might be wrong. am simply trying to see how you and he got to your shared conclusion(s.) in any event, if kos character is so badly written that people ain't sure if he is a golem or not, that in itself might be a bit o' a problem. HA! Good Fun!

SPOILERS AHEAD I don't think the KoS made any plans, per se. To use an overthought comparison, the KoS is akin to a Lovecraftian god, potent but remote. The shadow priests are cultists who revere the KoS in the same way Lovecraft's cultists revered Cthulu. They follow him because they know he'll come anyway, and when he does they might be spared destruction. But like Cthulu, the KoS doesn't really concern himself with his cult's aims. The cult worships him, but their interests aren't his. Black Garius sought out the KoS out of a lust for power. He knew that the KoS was powerful and overestimated his ability. He thought he could steal the KoS' power and discard him, and instead he became enslaved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly! ^_^ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> maybe you only feel this way 'cause character were written so bad. what kos does to those elf chicks were kinda twisted... takes immagination and anger, not just programming. our character mocks garius for being the servant/slave o' garius, and garius not deny it... concedes he is slave, but is a slave with power, so he not mind. did anything the dead librarian or other spooks say suggest that the Guardian gave up his will as well as his soul? no? so why you jump to that conclusion? when some of the spirits were making excuses for the kos or complaining 'bout what were done to him you not think that they would add in fact that the Guardian were incapable of making intelligent choices? sure, the one spirit says that Guardian is still guarding, but that not mean that it is golem-like. crystal dragon not bring it up either. so the real question is, in spite of fact that there not seem to be no evidence to suggest that kos is golem-like, why you come to that conclusion? the hollow dialogue at end were bad dialogue, but is that the only thing that actually convinced you that kos were golem-like? we gots folks telling us that Guardian were twisted and perverted by shadow weave. we gots folks telling us that he were master of garius. we gots you holding an intelligent (but horrible) conversation with a seemingly intelligent being who not seem interested in allowing you to inspect his bellybutton as many games allows you to do. ... kos not seem golem-like save for fact that he gots no life... literal. he exists for a purpose, one purpose. such utter devotion and singlemindedness is gonna seem inhuman, but we not see mindlessness. you recall the terminator movies? the terminators ain't big conversationalists, but they got intelligence and can adapt. second terminator movie even got a terminator growing as a person once he is given programming that allows such growth. am not saying you is wrong, but other than gut, what sorta evidence is you guys using? HA! Good Fun!

"The KoS was evil, but not through any fault of his own. He did what he thought was necessary to protect the country he obviously loved a little too much. His actions weren't evil, but they led to him being evil by chance." that is why the whole shadow weave crap really hurt the story. shadow weave perverts the Guardian? why? use your explanation sans the shadow weave stuff. has final conflict with Guardian not be 'gainst some shadowy tusked monster. has Guardian BE simply the Guardian and you gots a much more sympathetic character. "That was the impression that I got when playing the game. He was basically a really powerful magic golem who's only purpose was to protect the Illefarn. The extent of his "thoughts" were "Are you an enemy of the Illefarn. If yes, then attack, else ignore."" is not how we saw. how you gots Guardian coming up with clandestine plans and making deals with garius and shadow priests n' such if he is simply golem-like? HA! Good Fun!

Don't speak for "most folks", because you can't. Speak for yourself, let the other two in your band of Riftworm -thread detractors speak for themselves. I earlier stated I care less if the anti-Riftworm 3 man coalition do or don't take me seriously, I pointed out you could run along if you weren't goint to stay on topic. Junai has a point. Let patch support and Atari be the topic, not me. this thread is about patch support, not your bias towards me, and inability to keep pertinent. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> woe is rift, eh? you ask a question. we gave an answer... or if it makes you feel better, we came up with a hypothesis. am not speaking for everybody so much as giving you a reasonable reason for people not taking you serious. and again, we got no real bias 'gainst you. as we said 'bove, we will (and do) judge each of your posts on their own merits. nevertheless, your thread is somewhat pointless. nwn sold well and atari wanted to keep franchise going... so they creates multiple expansions and continue support for years. if nwnw2 game does well 'nuff insofar as sales is concerned to merit future support, it will get future support. is not complicated. if game tanks, then atari will cut loses and wash hands of nwn2 as quick as possible, as there is no legit business reason to throw good money after bad. HA! Good Fun!

hasbro owns wotc. assume for a moment that wotc wants to do mature stuff ('cause their print material makes obvious that they is willing to do more adult if they get chance.) do you s'pose they gots carte blanche to do so? is not simple... and fact that tolkienesque and disneyfied fantasy still sells very is hardly motivating wotc to makes serious changes to policy. HA! Good Fun!

now ss, you is cheating vol and sargy of their due. HA! Good Fun!

you asked why. you asked to be told what were wrong with your thread. you questioned why your querry were deemed meritless. Gromnir gave you your answer... you made topical. oh, and we not claim that you is acting the rabid, foamy, fanatic in This thread. (still kinda slow, eh?) am explaining why most folks refuse to take you serious w/o ascribing motives you may not wish to be burdened with. HA! Good Fun!

and so the retreat begins for yet another poorly equipped foe. HA! Good Fun!

"those quotes aren't mine" *chuckle* well duh. did anybody think that those were quotes from rift? nevertheless, our point, which seemed to have gone right over your head, is that your previous threads and posts has identified you as a rabid nwn fanatic who gots little interest in reasonable debate. so, whether you think that it is fair or not, few people in this place is gonna read a post pf yours 'bout nwn2 w/o attributing motives. you made a bit of an arse of self with the ridiculous 50 thread (really, we never did see you give more than token support for more than 5 of those 50, and you waffled and did 180s on a few others,) and now you act the victim 'cause nobody takes you serious? shoulda' stuck w/5 or 'least admit that you were being hyperbolic for effect, but each post entrebched your rep as an irrational fanatic ever deeper into the average board poster's psyche. personally, Gromnir will consider each of your posts case by case, but we thinks it is foolish to act the victim here when you clearly brought this on yourself. HA! Good Fun!

as Gromnir warned already in the now defunct thread, rift's clearly hyperbolic and outrageous claims made it so nobody would take him/her serious. now even if rift were to makes a valid contribution it is gonna get dismissed... or at least it is less likely to gets serious consideration. "Hi. I'm Riftworm, a nwn fanatic who likes to imagine strengths into the first nwn game, and faults into the second. I was expecting more from nwn2, much more. Obsidian failed to meet my expectations and because of that I will hound and harry them as best I can. "However, please keep in mind that even the most bitter, obtuse and irrational poster on a message board can, against all odd, make a valid point, so please do not dismiss me out of hand. "Thank you." okie dokie. rift has to do some serious damage control if he wants peoples to take him serious... whether rift thinks that is fair or not. is just the way it is chum. HA! Good Fun!

vol, vol, vol... if the guys at ea bragged 'bout how they filmed selves playing flag football to gets kewl new animation captures for Madden 2007, we would has similar criticisms. catch a bunch o' nerdling developers larping is hardly our notion of a kewl new feature... but if some of you folks is impressed, or if you feels some empathy for biowarian physical limitations being attacked by Gromnir, then so be it. HA! Good Fun!

"That's why you have animators, who with a little luck are even themselves professionals in fencing or any other sport. " oh sure, we can name lots of animators who is also pro atheletes. sorry, but trash can lid and stick sword battles is not something we would brag 'bout. 'least for their silly language stuff the biowarians went out and gots a grad student as an expert, but larping biowarians hardly impress Gromnir none. HA! Good Fun!

liberty is antithetical to democracy. you wanna live in a democratic country? fine. democracy is Gromnir giving up his right to do what he wishes if the majority thinks some alternative is best. we gots a representative democracy. the Bill of Rights is our defense against the tyranny of the majority. you wants to make new law that allows people to avoid draft as a matter of conscience? sure, you can do that, but that is purpose of Amendments to the Constitution. if majority doesn't like you using flag as toilet paper to make a point, they can go howl for all the good it will do 'em, 'cause Bill o' Rights allows you to do so. is easy being in favor of govt. paying for infrastucture and eductaion, but not for wars in foreign lands. fine. however, you use vote to get things changed... or you can leave. democracy is opposed to excercise of liberty. you sacrifice liberty for benefit of democracy. we got no contempt for those who feels strong enough 'bout not fighting that they would risk substantial imprisionment, but that is part of the deal... thoreau would understand. HA! Good Fun!

predictable. *shrug* to stay on-topic we does note that if anybody really thinks that combat animations will look keener 'cause biowarians smack each other with fake swords and sticks and catch on film, then we is more than a little surprised. this is their version of madden football animation capture? goes out and film brian urlacher to get lb moves ain't quite same as uncoordinated nerdling biowarians filming each other larp. HA! Good Fun!

*chuckle* ah well, in the spirit of holiday season we is gonna let you off the hook...'cause you has been off the hook for some time now. is getting pretty far off-topic in any event. HA! Good Fun!

this is getting ridiculous. alan simply wants to be contrarian. so be it. in any event, anybody that believes that the biowarians not snack at work (gaider? *cough*) is just plain nuts. and skinny nerds is typical not all that more athletic than priestly sized nerds. in any event, we is gonna resign self to realizing that alan will simply says white every time we says black... 'least for near fitutre. get over it chum. HA! Good Fun!

am guessing that pizza counts as a restaurant food. in any event, you was talking 'bout going to bio... now you is talking 'bout going out to eat. you gots a hard time staying focused on stuff lately. HA! Good Fun!