Gromnir

I didn't, I made the point that Richter was not the be all and end all straight away, to whit: "..only 6.3 but had around 3 times the ground acceleration (~ practical effect.." I've known about Mercalli since I was around 10 (belated thanks due to HS and his social studies lessons, see, I did learn something) and, frankly, that was all the knowledge needed, the rest is just looking up the relevant numbers and basic observation. Personally, I'm happy to concede that there is a fair probability that someone who lives in the US knows more about their law than I do, whether your last name happens to be Scalia or not. *chuckle* you indicated that 5.8 RICHTER, were pretty significant. selective quotes not help you in this matter. you also has implied that you got knowledge o' natural sciences superior to Gromnir and that we should defer... a bold suggestion. based on what you has provided thus far, we ain't so impressed, and we will choose not to offer any special deference to you on matters o' natural science. thanks anyways. am not willing to assume that somebody who lives elsewhere (am guessing new zealand) knows more o' natural sciences than does our self. sorry, no particular famous new zealand scientists come to mind, so we cannot effective parrot the Scalia quip. HA! Good Fun! ps sorry, you actual keep referencing 5.9. not wanna false attribute. the east coast quake were 5.8 'ccording to us geological, but were reported (briefly) as 5.9. even so, we not wanna be putting words in your mouth.

Just read the Wiki version of this...sad. Were you born there? Do you have a Native American birth name? were born in evanston, il, but spent first 12 years of life in the dakotas (mostly pine ridge). name issue is... complicated. HA! Good Fun!

Even if they are only replaced by nominal democracies that work for all intents and purposes like the regimes they toppled? Even if they are plunged into an intermittent state of civil war? Even if living standards take a hit for all but the leading "revolutionaries"? Even if it leads to an anti-Western sentiment across the board? Okay, so then, other than the obvious lucrative reconstruction, weapons and raw materials contracts, how exactly is that a success? A success for whom, anyway? That's the Desert Rats shoulder patch from, you know, way back when Brits actually fought fascism. I think the reference is in kinda poor taste... you offer more than a few worst-case-scenario "ifs," no? and yeah, the stability that some dictators provide should not be dismissed. is very easy for folks in the west to dismiss some simple freedoms such as freedom from starvation. is sacrifice o' freedom o' expression worth a chicken in every pot? *shrug* nevertheless, Q was having increasing difficulty providing basic needs while still denying liberties we take for granted in the west. he were gonna fail eventual, which is why even the oil companies such as bp and eni were willing to support rebels in spite o' the fact that they had contracts with Q. also, am thinking you ignore that removal o' a dictator like Q, who overt funded and provided sanctuary for terrorist operations, is gonna result in a decrease in regional terrorist concerns... at least in the near future. we will concede that there will be an inevitable increase in violent crime perpetrated by citizens following the removal o' a dictator or totalitarian regime. people gets freedom for first time in many years and some elements is bound to use such freedom to do bad. Gromnir is not a Freedom At Any Price guy. pine ridge suffered from what amounts to 3rd world standard o' living; gave us perspective. watch children die o' easily curable diseases and suffer from malnutrition makes stuff like representative democracy and freedom o' speech seems like luxuries. would Gromnir trade liberty for the security? no, but we not have a wife or kids. is easy for Gromnir to be all enlightened and superior, eh? HA! Good Fun!

... who? HA! Good Fun!

That quake killed nine. Rather a lot of poorly secured Elvises in Spain, it appears. I'll make a deal with you, I won't try and correct you on matters of US law, you don't try and correct me on matters of science natural. yes, badly secured elvis is probable a good comparison. a very old church had part o' a roof/cieling drop killing some. similarly, a fragile overhang cornice on an equal old bit o' architecture fell killing 3. etc. lethality o' a quake is frequent a matter o' shoddy construction rather than measure o' severity o' earth movement... is typical why impoverished locales suffer much higher casualties following seeming smallish quakes. 3 little pigs. as for your deal... okie doki, but am gonna observe that you were using richter as the measure. you is kinda being self contradictory, no? use richter to says a quake is significant but then noting that mercalli is a more appropriate measure 'cause richter don't give a true impression? also, am not sure how you is using natural science or the basis o' your expertise. Gromnir not claim to be a natural science expert, in part 'cause we do not know what natural science is... very ambiguous term that can encompass a dizzying array o' disciplines. would be exceeding arrogant to claims expertise in natural science entirety. you gots a masters in geology or geophysics? edit added link for reference: http://www.cam.ac.uk/about/natscitripos/links.html btw, am gonna note that we didn't actual initial boast specific expertise in us law. we did ask why folks like walsh and oro were so certain o' their opinions o' us law. afterwards folks questioned our background to be questioning walsh and oro. sssssoooooooo... HA! Good Fun!

the fact that people died ain't relevant. maybe means that many buildings in spain is quite old and not built with earthquake tolerance in mind? hell, barely perceptible earthquakes is sometimes killers just 'cause o' simple gravity... decorative plate with elvis painting falls off wall and kills earnest dominguez when a 4.0 hits near diablo mountain, ca? *snort* regardless, experience a 6.3 don't give much o' an impression o' what a 5.8 is like. is Exponential different. HA! Good Fun!

just to repeat, 'cause is something most folks not seem to realize, the richter scale is represented by an exponential growth curve. there is a very significant difference 'tween 5.8 and 6.3. HA! Good Fun!

No, you guys just freak out over an inch of snow blue canyon, ca gets something like 240' o' snow per year. is a Big state. however, am gonna concede that most californians seems to be disproportionate spooked by rain and weather in general. even in nor cal where they gets good seasonal rainfalls, many drivers act as if it were hydrofluoric acid falling from the sky 'stead o' water. 'o, and north or south, coast or mountains, ca earthquakes is relative ignored 'less you get at least into low 6's... and keep in mind that seismic orders o' magnitude is not simple linear... is a huge difference 'tween 5.8 and 6.2. that being said, even when we were in so cal, we typical never even woke up for the 5 range quakes. is always disappointing when news announces nighttime quake and we realize we slept through another one. stuff in ca is built with much greater earthquake tolerances, and apparent Gromnir gots some kinda seismic blinders when we sleep. HA! Good Fun!

we were similar confused by oby/lof picture post. seemed to be a suggestion o' fraud by the media regarding locations o' rebel attacks. "To cover it up and in the same time spread chaos and panic among Libyans, a set of Tripoli's Green Square, Bab al-Azizya and several streets was constructed in Doha, Qatar, and videos of successful uprising in Tripoli and its takeover by the rebels were being made. The directors used the same stratagem that their civilian counterparts in Vietnam War movies: to draw their supposed victories. " am thinking that this is oby/lof version o' the moon landing conspiracy... or maybe the jedi mind trick. perhaps convince the world that the rebels were never really in tripoli? HA! Good Fun!

what? you hasn't heard the news that john madden came out o' retirement and is now working as a color commentator for al-jazeera? apparently mr. madden likes qaddafi/gaddafi toughness... compared him to brett favre. given the fact that the loyalists has a strong pass rush and quality dbs, madden predicts that qaddafi will utilize a modified tamap-2 d to keep the rebels off balance. "Bam!" HA! Good Fun!

happened a couple years ago. as something o' an authority on first amendment issues, Gromnir were invited by a local kkk chapter to witness a cross burning (is a surprising number o' kkk members in CA.) our initial reaction were knee-jerk refusal and furious indignation. nevertheless, we ended up attending; curiosity got the better o' us. sure, we had seen cross burnings in film and on tv, but we were genuine curious how we would comport self when confronted by the act, live and in person. you don't see too many catholic, indians at cross burnings, eh? would we be able to watch dispassionately? would we be enraged or maybe even a little frightened? were a fascinating, if obscene, exercise. simultaneous repulsed and intrigued we were. were all pretty boring at start... looked not much different than a kiwanis picnic. slightly fat 40-something white guys in khakis and golf shirts shaking hands and telling bad jokes. then there were some forgettable rhetoric that nearly put us to sleep. etc. fast forward. the guy who lit the cross ablaze somehow managed to set himself on fire. apparently his robe were not flame retardant, and am guessing he happened to get some sorta accelerant on his garb 'cause it were kinda shocking how fast his garment burned. the guy screamed piteously, and flailed 'bout before dropping to the ground and rolling 'bout ineffectually. so much for **** van dyke's advice, eh? a fellow clansman had the presence o' mind to use a precautionary fire extinguisher to abate the flames. the whole fiasco probable lasted less than a minute, and the "event" were quickly cancelled. we found out later that the crispy klaner were not hurt too bad: mostly second degree burns. ... on the negative side, we found out that Gromnir can takes pleasure in the suffering o' others. watching that kkk member burn were possibly the funniest thing we had ever witnessed... and we had a tape o' the event too. on the positive side, we gots finally gots a fond klan memory. the reason why we bring up now is 'cause we looked for our favorite crossburner-burning tape last night. is missing. *sigh* even so, as sick as it sounds, seeing the kkk member accidental set himself on fire at a cross burning were a kinda surreal poetic justice... and it were funny. HA! Good Fun!

huh? follow oby/lof is like trying to read images on a spinning top: even if such were possible, it would result in a serious headache. ssssssooooooooo.... is Q winning or losing? 'ccording to you, Q were doing a bang-up job o' stomping rebellious rats a couple o' days ago, no? how does things look for Q today? HA! Good Fun!

1) history suggests no quick victory 2) he hadn't worked around the internal issues that led to rebellion again, escalation o' violence against people and infrastructure does not signal imminent victory to anybody. give us an example o' the successful despot quickly putting down rebellion AFTER he has had to destroy sizable portions of his own infrastructure. we can think o' only one or two... maybe. is very long odds. and again, if Q couldn't fix the internal problems that led to the rebellion in the first place, what makes you think he would sudden be More capable o' fixing after having had to spend huge resources on mercenaries, military hardware, and infrastructure rebuild? you really ain't making sense. honest. oh, and we do not think the new regime (whoever they is) will have any better chance o' fixing internal problems than did Q... not without substantial western support.... and there is the clincher, no? getting rid o' Q is an end. many people in the west has wanted him gone for a long time. can trace Many terrorist actions over past +3 decades back to Q support. Q were a bad dude with no love for the west, so getting rid o' him is an end in and of itself. furthermore, since the libyans won't be able to fix the problems Q left behind, they is gonna need rely on aid. french and english have positioned themselves favorably for initial support o' the new regime; another win from western pov... although personally we thinks the cost o' maintaining peace will be very high. is still gonna be those antagonistic tribal factions trying to kill each other off for some time. HA! Good Fun!

"I don't think its an exaggeration. I remember a large string of defeats for the rebels up until NATO intervened." ... that is what you base your prediction o' impending Q victory? fighting homegrown guerrillas is NOT like conventional warfare. for chrissakes, how many victories did the soviets have in afghanistan? anybody wanna pick a rebellion in central america, the middle east or aisa where the rebels were better equipped and won more initial victories than the eventual deposed regime? being better equipped and winning "victories" is hardly a measure o' success. Q were ESCALATING the amount o' force and violence 'pon the rebels, destroying his own infrastructure. is hardly indicators o' imminent crushery, eh? "A good question is how far the rebels would have gotten in the first place without outside intelligence support and political support." why is that a good question? not change the fact that they got support. is hardly unusual for domestic guerrilla fighters to gets support from foreign powers. you wanna play hypothetical scenarios o' some kinda complete insular uprising? *chuckle* be our guest. regardless, Q's four decades in power were seriously threatened before the first shots o' rebellion were fired. the widespread housing riots were not gonna get solved by cunning and sneakery... needed more housing. there were no solution on the horizon for Q. Q were a terrorist supporter and despot that were tolerated just so long as he could keep his house in order. as o' 2011, he could no longer keep his people housed. sure, maybe he holds on an extra year or two and destroys more o' his own infrastructure while possibly spreading violence beyond his borders, but eventually he goes and somebody is stuck rebuilding. made far more sense to step in before Q ruined his nation in a vain attempt to maintain power. maybe you think it is immoral for western nations to dictate the future o' the libyas o' the world. maybe you is right. not change nothing. HA! Good Fun!

I wish you luck arguing that Quaddafi couldn't have gotten things stable quicker and more efficiently than anyone else, considering that he almost had them crushed. bit of an exaggeration, no? and in any event, the problems Q was facing before the actual outbreak o' open rebellion were unlikely to get fixed anytime soon. turn back the clock to beginning of 2011 and looks at the housing riots. yeah, "stability" and "revolution" is pretty much antagonistic concepts. even so, once it became clear that Q would not be able to maintain any serious semblance o' "stability," folks in the west decided to step in and let slip the dogs o' war. Q were only tolerable as long as he could maintain stability in a relative unstable region... try to do something serious to remove Q earlier than this year woulda' caused problems in the rest o' the region. well guess what? as o' 2011 the arab spring (or whatever you wanna call it) were already underway and Q were experiencing serious domestic instability. reasons for west to play nice with Q were disappearing quick. HA! Good Fun!

you is very optimistic. as Gromnir, enoch and others has mentioned, libyans gots tribal & familial allegiance rather than a national identity. once Q is gone, no doubt those tribal/familial factions that were not part o' Q's ruling alliance will looks at their "libyan" peers with brotherhood in their hearts and open arms.... or not. ... am not envious o' the french and brits 'cause am seeing no end to bloodshed in libya anytime soon. keeping the formerly oppressed from committing atrocities 'pon their former oppressors is gonna be, we suspect, no easy task. oby/lof is no doubt familiar with post revolution purges, although we bet she/he gots a unique spin. regardless, am suspecting that it will be a while before genuine fighting stops... am just curious to see how the french, brits or nato handle post Q libya. might be smartest to simple let 'em kill each other 'til they run out o' bullets or anger, but that wouldn't be very politic. HA! Good Fun!

I very much doubt it. Unmanned may be fine for the drone's current role of cheap and cheerful ground attack but the idea of some sort of centralised control for air to air combat fighters? Too prone to ECM, too little situational awareness/ more ephemeral 'feel' and instinct aspects, too much latency. Not to mention that the idea of having aircraft basically stop working if their control centre is destroyed strikes me as a terrible idea- damage a carrier and all its aircraft drop out of the sky/ go into some sort of holding pattern/ nuke a chunk of the Nevada desert and suddenly a third of the airforce is unusable/ take out the satellites and effectively ground the entire airforce. And there's no realistic prospect of wholly independent combat robots in the near future (or pretty much ever, imo) as you simply cannot program for all the vagaries of combat. part o' the problem is that the aircraft has finally reached a performance level whereby the pilots is a limit on their efficacy. am not thinking we is talking 'bout wholly unmanned aircraft anytime in the new future, but is more likely than coming up with a new generation o' fighters... is no more great leap in fighter craft design 'cause the pilots simply cannot handle another serious leap in performance; you cannot improve the planes without also improving the pilots. major refinements o' avionics and weapons is gonna continue, but most indicators suggest that this is the last generation o' manned fighters. ... but again, much o' this talk is very familiar to folks who lived during the 70's and 80's. HA! Good Fun!

problematic: "going for the throat" is kewl... pilots like kewl. am suspecting that "pulling her hair," and "scratching out her eyes," will never enter pilot vernacular. HA! Good Fun!

which is why it is so problematic. what keeps the security patrols, and maintenance crews from going all State of Nature on the rich folks in woodside/menlo if an opportunity presented itself? HA! Good Fun!

Notice the use of "Was a dogfighter" rather than "was/is a fighter". Meaning it wasn't called that classification, but was known for dogfighting. I don't think any aircraft currently used is actually referred to as a "dogfighter" and are instead just called fighters. ... then, am not sure of your point. not that it genuine matters. regardless o' nomenclature, the russians ain't built a fighter o' any flavor that could even compete with the west's best since the early 1970's, and the last time the russians/soviet had a clear winner were the mig-15... which were still (technically) a first generation fighter aircraft. heck, the current russian aircraft being discussed is being compared to an american plane that first flew in 1990 and went into production in the late 90's. for those not holding a calender, the current year is 2011. btw, we thinks that the sukhoi pak fa can be an excellent option for india, south korea and others who do not need (or cannot afford) the extravagance o' the raptor. am not sure what kinda profit russia is looking at per unit, but anything they can do to diversify from their current dependence on natural resource export is a good thing. HA! Good Fun!

If the population is sufficiently low I actually think it would work very well.. A large population however and you've got Rapture. am gonna disagree. low #s can be even more problematic. scarcity o' necessary skills creates all manner o' potential imbalances. is an exaggeration, but when your desalinization apparatus breakdown, the guy who can wield a wrench sudden becomes irreplaceable... and he/she is gonna know it. is not like some sci-fi mars mission wherein all peoples work together 'cause their lives is dependent on everybody working together. the Real World is gonna be within reach, and we suspect that the potential for opportunistic behavior will result in humans acting very... human. HA! Good Fun!

maybe the tug volunteers HA! Good Fun! ps we would love to see one o' these bubble society projects get off the ground. am doubting things go as bad as the stanford prisoners and guards experiment, but am expecting that there will be some noteworthy havoc at some point.

is all very harypota from our pov. we got the sat and act for those kids wanting to go on to university... is voluntary testing. the standardized tests and exit exams that all kids in a US school would needs take are, for the most part, minimum threshold tests. SCHOOLS is concerned with the % o' students that pass or excel, but individual students is doubtful concerned with such stuff. that being said, for as long as we can recall, there has been claims that the sat and act were being diluted. also, the sat finally added a new writing aspect to their test some numbers o' years ago. universities were initial dismissive o' this portion until they learned that the writing portion were actual the most accurate indicator o' collegiate success. however, is particular easy to accuse the college board people o' dilution and subjectivity with the writing, no? ... 'pon reflection, em embarrassed to admit that we still 'member our sat, ap, lsat and gre scores. didn't think we were that vain, but there you go. HA! Good Fun!

probable... but we has heard that since f-16 and f-15 days too. nevertheless, we tend to agree with gorgon. that being said, what we knows is a product o' reading too much jane's and some familial relations with current and former navy and marine pilots. btw, for calax, the bulk o' soviet interceptors were fast and less than agile, but keeps in mind that the term gets used wrong frequent. is nothing preventing an interceptor from being agile. is limited mission design that makes for definition o' interceptor. HA! Good Fun!

don't confuse dogfighting with fighter. is not the same. HA! Good Fun!