Gromnir

eh? what planet are you from? rewards for competition is very real... is why children is taught to seek the Win at early ages. is a primitive and real drive to compete for food, sex, shelter, etc. winner lives. more "advanced" cultures has not genuine changed. the guy with the best test scores and grades gets to go to the best schools. there can be very real and tangible rewards for excelling at sports, and winning in competition is a mark o' excellence. we still compete and gets rewarded daily. maybe is not tooth and nail competition for base survival, but we still compete for sex and money... even in those backwards socialist countries. is just plain sad if completionist trophies is the gamer's substitute for the rational and real rewards o' competition. HA! Good Fun! ps keep in mind that Gromnir is not advocating some kinda ulta-competitive mentality. is extreme unhealthy when everything in a person's life is competition. nevertheless, we thinks it would be a bit myopic to suggest that rewards for competition is irrational.

The Byzantines had a mass of political maneuverings, infighting, backstabbing and general fun and games going on. The Imperial Court, the Bureaucracy, the Nobility, the Soldiers, and that's only keeping to what was happening within the Empire. Take in the efforts of the Persians as neighbours... They also had the cold war and on/off border skirmishes and outright short wars over a few centuries. Something that the Sith Inquisitor should have a good handle on. So therefore, someone with knowledge of how that sort of stuff actually happens.. is more likely to produce an interesting setup then someone who has no clue at all. is tough to recollect an empire that didn't have "a mass of political maneuverings, infighting, backstabbing and general fun and games going on." dunno. Gromnir has almost no knowledge o' star wars old republic lore beyond the bioware and obsidian games, so am not sure how much byzantium parallels the sith. *shrug* IF rebecca is a competent writer, then real life historical influences is unlikely to hurt. she gots a source o' inspiration that might not be available to the average game writer. HA! Good Fun!

Now let's try exchanging the word challenge for trophy, medal, ring, ribbon, or belt. Not only will people pay to try for those things, other people will pay to watch them try. am not certain that this an accurate parallel, is it? use skate park analogy again. try to sell completion medals to kids at the local skate park. you is not giving out medals or trophies for competition, but for completion o' arbitrary tricks. if you pay a fee, you gets a little medal for each verified trick completed. am s'posing this might sell... for 'bout ten seconds. medals and trophies don't mean a heck o' a lot to anybody 'less they is won and exclusive. if everybody gets, then where is the thrill? am s'posing it takes a gamer to see the thrill in wal examples. we beat Joliet Catholic for the sectional championship is a bit different than a digital token for completing an arbitrary game challenge... a challenge created by some developer schnook. HA! Good Fun.

the sad thing 'bout this is that we is certain that you is serious and genuine. try this little experiment: go to a local skate park, rugby pitch or school playground. find a group o' kids engaged in some activity and offer them kewl challenges. even better, ask the kids to Pay for your challenges. just try it. ask a bunch o' skater punks to buy your carefully crafted list o' challenges. let us know what kind feedback you get. the notion o' selling achievements and challenges is a kinda special idiocy limited to the game industry. any other group o' enthusiasts is gonna wanna generate their own challenges, and they surely ain't gonna thinks that a product with such challenges is a selling point worth noting. achievement/challenge mentality o' gamers is freaking nuts. HA! Good Fun!

the above statement is chock full o' gamer's pith. *groan* the challenges is cool? any schnook on this board coulda' posted a list o' "challenges" that would be no less challenging and no less deserving o' a price tag. sure, you get no silly achievement tag if you complete a vol challenge or a goth challenge, but by the same token you would not be asked to pay for a goth challenge. the challenges wal identifies is representing the current high water mark o' gamer absurdity. maybe next obsidian will release a dlc that is nothing more than additional challenges... 'cause they is cool. HA! Good Fun!

am recalling a guy we played ball with in high school. we can still 'member him going into painstaking detail 'bout how he would spend his 100 million dollars if/when he won the lottery. he had plans 'bout how to deal with taxes and how he would choose between lump sum or payments. am recalling he had a car picked out... and not just the car but all the features and which dealership 'n such. would set aside some for college, and some for his mom. he were seriously considering the benefits o' stocks over real estate investments. etc. dork. the guy were a dork. were kinda funny to watch him seriously debate that which were never gonna happen. anyways, for some reason we is recalling the guy from high school who were planning out how to spend his anticipated lottery winnings. HA! Good Fun!

keep in mind that we do not single out bio in this regard. sure, bio has shown that they is complete untrustworthy regarding their Hours Of Unique Gameplay claims, but am certain that folks will recall similar bloated claims from other developers. now that t_cain is at obsidian, it could be amusing to reflect 'pon the claims made by troika regarding their opening vignettes-- those vingettes were 'posed to have considerable gameply impact on the remaining game. *snort* is not bio alone that is making ridiculous claims 'bout unique gameplay experiences, but the canucks has shown that their claims is laughable and should not be relied 'pon. HA! Good Fun!

You mean Dragon Age? that is only the most recent incarnation o' the claim. sure, da: origins was going to lead to unique gameplay for each class/race combo... but those o' us who recalls nwn development can tell you that da:o were hardly the first time bio made wildly inflated claims 'bout the unique gameplay content for each class offering. as hard as it is to believe for anybody that played nwn, that game were also claimed to offer a unique experience for each class. what bio means by unique content is NOT what the average gamer would describe as unique. each time bio makes such a claim, Gromnir cannot help but chuckle. the sad thing is that folks continue to believe in spite o' evidence o' the past. HA! Good Fun!

Given that they have something like 100 hours of unique content for each class (8 total) I think it will last me a good while. perhaps tor will be different, but you may not realize that bio has made virtually this exact same claim multiple times in the past. HA! Good Fun!

admission-- am gonna freely concede that our observations is colored by our personal lack o' anticipation regarding the mp functionality o' me3. no doubt there is loads o' folks who is genuine anticipating the mp in me3, but our desire to use is zero. compare to shale-- even if we had no particular enthusiasm regarding shale, we recognized that we would get use from her as the character and her related quest were part o' the single player game we purchased. on the other hand, assume for a second that warden's keep had been a day 1 offering that were only playable as a co-op mp quest. if warden's keep were mp, then we would never have played.... woulda' been complete superfluous content for Gromnir. if a person purchases a sp game, you can be pretty certain that the individual wants to play a sp game. speaking from personal experience, not every person who purchases a sp game would have interest in mp functionality. that being said, we recognize that our complete lack o' interest regarding mp content very well could put us in some extreme minority. wouldn't be the first time for us to be in the minority. HA! Good Fun!

Objection your honour: strawman argument. Sex, dude. The whole Bond thing was related to how the jedi (or how GL considers the jedi to) see sex. Nothing to do with field work except as it pertained to sex and the sillier Bond's propensity for having it as often, and as casual, as possible. That's the whole point of me agreeing with Raithe's analogy so long as it was the 'sillier' ones, since the most recent Bond movie, in a fit of equally un-Bond like continuity, had him trying to avenge the squeeze who died at the end of the last one which by jedi dictates is bad bad bad. In terms of sex Yoda most definitely appears (semi-official poster art notwithstanding) to fit the M mould of not having it, perhaps never having had it and possibly never even having thought about it except in the context of wanting Bond to stop flirting with Moneypenny. But hey, feel free to draw as long a bow as you like from the comparison, you'll just continue to prove Jaesun right. hardly strawman. you made the comparison 'tween bond and jedi-- but you now add odd limitations. regardless, am seeing your parallel as less tenable now that you has focused. am not certain we can recall a bond film in which the protagonist did not engage in considerable seduction and at least some actual consummation. you yourself note that bond has sex more than mere frequent, no? you is genuine suggesting the the bond stuff is inspirational, but clear the behavior ain't carried over. Gromnir is hardly an expert on star wars canon, but am unable to name a single jedi that would seem to recollect bond's philandering ways. as for motivation behind bond's actions, we has been told in multiple movies that bond gots personal issues related to women 'cause o' past mistakes. his past relations has resulted in more than a few demons and regrets. he acts very emotional regarding the women with whom he has become involved. not only has his casual dalliances failed to shield him, but his painful baggage is 'sposed the reason he don't wish to be involved serious. the jedi code hardly seems a reactionary tool 'cause the jedi in question cannot exorcise old ghosts. 'kinda bass akwards. am honestly not seeing where you goes with the yoda thing. leaders o' jedi order never have sex, and possibly is "never even having thought about it," but the rank and file jedi is hitting studiou 54 like there is no tomorrow. am certain you sees the problem with that, eh? as for the silly jaesun comment... bad cess. by responding to you without agreeing we is somehow exhibiting a character flaw? HA! since you is fond o' identifying logic flaws, perhaps you feel like sharing which category in which to file your most recent flaw. were a horrible (and kinda pathetic) response that does not actual tarnish Gromnir's character as it does yours. HA! Good Fun!

Limiting second-hand sales seems a more likely explanation to me. that would make more sense if it actually prevented second-hand purchasers from making use o' the game. only Potentially limits the folks who is needing to play the mp aspect o' the game. spend how much extra money to develop, integrate and test mp just to limit a % o' second-hand purchasers? doesn't make much sense to us. HA! Good Fun! New copy DLC has been a strategy EA has been using for a while, and with BioWare too, just see the Cerberus Network in Mass Effect 2 or Shale in Dragon Age: Origins. Multiplayer is particularly hefty, yeah, but we're still talking about a small self-contained (for the most part) mode that EA also probably believes may increase sales. Again, it may very well be that you're right, I'm just not seeing how they could gather MMO-related data from it, since I doubt an MMO would have a similar structure and I think (but I'm not a programmer) that the network code would be pretty damn different too. is not genuine parallel, is it? as you note, shale and cerberus ain't nearly as resource intensive to develop, implement, and test. the stuff you mentions were, if not simple additions, they were part o' the core development o' the game... just makes people needs pay to get some aspect that were effective part o' the core game. in any event, the mp missions is not something that a sp only player is gonna be feeling like they is missing out on, is they? everybody who played da:o played sp, so an sp feature coulds potential appeal to every player. not every player o' me3 is gonna want to make use o' the mp aspect... is far more limited in terms o' potential appeal. so, ea spends more money on an aspect that gots less chance o' discouraging second hand? would also like to point out that neither shale nor cerberus prevented second hand. just doesn't make sense to us as a second-hand deterrent. HA! Good Fun!

Limiting second-hand sales seems a more likely explanation to me. that would make more sense if it actually prevented second-hand purchasers from making use o' the game. only Potentially limits the folks who is needing to play the mp aspect o' the game. spend how much extra money to develop, integrate and test mp just to limit a % o' second-hand purchasers? doesn't make much sense to us. HA! Good Fun!

bioware and ea has spent literal millions o' dollars and no little time and effort to make the mass effect franchise popular. is not like kotor wherein bio made lucas' property more valuable... or bg and nwn, which belonged ultimately to hasbro. ea/bio now has themselves a very valuable property that belongs to no other outside entity. so, how does one squeeze more money outta this very ripe tomato? could make more mass effect games much like the firstest 3. they could sell-off bits and pieces o' the franchise rights. they could also go the mmo route with its big risk v. bigger rewards scenario. why wouldn't ea wanna get some feedback o' mass effect mp from potential millions o' test subjects? seems like a no-brainer as to why ea/bio would throws in an mp aspect to the final mass effect game. HA! Good Fun!

... 'cause when we think o' yoda, we immediate recollect roger moore as bond in octopussy... crashing the khan's palace with a menagerie o' circus side-show supermodels. Yeah, or Yoda might be equivalent to some sort of leader, I don't know, M? Or maybe not... so, 'stead 'o being ultra-powerful masters o' a largely autonomous, quasi-religious and mystical order o' sword wielding "peacekeepers," yoda, and smauel l. jackson is more like slightly befuddled bureaucrats, no longer capable o' working in the field themselves, who sits in an office and act exasperated when they gets reports o' their agent's behavior. am not seeing much o' the bond influence... 'least not anymore than would be in common with old errol flynn swashbucklers or american westerns. HA! Good Fun!

I don't know. I would guess Lucas thinks about this stuff a lot. He just changes his mind often. Nothing wrong with that though. It's all just made-up FEPO stuff anyway. am suspecting that the fans is perhaps more interested in maintaining some kinda imaginary integrity o' the franchise than is lucas. first movie had lucas demand that carrie fisher's chest be strapped down so as to keep sex outta his space opera. by the third movie, he had fisher parading around in a gold adorned bikini. is any number o' aspects o' star wars canon that exist simply 'cause o' the perception that their addition would make lucas' franchise more monetarily lucrative. yeah, lucas thinks 'bout this stuff lots, but am betting he is much more likely to consider the business ramifications than is the nerdlings who makes their own storm trooper armour and light sabre hilts. HA! Good Fun!

... 'cause when we think o' yoda, we immediate recollect roger moore as bond in octopussy... crashing the khan's palace with a menagerie o' circus side-show supermodels. maybe not. HA! Good Fun!

we felt compelled to google "tsundere." ... dorks. HA! Good Fun! Better just visit TVtropes ... anybody ever heard o' katherina minola? lord only knows how the initially adversarial female character became an anime trope. we gots our curmudgeon going on at full force... old AND dismissive. is pleasantly warm. HA! Good Fun!

you kinda get your wish. when we posted our link yesterday, we recalled seeing a familiar name on the "character" list for tor. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Satele_Shan HA! Good Fun! Cool I wonder if she has Jennifer Hale's voice utilizing the most arcane methods (we googled jennifer hale and imdb) we found your answer. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0354937/ oh, and vol is managing his once yearly feat o' being mostly correct. irenicus, for example, were more complex than most gamers suspected. parallels 'tween macbeth and irenicus were substantial. however, most gamers never recognized bioware efforts to make irenicus More than an elf wizard, mad with power. gaider and biowarians recognized that the failure to get across the intended depth were the writer, developers and voice actor fault. lack o' clarity were subjective. Gromnir saw and bio intended, but what were obvious to us were hidden from a great many people. the fact that so many people didn't see/realize the parallels were proof enough for the biowarians that they hadn't been near as clear as they had hoped. oh, and the irenicus~macbeth stuff is far more substantial than is the kreia-were-only-testing theory of oblarg's. one cannot take out a single line o' optional dialogue from bg2 and makes the macbeth stuff untenable. 'cause you know, writers love it when their characters is misunderstood, so they always hide the most important character development. *snort* HA! Good Fun!

... we thought you were kaiser souzai. if you is tim, we knows more than a couple female gamers who didn't like your explanation regarding inequality 'tween male and female characters in arcanum, and your rather undiplomatic response to their legitimate concerns. HA! Good Fun!

you kinda get your wish. when we posted our link yesterday, we recalled seeing a familiar name on the "character" list for tor. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Satele_Shan HA! Good Fun!

*chuckle* introduce you to another word... hypocrite. as has been noted numerous times 'round these parts, our writing style is a putz detector. once folks give up arguing a point and instead bemoan our style, we know the kinda folks we is dealing with. as you yourself become repetitious repeat and go circular, you complain that Gromnir is doing so... but at least we stay on-topic, no? is obie who apparently ain't interested in reasonable discourse, and am gonna suggest that retreat to such childishness is hardly exemplary rhetoric, eh? we might post like a 5-year old (HA!) but is not us who is acting like one in the present instance. oh, and clarity is as much dependent on the audience as the speaker. author must needs tailor to audience to be clear. how we speaks to a group o' attorneys 'bout the public forum doctrine is not how we would be making clear to obsidian boardies or a group o' the aforementioned 5-year old. success o' an author in being clear is very much subjective and dependent on the audience. sure, given the nature o' language it is unlikely that an author will ever achieve perfect clarity, but is hardly unreasonable to looks to a sampling o' the audience to be determining if the author were as clear as you thinks. if numerous folks in this thread, drew (the guy commissioned to write the revan book) and lucasarts all see different than obie, then the suggestion that your excerpt were as clear as you suggest is very much called into question. and the most straightforward explanation is not gonna come from an optional line o' dialogue. most straightforward is not gonna be hidden where only some might see it. "It is said that the Force has a will, it has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me. Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost. But in you