Gromnir

and yet, that is the kinda nonsense that happens so frequent. super-tank doesn't think he needs to finish a pull or aggro anything less than a gold. dps decides tank is too slow and start pulls or attack stuff that ain't been aggro'd by tank. heals uses his/her bestest aoe damage to start a pull, then wonders why she died... in spite o' the fact that the the sub-33k tank was self-healing when the pull started... or trying to ask 'bout mechanics. the only thing worse in a pug fp run than ignorant tanks who won't ask for guidance is the super- (tank/dps/heals) who seems hellbent on creating a wipe... then rage-quitting when that happens. as 'tween a group o' n00bs who will ask for and take advice, and the vet who has Serious ADD issues and thinks he is superman, we will choose to run with n00bs any day o' the week. the superman jerks is even worse if they is a pair from same guild. 2 such clowns is typically making snarky comments or yelling obscenities and frequent start a vote to kick those they perceive as inexperienced. funny thing is that the guild-clowns is the ones who is actual causing the problems. *shrug* mmo nonsense is a given. HA! Good Fun!

maybe not the bestest or our current fave, but our #1 for longest time was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z7PoVMNyfI HA! Good Fun!

We could always take a poll. I'd really guess that the folks that want cartoony big melons are going to be in the minority. You will get a decent number of don't cares, a few for the itty bitties, and a good sized group voting for nice ample C to D cup range. keep in mind that we doubt folks is complete honest 'bout such stuff, and sometimes don't even realize that the proportions they like is... monstrous. a poll might suggest that even 18-25 males prefer women that could plausibly perform athletic feats in normal earth gravity, but sales o' western superhero comics, Japanese anime, and video games o' various genres would suggest otherwise. heck, anybody recall the barbie doll protests from a few years ago? had stories and images being posted on time and cnn sites showing what life-sized barbie would looks like and how unfair that is to little girls and their ideal body image. current barbie is still "stacked," but mattel (am genuine not sure who owns barbie nowadays) did increase waist measurement a smidgen on current dolls. polls and interviews revealed that most people thought barbie proportions were over-the-top, but manufacturer concession avoided the obvious bullet-bra chest reduction option... and we is talking 'bout a doll for girls, yes? having been a jock most o' our life, we has always been 'round athletic women who rare has particular pronounced chests. perhaps that is why we appreciate athletic-builds. 'course most o' the guys we played football with over the years had preferences more along the lines o' the nerds from Weird Science. don't know what to tell you. regardless, we wouldn't trust polls or comments regarding preferences. the companies who gots millions invested in titillation may not always got their finger on the pulse o' desire, but we suspect that looking at their end-product is just as viable for diving truth as is the polls and comments from folks on a message-board. HA! Good Fun!

debate in a place like this is not about actual positive change to the industry. that being said, while some folks is clear incapable o' any kind o' personal growth, debate can result in the individual participants seeing the issue in new ways. even folks who seem incapable o' admitting that they learned something may walk away with valuable insights gleaned from the diffuse rubble o' aggressive debate. or not. as for the topic at hand, which we has been little involved with, we suspect that as graphics improve, breast size will, to a degree, shrink. in 1996, creating an appealing female character in-game were problematic. honestly go back and look at 1996 lara croft. kinda silly. sure the promotional art were a smidgen better, but to make a character demonstrably female, much less a female character that would appeal to 18-25 males, was not as ez as it sounds. so, lara becomes a wasp-waist holstein in hooters garb as much 'cause o' tech limits as anything else. even in bg games, look at the warhammer and other weapon sizes for pov. to makes a weapon look like a weapon, developers were forced to oversize, so why is people gonna get different treatment. nowadays developers has far more options to be making a character look female w/o simply exaggerating female characteristics. that being said, as we is talking 'bout females in mass-market visual media. we don't expect video game women to be any less sexualized in video games than in tv or film. sure, you can have the rare real or even homely woman character, but given how important appearance is in developing character in visual media, the fugly woman character is gonna be so for a reason. HA! Good Fun!

speaking of amusing, is you going for irony, or just being hypocritical? am guessing it is hypocrisy, but if we is wrong, we apologize in advance. HA! Good Fun!

You don't speak Volo? And I thought there was a secret club house for those with interesting mannerisms somewhere out in the aether of the internet. You've got a rationale for the description, any character that you can accurately describe with just a few words. Oh, it's subjective for sure, most things are and I've seen people who think the average Bethesda cardboard cut out is deep and well characterised- I'd likely disagree with them but I leave it to other people to decide where they personally draw the line. You brought up PST and Chris Avellone, and tried to use that to nitpick my wording when near the entirety of PST was about subverting expectations from first impressions- the chaste succubus, the evil angel, the anarchist machine etc. Caricatures never transcend their initial impression nor are anything other than cliche and stereotype- that's a FACT, a fact and indeed their definition. There is a distinction between first impression and character development for a reason. 1) any character can be described in a few words, but you is correct that it is complete subjective... so, is a FACT that you again make no point. 2) there were no nitpick of your wording... we will quote AGAIN (kinda fun) but is getting tedious. 3) once again, cause maybe this time is the charm, first impressions is one aspect o' character development. your attempt to distinguish is akin to telling us that 5, 7, 5 is not actual an attribute o' haiku. REAL haiku is 'bout balance and evocative imagery combined to achieve a transcendent whole. is NOT 5, 7, 5. *shrug* sorry, but just as you cannot develop a character without introducing that character in some manner, you cannot has haiku w/o 5, 7, 5. you wanna claim that chrisA's haiku is terrible? then argue that all that he achieved was 5, 7, 5. chrisA embraces the notion that with visual media, particularly video games, introducing the character is a far more important aspect o' character development than it may be in other media. is Gromnir's contention that chrisA relies too heavily on this belief... but that is for another thread entire. regardless, the attempt to perform some kinda gross surgical procedure and toss the bloody and cancerous mass that is the character introduction onto the operating theater floor, leaving CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT free of its diseased influence is only gonna successful occur in zor's imagination. 4) (a) we should dispense with this "first impression" nonsense as well. am seeing how zor latches onto such silliness. first of all, writers and developers INTRODUCE the character and the audience makes a firstest impression. two different players of a game may have different first impressions of same character. let us at least get correct vocab. writer is trying to create a first impression with intro material, but first impression is actual a function o' audience. (b) next, it were stated earlier that chrisA believed that the HOOK were of especial importance (primacy in point o' fact) in video game character development. chrisA also recognized that the HOOK were frequent visual in nature. that being said, there is nothing compelling the developer to makes the HOOK part of the character intro. in point o' fact, we can see wherein it would be much more powerful if the hook were revealed some time after intro. jeckel & hyde characters is probable not gonna have their HOOK revealed as part of intro-- audience impressions o' character after hook will hopefully be antagonistic with first impressions, yes? © "Ultimately though, the problem is one of Character vs Caricature. If you're dealing primarily with developing a character then the physical appearance of that character tends to be less important whether male or female."so, we is back full circle and having to deal with zor silliness. *sigh* according to chrisA, the MOST important aspect o' the character development process is the HOOK, which is frequent tied directly to appearance. this is direct antagonistic with zor quote. because we is dealing with visual media, physical appearance is necessarily impacting character development. admittedly, game developers does cheap route thing and create an obvious hook rather than embracing subtlety, but regardless, would be ignorant, and bordering asinine, to pretend that physical appearance is less important. no doubt we eventually reach point wherein physical changes to characters has as much impact in video games as they does in tv and/or film, but regardless, am thinking by now it should be painful obvious that appearance is not less important. ... maybe zor is a visual learner. you need a chart or graph or somesuch? you got so far adrift that we thinks you might just need navigation charts to get back, but that is what happens when you argue silly side-points 'stead o' actual issues. hopefully we has given you a way to steer back on course. HA! Good Fun! ps am done for awhile with the full caps bit. being crude doesn't bother us overmuch, but we not seem to be able to embrace as does zor. am getting that it can be used in lieu of having an actual point, but it won't be finding a permanent spot in our repertoire anytime soon. nevertheless, feel free to continue.

Oh please, appearance is less important in a character than in a caricature, FACT, because a character has other aspects than appearance. You don't even seem aware that you're saying the same thing I am when citing Okku. And first impression is different from overreaching character development, also FACT. It's an aspect of it, but of course when it comes to caricature there's nothing else but that first impression as that's what a caricature is, hence the distinction. So, you now know the difference between a character and a caricature as well as the difference between Richter and Mercalli. keep saying "fact" (capitalized and in caps? you is just so darn cute when you is being ridiculous) doesnt make things facts... or relevant. main difference 'tween a character and a caricature in crpg (or any video game for that matter) is conceit. if a person thinks dogmeat or dove don't rise to the level of your vaunted and imprecise threshold of "character," then they is relegated to caricature? *snort* Gromnir uses the caricature nomenclature our-self, from time to time. is little more than an insult, and a meaningless insult if we fail to supply a rationale for the disparagement. oh, and is a FACT (we get that right?) that you is being obtuse... or silly... again. first impression is a very important aspect of character development, particularly in visual media. your continued attempts to isolate and distinguish those initial impressions the audience has of a character does not lessen their inclusion and importance to overreaching character development. HA! Good Fun!

which is why we brought up the bear from motb. regardless, zor being dismissive of the role of appearance in character development of a crpg character is what prompted our response. while we hardly go as far as does chrisA insofar as the primacy o the hook (especial the visual hook,) we does at least recognize its importance. games is not the best medium for developing characters through dialogue, and rare is the developer/writer who actually has their characters achieve growth through actions, so appearance becomes increasing important... not less. HA! Good Fun!

"Ultimately though, the problem is one of Character vs Caricature. If you're dealing primarily with developing a character then the physical appearance of that character tends to be less important whether male or female. " in case you already forgot what you said. meant something a bit less expansive? fine. clarification would be to your benefit. that being said, is funny that you would wanna try to distinguish "first impression" from overreaching character development. is kinda... cute. *shrug* "It was also made in terms of video games being a visual medium so art design issues being important." you mischaracterize, but you are correct that video games is visual media. perhaps you should try to keep that in mind. HA! Good Fun!

chrisA would disagree with you. he has mentioned in a couple blogs and presentations at game conferences that a character "hook" is mostest important, and that the hook is most frequent visual. take motb characters as an example. kaelyn and okku is as much a product o' visual as they is of dialogue... dove, in particular, tends towards tedious exposition. her character and appeal is as much a part of visuals as cumbersome dialogue. no doubt chrisA learned hard lessons from ps:t. frequent criticism o' the nameless one from ps:t were his unpleasant appearance, whereas fall-from-grace, who had little quality character development, is lauded by folks on these boards. another classic example o' hook o'r substance: dogmeat from fo. its a freaking dog for chrissakes. chrisA mentions that is common that the concept artist creates the hook, the Visual hook, that defines the character. am thinking chrisA learned some bad lessons from ps:t and other games, but he, at the very least, heartily disagrees with you. HA! Good Fun! ps tolkien thought the mostest important aspect o' character development were the name o' the character.

"The issue isn't even about attractiveness. The new Lara Croft is still a very attractive woman. She just isn't absurdly and inhumanly proportioned like she was in many of the early PSX games." absurdly stoopid. compare new lara croft to old psx? HA! graphic capabilities of psx for rendering a sexual appealing female that were other than a static image were limited in mid 1990s. imagine telling a game developer circa 1995-1996 to create a "hawt" female avatar, playable in an action-adventure game, that had realistic/reasonable proportions. as we didnt bother reading alan post past this point, am not sure if he said anything of merit, but this nonsense pretty much shut door on alan for us. *chuckle* folks is frequent most amusing when they is trying to be serious. seriously. HA! Good Fun!

we would prefer 1860 pre-civil war as most o' the conflicts exist w/o any o' the resolutions. that being said, US anywhere/anywhen 'tween 1840 and 1870 would makes us happy with the setting. HA! Good Fun!

"And Wild West or Weird West would be cool" we has asked for similar in the past. but is no need to limit to the west... or even the traditional late 1800s "wild west" period. in retrospect, am actual preferring the mid 1800s US. underground railroad. us-mexican war. pony express. plains indians wars. civil war. california gold rush. utah war. transcontinental railroad. etc. a relative brief period from 1840-1870 offers extreme rich options for a setting in what is now the continental US. throw in magic and/or steampunk... maybe alter history a bit, and you gots limitless possibilities. HA! Good Fun!

dm/gm is not limited to rolls to determine outcome of encounters... is why we said "rolls or encounters." and dumping back in the lap o' the players is equal foolhardy. HA! Good Fun!

roll is ridiculous and adds nothing. that being said, if dm/gm is ok with roll, it is no biggie. after all, is the guy running the game sessions that is gonna be working harder if some folks is under-or-over-powered. in pnp it is not too hard for a dm/gm to put finger on scales where and when needed, but in our experience, it is the folks who wanted stoopid roll stats that is first to complain if they thinks gamemaster ain't being honest with rolls or encounters. HA! Good Fun!

nope, but if you don't add the "roofles," people will miss the joke that you is mocking vol... they will think that the idiocy in your posts is the result o' stoopidity as 'posed to parody. HA! Good Fun!

Whereas posting everything in unreadable affected English isn't. see, this is where we always gets confused-- being "ironic" and "butt-hurt" shouldn't be difficult to distinguish, yes? oh, and is you trying to one-up vol in the category o' Poster-Most-Likely Inspire-WTF? this message board wherein you post your intended pith IS a "fora such as this." duh. doesn't vol finish post with "lolz" or "roofles"? if you don't get details right, people won't get the joke and they will assume that you is an idiot. HA! Good Fun!

... am not seeing the confusion. random stat progression is hardly Less bad 'cause it occurs at genesis. in point of fact, randomized stats at creation is typically a greater problem than level-up randomized as in most systems more points is potentially distributed at genesis than at any other single leveling opportunity. HA! Good Fun!

random stat progression is an idiotic game mechanic... regardless o' the game. am not even gonna touch the "realistic" = good implication. HA! Good Fun!

the big bot's damage resistance and cluster bombing is making them annoying opponents. nevertheless, a single alloy cannon wielding assault soldier with both an arc thrower and combat stims can kill those suckers in 2 rounds. arc thrower with drone capture makes easier as the bot will fire on captured drones first. the combat stims halve your received damage and the assault's lightning reflexes negates 1 attack... assuming you have lightning reflexes... and why wouldn't you? if you dont capture a drone, you will still stay alive long enough to kill the big bot thanks to assault class abilities and the stim. alternatively, a tier 3 mec with the electropulse ability makes short work o' any kinda bots. HA! Good Fun! I must be setting up my soldiers badly, because I can never utilize the close range abilities of my MECs. The enemy is usually in overwatch, so if I try to move them during my turn, they get shot to hell. don't let 'em get into overwatch, or use assault. there is an understandable urge to move troops forward, but with sectopod we typical goes backwards. if any party member gots suppression or disabling shot, such abilities is big win v. sectopod, but regardless, get the bot to move to you and prevent overwatch planting. mecs can move further than any unit save for support with skeleton suit, so use your mobility. alternatively, make sure you got 1 assault soldier with the aforementioned combat stim. an assault in titan armour with a combat stim will absorb the overwatch so your mec's can move in and disable. that being said, trying to capture meld does interfere with good tactics. is ez to overextend or move forward into bad situations. meld has frequent made Gromnir do stoopid. HA! Good Fun!

the big bot's damage resistance and cluster bombing is making them annoying opponents. nevertheless, a single alloy cannon wielding assault soldier with both an arc thrower and combat stims can kill those suckers in 2 rounds. arc thrower with drone capture makes easier as the bot will fire on captured drones first. the combat stims halve your received damage and the assault's lightning reflexes negates 1 attack... assuming you have lightning reflexes... and why wouldn't you? if you dont capture a drone, you will still stay alive long enough to kill the big bot thanks to assault class abilities and the stim. alternatively, a tier 3 mec with the electropulse ability makes short work o' any kinda bots. HA! Good Fun!

am thinking that the developer's less than profound divulgement were more appropriate to a blog entry or a long-winded post on a fora such as this. to makes an entire pc game wherein the player is 'posed to share in the Epiphany/joke strikes Gromnir as, at best, self-indulgent. HA! Good Fun!

MC's Very Special Olympics HA! Good Fun!

yeah, as we noted above, fot gambling were busted... particularly before the patch. betehesda got gambling right by dropping it. too bad they made it so you could approach maxing all skills in a single playthrough. oh well, the developer giveth and the developer taketh away. regardless, this is a wasteland 2 thread. to get back on-track we will note that like spider, we would be looking forward to something along the lines o' fot... but w/o all the horrible fallout baggage that fot gave us. HA! Good Fun!

what on earth is you talking about? what did we mention first? that fot biggest shortcoming as a squad-based tactical combat game were that it were a fallout game, with all the combat shortcomings that were legacies of the fallout franchise? but it would be strange/hypocritical for you to argue that nma and codex raged that fot wasn't fallout enough, then identify ubiquitous fallout flaws as fot shortcomings. yeah, Gromnir already identified that there were an obsolescence o' weapon skills... although we did mention it were less o' an issue than previous fo games. after all, the best ranged weapon in the game (gaus rifle) were small guns. the cattle prod and ripper, coupled with right perks, were making melee viable throughout the game. so, o' the 19 fot skills, identify the 9 that were "useless." depending on which patch version we is speaking of, the only skill we would identify as arguably useless were pilot skill. and your memory is bad. the most useful skills in tactics were small guns, big guns or unarmed... is a good argument for any o' the three. weren't enough gauss ammo for everybody in a squad, but small guns were best early AND late in game. emp shells for the pancor also were keeping small guns useful throughout, but again, there were limited anti-robot ammo. big guns started out a bit slow, but saws and brownings were not rare, and browning were effective throughout entire game. as with fo games previous to fo3, energy weapons were not a particular useful skill for between 1/2 and 2/3 of game... makes it a bad call for best skill. as for other skills, they were all useful... too useful at times. is no skill we would call useless, and our squads invariably were build so that all skills were maxed. regardless, this is getting silly... is why we rare deal with codex or nma anymore. HA! Good Fun!