Gromnir

and such is the reason Gromnir suggests finding out from obsidian just how much input you can have. you are coming up with plans before knowing what you can actual do. HA! Good Fun!

Hey, I thought you were against logical fallacies And if I am not mistaken this one looks like a reverse ad hominem (i.e. praising the defence instead of attacking the opposition). wasn't actual making an argument per se, so the fallacies don't really fit, eh? logic is a rather limited tool. in any event, you misapprehend our comment or the fallacy as we were not making the suggestion that the argument were stronger 'cause o' the qualities o' those defending. "you should listen to bob 'cause he is a fine churchgoing man." suggestion that acceptance o' a position would be enlightened is not actual the fallacy you describe. you kinda have reversed. but again, weren't logic from the start. but as emoticon suggests tongue were at least partial in cheek... HA! Good Fun!

When I worked specifically with remediation at a college that had open admissions, ~60% of the incoming class were remedial and had been for at least 20-30 years. However all that time spent working with remedial students (and indeed being a part of organizations tied to remediation) taught me that this isn't a new problem. The part that's new(ish) is that the colleges themselves are being forced to handle the remediation (to some degree) rather than requiring the student complete a prep school after graduation from HS but before matriculation into the college which was more the norm back in the 1700s-1800s. am understanding your pov as you say you work for an open-enrollment system, yes? but CSU? is only 9% of graduating seniors who is guaranteed spots at UC, and they had to open UC merced to keep close to being able to match that goal. CSU has therefore necessarily been taking a higher performing group o' students. use csu chico as random. would be unfair to use cal poly. http://www.csuchico.edu/admissions/want-to-apply/freshmen/eligibility.shtml http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1083 average freshman were getting b/b+ in high school coursework which is seeming near required to be college prep. nevertheless, the kids is unprepared. this is not a case o' returning adults who ain't been to school in years or folks deciding 'tween working as a security guard or going to a community college as amentep is likely to see frequent. am thinking educators writing this off as a kinda business as usual fail is as disturbing as is the numbers. "Sonja Brookins Santelises, chief executive officer of Baltimore City Public Schools, is well aware of the gap between the knowledge needed to earn a diploma in the district and what college professors expect students to be able to do on day one. She served as chief academic officer for the district before going to the D.C.-based think tank Education Trust in 2013, where she studied this issue nationally. She returned to the Baltimore school district in the summer of 2016. "It’s “more like a chasm,” she said. “We’ve had too low a standard for too long.” "The district is working to increase dual-enrollment opportunities, through which high school students can enroll in college courses, as well as increase general exposure to higher education, Santelises said. It’s also trying to equip schools with the tools to deal with trauma in students’ lives and to better support teachers in raising standards to challenge students more in high school. "“If we’ve been giving kids worksheets with simplistic answers for years and then get upset when they can’t write a five-paragraph essay or recognize subject-verb agreement, that’s not the kids,” she said. “That’s us.”" am glad some folks in education recognize a problem. HA! Good Fun!

am doubting the tier for creating a pirate ship allows as much contributor input as some folks believe. is unlikely you is gonna work with obsidian as a co-designer to create every aspect o' the ship from keel to crow's nest. "some restrictions apply" is, we suspect, more expansive than folks believe. perhaps ask 'bout input before making grand plans. HA! Good Fun!

we purposeful leave out signature for particular unfunny posts. HA! Good Fun!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/colleges-enroll-students-arent-prepared-higher-education/ "But even four-year schools, which are more likely to have some admissions criteria, were not immune. In the California State University system, which admitted about 72 percent of first-time freshman applicants in 2014, more than 40 percent of incoming freshman were deemed not ready for college-level work in at least one subject. Nearly a quarter of incoming students at Colorado’s and Montana’s four-year schools were placed in remedial courses and about 30 percent were in Arkansas." our public schools is failing our kids.

utter nonsense. "immersion," whatever the heck it might be, is highly personal and the threshold o' violation is clear so variable as to defy any kinda rules. peter of the north and and alora's ren and stimpy homage didn't destroy the fragile balance o' immersion for most players in bg1 and the optional clicky memorials in poe1, while seeming a crime 'gainst humanity for a few, were largely ignored by most. for chrissakes, peter north handling subterranean wood? HA! name the friggin pirate ship enterprise and give all crew members star trek identities? would get a momentary chuckle outta Gromnir. would enrage a few. would hardly destroy the game. sure, our preference is for something more original than derivative, so predictable pirates of the caribbean stuff would not be our choice, but if somebody managed to sneak in an ice pirates reference, we wouldn't object. let folks, as a group, decide what is kewl, but shrinking violets over concerned 'bout immersion is gonna get little more than an eye roll worth o' consideration from Gromnir. HA! Good Fun! ps

release state o' poe is perhaps not best measure o' anything save for as a warning to developers regarding the scope o' the beta. focus were indeed difficult for the developers to get right, and a few powers were comical op. tanks were functional invulnerable at mid-high levels. rogues were solo killing adra dragons in under 15 seconds with little more than petrification traps and a pointy stick. etc. developers should not necessarily make more content available in the poe2 beta, but am thinking more complete access to the full range o' levels, talents and abilities would be wise. create a silly arena thing if need be, but am thinking the community does a fair job o' breaking what can be broken. break during the betta instead o' at release. but again, the fact o' the matter is the dedicated vancian spellcasters in poe suffered the same power curve problems they had in d&d and the ie games. reasons seem obvious to Gromnir. unshackle us from per-rest and limit the spell catalogs a bit. HA! Good Fun!

am thinking far more o' the dedicated builders people would consider poe wizards to be op than ciphers. honest. ciphers have an advantage early in the game precisely 'cause wizards (and priests and druids) suffer the same power curve problems as were evident in d&d. the fact that ciphers very quick lose their edge as wizards and priests level is illustrative o' the problem. HA! Good Fun!

am not seeing a need for per-rest. if it were up to Gromnir, we would keep a few per-rest abilities as resting is kinda an integral component for healing anyway, but as already noted, early in poe development it appeared as if obsidian were gonna exorcise vancian spellcasting. were a nostalgia bone for the d&d/ie folks. even obsidian didn't seem to see it as being fundamental to the ie experience. but again, we don't expect and end to per-rest. poe2 is being sold to the folks who purchased and liked poe1. is per-rest broken? perhaps. a little. nevertheless, am doubting obsidian changes a mechanic which were liked and disliked seeming equal. am doubting too many poe2 funders is having per-rest be the deciding factor in their purchase. so why change? HA! Good Fun! ps am not certain this needs be said, but we would replace with per-encounter abilities as numerous poe classes already utilize.

scales terrible. for spell casters, per-rest is a major concern at low levels and a non factor at mid-high levels. is not well designed. there is good reasons it has become anachronistic. doesn't make much sense to use per-rest save for the fact the ie games used. HA! Good Fun!

hey, what 'bout apologies. HA! Good Fun!

poe developers implied such were their goal. board did not react favorable. but perhaps poe2 backers is more enlightened or adventurous than were poe1 folks. HA! Good Fun! Not to be argumentative, but cooldowns are adventurous and enlightened? It's not like we haven't had a plethora of games in the past 10 years using them. Dragon Age, Tyranny, almost every MMO, etc. It's not some new frontier of RPG mechanics. Both systems have pros and cons. I'd like there to be some games that DON'T use cool down mechanics. Variety being the spice of life. variety is only a good thing so long as you like the options, yes? and while it may no longer be adventurous to deviate from the vancian inspired d&d models, we would posit it is indeed enlightened. more aware developers is precisely why so few games rely 'pon per rest nowadays. ah well. while we would prefer to give the corpse o' d&d per rest spell casters the viking funeral they deserve (eaten by ravens and crabs as their bloated cadavers bob in brackish tidepools as 'posed to the flamey longboat ceremony,) we suspect there will be little motivation to change. obsidian is trying to sell poe2 to folks who liked poe1. fundamental changes don't make too much sense save as to correct clear broken mechanics or 'cause everybody hated in poe1. per rest ain't broken, just sucky. HA! Good Fun!

poe developers implied such were their goal. board did not react favorable. but perhaps poe2 backers is more enlightened or adventurous than were poe1 folks. HA! Good Fun!

serious. can a mod combine these and/or pin? within a month there is gonna be a dozen o' these. HA! Good Fun!

ps we had some experience as a writer, in a previous life. different than most other folks, Gromnir crafted detailed outlines before sitting down to do any genuine writing. the thing is, if the writing were going well, the story would begin to write itself. ideally, we were dictating. characters were telling the story and we were simple trying to keep up with'em. our initial outlines were invaluable to get us in the right frame o' mind to write, but they didn't limit us. most other writers we know is far less likely to develop the kinda detailed outlines we needed, but the sensation o' good writing being a transcendental condition whereby the story is experienced by the writer as 'posed to crafted by him/her is kinda common. am thinking most folks is gonna recognize how writing for a crpg is gonna be different than Gromnir experience. once the Team develops a story and setting and locations and quests, how much freedom does the crpg writer actual have? programmer and art resources and whatnot is unlikely to be altered based on one o' the many writers realizing the story had taken him someplace different than he expected. whatever outlines one gots at start is gonna need be adhered to with few chances for growth. there is gonna be a plan and a goal and teamwork and is not gonna be much like other kinda writing at all. different. much different. HA! Good Fun!

one aside: poe2 is a game. is seeming obvious but overlooked. crpg storytelling in a game is gonna be different than novels or movies or graphic novels. ideally, the crpg is gonna be reactive in ways other media is not and the technical demands for telling a crpg story is far different than is faced by the author with a pencil and a blank sheet o' paper. demands on the crpg storyteller is gonna be arguable greater, but limitations will necessarily result in a more narrowed focus. poe companions, for example, received a fair 'mount o' potential text, but consider the actual number o' times and the ways in which character quests were advanced in-game. writer gots a half-dozen or so encounters to complete an entire companion story arc? and each companion story arc will be, with some variation, largely insular. heck, in a novel or movie, the author knows with certainty the cast o' characters. in a crpg such as poe, is possible the watcher will play solo. heck, perhaps the watcher will only have aloth and hiravias in party. imagine how much different a novel o' poe would be written simple by changing the companions o' the watcher. a crpg is, by no means, an ideal medium with which to tell a compelling and coherent story. 'course as the player is actual a character in the story, there is advantages. more emotional invested at the outset, yes? point is, people often ignore the limitations o' a crpg insofar as storytelling is concerned. use other medium as examples is not bad, but is rare gonna be complete analogous. have mentioned on these boards before how we actual have a favorite paragraph from literature. memorized. "a few light taps upon the pane made him turn to the window. it had begun to snow again. he watched sleepily the flakes, silver and dark, falling obliquely against the lamplight. the time had come for him to set out on his journey westward. yes, the newspapers were right: snow was general all over Ireland. it was falling on every part of the dark central plain, on the treeless hills, falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, farther westward, softly falling into the dark mutinous Shannon waves. it was falling, too, upon every part of the lonely churchyard on the hill where Michael Furey lay buried. it lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and headstones, on the spears of the little gate, on the barren thorns. his soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead." beautiful prose, but where is you gonna put such in a game such as poe2? perhaps a bit o' narration? is bunch o' writers working on poe2 and even if one ' them were a james joyce in disguise, am doubting such writing would have impact if the other contributing writers had a complete different prose style and tone. making a crpg story is more complex than is writing a novel or even than making a movie. is collaborative. is bounded by technical considerations. is requiring subversion to needs o' gameplay. is... different. is our opinion that the storytelling goals in a crpg must be more straightforward than in other media. not need be any less profound, but the elegance and depth possible in other media is gonna be acheived different in a game. keep focused so a collaborative team o' writers and artists and level designers might all work together to achieve the same goal. in a game, compelling theme or character is gonna be acheived by depth rather than breadth. different. HA! Good Fun!

The point with Durance and GM, however, was that they didn't contextualise present events in most of their dialogue. They suffered much, I think, from the fact that their personal quest was exploring their past through dialogue. Now, in theory that's not eintirely a bad thing, am disagreeing a bit. where the lore from durance and gm were largely incidental to the exploration o' their personal quest, we had no complaint. exploring the past o' a character being required to advance a companion quest were not, in our estimation, problematic. as amentep observes, the demands o' the narrative is gonna alter the degree to which such background info is necessary and vital. explore nature o' hollowborn were necessary for us to appreciate the choices gm made, yes? am gonna note that regardless o' fact the narrative makes it plausible to have deep (and tedious) explorations o' a companion's past through dialogue, it don't mean a writer must needs utilize such an option. we still prefer show, don't tell. use events and encounters as 'posed to dialogue chains to explore past would be best even if it is taking more effort. use companions as a way to provide lore beyond what is emotional evocative is gonna be resulting in a severe diminished return on writer investment. the dialogue-focused lore exposition should be kept to a minimum. if a dialogue don't contribute to emotional impact o' character's story, then consider cutting it. HA! Good Fun!

redemption as the thematic focus sounds like a viable and laudable option for the poe2 story. faith were at the core o' poe, and redemption is gonna be new enough so as not to be repetitive. at same time, redemption is close tied to faith so writers can build 'pon previous game rather than simple abandoning thematic threads from the first title. 'course we got no idea what obsidian is actual gonna do, so... HA! Good Fun!

am admitted more likely to use ravel and kreia as examples, but no doubt we can work some ap references into the mix. am sad to say we ain't played tyranny yet, so am gonna be complete lost with any reference to obsidian's most recent rpg title. we almost always wait six months before purchasing a new title. crowdfunding projects being notable exceptions. HA! Good Fun!

"the joinable companions should be the focus o' developing the story o' a crpg. the companions can grow, and player choices can change the ways in which they grow, but the motivations and personality o' the joinables is not so dynamic as to hinder quality writing. the essential qualities o' the companions (and major npcs such as the game's Ultimate Bad Guy) is known qualities that a writer can use as a foundation for story development. I would suggest that this can be detrimental to the narrative, if implemented wrong. While I agree that joinables need to have crisis points and visible growth, I think Dragon Age Inquisition proved how fixating on companions can lead to a weaker story. Inquisition has great companions, and bioware spent a load of time building their importance to the PC, and there are many great moments where you feel connected to the companions: Dorian's meeting with his father, when all your companions get drunk together in the tavern... however, the overall story of Inquisition is weak, and it lacks any of the great moments that really made Dragon Age Origins so wonderful. I may have written this already but: In Origins, I chose whether or not to father a child infused with the power of an old god, whether to defile the ashes of the messiah character (Andraste), whether I would free the tormented soul of some dwarf trapped in a golem body, and whether or not to have sex with a desire demon inside the mind of a possessed child. in Inquisition, I think there was pool that maybe I could corrupt? point is- it seems like all the thought went into creating this vivid companions, which resulted in a fairly bland fantasy plot, that relied on a recycled villain, and an antagonistic force that was essentially just the blight by a different name. while it's clear the companions need to function differently from POE, granting them more agency along the prime narrative, and also presenting your character with contrasting and affirming view points, it can't come at the expense of the story. At least, that's what I think Also, agree that Kreia was an excellent character, often overlooked is indeed a potential problem that in the absence o' a compelling protagonist, joinables could overwhelm and distract. 'course the problem you describe would seem to be a recognition o' the failure to develop an da:i Adversary rather than an issue with the companions. adversary doesn't need be a person or monster, but will almost always be so in a crpg as one typical needs be given the opportunity to fight the UBG. got a game wherein combat is vital from start to finish and then not have a way to resolve conflict with combat will be disappointing to many. develop companions who all contribute to core theme also helps avoid the distraction o' companions in the absence o' a compelling protagonist. all the poe companions contributed to thematic development o' faith. haven't played da:i so we cannot say if all da:i companions were working to advance a single theme, or they were simple telling their own and largely insular tales. again, Gromnir is specific speaking o' using the companions to tell the critical path story rather than the often mistaken crpg design o' having the companion stories be insular and tangential. regardless, make sure the Adversary is developed and use companions to reinforce core themes. should avoid the issues you raise. HA! Good Fun!

A quick look in the mirror wouldn't harm, mate. I certainly didn't start to make snarky comment without any meat to it. And calling other people childish doesn't make yourself more mature, just saying... again, making personal w/o contributing. you are gonna get the thread pruned. you can be snarky on this board, but tell people to "shut up and get lost," will, at the very least, inspire pruning. take advice or not. but to stay on-topic, with a five member party for poe2, am thinking seven joinables is actual stretching the developers a bit, though being able to use three poe companions might be helpful. the returning characters is not blank slates about whom the player knows nothing. if the developers don't feel compelled to retread background o' the returning three, some effort might be saved. HA! Good Fun!

now that kinda childish petulance is likely to get a thread locked. try and be a bit more mature. and pointing out your peculiar fixation with false dichotomy is a meaningful contribution. you will be more convincing if you don't make blanket generalizations and offer false choices. specific on-topic contributions? *shrug* number o' companions should be smaller. games which obsidian/black isle has created with smaller number o' companions is the ones best received by the fanbase. ps:t and motb were much loved by fans. nwn 2 had 14-15 companions and kotor 2 had 11-12 companions. personally, we thought kreia were fantastic, but she were kinda a unique companion for kotor 2 as she were also the UBG (ultimate bad guy). http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66240-the-8-companions/?p=1452916 history shows obsidian has created more depth o' character with fewer joinables. as for chrisA observations 'bout the codex write up, am gonna take anything chrisA says 'bout poe as being suspect. our recollection is chrisA's agreement with the codexian article were limited to posting o' word counts, but nevertheless, chrisA has said multiple times he were only involved with durance and grieving mother during initial design concept stages. complaints 'bout poe writing from chrisA dramatic increased as soon as he quit obsidian, and such criticisms o' obsidian in general has become increasing puerile and self serving since. am actual in agreement 'bout excess o' lore exposition from joinables http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91189-to-soon-for-wishlist/?p=1875726 "have mentioned before every obsidian or bio game since 1999, but we needs repeat our position regarding the value o' joinable characters. poe took a halting step forward by using all companions to advance core theme. each poe companion had a kinda crisis o' faith if you will. unfortunate, much o' the companion dialogue were wasted on lore dump. what a waste. joinables, unlike the protagonist, is largely static characters. far more o' obsidian's storytelling should take place by means o' joinable companions. have players constant digging through and repeating lore exposition in hopes o' advancing the companion influence minigame is not good gameplay and hurts storytelling. use the companions. don't waste companions on excessive lore exposition." even so, http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76919-least-liked-companions/?p=1707821 "much o' Gromnir's complaints 'bout setting exposition from the companions is unfair but genuine nevertheless. you gotta ask kana or sagani 'bout their homeland and culture to get that info-- is all optional. developers have durance give us all kinda details o' saint's war, but am admitting we were less annoyed by his exposition 'cause the info were given more natural than did sagani or kana. grieving mother also had info-dumpitis but it were much more limited to the hollowborn. "part o' the problem with the setting exposition from the joinables is that even though such stuff is optional, we don't necessarily know which bits is genuine and true optional. gotta dig through all dialogue options regardless to make certain we didn't miss an important quest trigger. may sound like a silly meta-game solution, but if the developers were more clear 'bout which companion dialogue options were pure setting exposition, we could then feel as if skipping such, or at least delaying, were not hampering companion quest advancement. make us feel that delaying is not hampering companion quest advancement would actual go far in mitigating the impression that companions is in auto-exposition mode. "regardless, we gotta admit that is not as if the companions is forcing 'pon us ridiculous details 'bout how the coriolis effect is real in the poe world. we gotta ask for such details 'fore they give. however, given the gameplay aspect o' companion quests, we never feel as if companion dialogues is functional optional. our complaints is thus unfair, but genuine." the companions is ideal placed to provide lore, and we doubt obsidian will complete stop. be that as it may, we would prefer a show-don't-tell approach whenever possible. where possible, use encounters to show us behaviors and motivations o' factions and people. excessive use of companions for lore dumps diminishes their impact as the weary drone o' historical facts is rare emotional evocative. is not an either/or scenario as suggested by lc. even so, use companions to make the player feel something, and less to educate. also, am believing obsidian is using joinable wrong, but they are headed in the correct direction http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84987-eric-fenstermaker-narrative-interview-at-rpg-codex/?p=1784542 "on a side note, am wishing that developers would have the following epiphany much earlier: ""The bigger thing we did to help develop an emotional core to the story, which I felt was more successful, was in working the themes into the designs of the companion arcs and quests. The degree of success varied from character to character, but when I did a full play-through of the game late in development, I found myself enjoying the game's story most when I was seeing the deeper layers of these characters exposed, and their worldviews challenged. Sagani's finale might be my favorite - I found that scene to be very moving." (eric fenstermaker) "the protagonist o' a crpg is a terrible focus for a story. the more control you give the player over his own character, the more difficult you make it to tell the crpg protagonist story. try and write a compelling and evocative story in which the main character is male or female and race is unfixed. the protagonist o' the hypothetical story can be good or bad or serious or snarky and he/she has the capacity to change aspects o' character in different parts o' the story? who the heck is Gromnir writing 'bout? the protagonist is too vague to be the foundation o' a decent crpg story. "the joinable companions should be the focus o' developing the story o' a crpg. the companions can grow, and player choices can change the ways in which they grow, but the motivations and personality o' the joinables is not so dynamic as to hinder quality writing. the essential qualities o' the companions (and major npcs such as the game's Ultimate Bad Guy) is known qualities that a writer can use as a foundation for story development. http://forums.obsidi...ions/?p=1705421 "eventual the developers o' crpgs is gonna realize that the protagonist is ill-suited to driving crpg story." and also from our recent wishlist "lore and mechanics tinkering is swell and all, but it is all for naught if the developers fail to give the player a reason to care 'bout what is happening. am knowing at least a few (one) of the obsidians is kinda preoccupied with lore and details. we got no doubt the factions o' poe2 will be having deep and comprehensive histories and Gromnir will have many chances to explore historical details. *groan* those details matter more to the writer/developer than to the reader/player. it's the writer who most needs know why an npc hates slavery and yet continues to work for a business concern involved in slave trade. the player can go almost the entire story w/o knowing motivations, and even when providing explanations, an involved historical treatise will not improve. personal, Gromnir is not a big fan o' tolkien, but most o' you folks is. think back and consider all the characters in lotr for whom you had little to no historical background and only the foggiest notion 'bout the details o' their motivations. give the player long-winded history o' factions for purpose o' Explanation is bad writing. if you need read the silmarillion to appreciate lotr, then you got bad writing. show, don't tell. use events and encounters to show faction behaviors, but is far more important to get players to care than to understand historical minutiae. if the player cares 'bout a character, then they is gonna wanna know more 'bout the character. don't work bassackwards and try to get players to care 'cause you, the developer, has provided (what you believe to be) compelling history." joinable companions are ideal suited to telling a crpg story. the companions, unlike the protagonist, has fixed histories and backgrounds and motivations. developers should rely more heavily 'pon companions to tell the story o' poe2. however, they should not try and add to the rogues gallery o' characters. takes much effort to create a handful o' diverse characters all o' whom live and breathe and reinforce thematic direction o' the critical path story. create more companions is gonna necessarily diminish the 'mount o' depth one might add to such characters. as Gromnir and others has observed, crpg is a zero sum game. you seem to recognize this point yourself, but you forget its import. we also discussed a desire for greater reactivity in our wishlist and elsewhere. etc. well tilled soil. need more focus or we get rambling posts such as yours and Gromnir's... made worse by clumsy and inarticulate reply/quote responses. am suggesting to not use reply/quote or we begin to see responses to part o' posts rather than posts as a whole. oh, and to maxQ, we brought up false dichotomy as lc used it in the romance thread as well. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91279-romance/?p=1877745 would be best to break a bad habit. HA! Good Fun! ps (edit) messed up a link

Personally the second. what is it with lord c and false dichotomy? HA! Good Fun!

bump more party size insights, observations 'bout helmet/cloak toggle, multiplayer, etc. get all your poe2 updates... from sa. HA! Good Fun!