Gromnir

ah. shoulda' guessed. well, we will leave, but only after observing how illegals do pay taxes https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/ http://www.businessinsider.com/how-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes-2012-3 http://www.newsweek.com/2015/10/23/myths-half-truths-about-immigration-reform-382855.html and likely will never draw social security benefits they has paid billions (more than a trillion) towards. however, education and medical costs is issues... but not necessarily how folks think. illegals don't get fed medical benefits as some s'pose, but they still have medical problems. illegals, much like our indigent population, typical use emergency room medical. by the time an illegal gets desperate enough to seek the medical help they need, is usual serious and emergency rooms is necessarily expensive regardless. billions. education is also a tough issue and worthy o' debate... but again, this ain't a simple issue. trump talking on sixty minutes 'bout ramping up deportations from obama levels (approx 400,000 per year) so as to get rid o' 2-3 million reveals a lack o' foresight. HA! Good Fun! ps worth reading the forbes article too http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2017/01/28/why-president-trumps-border-wall-is-an-example-of-bad-leadership/#6aafc49a78fd

obama, the guy who significant increased deportations compared to previous administrations, is the guy who constrained ice and the border patrol? the guy who in spite o' 8 years worth o' steady decrease in illegals coming into the US, nevertheless managed to deport more than 2,400,000 is the President who limited such efforts? okie dokie. HA! Good Fun!

kinda missing the point. when Congress makes a law, there is a process in place. the process results in studies conducted and solutions to anticipated problems being formulated. as bass ackwards as Congress can be, they at least must needs consider the implications o' their actions before they vote and send for President's signature. sure, sometimes they leave more than a few details vague, seeming anticipating the courts and executive will fill in the gaps, but at least Congress is aware o' what they is (or is not) doing. am not suggesting illegal deportations is a job for Congress. am contrasting how Congress goes 'bout similar decisions as we has seen from the new chief executive. trump has access to folks who are able to study any number o' esoteric subjects and formulate plans and solutions, but as with his sweden crime flub, he ignores the considerable resources available to him and simple authors doomed or idiotic actions. as a President, it is the height o' foolishness to simple act and then come up with how to make immigration or travel bans or walls work after the fact. the Presidency does not seem to be what trump believes the office to be. HA! Good Fun!

No kidding. I posted a few pages ago a woman right here is Tennessee is facing six months in jail and fines for giving horses massage therapy for free because she isn't a veterinarian. But an illegal immigrant can work in the stable the horse lives in, pay no taxes and that's all ok? Personally I think it's all ridiculous but it's so much worse when the government chooses to hammer some folks but ignore others. I'd say leave everyone alone but failing that how about some consistency. am actual in favor o' reforming undocumented alien policies. 'course the problem isn't simple the executive's desire to make changes. once again, the President appears to have an unclear notion o' the powers o' the presidency. just 'cause a piece o' paper is signed, it don't warp reality. woulda' thought the appeals court taught him a lesson. Congress has apparatus which allows for careful and meaningful deliberation o' problems and it also, in theory, has means o' considering options and solutions to problems. well, at least Congress once had such, but they has kinda voluntarily stepped away from their responsibilities. am not certain what it is the President is doing with these grand actions which ignore any sorta consideration o' implementation or actual impact. perhaps trump saw a documentary on fox regarding illegals? so many illegals. bad. ok, that is kinda a starting point, but where is the actual plan? leave vague and all you do is guarantee that the courts is gonna smack you 'round, again. HA! Good Fun!

and the fact that nobody is safe is precisely why there will be a chilling effect on housing sales. the fact o' nobody being safe is also why bloomberg and aclu and others is predicting considerable and costly lawsuits as leaving so open is necessarily placing greater pressure on all those new ice agents to meet legal standards which only immigration lawyers and federal judges genuine understand fully. etc. again, similar to the travel ban (but moreso,) this is not a well-considered move. the President wants to make a show o' doing something significant, but he is going 'bout it complete wrong and it is gonna be an expensive mistake. HA! Good Fun!

is myopic 'cause there is no infrastructure to handle what is effective a mass deportation. don't have facilities to house. don't have any agreement from mexico and other nations 'bout their willingness to accept deportees. don't have anywhere near the court resources to handle deportation hearings. nor is there any plan for dealing with the economic burdens large number o' deportations will be causing in many industries. is not simple construction jobs being unfilled, but actual the housing market itself is likely to suffer as a goodly number o' undocumented and documented workers is gonna stop purchasing homes. and trump already suggested millions. watch the video referencing job market specific if you can't be bothered to read. HA! Good Fun!

another myopic move by the administration https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-02-22/trump-s-immigration-crackdown-likely-to-bring-lawsuit-flood going big and doing things smart is rare the same. edit: bloomberg has a couple more articles worth reading https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-02-22/trump-deportation-threats-to-constrict-already-tight-job-market https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-22/why-trump-s-immigration-crackdown-could-sink-u-s-home-prices HA! Good Fun!

might not be appropriate to compare all crowdfunding. compare to wasteland 3, also a fig campaign and sequel, makes more sense, eh? wasteland 3 brought in half as much during last few days as it did during day 1. still an impressive last minute acceleration, but not quite the same as kickstarters. as such, one would expect ~$500k 'tween now and the end o' the campaign. HA! Good Fun!

dear lord. so the issue actual gets attention and condemnation from the media including that bastion o' right-wing media, the washington post, and you are still trying to spin? lack o' coverage is hardly as you first described, eh? and 'cause some after-the-fact snippet from a nyt magazine piece didn't get the worldwide and instant condemnation trump's baffling and mind boggling assertion received in real time, you see a fundamental difference? if at the time o' the iran deal rhodes had admitted to massaging the media during a national broadcast press conference or speech, you genuine think the media woulda' been quiet? honest. you ain't even trying anymore. HA! Good Fun!

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/21/federal-hiring-freeze-suspends-army-child-care-programs.html gosh, who woulda' thunk the hiring freeze would have unexpected and disproportionate impact 'pon those least able to deal with shortfalls from services 'pon which they depend? HA! Good Fun!

at the very least, perhaps amentep adopts virginia mayo as his board avatar. HA! Good Fun!

keep in mind your article is predictable spin https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/ben-rhodes-and-the-retailing-of-the-iran-deal/481893/ so yeah, a one-line bit in a ny times magazine article weren't necessarily taken at face value by everybody. even so, the media weren't shy 'bout blasting the perceived lack o' truthfulness neither https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/obama-official-says-he-pushed-a-narrative-to-media-to-sell-the-iran-nuclear-deal/2016/05/06/5b90d984-13a1-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html?utm_term=.c91ce9f68193 http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435136/obamas-no-1-adviser-ben-rhodes-profile-sycophancy-arrogance-incompetence etc. goodly number o' articles, editorials and similar. so... you are again talking nonsense. HA! Good Fun!

Nonsense, Obama could get away with anything, even openly admitting lying to and manipulating the press and Congress: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/17/editorial-ben-rhodes-must-account-for-lies-about-i/ what on earth does democrat Congressmen rolling over have to do with the present situation? "Obama told deliberate provable lies and never got called on it because he was the Messiah to the media." your comment to which we has been responding. 'course 'ccording to your article, is a ny times magazine article which brought deception to light. so... surreal. HA! Good Fun!

for wasteland 3's fig, last couple days brought in half as much as the first day. is a lop-sided u-shape, but still represents an impressive last minute uptake in contributions. as such, one would expect ~$500,000 'tween now and the end o' the campaign. sure, is possible, but to reach such a lofty number would involve a massive rate o' increase. seems kinda odd to make a stretch goal which appears outta reach. am wondering if this is some kinda nod to a possible post campaign pay-pal funding option or some other scheme? HA! Good Fun!

You're the one who claimed Obama would be "crucified", I simply pointed out that wasn't true, but true to form you then blame me for moral equivalency. As for your ps, see my edit to my previous answer. *sigh* obama got relaxed standards, but is no way he coulda' used rachel maddow as his source for facts and gotten away with it. if that were your point, you are being obtuse beyond reasoning. serious. you has become so inured to trumpisms you can't even see the difference. honest. you are beyond the pale. HA! Good Fun!

obama did indeed get the kid glove treatment for the first half of his first term. however, as we already observed earlier, obama complained that the media "hates me" as early as 2011. the media reciprocated by blasting him for his unprecedented efforts to freeze them out. so, you doing a Putin and claiming need for moral equivalency? should trump get relaxed treatment or fair treatment? as for the balanced article, it is one o' the only articles we has seen to fail to observe how change in legislation regarding crimes reported as rape were seeming responsible for the increase in sex offense crimes. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-sweden-rape-comments-criticised-donald-trump-immigration_uk_58ac01b4e4b07028b7036683 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/immigration-driving-crime-sweden-heres-what-official-statistics-say-1607827 "“In the Swedish system, individual reports regarding a great number of offences may affect and give rise to variations in the statistic,” the body says. "“For instance, when a single case is reported that turns out to involve hundreds or even thousands of instances of offences committed against an individual over the course of many years, every single incident is recorded as an offence in the year it was reported." kinda a major detail to miss, eh? HA! Good Fun! ps bah. this is idiotic. am actual arguing with somebody who is defending the President of the United States of America's reliance on a fox bit, referencing a previously unheard o' documentarian, for his facts regarding refugee violence. nuts.

do we think he is gonna have state or intelligence actual check before he makes claims about refugee crime in sweden? yes. hell yes. wth not? you would likely check breitbart, but any schmuck giving a speech at local optimist club would at least check google first. Gromnir has given speeches in US, europe, latin america and asia concerning free speech protections 'round the globe. we would never make a claim 'bout free speech failures in singapore based on nothing more than a ~2 minute story from cnn or fox. oh, and the President is no longer a possible candidate running for office. his ridiculous behaviour with twitter and spontaneous quoting o' unverified sources were amusing eye-roll fodder before he became the most visible elected official o' the most powerful nation on earth. and heck, trump weren't even referencing fox news, but rather a documentary maker who got a couple minutes o' time on fox. think mc'fly. think! again, if obama had done the same thing but with a rachel maddow story as his inspiration, he woulda' been crucified by every news agency. this is ridiculous. you arguing this is utter ridiculous. HA! Good Fun!

again you alter what trump said so it fits what you believe trump menat. and even then, what trump meant were that he watched a fox new bit 'bout a documentary referencing swedish crime rates. again, you cannot possibly explain away how asinine it is for a world leader to reference a fox news bit as a policy driver. the President has potential access to more information than any of us can imagine, but instead of having the state department or intelligence look into the claims by the documentary guy, trump instead repeats as if such stuff is fact. ... the fact you are even arguing this is mind boggling. you are defending the President's use o' a random fox news segment as his source for a claim regarding refugee violence. am getting brain freeze sensation simple reflecting 'pon that reality. 1% ain't contradictory at all. the number of refugees is still small compared to the total population. duh. HA! Good Fun! ps breitbart citing breitbart. ha

am knowing it is gauche to post 2x in same thread, but the following link is also informational and half as long as our previous video link. ppps might be going a bit too far, eh? for those wishing to hear mcmaster views regarding russia, we highly recommend the csis video/audio. HA! Good Fun!

gotta love anecdotal evidence. even so, you forget to look at the date o' the article. trump wouldn't have looked like a buffoon if were today he said, "You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible." HA! Good Fun! ps were also localized riots in 2010 and 2013. wanna see those graphs again which show decreasing overall crime rates in sweden during that span o' years?

so, regardless o' how everything else in the article reveals no significant increase in crime in sweden in spite o' large numbers o' immigrants, you still somehow believe the article proves the exact opposite? okie dokie. but azdeus and others already beat the sweden alternative facts fail to death in the other thread. if you didn't get before, you ain't gonna sudden have epiphany. and talk 'bout unclear on the concept. it is the fact trump were using a report he saw on fox as proof o' a swedish crime problem that is the problem. an unsupported report 'bout a documentary, by some guy you had never heard o' a couple weeks ago, regarding swedish crime works its way into a speech by the President of the United States of America as proof o' a refugee problem in sweden. not exact an academic or verifiable source, eh? folks on this board get mocked for doing similar and yet you not see a problem when is done by the President? you gotta quit reflexive defending and/or dismissing every trumpism. makes you look cartoonish. HA! Good Fun!

*sigh* if you are gonna retreat to silly selective quoting, there is little point to continuing. am just not understanding the need to reimagine or defend every trumpism, no matter how flawed. you did the same thing with inauguration crowd size and have continued from that point in a predictable downward spiral. the unsubstantiated voter fraud claim 'bout which even bill o'reilly questioned trump? you defended trump. had large numbers o' legal scholars pointing out the travel ban were rushed and poor written, but you immediate accused those who saw flaws in the order as being ignorant and/or wrong. your depth and breadth o' legal training finally paying off? how many more times? HA! Good Fun!

would rather have a ship with soul. HA! Good Fun!

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army-usawc/mcmaster_foundation.pdf time to hit the books, so to speak. HA! Good Fun! ps only through first 50 pages, but "In briefings and working sessions, the language of transformation, when combined with PowerPoint slides, seems to lull what otherwise might be critical audiences into passivity. PowerPoint’s “bulletizing” of ideas leads to shallow analysis. Color graphics and contrived charts substitute for thought and logic, yet create a facade of analytic credibility. The briefing dynamic often betrays an unspoken agreement between presenter and audience to give a higher priority to getting through the slides than examining the ideas and proposals that those slides represent. " one can foresee how mcmaster may have difficulty communicating important info to his new boss. pps we read the full paper. for folks not wanting the full 102 page analysis, much o' the points made in the paper is repeated in a nyt opinion piece written a decade later. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/opinion/sunday/the-pipe-dream-of-easy-war.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 will check out the following recording as well https://www.csis.org/events/harbingers-future-war-implications-army-lieutenant-general-hr-mcmaster#main

Gromnir isn't a troll, he's a half-orc. Also, it's bad form to post multiple times in the same thread without intervening posts. quick clarification: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66081-united-states-claims-at-being-a-democracy-seriously-threatened/?p=1441976 as an aside, folks does realize how repetitive this thread has become, yes? HA! Good Fun!