kanisatha

I agree. Glad you raised that. And for the record, there was similarly (though in the opposite direction) a difference in the sales of D:OS1 and D:OS2. This point is important. So, here's what my theory would say. Both PoE1 and D:OS1 had new, unfamiliar rules/mechanics. Neither one of them was D&D/D20, the most widely familiar old-school RPG ruleset out there. As such, people cautiously tested the waters with both games: 'Hey, these games don't have mechanics I'm familiar with, but they both say they are of the same family as the old IE games, which I liked, so let me give them a try,' Note that both PoE1 and D:OS1 had roughly similar, good sales numbers - about 1 million give or take. Then, once they experienced both those games, people reacted rather differently to them. With D:OS1 the reaction was: 'This is different from what is familiar to me, but I can easily and intuitively understand how everything works.' So most people who bought and played the first game happily embraced the second game, and in the process also encouraged newcomers to pick up the game. By contrast, the reaction for PoE1 was: 'This is different from what is familiar to me, and I cannot easily and intuitively understand how everything works, and as a result the game mechanics are extremely frustrating to me.' So many people who bought and played the first game found it not to their liking and opted not to embrace the second game. It was not that they were angry with the first game or hated it or anything like that, and therefore did not have any particular motivation to dump on the game in a review of it. But they just shrugged and said 'no thanks' to a second helping of the game. And the irony of it all is at least some of those people who played the first game but not the second game would probably have liked the second one given, as you correctly note, the many improvements made to the second game. More's the pity. So anyway, this then is the totality of my theory. It is a theory. I don't have any data to back it up. But I feel confident it is solid.

Sorry, I don't think this logic holds. I'm one of those who believes PoE2 struggled with sales because too many gamers found the rules too complicated and unintuitive. Yes, both P:Km and PoE have complicated and often unintuitive rules. But there is a major difference between them. P:Km is based on D&D 3.5e, and as such has a built-in base of hardcore fans who are familiar with and like that system, complicated and unintuitive as it may be. But PoE rules were something new and unfamiliar, and not that many people were willing to invest time and effort into gaining a working understanding of them. Therefore, my theory is that complicated and unintuitive rules/mechanics does deter many of today's gamers from wanting to play an RPG, but that this is mitigated by people being somewhat familiar with those rules. So, three, not two, categories of RPGs (in this context): games with rules that are uncomplicated and intuitive (ex. D:OS2 - strong sales); games with rules that are complicated and unintuitive, but also familiar (ex. P:Km - moderate sales); and, games with rules that are complicated and unintuitive, and also unfamiliar (ex. PoE2 - weak sales).

I think a lot of gamers' view is that first-person is what gives you the greatest amount of immersion in the world in an RPG, and this view has now seeped into the mindset of RPG developers. I personally disagree very strongly and also prefer third-person but as with everything else so too here, my view/preference is in the minority apparently. And first-person is just too jarring and confusing and frustrating a perspective for me to be able to handle such that I enjoy the game.

Yeah you're right. I didn't click on the images to take a closer look. In any case, seems like Obsidian is all about first-person perspective with their games these days (the job ads recently highlighted by people specifically mention first-person melee combat). So I probably won't get to play another Obsidian game for a long time to come. Sucks for me.

Could be the historical RPG Sawyer's been wanting to make.

Again, I totally get this. If it were real life, I would absolutely want and expect that our first ship captains out there exploring the galaxy be consummate pros. But in a TV show I am able to set aside my disbelief and embrace my inner child's sense of wonder and awesomeness. Maybe it is a very personal thing. For me, Star Trek and other similar shows are not just cool science fiction. From the time I was a little kid, age around six or seven, I have been fascinated by space travel and exploration, and even started reading Arthur C. Clark's books about that time (met him once too a few years later). Always wanted to grow up to be an astronaut. When that dream became unrealistic, I settled for being an aerospace engineer so I could build spaceships. But as an international student in the U.S. and not a citizen, that didn't work out either, and my career path went a different direction. But to this day, I find myself staring at the stars on a clear night, and remain totally fascinated by what might be out there. Nothing here on Earth even comes close to interesting me or capturing my imagination as much as what may be out there. I would give everything I have for a seat on a Mars flight.

Okay, I can see where you're coming from, but for me it's a matter of context and perspective. You have to imagine what it would be like to be one of the first human spaceship captains going out there into deep space following first contact with alien civilizations. Don't know about you but I can tell you if it were me I would literally be the proverbial kid in a candy store, totally giddy and slap-happy with delight every single minute. I think that's what you see with Archer, and I can relate to that.

Yet another thing where my preferences place me in the minority. I loved Enterprise, loved both Archer and T'Pol as characters, and yes even liked the theme song! So it really bothered me that the Trekkie purists attacked the show so much that it ended up getting the axe. The things I love always end up getting the axe.

This is exactly what struck me when I recently re-watched the series. Those Marquis related episodes in the final season were awful, and I lost a lot of respect for SIsko's character and found myself rooting for the Marquis and against Starfleet.

But you cannot transfer games you already bought through Origin to Steam even after linking your two accounts. I have all three DA games in Origin, and as much as I'd love to have them consolidated into my Steam library I cannot on principle justify re-buying them. So, sadly, this is no help to me.

Sadly, have to wait until tomorrow.

Really? Out here it is like 90% IPA. I don't mind IPAs, but prefer other types more and so it's a constant battle with my beer store to get them to stock more non-IPA types.

He. I was only commenting wrt high fantasy games. A sci-fi game ...? I may be more open to playing weird races.

Agreed. The final straw was areas where you had burning lava fire and then literally right next to it a bunch of cheery flowers and birds and bunnies hopping about. WTF. Yeah, it has to be human-like races for me to be able to play them (as the PC). Even orcs are perfectly fine. But lizards? Just no.

I agree very much that whether one likes the setting of a game is not just a critical factor but even a foundational factor in whether one will end up liking a game in that setting. The setting is the starting point for whether you like a game. I love the Eora setting. But I can appreciate others may not. That I absolutely hate the Rivellon setting is a big part of why I found D:OS to be a horrible game.

Yes I think the issue of people having to buy and play a game to know exactly what's in it and how it plays is overblown imo. In today's world, one can use gameplay videos and streams from other people, including pro reviewers who get their copy of the game in advance, to get a pretty good sense of whether they will like a game. And this can happen fairly soon after a game is released.

In any case, that they are once again going to first-person really bothers me. It is why I already have to miss out on TOW. I would be so very unhappy to have to miss out on a second major Obsidian game.

I know it's off-topic, but do you suppose the "cheesiness" of some of the writing in P:Km is the result of everything having first been written in Russian and then being translated to English? In the most recent AMA for P:WotR, the devs mention how the English translations from Russian often don't come across the way the writers intended and that this is a continuing source of much frustration for the writers.

This could be. They specifically use the word "gunplay."

It's one opinion. Doesn't make it definitive. I'm quite sure we will see more "PoE" games. It is likely they won't be in the same form as PoE 1&2 and maybe something more similar to DA:I or Skyrim.

I agree that it wont be post-apoc as that is essentially TOW. But it really sucks that it will be first-person. I hope they will find a way to give the option of third-person.

Well, correct me if this is not true, but my understanding is that for both PoE games the DLCs had someone other than Josh being the lead on making them. And for me, for both games, the DLCs were significantly better than the base game. My personal opinion, but just saying. Obsidian has a lot of very talented individuals who have the chops to be project lead. Having Josh be the overall creative director of the studio is perfect. But someone else can and should be project lead on a PoE3.

But is this meaningful consequence? What exactly happens when the guards come and try to arrest you? Either they let you go or you kill them with no further repercussions. I don't see any meaningful consequences there at all. If you get hauled away to a prison cell in which you languish for a long time and you gain a widespread reputation as an untrustworthy crook, that would be consequence. But of course players would reject that as too extreme, even those who keep saying they want consequences in their RPGs. I think self-described RPG fans love to talk a good talk about wanting meaningful consequences in their games, but in reality don't (though I want to be clear I'm not saying this is the case with you).

Well I'm not a beta backer so I'm not involved. No expectation of a survey for me. But as a general backer, if the beta is about to be released (the new promised date was June), then of course I am very happy about that development.

I have stated on many occasions how much respect I have for Josh, but as far as PoE goes I actually think it would be better if Josh walked away from PoE and left it to someone else to take the lead on any future PoE game. I think Josh is an extremely talented game designer, and clearly very passionate about his craft. But I disagree with him on many of his preferences for game design.