Greydragon

In reply to Diagoras's dissection of my post I will elaborate: This changes the balance of power. This is a situation that could be likened with a revolution; if some random guy can kill a man who yesterday was practically invincible wouldn't the world change, drastically both militarily and politically? An entire upper class would collapse overnight. I left the statement broad because there are so many different variables and examples to consider. We are dealing, most likely with medieval/renaissance era technology. In terms of accuracy the bow, particularly the longbow would still easily outpace in terms of firing speed. A gifted archer can release a steady stream of six arrows a minute at an accuracy greater than that of an arquebus, the main reason they fell into decline was the training required to master the bow took decades and the gun had better penetration. It could stop a heavily armoured man, by bludgeoning him into submission. Also the psychological impact of guns is not to be underestimated, as it significantly impacts morale. I will not deny the armour penetration of the weapon but only at close range was it able to pierce heavy armour. The longbow was effective at long range. Even in the 16th century their use was still common dying out in the 17th due to the rarity of materials (yew trees were harvested far into Europe by then) and the rapid advances in guns. However talking about the average user would be beneficial in terms of the game, would it not? Since we'd be running into them. Actually judging a weapon by the majority of the users is a good rule of thumb. Also what precisely was that statement supposed to mean? It is rambling and incoherent. Polearms are a poor choice in terms of comparison; they are used by practically everyone, cavalry to infantry. Perhaps now you could be more specific? Polearms are a far broader topic than bows. Even in terms of use; a halberd for example can poke or cut. There are blunt polearms and some designed for non-lethal use. I will assume you meant the pike? It was indeed used to poke groups of men from another group of men, or guard against cavalry, or act as an impenetrable wall. It was very successful at this; Alexander the Great used it to conquer most of the known world. Your point? Assuming there was one ... Isn't replaceable by any creature in the world? Unless of course you count cattle, zebra, donkeys, and a multitude of other animals that may not even exist. We are not talking about Earth here. These alternate species may have been domesticated as long or longer than horses. Also dogs have a long tradition in warfare on Earth; as do many species. As early as Ancient Egypt.

So far all we have to show for a similar model is 'Snakes on a plane.' Lets hope that they get it right next time and develop something we can sink our teeth into.

Good points from Adhin. If you are going to have animals and mounts present in a world at least show that they exist in logical situations. A field: cows. It isn't so hard. Even if it is merely a drawing or part of the introduction. Mounts do have major complications for RPGs; it is hard to include them in combat, however the mundane locations should feature domesticated animals beyond a cat, dog or bird. As for exotic mounts some primitive cultures and species may still use them; say a small humanoid riding an elephant bird like creature into battle, etc. They would be interesting precisely because we can use the strategies that have precluded them from civilized warfare. Say a druid causing a mass panic or chaos effect among the animals. Even a firecracker/grenade/smoke bomb would work as well to startle and disorganize.

Is there a reason this applies to firearms, and not to swords and bows and polearms? In fact, wouldn't the existence of cheap, easily used destructive magic basically end all military technology development? What's the point if you can just vomit a fireball out of your hands? Likewise, fortifications would never be developed. I'm guessing the reason that firearms are present is the same reason that the setting mimics Medieval Europe in other ways - magic is magic and technology is technology. Magic isn't a push-button, systematic, and consistent system similar to technology, but rather similar to historical conceptions of magic - and thus not very suitable for widespread military deployment. Good point; I was focused solely on guns. With a gun no magic is required to make it capable of felling a mage. Swords and arrows would have a tradition of magical enhancement and there would be tricks for penetrating barriers, just not as directly as a gun. However you also have to assume that the powerful mages while useful are rare enough that they cannot make up more than the core of an army and lack staying power. This would make artillery valid in long term sieges. Essentially with a gun anyone can kill anyone in combat for the first time in this world's history. The reason people still use swords and bows is for close combat and frequency of fire. You see it all the time with pirates and this part was historically accurate: since guns are slow to reload most fighters carry multiple pistols and a sword/other weapon. If they can prepare, a rifle as well. This is during a time when guns are common and single shot much like that of the Project: Eternity world. For a sword the weakness of the gun, the reload speed, is still exploitable. On an open field it is suicidal, but in a cover situation rushing a gunman while reloading is a valid and effective strategy. If a man is wealthy they can afford a more expensive weapon with double or rotating barrels, the revolver (and cartridges) are still centuries away (I assume). An adventurer would likely be able to afford/capture one of these more expensive guns in the long term events of the game. So a bow while less deadly to mages in particular is still an effective weapon with multiple uses (fire arrows for example) that can be used three or more times for every gunshot. It is also in the hands of an expert far more accurate due to a gun's haphazard loading method and the smooth barrel (we now use rifling which adds a corkscrew motion to a single bullet to stabilize it in flight). However in massed combat a gun is far deadlier as packs a heavier punch and it adds a psychological element to the fight: fire and a loud noise that can demoralize enemies, particularly in barrages. So the majority of soldiers with guns don't need to be weathered veterans with decades of experience; they can be peasants taught little more than how to shoot and march in order. There is no tradition of magical guns; they are too new. However I would expect that as time goes on eccentric enchanters may turn to bullets as a promising new business opportunity.

In relation to gun vs mages I would imagine with the existence of powerful magic the role of guns would be reduced in warfare; the heavier siege weapons would be worthless compared to a squad of wide-scale destruction focused elite wizards. No need to lug heavy ballistas or siege cannon when high powered magic is mobile and needs little preparation and no ammunition. Since guns effectively trump traditional magic protection however I would also expect the focus to be on rifles or multi-barrelled pistols; the rifle for long range sniping of the deadly mages before they get a good look at you or the pistol for a barrage of bullets at medium/close range that the mage can't answer. I am assuming that typically magic requires a ritual to attack, whereas a gun is instantaneous. As for no horses: There are always alternatives, from oxen to dog carts there is some means of transport. This is a fictional world too, so there would certainly be exotic mounts that fulfil the role of a horse. However I would assume that mounts are not used in combat because of druids and cyphers. If a mounted warrior met one of those as an enemy it would end very badly for him. Scale that up to a cavalry unit and a druid or cypher could probably still do significant damage. Even a mage with a grease-like spell would be devastating; most horses would break a leg slipping at a gallop.

In the case of the original Fable there was a reactive economy which could easily be broken by simply finding a merchant with a large number of expensive gems at reduced cost (because there were so many in stock) buying them all and then selling them back immediately for the increased price (because there were none in stock). You could do this forever, earning limitless gold. So in essence the treasure chests were not worth opening for anything less than a quest item/unique weapon/clothing, they were a waste of time that could be better spent elsewhere. If there is an economy included make sure it cannot be easily manipulated (unless part of a plot/underhanded activity). I also agree that the Dragon Age price scaling was ridiculously unbalanced. Surely even half-price is too low for an item. 70% or thereabouts is reasonable; you have to expect the merchant is trying to make a profit, but gouging the seller down to less than twenty is implausible. They would be out of business, no one would sell at that price ... even in the middle of a war for Middle Ear... er ... I mean Ferelden. Especially when they are being sold weapons and armour, a scarce resource before a major battle. However at the end of a war in a crumbling nation that is a different story. Another example is a distinctive stolen item sold to a fence. It would usually fetch a low price because of the risk. Now if you had arranged a deal and buyer beforehand for a precious item; the price would be fair.

It has been a while since I last added any ideas so here are a few more for a proposed (by me) prestige class for Ciphers, assuming that the vanilla format of a Cipher is a telepath and/or telekinetic. Time Manipulation/Seer This is a very different class from the other prestige classes as it is not good at large scale destruction. Instead it excels at controlling the battlefield and neutralizing active effects/abilities. Congeal Time: As an active ability the Cipher may permanently slow a creature for as long as they are focused upon it and doing nothing else. Time Bends: The Cipher may activate a one use per day ability that confers a haste effect. As they increase in level so does their movement speed. Accelerated Magic: The Cipher can with a turn halve the time limit of any magical spell or spell like ability, with opponents this affects the top most spell however for allies this can be used selectively to target harmful magic or if there is a regenerative spell or ability active double the effectiveness of the spell as well as halve the time limit. High level ability: Skirt the Present. The Cipher becomes adept at manipulating time so well that they are able to step back to a point where the past becomes the present and straddle this line for a few seconds which correlates to several minutes where the world literally freezes. Using this they are able to act in any way they wish for several turns as both enemies and allies remain paralysed. It costs an obscene amount of stamina and can only be performed once a day with two turns of preparation necessary. Butterfly's Revenge: With a glance at the random probabilities of your actions you hurl a pebble and trigger a chain of events so unlikely they border on miraculous. Random status effect and the possibility of light to heavy damage from a variety of freak occurrences, from startling a venomous snake at the foe's foot to causing a sink hole to pop out of nowhere or a tree to fall. There are a multitude of random results, ranging from merely humiliating to potentially lethal. All that you know is that it isn't a positive outcome for the opponent. See Through Them: Know where attacks are going to be; even if you cannot avoid them you can still avoid the worst case scenarios. All attacks are downgraded by one; True hits become merely hits. Hits become glancing blows and so on. Active ability that cannot be used with other abilities as it requires total focus. It does however grant a hefty attack bonus against enemies. Temporal Flux: Attack an enemy by changing their body and knowledge in relation to the present. Reflex to avoid. Two turn ability that randomly causes the opponent to either age or become younger; resulting in a loss of primary martial skill but temporarily increased health (for youth) or a general weakening of strength and constitution but an increase in attack due to experience (for old age). A risky move as the enemy is healed by this ability but also weakened significantly in a key area.

The Vengaul A rigidly ordered hierarchy under the command of a powerful but distant warlord. Their objectives are territorial conquest. They are honest and brutal; either submit to their commands or be obliterated. They often assimilate the local religions and cultures into their ranks so their religion is varied and so are the races in the lower ranks of their hierarchy. Enterprising and skilled tacticians and warriors are welcomed with open arms. Their capitals are melting pots of multiple cultures; the laws are rigidly enforced with extreme, perhaps even fanatical loyalty by their guards. There is no lack of backstabbing among the upper echelons, however the Leader and his foremost commanders are untouchable; revered as semi divine. At the moment their armies are resting but soon they will march once more and bring all that oppose them to their knees, or die trying. With a focus on mobile, ranged combat and tactics they have swept aside many powerful nations and turn to a new land, ripe for the plucking. Their conquest and successes are seen as demonic by outsiders however civilians who fall under their rule are treated well and the Vengaul have no love for slavers or the practice of slavery. As an enemy they are relentless and and vicious. As an ally they are steadfast and trustworthy. As long as you remain in a low position. The greater leaders are strict but fair as their role is secure, the lesser ones jealous and competitive. While their scientific knowledge is low, their wide territories and huge revenues have built up a large cadre of skilled and intelligent people in managerial positions. For those who wish to know about the far reaches of the world or the secrets of religion and magic this is definitely the place to be. Their power and influence stretches further than any readily available map.

Aside from other dimensions the game has the potential to explore the minds of enemies and even that of the main character using Ciphers; a mental struggle as a separate reality. It offers interesting perspectives like those in the game Psychonauts except darker and less comedic. Imagine besieging an enemy's will and winning with abstract concepts as siege weapons (fear, despair, terror, self doubt, etc.).

Drinkers Drinkers are simple animals with a vampiric bent. They are roughly pony sized creatures that are heavily built and resemble lizards in body shape. The creature’s skin is soft and fleshy; it has blunt claws and large, wide eyes with a horizontally slit pupil surrounded by blood red. The startling thing is that the creature has in place of a mouth four two foot long tentacles surrounding a tube of flesh in the centre. When attacking the Drinker's tube rolls back on itself; revealing three ivory spikes, each a foot long. They are opportunistic predators, attracted to the scent of blood. Their typical style of attack is to charge a target, knock it over and then hold it down with the tentacles and their bodyweight. The creature then begins to drink after stabbing the prey shallowly with the spikes. They wander in small groups, working in loose coordination to overpower and pin moderate sized creatures. They always attack the wounded when given a chance. An ever present menace in the wilderness but little threat to organized or numerous opponents. They are easily confused and distracted.

The Disembodied Often people ask "What happens when a Cipher dies while busy in someone else's mind?" The result is the Disembodied; a living soul that attempts to quietly take control of any nearby occupied body. This can be a slow process. The afflicted often doesn't notice until they suffer nightmares and/or begin sleepwalking. The process is so subtle that the majority of sufferers rarely understand until they are in the final life or death struggle with the intruder as it tries to tear their control away forever. In rare occasions this can even occur to animals. Only another Cipher can recognize the threat, but the desperation that drives the Disembodied is a powerful force. Many times this has occurred to the killer of the Cipher's body or their loved ones; as the Disembodied is also driven by rage and vengeance. It is a last ditch attempt at survival for the Disembodied; they have invested the last of their strength to this endeavour, if they fail they are doomed to die without the possibility of revival. If successful, the killers of the Cipher usually are attacked in an attempt to murder them in reply, directly or indirectly. Also it is to be noted that the reembodied Cipher still possesses all of their mental abilities and all the capacity of the new body including memories; the only difference is that the former Disembodied will almost never leave their body unattended, due to trauma.

Easy, hard or shades of grey? I don't like cakewalks however I don't like reloading every five minutes or so either. Ultimately all we have is our own preferences. I have expressed mine as somewhere in the grey area. After all a boss is meant to challenge and entertain; to increase the difficulty and pressure a couple of notches or exist as a novelty. If it doesn't add an element of fun or effort it is no different from a normal enemy.

So what you want is a boss that completely destroys you regardless of what you do? Where is the fun in dying over and over and over again against the same enemy? That is just frustrating, unless it part of the game mechanic like Dark Souls. I don't expect anyone would be able to pull off perfect tactics against a boss they just stumbled across; a good boss usually makes you cling to life by your fingertips. Walking away unscathed is impossible without extensive knowledge and experience in game. It becomes easy only when you have hours of gameplay under your belt and extensive knowledge of all the boss's attacks and detailed strategies. After all what is strategy if not a tool to make your chances of victory certain?

Not necessarily; a hidden undead monster in lost tomb can count as a bonus boss. Stumbling across a secret lair of a notorious pirate, etc. Bonus bosses shouldn't be disconnected, they should be part of the local flavour. For example a wizard's tower in the middle of town that no one in their right mind enters. Or encountering a weak creature that keeps running away as you approach ... until you walk into a massive, completely avoidable ambush. Bonus bosses can be scripted events or the owners of cordoned off areas, they don't have to be quests, you just need to be a little reckless to stumble across them.

A good boss is one that can pulverise you if you act rashly but is trounced quite easily when you employ superior tactics and tough it out. Essentially someone you don't fight with half-heartedly. All or nothing. They should be connected to the setting not just there for no reason. Multistage bosses can break monotony provided they are logical and interesting. For example a body swapper or illusionist/mental battle etc. I love it when there is included some difficult and obscure way of defeating them indirectly through dialogue (eg. Planescape Torment). I hated the tacked on boss battles of Deus Ex: HR, which went against the grain of a non-violent stealth character, forcing players into a specific style of game play when the original was all about allowing varied styles of play.

The Shattered One: A god for mad men and compulsive gamblers. A divinity which in the ancient past was driven insane. It will present choices which cannot be answered rationally. It shows multiple sides to it's personality at all times; to the point of incoherence. It may bless or curse based entirely upon the dominant personality trait present. It is a mirror that influences the reflected; every side has a different flaw, not one is normal. Symbol: A gem with an irregular crack. Enemies: Anything lawful or structured, anything rigidly cruel or kind. Particularly likes to interfere with illusionists and con artists, making their lies truth. Manifestation: A conundrum involving illusion. Occasionally it deliberately becomes a mirror and makes a false image true or vice versa. Dangerous at costume parties. Like any mad man it is not in control of its own actions and thus can actually work in direct opposition to itself. Occasionally it has been known to lift curses it placed on people to begin with and alternately kill those it had previously blessed.

This was my assumption too. Also in light of the new update on combat mechanics I'd like to propose a few more abilities based upon the 'sticky' melee combat the game is confirmed to include. As a Cipher is unlikely to be in close combat unless specifically developed in that way, either specializing or perhaps adding a bit of utility for the foreseeable close combat scenarios that must occur would be useful. You don't remember me: The Cipher is able to break free of melee combat by wiping the last few moments of memories from the minds of enemies engaging them in extreme close range. This results in a turn of unhindered escape from the affected opponents. This ability is limited to a handful of uses per combat. Stop there!: Utilizing a hypnotic pulse the Cipher temporarily paralyses a single opponent at moderate range. This lasts for only a turn however it leaves the enemy open to any attacks that take advantage of paralysis. Useful against a lone enemy advancing on a helpless Cipher, for a trap or to control the flow of combat/help other weak character escape melee. Also limited use ability. Get away!: Telekinesis knocks down enemies in an arc causing minor damage, fortitude to avoid effects. Useful as crowd control when being swarmed by weak melee attackers. Single turn ability. Your weakness is ... here!: For the close combat focused Cipher who wants to be able to threaten two opponents at once like a fighter there is this ability; using prognostication the Cipher learns where these opponents weak points will be and attacks there, keeping two enemies threatened simultaneously. Turn limited ability. Activating another ability cancels the effect.

...You lose. Race already designed. http://eternitywiki.com/File:AumauaWizard.jpg Didn't you even read the post? I did say that I was fine with it. So how did I lose exactly? The ideas I threw out were just random ideas and nothing more. I wasn't attempting to design the race. If I were you can be sure they would be far more detailed. A couple of lines? I write sagas for fun, friend. Besides I'm busy imagining the reaction of a rat-man being asked as an intro quest to kill rats in a basement. I can see potential for some great one liners, taunts and actions.

Who else thought of 'Wind in the Willows' when they read the thread title? Seriously though, ratmen and other common anthropomorphs have been used far too regularly, particularly in D&D. Although almost exclusively as enemies. I could live with playable intelligent rats, but there are plenty of interesting alternatives. Primitive Bear-men barely able to talk? Evolved dinosaurs? How about an advanced insectoid race? Beings of living crystal? Shapeless beings? Living souls in inanimate bodies (like a golem/quasi-elemental race) etc.

I'm thinking about non-combat abilities: Map the Wild: The Cipher connects to the eyesight of birds and vermin, allowing observation of the majority of the current map and possibly observing secret areas, traps and behind closed doors as well as spotting ambushes. Wrong Person: Guards, assassins and bounty-hunters who are trying to capture/kill the Cipher may find themselves confused about who they hunt and instead turn upon one of their own from the beginning of combat, deliberately mislead by the Cipher tampering with their memories. You Dare Defy Me?!: A weak minded opponent who doesn't realize with whom they are dealing can be forcefully and painfully enlightened by obvious Telekinetic and Telepathic forces. One-way Trip: An annoying person hanging around? With a little teleportation you can send them somewhere far, far away. A deserted island perhaps? Feeling nasty? How about a volcano or perhaps the middle of an ocean? Where is it?: Someone lost something? With a casual glance through the owner's sub-conscious the Cipher knows where to begin looking. Spontaneous Distraction: Need to distract a guard to get into an exclusive party and see someone who annoyed you already inside or passing? Set their underwear aflame and have a good laugh at their expense as you enter. Lights Out: Surrounded on all sides at night by torch bearing muggers? Snuff out the torches with cryokinesis and slip away while they're blind. Where do you think you're going?: Annoyed by pickpockets who run with your hard earned cash? Freeze them to the ground and take it back without even needing to give chase. You think you can escape?: An enemy trying to run and warn more enemies? Teleport him right back to where you are standing; holding a weapon ready to finish the job. Ultimate Haggle: Know precisely how much your items are really worth to a merchant by reading their mind and squeeze them for every copper coin. Hmm... I guess I still had more after all.

I've been trying to keep my ideas within the bounds of the game it is after all supposed to be around Baldur's Gate character levels. I'm going to take it a step higher... towards that of the near God-like super beings which must exist. Perhaps such people/monsters will have a role in the game. I doubt they'll be playable... yet. Near Omniscience: Using telepathy a Cipher draws upon the knowledge of all unshielded minds across the world gaining massive bonuses to lore, crafting and weapon mastery in all forms. Pulverise All: The Cipher causes a map-wide crushing effect by increasing gravity. The closer to the Cipher the more intense the effect, starting with slow at very long range, scaling to paralysis at long range. At medium range a knockdown effect and light damage. At close range heavy damage and a strength/fortitude roll against death by crushing. Incinerate All: Every enemy in sight catches fire and suffers intense burning damage over time, unless immune. Teleport Doom: Enemies are randomly teleported; possibly being trapped underground or falling from the upper atmosphere. Few return alive, fewer healthy. Kinetic Wrath: Choose an enemy and crumple them like paper. Phased Existence: Become nearly etherial, immune to teleportation and gain a lethal touch attack as a normal attack. Plasma Destruction: Utilize a beam weapon of utmost destruction to cut down enemies with a glance. Summoned Nightmare: Bring a mental horror out of your mind and unleash it against your enemies as a physical, indestructible entity for as long as you focus. Mental God: Your mental powers and strength are not drained as long as they are used within your body. Cipher becomes immune to normal weapons and gains moderate resistance to elemental damage. With a gesture direct magical attacks are deflected. Power Possession: Directly duel a demi-god mentally in an attempt to temporarily usurp it's power. Tame the Strong: Charm a monster or demon typically immune to such power. It is over the top, but not quite destroying stars and squashing planets. I'm mostly out of ideas... Also double post... sorry.

I'm winging this post without any real ideas so if it's terrible that's my excuse. I was thinking about cooperation abilities; the abilities listed (by me anyway) are mostly purely one on one attacks and abilities that only lead to combination attacks. I'm thinking some true combination attacks would be interesting. The cost would be at least a single turn for the ability and substantial stamina drain. For example: Cipher + Shield using ally Telekinetic Refraction: The Cipher empowers an allied character with a shield equipped to pummel opponents and reflect piercing attacks and beam magics. Cipher + two weapon specialist ally Astral Twin: An ally utilizing two weapons at once will gain greater weapon effectiveness and an extra set of attacks. Cipher + Rogue Memory Blank: Under the Cipher's care the rogue fades from the memories of enemies gaining several rounds of concealment; allowing multiple sneak attacks. Cipher +Druid Wild Memories: The Cipher boosts the Druid's ability scores while shape-shifted by implanting true memories of the animal the druid seeks to emulate. Cipher + Fighter Drawing upon the memories and souls of long dead master warriors the Cipher makes an allied fighter into a juggernaut for a handful of turns, adding natural armour, greater strength and temporary health. Cipher + Two Handed weapon using Ally Telekinetic Slash: For a handful of turns the Cipher causes a two handed weapon to cause a damaging arc during normal attacks, potentially hitting more than the initial target. Cipher + Priest Channelled Enlightenment: The Cipher connects with meditating holy men and temporarily boosts an allied priest's faith. The priest gains a bonus to turn undead and healing magic. Cipher + Ranger Directed Fury: The Cipher boosts an allied ranger's attack speed and damage against their chosen enemy by drawing upon the hidden depths of their hatred. Cipher + Barbarian Infernal Rage: Drawing upon the rage of demons the Cipher imprints this unnatural hatred upon an allied barbarian, causing a boost to attack and haste effect. Cipher + Paladin Checkmate Rush: The Cipher infuses an allied paladin with the soul of a famous strategist granting a boost to charisma, wisdom and an increase in initiative. Cipher + Monk Martial Soul: The Cipher draws upon the ferocity and skill of an ancient martial arts master, adding a natural armour and dexterity bonus and a knockdown effect to the normal attacks of an allied monk. Cipher + Chanter (assuming this class is like an enhanced bard) Lost Chant: The Cipher grants an allied chanter access to memories of truly tragic events which not only boosts their normal chants but inspires the chanter to create a horror effect on nearby enemies as they express this tortured pain in their song. Cipher + ranged weapon using ally Storm Strike: The Cipher adds a powerful electrical effect to an ally's missile weapons and a seeking effect adding a greater chance of a true hit. Cipher + Mage Master Focus: The Cipher adds the memories of the arcane of all within range to an allied mage; boosting intelligence and difficulty class modifiers to their magic. Cipher + Cipher Joint Force: With this ability a Cipher merges minds with another allied Cipher and together they bring a storm of telekinetic and telepathic rage to the general area. Explosions and debris strike enemies, however the ability is so taxing the ciphers are only able to keep the effect active for a scant few turns Cipher + Cipher + Cipher Directed Cataclysm: A true force to be reckoned with is unleashed when three ciphers join minds and power. A cyclone is summoned that ravages a large area. Lightning bolts fall like rain. Enemies are wrenched and thrown around like toys. Even great enemies cannot move easily (large creatures suffer slow effect). Through this allies walk unharmed, acting as they like, unmolested. Did I miss anything?