KingSnake

Didn't you go ask him why he does it? You prolly should... KingSnake.

wasn't satisfied with the ending, but, for the most part, I got it. allow me to try and explain. (bare with me, bad spelling, poor grammar, and generally crappy writing skills here...) Ok, this WHOLE game, is about betrayal and manipulation. Your entire adventure is one huge set up by Kreia. She was manipulating you to get revenge on a number of people. The sith lords for casting her out and stripping her of her power. The Jedi for being blind fools, and also for exiling her, blaming her for Revens fall. (I think) The Force, for controlling everything, and having a will of it's own, and controlling events to shape it's will, at the expense of others free will... She used you to achieve this. She knew your ability to create force bonds with people would draw force sensitive people to you, thus making you stronger, and drawing out the sith lords she wanted destroyed. She also knew that you'd be able to draw out the Jedi, them fearing what your capable of, and knowing you had questions you wanted answered from them. She also saw in you, someone who wounded the force, and, exerted YOUR will over it's. She wasn't sure how you did it, but she saw the potential there, I guess, to destroy the force... I'm not sure HOW, but... she said she saw the death of the force in you. (Maybe she didn't mean the whole force, for the whole galaxie, but the Force in YOU, as in, you killed it's control over you by turning away from it... i'm still thinking on this.) Anyway, her agenda was revenge and destruction, and you where the key to all this. So, she found you, set you up to (somehow) come back to the republic, started the rumor of you being the last Jedi, knowing the sith would attack you, then slipped herself in to the mix, acting as a savor and mentor for you, and then set about getting you ready for the tasks at hand, getting revenge. I think along the way though, you began to teach her a thing or to. (you are a nature leader after all.) She saw the potential of you becoming the strongest of her students, and that too, intrigued her. She grew attached. But despite that attachment she still wanted revenge. So the pieces fell into place. You grew powerful, gathered other force sensitive, found the masters, which allowed her to kill them, unless you did it. Then eventually drew the attention of the biggest threat of all, Darh Nailius. Why was he so easy to defeat you ask? She set him up. She knew he'd prolly be hungry and weak. Remember he needs to feed on the force to stay strong, and she knew it. She also knew that talos didn't have enough force food to sustain him, and that after making the long trip there, he'd be hungry and vulnerable, and that because of that, you'd prolly be able to take him. After that, you follow her to malacor, and kill her pupil, as she knew you would, and then you faced her. This is where I get kind of confused. She wants you to kill her. She feels that once you done that, she would have succeeded in training the most powerful apprentice she ever had, more powerful then her first, and she could die satisfied in that knowledge. Ok, but what about destroying the force? I don't fully understand that point... she didn't seem like she was actually doing anything at malocor to destroy the force... Maybe that had something to do with the ritual at Duxon. Or maybe the ritual at duxon was, more then likely, somehow tied to helping the General somehow take over the kingdom... or maybe it was a ritual to give the sith troops power over the beasts they controlled. I'm not sure to be honest. as far as the end goes, I believe they left it as open ended as they could. How'd you and your friends get off the planet? Well, after Kreia was dead, all you had to do was find them, get to the hawk, and leave, staring the shadow thing as you left. What of the droids? I'm assuming the little remote showed GoTo he's got alot of spunk for a droid, and overrode GoTo's programming and destroyed Malocor, taking him and Goto with it. (poor little guy) and your Decision at the end? I was looking for the, stay with my friends option, but I think the Decision is really made by you after the fact. As in, after the game, you make the call. Did you follow Reven? Did you go back with your friends? Did you return to exile. I think that choose is left unanswered purposefully, so that abundant fan fic's can be writing... LoL. But, there was crap I really didn't like about the ending. 1. What the heck was Reven doing? Leaving to fight the real sith? Alone? Just abandoning his friends and loved ones, leaving them with unanswered questions and hurt? That is NOT how my Reven would have acted. But I guess once KoToR is over, he's not MY Reven anymore. 2. If the Decision is really mine to Follow reven, stay with my friends, or return to exile, then I hope I picked a wrong dialogue option at the end, because the future's Kreia gave me sure looked like I left after Reven. Meria misses me and dies on a planet saving lives, had I been there, she'd not be missing me, nor would she die, I'd be there to save her butt. same with handmaiden, she'd not have to teach about what I'm like if I'm there. but as I type this, a thought accurse to me. What if, by choosing to ask about your friends, and asking to see there future, you choosing to follow reven... I mean, why would I ask what will happen to them, if I'm going to be there to see it? Hmm. and a line at the end also bugs me. She said, if you question her about reven, and ask her why she didn't follow him, she says she's there to show others the way? Huh? If she were trying to destroy the force... what OTHERS would there be? And the true sith she talked about would be dead too... and, if you killed her, like she wanted, then, your the only OTHER one she showed the way too... and if she broke you, you'd not be following after reven at all.... that line just didn't make any since to me... it didn't fit into any of her agandies.... I'm guessing it'd make more since if I had more influence with her and had her open up about reven beforethe end. that's what I'm working on now... anyway, that's my whole take on it. I too, have started a new quest. Playing it more slowly and thoroughly. Hoping to find out what happened to Jolee, Mission, Big Z and Johinia... anyone seen hide nor hair of them yet? KingSnake.

Yes and no. They have changed the combat animations of the feats as you level. Mine went from normal, to a kind of spin attack, to a, quicker looking frount muilt slash. It's accually kind of cool, adds a feeling of progression. but as for me, i do my old, cast BoS and Flurry combo, and i'm distroyying everything in my path. :cool: I like what they've done to flurry. KingSnake.

Ok, i too built my first saber on Nar Shadda. But, at this point, i have one light saber, and 3 force users. Me - My single blade. I'm set. Karie - She needs a single. and Do how do i get more lightsabers? Do i build them? Do i find them whole? help would be greatly appreacited. Also, is it possilbe to get my orginal saber back for the witch? KingSnake.

Ok... i COMPLETELY understand how some people don't want stuff spoiled for them... (I personally am not one of them... but to each his own) and it's a reasonible request... BUT, why in god's name would you come to a forum labled, KoToR 2 Spoilers in the first place?? I kind of think if your really wanting to avoid spoilers, posting here is an oxymoron. LoL. KingSnake.

I think they deleted your other thread. anyway, i'll try to explain WHY i think MY reven would win. (notice i said MY reven. My reven is Uber LightSide, McGiver Like, Scout/Guardian. others will play stuff out differently) Most of my view of Reven is shaped by what i've been told about him. Since nothing definitive has been writen, (and really, how could it be?) it's all a matter of how you see your creation. My Reven is smart. Ok, more like a freaking Genusis. I've trained him in Muilty Skills, Droid Repair (he did create HK after all... sure i guess he could have had him made, but, in my world, Reven built him) Computer Hacking (goes hand in hand with Droid skills) Being a amazing stratigest, his Awareness was top notch, Being a charismatic leader, his Persaion was top notich, and he knew basice first aid. His saber skills were master level. Having masterd Dualing, Saber, Flurry, and Jedi Defence, he was as close to a master with his Light saber as anyone could be. Prolly give good old Mase a run for his money. B) He was no slough in the force either. Much like a proper Jedi should, he trained in all light side defencive skills, no attacking powers, Save force Wave. His defence is top notice too. and in his little game world, NO ONE was his equal. (this is, also largely due to the fact the game was kind of easy... lol) So, from my point of view, from how I built and played him, we was a top notce Jedi with a Genusis for materilay stragigey. Could he beat Vader... it's really not a fair compersons, for the reasons i started above, BUT, I think mine would give him a heck of a fight. Like i said, it's not that my guy was more powerful with the force, cause he prolly wasn't... All he needs is enough power to block Vaders power, which i think he could, after all i focused on defencive force powers. At this point is down to a saber dual, and I went to pain staking efferot to make my guy a saber MASTER. I have a hard time beliving anyone could beat me outright... and even if Vader was better, i'd be good enought to hold him off... relize i was out classed, and retreat, and find a differnt way to defeat him. (basice batman logic. lol) Same with Exar. I don't have to be MORE POWERFUL then him to beat him. I just have to be smarter, and more resorsful, and able to defend against his power... which I think i could. But in the end it's all spectilive... cause... my reven isn't your reven... who isn't his reven... So basically, it's kind of an answerable question, cause one of the persons involved can be anything we imanage him or her to be. I Imanagian my guy to be one bad mother... how do you see your guy? KingSnake.

Man it is you who are a genius! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> not really... i just daydream way to much i think... or i read to many comics... or both. anyway thanks. B) now all we need to do is get LA to listen. Any good with the Jedi Mind trick? KingSnake.

Just FYI, I don't get mad. LoL. Not really. I guess i can come off that way on the boards, cause you can't hear the tone of my voice or my facial expressions. I'm sarcastic. And sometimes i'm blunt, but i'm very rearly angry at anyone. Not even you, dispite the fact your a raging EU fanboy. (again, playful sarcasim. ) Besides, you fanboys have your uses. Like now. Thanks for the list. I'll check into this stuff. My intrest in star wars is growing. I never really got into the comics when i was younger, cause i was avging. 20 different books a month... and couldn't afford to get many more... and i got this thing about coming in in the middle of storys and only getting half the run... I have major OCD, and imcompleteness drives me nutz. but now, i don't read comics like I used to... Most of Marvels stuff really really sucks right now.... DC needs a restart/retelling in the WORST possilbe way... (I'm a firm beliver that, if you can't come up with new titles and heros, at least restart the books from a freash prosptive every DECADE or so... much longer than that and the history is TO confusing...) anyway, long story short, i bassically don't read anything unless it's a special book.. last one i picked up was the sequial to Dark Knight... and it was so bad i almost cried... so i got some money, and a void of time, that was normally filled by other books. So lets fill it shall we? Anyway, thanks for the list, and no hard feelings. KingSnake.

As much as it supprieses me, i agree with you. Dispite the fact i've grown really found of being Reven, i wasn't very happy when i found out who i was. Kind of rips that whole feeling of, being YOU out of the Char... cause you NOT you, you HIM...(if that makes since.) I always wanted a game to work like this... bare with me here.. The game starts, you a baby... found to be force sincitive. This is where you name your Avatar, chosse a look, and a sex. Flash ahead. your a young padwain, in training. Random jedi masters are working with you, training you, and asking you question that lead to detearming your Class, combat style, ect ect ect. maybe you can pick an option to spend more time in saber training then force training and be a Guardian. Maybe depending on how you answer, it'll effect your personally / alliginment. If your a punk, you start closer to netural dark, or if your respectful and such, you more of a light sider. maybe, if different saber combat styles are avalible, you can choses a different master to teach you... or have a different master represend a different feat you start with... same with force powers. the last stage of this sub quest could be you building your first light saber, that way you can make either a single, a Staff, or a single / short for two handed... and chosse the color instead of being locked into one... you know, have like a mini sub quest to start out with, that show's how your Jedi became who he/she is. Than, after all that, you start your accually QUEST. That way, you accually build your Jedi from a baby to what ever age you are when you start. That would add a personal feel to it, i belive. That's what i'd prefur. If not that, a really well writen Char that ISN'T preastablished. I'd hate an RPG made around the OT, cause you know Luke, you know how he turns out, and you pretty much know what you have to do... and what fun is that? KingSnake.

Great words. I agree completely. At last someone said the truth. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It just remends me of the whole, DC VrS Marvel Debate. Who's stronger, Superman or Hulk? Who's a better fighter, Capt. A or Bats? Who's faster, Flazh or Quick Silver..........(I just can't take that one serisoly.) What it boils down to is this. 1st and formost, option. I have my options on why, Superman is stronger, Flash is faster, ect ect ect. Someone else may have differening options. it's fun, for the most part, to debate this stuff, but in the end, WE'LL never really know until. Someone one writes it down and makes a story out if it. And when that happens, the fate of the Char's are in the writers hands. Normally, this kind of crap, for the most part, ends in a draw, or an imcompletee fight, or SOMETHING to keep the debate alive...(sometimes it's just fan boy's fullish pride...) I guess what i'm saying is, there is no "right" answer. anyway, my "right" answer is this. My Reven pawns. he pawns Exar. he pawns Vader. He makes Ulic cry, and pretty much is biggest bad there is... UNTIL, my NEXT Jedi, in TSL, takes his place. LOL. That's my option. My proof is, all in my head, just like everyone elses is. Hehe. On a side note, I'm planning on looking into more Star Wars comics. Where's a good place to start? (like what would you consider, the begening, and how does it progress.) and is this stuff made up into Trade volumes yet, or will I have to go fishing for individual issues? (i hate fishing...) KingSnake.

People (Nur inpertickular) seem to be forgetting one unervical LAW of Comics/Videogame/&Movies heros. That there powers always SCALE to the threat they are facing. My fav. example of this law is Superman. In one comic, you see him bench pressing the freaking moon and shrugging off nukes, in the next, Mongle crack him in the face and you see him wence in pain, and go crashing through a wall. In some stories he has the strength to move planets, in others he struggles to stop some missiles from wiping out a town... Ok. What do i mean by this. We have Darth Vader. GL himself, (hate him if you must, but Star Wars is HIS baby, he is god of it.) has stated that Vader is the most powerful starwar Force users EVER. (I've read it many different places. and i'm to lazy to post a link. But if i'm wrong, plz feel free to correct me.) Ok so Vader is the most powerful. We'll use that as a standered. Did we ever see him.... use force lighting? how about life drain? Empolode a star? steal an entire races life force? No... What did we see him do? a few simple force chokes. hit luke with a few boxes. Block Hans blaster shots with his hand. Ok... and that makes him the BADDEST jedi/sith of all time? No, he's the baddest sith of all time becasue GL said so. We just haven't seen his full power yet, mainly cause he's not had a cause to have to use it yet. obi wan was no threat at his age. he never really want to kill luke anyway. and he totally took the emprior by suprise and finished him off. (Palps for all his sith magics and powers didn't see that one coming? And you think Revens weak cause he didn't see Malek shotting him in the back?) Truth is, we ASSUME Vader and Palpas are as bad as they are, because of what we are told about them, not by what we've SEEN them do. Nothing i've seen them do has been all that IMPRESSIVE. But we are told, and we can see, from how other Char's reactie to them, they'er bad news. Same with Reven. We don't SEE him being a badass. But we get the difenent impression he WAS one. He had the entire jedi consult weting themselves. Malek was to afraid to face in in person. Reven, and a jedi, almost single handledly turned the tide of battle in the mandlerion wars, and defeated an almost unstopplabe army, because of his strenght of will and char. Reven was someone special. Get over it. You may hate him if you must, but WAS powerful, he WAS a force to be reconded with, and I'm sure he'd give Vader a good fight. You don't nesserly have to be more POWERFUL to win a fight, you just have to be smarter. (I'm a batman fan, if you haven't figured it out yet.) To make it simple, i'll brake it down for you. Move hero's and villans will always appere weaker than Video game people. Movies are limited by Budget, Special Effects, and time. Video games hero's won't seem as powerful as Comic or Book heros, cause they are limited, in order to make the game challanging, (if superman games followed the books, then chainsaw weaild tugs would do nothin to you, but they CAN hurt you, becasuse if you couldn't DIE, what challange would there be?) but mainly becasue, comic and book hero's have NOTHING limiting what they can do. This makes them APPEARE more powerful, but that isn't nessarely the case. Put Reven in a comic or book... he may supprise you with what he can do. Besides, in the end, it's really all up to the reader/player/watcher to make the finel dessions about whatthey take away from the expearince. And i think, MY Reven, would out think GL's Vader. Simply becasue i play MY Reven to be very BATMAN like. And we all know... NO ONE can take the BATS out. Period. B) KingSnake.

One person's "lame cosmetics" IS another person's character diversity. Sounds to me like you need to just go and play the PnP. That should floot your boat. No lame cosmetics at all, and all the Char. Diversity you could dream of. KingSnake.

As far as single weapon goes, it's a lightsaber, 2-16 base. 1-10 +4bbd +2bab Solairs W Heart of Guardian 2-12 +4 bab W Heart of Guardian = 5-38 +6 bab +4 bbd weapon. Baragwin is only a 6-36 +5 bab. Very Very close, but the saber has slightly better Damage, an extra +1bab, and allows for Blaster Deflection AND gives a +4 while it's at it. Buy you can only have ONE of them blades, where as you can have two Baragwin's.... ok, easy fix... put the 3 crystles into a saber staff... and you get. 2-20 staff 1-10 2-12 =5-42 +6 bab and +4 bbd Much better than two Baragwins IMO. You also must consider that, the saber also allows for you to use your Jedi Defence, (BBD) and if your a guardian, it allows you to use Force jump. These skills can only be used with a lightsaber. The saber STILL is the top dog weapon in this game. As it should be. KingSnake.

Face and body, yeah, i'd like that. I always make my heros short. (don't ask why. mabye because i see myself as short. LOL.) But in KoToR, my main was alway fairly tall... unless i went scoundrel... which wasn't my fav. starting class. (although they can be made into melee powerhouses with a stun force move, master spd, and level 3 or 4 sneak attack.) As far as face options go... give us more... but I HATE the make your own face options.... i have no artistic talent, and all my made up faces end up looking stupid or deformed... Coures I guess i could let my artiest sister make me a face.... (funny side note. I play CoH ((city of heros)) and made my first guy's look myself. I liked it, but, my second toon, i let her desigin... and wasn't logged on 2 mins before i started getting PM's with complments on how cool I looked.... she's desigened every one of my guys since. LOL.) as far as cloths go... I'd imanage there will end up being one or 2 uber robes... that look the same... so even if it would be nice to edit your cloths at start up... our armor or robes will over right it, so is it really a nessery thing? KingSnake.

well. much like the first game we seem to get to switch classes to a prestage class, which opens up 18 different ways to build the toon... I don't really see that as limiting... it's more than the first. plus, you progress longer... and get more feats and force powers to pick from... how excitly is it limited? I must be missing something. Unless you want to pick from non Jedi classes... which i don't really. (well i guess some free class feats like sneak attack and Uncanny Doudge would be nice... the rest can be bought... of scoundrels luck too. Any others?) KingSnake. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its limiting since all the force classes play the same. There is no significant difference between the guardian and a sentinel. No significant difference between a sentinel or a consular, or even a consular and guardian. As for the prestige classes, each one seems to be the same prestige class except one ios LS focus and the other DS focus. Big freaking deal. As I said, LS and DS are role play options not character creation options. I like to have seen a better and deeper character creation process than what was in KotOR 2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But from what i understand, and i may indeed be wrong, but each prestige class has access to a speciality force powers/feats. which would make them 6 different choices, and 18 different outcomes... more than just a RP aspect. anyway, yeah i guess they don't play ALOT different, but they are different, belive me. From a min max / stats geek point of view, they are VERY different, it's must a matter of, will the differences MATTER than worrie me. will the extra skills the sentenal MATER at all in game play, if so, then you'll see a night and day differenc between them and the other two. will the enimes be more force resistint? if so, you'll see a HUGE difference with the consular over the other 2? Will the enimes be harder melee wize? If so, the extra BAB of the Guardian will be much more noticable. as for the prestage classes, if they accually do have speacil options, be it feats or powers, so long as they are meaningful and useful, it'll add depth to the Char development prossess. IF not, then yeah, I see your point. you see, that was the one problem with KoToR. On paper, the each class had it's own strengths and weaknesses.... and they were apperent, ON PAPER. but the game was so easy, you never SAW the weakeness of any one build. the sentenal and counslers BaB was substantically lower than the guardiens (from a d20 point of view), but it didn't matter, you still clobbered stuff with your DBL bladed saber staff.... the Counsler was much more powerful with the force, but it didn't matter, you still effected the enemies just the same, reguardless of class... and skills...were a joke. So, so long as the new game is HARDER, the differences in the classes should be more obvious, and the game play should be different depending on the class you play. Noticably different. I'm at least giving these guys the benifit of the doubt, and hoping they've made the game harder. If they havent.... well... at least you FEEL really really powerful anyway... KingSnake.

well. much like the first game we seem to get to switch classes to a prestage class, which opens up 18 different ways to build the toon... I don't really see that as limiting... it's more than the first. plus, you progress longer... and get more feats and force powers to pick from... how excitly is it limited? I must be missing something. Unless you want to pick from non Jedi classes... which i don't really. (well i guess some free class feats like sneak attack and Uncanny Doudge would be nice... the rest can be bought... of scoundrels luck too. Any others?) KingSnake.

I've never looked at jedi in classes before, it was kind of a new take for me during KoToR 1. Becasue of that, i always looked for a way to build the "perfect" jedi, balancing saberskill/force powers/skills (yeah even skills). So my person will end up being whatever is the most well rounded Jedi i can comeup with. (i'm a min maxer.) and it prolly WON'T be the Sentinel / Watchmen class, unless they change something, because in KoToR 1, it was, IMO the most useless class in the game. So far, my most balanced Toon in KoToR 1 was a scout 5 guardian 15 build. started with 14 in intel. When i was done, I had a BaB of 36. (single blade) Defence of 36. Force Power LeveL of 36. BBD of 32. And enought skill to succed in every presswasion, fixed HK to the max... pull of the computer skill check on Korobon, see even Deadly Plasma minds, and enought Treat Injury to make LifeSupport packs ROCK. I was quite pleased with that build... Anyway, it'll prolly be a mix of Guardian/Master, or something to that effect. KingSnake.

You forget however that you can't get their criticals down to 5 on a D20, meaning you can do a critical hit with a Baragwain EVERY round for 20-80 damage on anything As for force defence, it's basically useless because the blasters are so crap it isn't even worth taking. If blasters were decent it would be worth it, but it isn't much, in fact probably isn't even any, of a loss. Force jump is there depending on if you're a guardian or not and it is more annoying than useful. Most good min/max builds are typically consulars, because the force powers like force wave are so incredibly good with that +4 DC and high wis/cha items (I got my wisdom in one game to over 30!), ESPECIALLY as light side means you won't even *need* a weapon. You can run around naked and kill just about everything, including Malak. But that is just an aside. Once you add in force valor and the stimulants the baragwains come out on top by a long shot (just as you have done yourself). I had bastila with the best lightsaber crystals in the game and two lightsabers with the best crystals available and +4 base strength (giving her 15 or 16 I believe). Even with stimulants and force powers on I still outdamaged her by around 40-60 damage a round. It is also easier (and cheaper) to get two fully upgraded baragwain assault blades than two lightsabers with decent crystals (meaning heart of the guardian and the other one, which I forget about because it isn't that great). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I might be wrong. (it happens) But the MAX Crit Range possible is a 11-20, and that's with a keen weapon and Master Critial skill. That's Basically a 50 50 chance for a crit. So with master speed and master crit. you get's 3 shots at massive damage, at 50 / 50 odds. Them ARE great odds, and your right, you'd prolly come away with more more damage.... and in this game, with it being as easy as it is, the - 6 (or 5?) to defence they Master Crit gives you, plus the powers you give up for using a sword... pretty much don't mean crap to you... so i guess your right, Them 2 blades would prolly avg out to more damage then my light saber. (ok no prolly, they would) That's one thing i didn't like about KoToR. It was to easy, and the penitalies that each Feat carried was pretty much meaning less at the end of the game. And there was no REAL way to make a single blade Jedi SHINE. I hope this is fixed for the second game. KingSnake.

This is the theory I currently ascribe to. Otherwise the balance would be absolutely horrendous. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think they use the force to give the blade balance, and force. It would make since, and it would explain why non force users can't ever truly master the thing. (although, i've read there was a non force sensitive jedi before...) Anyway, I belive the Jedi, use the force to kind of push there blades... I mean, the crystals they use do have special force proprites, and i've read somewhere that a Jedi can littilerey feel his lightsaber, like it's an extension of himself. That's what i think. :D KingSnake.

Master TWF gave you -1 attack and -1 defense IIRC. Master Dueling gives you +3 and +3, for a +4/+4 difference between the two. That's not trivial. A Guardian is probalby best used with a double saber, flurry, and master TWF. He has more vitality (less need for high defense), and he almost always scores a hit at higher levels no matter what (less affected by to-hit penalty). He also has the feats to spend. Combine it with Master Flurry and Jedi Master Speed, and you have an anti-Sith Cuisinart. A Sentinel or especially a Consular has less viatality to spare and a worse chance to hit, so that +3/+3 starts to look really good, not to mention that they have fewer feats to spend to get up to Master TWF in the first place. Also, if you are going with Master Critical Strike, you are probably more concerned with your odds to hit than your number of attacks, since every hit is 2x damage +2-12 +stun, and you want your *first* attack to hit so the enemy is disabled immediately. Also, the critical strike feats have a bigger penalty to defense than Flurry, which you will be eager to negate. And of course double sabers have an awful critical range. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> slight correction. with TWF mastery, you get a -2 -2 in you man and off hands, defences is not effected. Now, if you use a balance weapon in the off hand, as a saber staff, or short saber, you get a +2 +0 , which, in the end, means your BaB is 0 in the main hand, or no penetaily at all, and a -2 in the off hand. So the difference between Dualing and TWF is, with Dualing, you get a +3 BaB on your main hand strick, and +3 to defence, but TWF gets one extra attack at -2 bab. That's the trade off. Problem is, enemies are to easy to hit, and die to easily for that to matter. That's not to say you can't build some impressive single blade fighters... I made one, a scoundrel/guardian, that, could kill the End game rancors with one powered up force jump each. (Master Speed+Master Valor) A force wave to stun, so my Sneak attack bounes kiced in, and everything died in one Flurry... (even Bastaila, but i couldn't stun Malak... grr.) So i was pretty bad, problem was, had i taken TWF instead of dualing, and used a saber staff, i'd be even MORE powerful... with almost no noticalbe difference in defence, cause stuff died WAY to quick. KingSnake. (Besides style, i can't think of one practical reason to use one saber over 2. on paper it looks like a better defencive build, but it just doesn't WORK that way.)

Don't know much about swordsmenship, just wondering, (and not looking to start a fight, i'm just honestly wondering) why you belive a "light" saber's blade has weight to it? When i watch the movies, the way the spin there sabers in circles... i have a hard time understand HOW they do it so easily if the blades doesn't have any weight to add momenton to the spin...(I hope i spit that out right.) Seems to be, the way the jedi fight, there blades would need to be weighted... somehow... perhaps they use the force to add mommention to the blades... since the saber are made of a special force crystal... mabye they have a special attatchemnt to them and can accually "push" the blade to add beef to there attack... don't know... just thinking out loud. KingSnake.

Which is why ranting over the release date should stop because it's not constructive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well it really wasn't all about the release date, now was it. Anyway, since Feargus' post things are a bit clearer and because these guys work so hard I'm thinking about getting this one, not really sure, but if I do, it's still the last LA game ever. Those guys have lost my business, and I've had more LA games than anything else, since when I was a kid I got x-wing for x-mas. It was really good, and it had that little magazine/catalog to work on my impressionable little mind, so I got that series and the jedi knight series and a few others along the way. No longer. Put that in your pipe and smoke it LA <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you will have earned a great deal of my respect if you can accually do what you say. (for all it's worth) I just have a hard time beliving that if the next (after Kotor 2 that is) KoToR is the end all Jedi game, or the next Jedi Knight game (if there is one, and god i hope so) redefines LightSaber combat, will you really be able to stick to it? If you can, I admire you, your a stronger man then I. (but then again, i haven't really had a mad on with LA, or ANY game developers for that matter, well, I was livied about the Lunar games being delayed... oh, about 3 or 4 years by workingdesigns... but i got over it once they were relased and enjoyed my games. LOL) KingSnake.

coming from a big star wars fan, and a HUGE Rurouni Kenshin fan, it's the single blade all the way. I just wish the stupid game gave better perks for going the single blade route. The +3+3 for dualing was nice and all... IF you ever accually NEEDED it. I don't think it's possible to MISS at the end of the game, and your hitting so hard, nothing lives long enought for your defence to matter.... that's the ONE thing i really hated about KoToR, there was no REAL advantage in using the single saber... it was always better in almost all cercomstances to use 2 or a staff... My only pet peeve... but i still used my single blade... either Turquize or Purple. KingSnake.

a hateful little man you are. I'm now convinced your a troll, only looking to argue. at first i figured you were just a Star Wars Freak, (and you are) but now i'm convince your only in this to be a punk, so i'm done with you. Move along, nothing to see here. KingSnake.

OH, BTW, I'm almost positive Jade Empire will be ported to PC. So no worries. KingSnake.