Osvir

From what I deduce, it seems PE is going to pay most tribute to Baldur's Gate & Icewind Dale. A sequel however (PE2), could perhaps introduce more industrialism into its setting, and not only continue the story from the original, but also evolve the world story (and pay tribute to Arcanum). In doing so, the list of games in current development (the current top-down/isometric cRPG) could look something like this: Links are to the Kickstarter projects, many of them are finished and all of them have reached their funding goals. High-Fantasy (& possibly Steampunk-ish?): - Project: Eternity = Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale & Darklands Tribute (0 Seconds to Go) (- Project: Eternity 2 = Tribute to Arcanum whilst keeping the above)* - Divinity: Original Sin = Divine & Beyond Divinity Tribute (16 Days to Go) - Shroud of the Avatar = Ultima** (0 Seconds to Go) Science & Spiritual & Metaphysical: - Tides of Numenera = Planescape: Torment Tribute (0 Seconds to Go) Futuristic: - Shadowrun Returns = Shadowrun (SNES) Tribute & Sequel (0 Seconds to Go) - Wasteland 2 = Wasteland Tribute & Sequel (& old-school Fallout Tribute***?) (0 Seconds to Go) * Just a "wish" & vision & possibility Like swatting 3 flies with 1 hit: 1. PE sequel 2. Arcanum tribute 3. progression of the Eternity world ** Does not look like it's going to be top-down (more like 3rd Person) but I felt like including it into the list~ *** Honestly, I haven't followed the development progress of Wasteland 2 but what I can say is that I hope Fallout 4 (or the next one in the Fallout franchise) has options to move the camera into a top-down perspective with a Free Camera mode and a point+click system. A hybrid system, hopefully, something that allows both First Person and Top-Down (Something I feel that both New Vegas and Fallout 3 would have done nothing but benefit from doing). Dragon Age: Origins benefitted a ton by allowing you to have the "over the shoulder" perspective and allowing the player to zoom out (PC version). ^That paragraph has nothing to do with what I wanted to say: Wasteland 2 doesn't strike me as a Fallout-esque game from what I've seen on the pictures and the little I've read. It really looks like its own IP and that it has nothing to do with Fallout except that both are post-apocalyptic settings. That is intended as a compliment btw, Wasteland 2 looks awesome on its own. In my opinion: Wasteland is Wasteland. Fallout is Fallout. TL;DR: Ramblings. The point I wished to convey is that PE2 could introduce more steampunk & industrial elements based on time progression between PE1 and PE2. PE1 = Represents late 1500's (High or Late Middle Ages (Eternity Wikia); Technology in P:E) PE2 = Could represent the more Arcanum represented Era: 1760-1850's (Industrial Revolution (Wikipedia))

I think you have some good ideas here, though I want to air some of my old ideas regarding Fast Traveling on the World Map. If there are no horses the below wouldn't be possible, unless there is some other substitute creature that can be the "Horse". I am all for "No mounted combat". Strictly speaking Fast Travel on the World Map: [Walking] on World Map = 8 hours to the closest location [Horse*] on the World Map = 4 hours to the closest location [Flying] on the World Map = 2 hours to the closest location [Teleport] on the World Map = Instant * Horse = Fantasy Creature, simply a mount that takes you to the location faster than walking. Why would any of these be interesting though? If there are "Events" that run on time, getting there a couple of hours earlier might be something good. In essence: Getting there in time you might be able to save the village, whilst not getting there in time you lose the village.

There is also the question of counter-magic. Is there some way the Player and AI can counter Death Spells? Because then it isn't a question if it hits or not, it is a question if the Player or AI defended themselves properly. Power struggles. 1. AI casts "Beam of Death" 2. Player casts "Portal", places 1 in front of the Player and 1 behind the AI 3. AI casts "Absorb", absorbs the energy of the beam, amps it up, shoots it back with greater force 4. Player casts "Shield", the beam burns through the shield like nothing and disintegrates the Player. A bit of a "Who dies?"-ping pong "mini-game" (in a sense). This is probably hard to design but it would be awesome on so many levels. Leave it in the Player's hand to defend themselves against Death Spells. In this way it does not become "It might hit and kill you instantly, or it might not hit at all", it becomes "If it hits you you are dead, but if you block/dodge it you survive". It still has the power level of over 9'000, but you can do something about it.

I agree. Baldur's Gate has the most interesting method. However, I believe that a Baldur's Gate+TES hybrid could be interesting as well. "Weapon Level" or "Weapon Experience" more akin to how "Combat Experience" is handled in many RPG's (get experience when you take down your enemies, not when you chop at them). Weapons having their own D&D-like experience tables (Level 1: 0/100, Level 2: 100/1'000, Level 3: 1'000/10'000 etc. etc.) Yay/This is what I am advocating: Take down bandit = 15 Weapon Experience (Mechanically speaking: "Combat Experience") Nay/This is not what I am advocating: Chop at bandit = Weapon Experience (TES)

@Lephys: There is one way to deal with it, and that is to make up some specific "lore" for the specific deathspell. So "Conjure Water" (although drowning someone from the inside sounds cool, it doesn't quite have the same tone as summoning, pretty much, a bullet into someone's brain). Concept: - Summon Death Pebble A wicked and cruel ability, most foul and dispised by any high standard Wizard order. The Wizard solidifies the essence of the Soul within a target, inside their pinal gland to be more specific. About the size of a pebble. The result is swift death. It is most forbidden, only one has been known to use it in practice (the creator of this wicked abomination). By gathering, manipulating and compressing several forces of several souls, the Wizard does not only commit an atrocity to one entity, but a multitude of souls. @Moridin84: In my opinion, viewing their force powers, I view them as Wizards. As an organization and as an ideology, yes Paladin would fit well. Strictly/Objectively speaking about their ability to bend the Force, then I view them as Wizards. Force-Push, Force-Choke, Force-Lightning, all those abilities are quite magical.

^Spinning further on that Lephys, and going into off-topic domain: For some reason I think that idea with the pebble can have a touch of depth. It has a pretty major "Dark Arts" or "Forbidden Arts" tone to it. Something that must overcome the other recipents Soul in order to be able to physically summon stuff inside them, in turn perhaps even violating some sort of (example) "Law of Souls". Take a novice Soul against a master Soul for instance (A low level Wizard vs a high level Fighter). The pebble would be unsuccessful. Now turn it around, a high level Wizard (a Master) against a low level Fighter (a Novice). Why not? Granted that the P:E world allows for such a thing to happen. Similarly, a Cipher manipulating Souls to such an extent that it could rip someone's soul out of their bodies entirely. Arthas kind of does this to Sylvanas in WarCraft III: Reign of Chaos. About Portal stuff opening up behind the enemy archer, for balance sake... shouldn't the portal stay up for a little bit? This way the enemy archer can say "Hey! I can shoot right back at ya through this thing!". It could make stuff less overpowered. Eventually, the Wizard could perhaps even be able to teleport full characters, with a risk to cause permanent injury (In essence: "Loss of Limb". Strictly statistical). TL;DR; Off-topic stuff: Speaking about high-level Soul magic stuff, teleportation and, I guess, presenting a solution to what could work as a "Summoning stuff inside someone" (Forbidden Arts).

Just out of curiosity... how often does a Jedi force throw his/her Lightsaber? It's quite rare I think? It happens once or twice in the movies and while it's in most game where you play a Jedi it's normally useless. Exactly, that's the point I am trying to make. A Jedi can be seen as a Wizard who fights close-combat most of the time, with the ability to throw their sabers at a distance. They are still close-combat oriented first and foremost. What I am flirting with is: Could the Grimoire function as a primitive fantasy/magical medieval (close-combat) Lightsaber for a "type of" Wizard? Additional, stand-alone thought: A Yoda... err.. an Orlan melee Wizard would be awesome to roll with ;D

Well, @OP, I agree with you about DA:O somewhat. However, I see a lot of potential usage of a multiple currency system (which feels like it is never used). Mainly the use of "Social Status" & "Reputation". A line from Breaking Bad (TV series) inspires me: "Anyone can be poor, but you have to learn to be rich". Being rich warrants attention, having lots of money is a sign of power, power and attention causes conflict. In this way I can think that copper, silver and gold can be quite interesting. Do you spend your "gold" wisely or do you throw it around you? Does the non-lethal/pacifist get through the crowd easier by acting less like a rich man, and more like a common man? "Hiding in plain sight". Are there merchants that can be seen as "trusted sources", someone you can spend your gold on, someone that doesn't shout "Hey this guy has gold!"? Kind of... like-a-"Mike"-but-Merchant character. Specifically speaking about the Mike character from Breaking Bad. Another question I have been curious about: How economically harsh is the world of P:E? "Hierarchy of Currency": Just thoughts of what it could be Copper - The Commoner's Coin (Low-Class) Silver - The Merchant's Coin (Mid-Class) Gold - The Noble's Coin (Upper-Class) Though then the question is, how do you earn each one individually? How do you spend it? And on what? Does a Merchant who sells a sword for 1 silver and 10 copper accept your pay of 110 copper or does he kick you out? How do you trade between currencies? How do I "upgrade" copper into silver? Into gold? If I don't have silver for the sword, can I then perhaps buy it for 150 copper instead? If I have 2 silver, does the merchant gladly take 2 silver or does he give 90 copper back? Again, what kind of Social "Status" does 2 silver have versus 200 copper? It gets intricate (and imo intruiging), I believe it could make a very big difference in terms of immersion and in-depth World story (I wish to separate "World Story" and "Main Story" by a lot here, I think it gets easier to picture the perspective *shrug* and I also want to put an emphasis on [World] story here). EDIT: What type of Social Status/Reputation Effects does lots of money have versus having almost none? Can you finish the game/story with little gold and well-placed/wise buys and less "hoarding" just as much as you can finish it if you do hoard and get as much gold as possible? What impact does each have on the rest of the game? Does anything change? Is it wise to have lots of gold or does that change anything in content? The less gold I have, I get other, more "underground" pathways forward? What I am thinking here is kind of: - Lots of Coin, the Nobility takes note of you, you get into the Mansion by invite (gets hired for Quest). - Little Coin, you take note of the Nobility, you get into the Mansion by disguise (robbery, stumbles into Quest). Similarly: - Lots of Coin: Bandits chase you. Assassin's. Gangsters etc. etc. people shout your name. Beggars annoy you for coin. - Little Coin: You are the Assassin, you are the Gangster. Or you are simply a Rogue. A devious sneaky shadow that comes in, then leaves, no one even saw you. Someone else gets the blame. You can walk through crowds without hearing your name shouted at you. I honestly believe that "Coin" could be one way to manage the Lethal Playthrough vs the Non-Lethal Playthrough because: 1. Lots of Coin = More Power, More Attention = More Physical Conflict 2. Little Coin = Less Power, Less Attention = Less Physical Conflict

Just out of curiosity... how often does a Jedi force throw his/her Lightsaber?

1. How would a massive book with a bayonet attached be anything but comically cumbersome and ineffective? Concept 1: Yes, in a sense. What I meant really was a blade that requires the Wizard to be in proximity to the Grimoire. So it is still very much close-combat. But like a Jedi with his Lightsaber could do a "Force throw" as well. Concept 3: Haven't painted it yet but I thought of one more which is practically a combination of Concept 1 & Concept 2. The Wizard could perhaps open a rift behind an enemy, and stick his sword into the book and hit the enemy from far away like that. Oh I dunno I would have to draw this to show what I mean I think. 2. Fighters can't typically (or ever, to my knowledge,) throw their sword at an enemy like a modern toy boomerang that returns on command. Conjuring a spectral sword of some kind is not analogous to a wizard equipping a sword and plate armor. And why would the wizard in question drop their treasured grimoire (it has been established that the things are the crux of magic usage in the P:E world,) on the ground in the first place? 3. By the by, I don't think we need any more "visual aids." I do believe it's reasonable to assume most readers are familiar with the concept of portals, dimension doors, wormholes and the like. 1. Well, as seen in concept 1 I was thinking about it in a way where the book is hovering in mid-air in front of the Wizard (In essence: The Wizard wouldn't be holding the book at all). I personally think it could be an awesome way of handling a type of Wizard with a Sword. I want to highlight that further: A type of Wizard with a Sword, that is not excluding what I think people are asking for, a Wizard holding a sword in one hand and having the Grimoire in the other hand, or maybe even no Grimoire at all. The Grimoire is just 1 medium is it not? A Wizard would be able to cast spells without a spellbook as well? 2. Fighters can't typically throw their swords indeed, but my statements weren't about Fighters, it was about Wizards. I can see a Wizard throw a sword like a "boomerang" by the use of magic. 3. About "visual aids", I need it because it makes it easier for me to explain and convey what I think and it makes it a lot easier (for me) to present some of my concepts. Some things I have trouble writing out in words, or I just stumble over words. It is easier for me sometimes to just draw a picture.

Concept 1: Yes, in a sense. What I meant really was a blade that requires the Wizard to be in proximity to the Grimoire. So it is still very much close-combat. But like a Jedi with his Lightsaber could do a "Force throw" as well. Concept 3: Haven't painted it yet but I thought of one more which is practically a combination of Concept 1 & Concept 2. The Wizard could perhaps open a rift behind an enemy, and stick his sword into the book and hit the enemy from far away like that. Oh I dunno I would have to draw this to show what I mean I think.

Further explaining and more (new) ways of "Wizards with Swords". Concept 1: The Grimoire is hovering in mid-air, and either the Grimoire Blade is a unit by itself (which can be controlled and moved as a unit, the Wizard would be static/channeling for it to work). Concept 2: The Wizard opens a magical rift and the Warrior sticks his hand through it and out of the book the blade appears. I do love Steiner's and Vivi's "Magic Sword" combination, but I've been curious if there are more things you can do with it than "Set the sword ablaze!". EDIT: I can totally see Concept 2 as something tactical, an enemy Rogue appears at your flank or in a position where the Wizard is vurnerable, in this situation a spell that allows the Fighter to "extend" his help (partially... and literally) could be a savior.

Update from Torment Devs and they marked it as [NOT PLANNED]. All good by me

"Well fought, men! It was a fine battle, but despite all odds, we conq-What's that noise? Anyone else hear tha-Oh god, worms! They're huge! They're stealing the corpses! Close call, glad they didn't grab the lot of u-OH GOD, THE LOOT! DAMNIT! NO! SOMEONE GRAB THEM! NO NO NO! Shovels! Now! We need shovels, fast! Move, you idiots, move!" Something that a Digging mechanic could use every now and then? (as in, rarely & prompted) Could totally see it happening at some point in the game, in some murky scary cave battling a horde of Goblins, then realizing that the Goblins weren't fighting you to fight you, they were fighting you to get past you and escape from this "horror".

Hi! It got a new project page up: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/grimoire-forever/ I have seen this before posted, but I just wanted to endorse it as I think it looks awesome & the history of it (some guy working on it for... 17 years was it!?). There's a demo for it as well on the Indiegogo page. EDIT: The Demo is awesome :D just my first quick impression.

Quick-fire thought: What about a Grimoire Sword? The Grimoire itself being a "Hilt", in essence, and the Sword (Blade really) is some spawned magical stuff sticking out of the book. Though, that'd be a "type of" Wizard.

^That as well. That's the type of "Link" I am talking about. And although it is debatable, I think the Demon Cult and Demon fall into that category as well in the same way as the: - Painting in Numenera - Area in Eternity It's the same thing, in my perspective of how I am viewing this idea.

Someone did an immersion mod for Baldur's Gate where you start off as a little kid in Candlekeep. I liked the sentiment of it and I grew way closer to the game thanks to it, but it was a quite a bore. You were stuck to almost meaningless chore Quests added with a movement speed of a Baldur's Gate child (they have slower movement speed). Took forever to complete. What would have been fun with such a prologue would've been to explore different classes and generate your creation like that, take this as an example: * Go to Hull, he will train you with the sword. If you choose this you get a System Shock type of way of progression (where it teleports to the next section "You are now older"). You could go to Gorion to become more of a Mage, the Temple to become a Priest, a Thief if you do tricks with Imoen etc. etc. Maybe you could do this 3 times. * Child (10-15) * Young (15-20) * Mature (20-25) Each time you'd get a chance to specialize yourself. Take Warrior the first time, then take Wizard the second time, then Warrior again. Depending on how you do it you'd get different classes and bonuses (A different form of "Would you like to answer 10 questions and generate your class that way?"). However, this is unrelated wishes to P:E as I think Obsidian mentioned you would be able to pick your age at character creation. Unless there's something like this, wherein the Tutorial area is a choice of Character Generation: - "Would you like to Create your character using the Tutorial?" - "Would you like to skip the Tutorial and generate your character sheet?" - "Would you like to answer 10 questions?" This way, the Tutorial could be a way to generate a character's early days, when you're done you could pick your age by more choices "Joined a Mercenary band for X years->[Event] Happens". For even more depth, depending on what the "Event" is, your character could perhaps even use this "Mercenary Experience" in dialogue such as: "I used to be a General god dammit! Now no one knows what or who I am!?", it'd personalize the experience but I fear that it would require TONS of work so maybe not. Just putting it out there.

For immersion factors, it can work as simple as a God sucking up the flesh/soul/entity/being or whatever of the fallen one in an "instance" so to speak. Perhaps not Final Fantasy styled where it directly "disappears" but like in Baldur's Gate, if you leave the area and come back the bodies are gone (I think they are gone after a little while if you walk around a bit as well). But yeah, it can be easily be explained as some underworld God that feeds on bodies or whatnot. Or souls. Or magic. Or the Project: Eternity physical earth~ Tons of stuff that can be used to add the immersion factor and "explain" why they disapper.

"PTE" might be something of the short form of the final title. As seen in Update 43: Thought: Parchment It is not used by any video game company (as far as I know from my googling around) for a title. In the same way that "Elder Scrolls" generates titles (I, II, III, IV, V etc. etc.) this could work well for something like a "Parchment". Though, it's pretty much a rip-off. Parchment: Tenants of Eternity (PTE) or maybe even Tenant: Parchment of Eternity (TPE) (another way to write it, "The Dweller: Eternity on an 'Old-Piece-of-Paper'" xD) Definitions of a tenant. (Ten-ant, Tenant). In context: An occupier of eternity, dweller of eternity, someone who inhabits eternity. Parchment runs pretty bad on my tongue though, I can close my eyes and imagine TotalHalibut & AngryJoe say it and I think it would sound pretty good (and generally any reviewer saying it, but my swedish accent makes it feel weird & sound weird. I dunno), it would never work well with a dark Trailer voice (does anything though?).

^That.

2 more thoughts that's related to this thread: #1. The most important one. Companionship. So the joke is about some friends taking a walk some years ago and this "thing" about Companionship starts cracking the friends up and they burst out in laughter. Later, one of the friends make a dubstep song about it, which this song is a tribute to. Just felt like sharing it Source to the Numenera thread is in the OP. Siilk wrote a great & reasonable response #2. People asked quite some time ago about "Lovecraftian" stuff in P:E, I wouldn't know too much about it but I get it that Cthulhu and everything else is up for grabs and anyone can use it in any of their works. I am flirting a little bit with "Why Lovecraft when there's an opportunity for something entirely new?". I know that it is already established stuff that gets a lot of endorsement across the internet. The question I am begging to get answered (figuratively) is in essence: "What about some entirely new stuff?". The opportunity exists now for Avellone and Ziets to mark both of the games with cool content that could overlap, and furthermore perhaps even into the future (like Lovecraft). Instead of (example!) Cthulhu references in Eternity and possibly Numenera, how about some Avellone+Ziets references? Granted that they would find something like that interesting and not pressuring.

Aaah, what I meant with fireball being subtle is... 99.9% of both games is -not fireball-, 0.1% of the game is -fireball-. It gets subtle with the whole picture in mind.

So, when is Assassin's "Gate" coming out?

Subtility, for sure. That was the entire thing I was trying to convey with the Fireball that I posted over at the Numenera forums. I wrote it out like it was cast over at Numenera, but it manifested in these forums. If you look at Numenera's thread that I posted (objectively) you'll only see the spell being cast, and if you look at this thread you will see the Fireball. Looking at the Fireball here only, it makes no sense. Looking at it over at Numenera it makes no sense either. But looking at the whole picture, both of them, it suddenly makes sense. Why? It connects and because that's how I designed it. That's the explanation, and the catalyst and creator or "guide" was me. In the same way that Avellone or Ziets can be guides for the exact same thing with different context. Example 1: Action into Consequence (A) Context/Dimension/Numenera A: Fireball is being cast... chanted really. It wouldn't have any effect. It doesn't appear. © [unexplainable Black Hole Dimension]: Passes through the Borderless Borders. (B) Context/Dimension/Eternity: Fireball appears. Example 2: Mirror-effect and Yin/Yang (A) Context/Dimension/Numenera: Bakkuba is an insane person. © [unexplainable Black Hole Dimension) (B) Context/Dimension/Eternity: Bakkuba is a sane person. Let's turn it around with the demon cult. There's a crazy occult Demon Cult in Numenera, they are praying to what everyone thinks is just crazy fables and dumb stuff, but in Eternity a Demon exists that is a direct reference to the prayers. By the suspense of "belief" that it is being summoned, the projection is being summoned into "The Link". But it never appears within Numenera, which could be something the Player AND the Demon Cult themselves could question "Hey... Hey!! We have been chanting this stuff and nothing is happening! Why do we believe? What is the purpose? What is the meaning of life?" etc. etc. they don't even know if it works, they simply blindly "believe" in ignorance. The Demon doesn't question its existence it simply is because of the prayers, it wouldn't know that it exists because of that. In Numenera no one would know that the Demon exists and it would never transcend the "Border", it simply exists on the other side of the "Border". "The Link" is both a Border/Wall & a Connector. EDIT: One more take at the demon stuff. It would have to harmonize with both world's by themselves, but could be linked at the same time. You play Numenera: You meet Demon Cult, they are viewed as crazy-folk. They fit into the Numenera world by themselves and harmonize with that world as it is. You play Eternity: You meet Demon, it is powerful, you take it down (or befriend it? Whatever). It fits into the Eternity world and harmonize with that world as it is, and is presumed to be summoned by the effort of demon summoners in Eternity (they could summon from "The Link" that the Numenera Cult has projected into "The Link"). You play both games: "Awesome!" in my opinion. But that's only my opinion. Furthermore, it gets subtle and makes little sense, for the whole of the concept if only 1 game is played (makes sense within the 1 game), and if you play both games it does get more apparent, for the whole of the concept. That goes for in-jokes as well. 1. Numenera (= Demon Cult makes sense in Numenera) 2. Eternity (= Demon makes sense in Eternity) 3. The Unity (= Demon Cult+Demon makes sense in Unity)