Osvir

Yes it is idealistic and naive. But reading your responses makes me feel you don't quite understand my vision. Instead I'd like to give it a go in practice instead of discussing it in theory. I've made a thread over in the forum I created with a simple question (for starters), "What type of game would you like to see?". Feel free to join in and see where it goes. I don't really have any more theoretical points to discuss really.

Because you're talking about codex. "Codex == PokeDex" In Mass Effect it makes sense due to technology "You have a new update!". In Dragon Age: Origins it doesn't quite make sense now that I think about it. "You defeated a Hurlock! Suddenly you know everything about it!". I hope Eternity has nothing of it. In fact, as I am on the subject. Two things: A) Abd al-Hazir and Deckard Cain from Diablo III. Blizzard used an interesting mechanic, but it's still the same as Pokemon Dragon Age: Origins "You killed a scavenger! Here's some magical information out of nowhere!". Nonetheless, it'd be interesting to meet and greet a character in-game who has this information. Maybe a librarian you can recruit to your Stronghold. Someone who "unlocks" a section in your Codex which then allows you to "Catch em all" (so to speak) and get instant feedback or access previous entries of places you've been and enemies you've defeated and weaknesses and strengths. Imagined plot-ish: - Defeat an enemy - No entry - Meet librarian~scholar or w/e - Unlock Beastiary - Read about the enemy you defeated - Defeat an enemy - Gain an entry B) Free-Form Journal Option. Something I've endorsed and will continue to do. Don't get any entries. Write em yourself! I believe it adds realism as well as adds some "Traveling/Survival"-Simulation Elements. Same thing with quests. Books wouldn't be "blank", but could instead serve as instruments to learn more about an area before venturing into it, and then scribbling down notes in your own journal. Play as the scholar Abd al-Hazir, don't use a PokeDex an automatic Codex/Journal.

but... why give a ****? so it won't feel like Planescape. how is that a bad thing? I didn't like Torment for Planescape, D&D, and most certainly not for combat. I liked it for its characters and plot First of all: Ditto. Second: I don't care if it's RT or TB. I'm just analyzing and presenting hypothesis. I don't mind either TB or RT, I like both systems but they are very different in terms of perspective, pacing and experience. It determines how I move my characters in the world. RT = More freedom TB = More restriction

I have not read the entirety of this thread but I did read some of it some time ago (a week ago maybe? It has grown) Anyways. This is my opinion on it. I don't think Turn-Based is initially a bad thing, and for this case particularly it might be wise (economically and resourcefully) for inXile to go with a Turn-Based system. But in a "spiritual" successor sense (Infinity Engine~) it might not be so wise. More stuff~ Questions and hypotethical/analytical answers: Q - Will it feel like an Infinity Engine game with Turn-Based? A - No. But maybe it will feel Fallout-, ToEE-, Arcanum-, or Wasteland 2-ish (Most likely the latter). Q - Will it feel like a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment? A - Maybe? Plot-wise, World-wise, philsophically, maybe. Q - Will it be cheaper for inXile to use Turn-Based? A - Probably, they have a Turn-Based system for Wasteland 2 they can use for Numenera. In essence: They can spend more resources on world-building and make Numenera bigger and not worry too much about their combat system. Q - Will you want to play Numenera right after you've played Wasteland 2? A - Maybe, do you like Turn-Based games? Chances are that Players will have spent energy on Wasteland 2, and if Numenera has too much resemblance in its Turn-Based system, it'll feel like playing the same game but with different art assets. Q - Could a hybrid system function? RT elements combined with popular TB elements? (Real Time with Pause & Turn Based Hexgrids?) A - I HAVE NO IDEA I AM JUST THROWING AN IDEA OUT WHILST FLAILING MY ARMS SQUAWKING LIKE A BIIRDY! KWAA KWAA!

Torment, Eternity & Wasteland and other games on Kickstarter is made by the developers. I am sure they are inspired and take some points from the community, but most of the stuff is made by them. They not only have the final say but they also create much (if not all) of the lore, classes, spells, abilities, combat system, health, stamina, areas, plots, quests, characters and so on and so forth. The developers create (approximate, hypothetical and symbolic number) 95-99% of all the content, from written idea to physical representation. Opinion on the Turn-Based dealio~Off-Topic (linking this to the appropriate thread) The developer is right in choosing to go with Turn-Based for Numenera for some reasons (The most obvious one, Wasteland 2 is Turn-Based, inXile already has a system which they can polish & adjust further on Torment. It'd be cheaper for inXile). But will it feel like Planescape: Torment if Numenera has Turn-Based? Probably not. Eternity will most likely feel like the old-school Infinity Engine games thanks to their RTwP system. I do fear that Numenera will feel like Wasteland 2 instead of Infinity Engine. If they go full on with the Turn-Based system I do hope that it at least feels like Temple of Elemental Evil. To answer your question: It would be the community' "game" in this case. The developer could adjust and modify some things that they understand better, but if the Community would say "We want RTwP" and the Developer then suddenly decides to change it to Turn-Based that'd be wrong. If the Kickstarter gets funded it'd get funded on the idea that the Community decided on. My idea is not the same thing as what Eternity, Wasteland 2 & Torment is. My idea is opposite of that. - Obsidian creates a Kickstarter "We want to make this game! Do you want it? Fund!" - My Community Idea "We want this game made! Do you want to create it? Okay! Let's see if more people are willing to fund it!" there is no risk involved. The Developers don't even need to dedicate themselves to it until the Kickstarter is actually successful. Of course, potential time schedules would have to be set. When a Developer is asked "We've created this world and a lot of people endorse it, you want to make a game out of it?" a very important question to ask is "Do you have time to create it if it gets successful?". In case of the scenario that the Kickstarter is not successful the Developers can continue doing whatever they had in mind in the first place. The "People"/Community hire a Developer Team by the use of Kickstarter~ that's the jist of my idea. Now, imagine if you could hire the Government by the use of Kickstarter Kickstarter is a way to give much power to the people, in theory and in practice. You just need a space to discuss the ideas you want to pitch to the developer/government/authority/talent first. The whole community idea I am suggesting is an idea where when the game idea is pitched to developer it is 90% complete in text-form. The only thing left to do would be to create areas in a level editor, create NPC's, create all 3D objects, create all dialogues and the physical world-building. Another example: You want a painting to be done, but you are bad at painting. You have this very clear idea that you can translate to a painter and you ask him to do it for you, he'll get paid for it too. You are well aware that he has his own imagination and that your vision won't be his vision. But he could get the general "feel" that you wish to project. Now... does the painter get to decide the shape of a tree in the picture? I personally say yes. But would he be allowed to change that tree into a bush? Of course he would be allowed too, but it wouldn't be what I envisioned nor what I wanted.

But instead, turn around and look at this very board in the Project: Eternity section and you'll see the opposite. I guess World-Building is a more proper term than "gamemaking". This has nothing to do with the Developer picking anything, quite the opposite. The community creates the world, lore, mechanics, rules any developer can feel free to join in on the discussion and add their say to it as well. I do have thoughts on moderation, though I can't quite say that it'd be a "final say" in any way but more or less a "Stop"-counter. "No more discussion on this topic! We've reached a general consensus, next topic" kind of. People would be free to continue the discussion on whatever it is but the next "Event" for world-building would begin as well. If there's a "split" (e.g. competition) or two groups begin to form (one likes one thing and the other side likes another thing), simply open up 2 categories/forums and moderate both of them side-by-side. Moderation in this case = Guiding hand. Idea is to create a world & game concept, give to developer, gain merits, next idea. More or less community pre-production.

Adding in another layer here for those curious: Ghost Writer (Wikipedia page), might explain a little bit what I am trying to do. Conceptually I am looking for a "Snakes on a Plane" sort of deal, but with video game enthusiasts instead. Kind of like this game idea too.

Or a sophisticated visionary design team that lacks skills and tools. You mean a bunch idea guys? Yes. But the information is also out there, so a bunch of idea guys could do the proper research of all costs included as well. What types of personell would be required, who to hire, priorities, set up a proper documentation on the development process and also present that "This is what would be required to make the game, apart from the funding". Asset concepts. Materials. When you're pitching to a developer, the most important thing is an assurance from the community to fund and support the project. Because whatever projections they make will change based on the funds they have and their projected sales. Of course. But supply and demand is also important. Say there's 50 people that envision this game on a forum, not very many but it's a start. A) Community: Discuss and debate a game. Anyone can join in on the discussion, but there will be "milestones" of some sort. - 1st: What type of game? Let's say an RPG. Market this to "event" to various other forums and sites where appropriate (RPGWatch, RPGCodex, Obsidian, Bioware and so on). Get more people on board. Maybe the board rises to 100 active members. More demand. - 2nd: What will be in it? What would it cost? This is a bit 2-in-1. Everything, discuss lore, discuss mechanics, rules, classes, you name it. Kind of like a Kickstarter mentality, but before a Kickstarter is started. Updates that determine what gets in and what doesn't get in. Some sort of management just to not get stuck on 1 topic until eternity's end. Updates serve as "marketing" as well in a way. Costs: Community could research, mail to developers and marketing divisions. Ask them how much this and that would cost and how much time it would take. Get a number basically. With that, pre-production done. Revise and polish before pitching to developers. - 4rd: Pitch to Developers. Get in touch with everyone. Let's say someone bites the idea and wants in. If they all say "No" or give feedback, polish the idea further and then pitch it. B) Kickstarter - So now you've got an idea, you've got a community, you've got a developer, all that's left to do is get funding and develop the game. There's already some willing to fund the game, but not everyone. But enough demand to see if there's more people willing to demand it. Who says a dev couldn't just... you know... steal the free game idea? A) Does it really matter? The community would mostly be made up of conceptual hobby artists (I would believe), people who fantasize and dream about a game they really want to see. The point with the community, as I see it, is to envision a game that will never be made, and if a developer team chooses to steal it to use it and make it. No loss. B) Through Kickstarter, where a community is required, it might be shunned upon and it might even appear on journalistic sites as "Bad company! Bad company! But we really want this game!!" kind of. If an established developer team steals it and makes it outside of Kickstarter it's another deal in my opinion, kind of like saying "Thanks for making this awesome game idea for us! But we don't need you! Bye!". Why no pay for the community workers? Are we getting paid on the Obsidian forums? Nah. But we've made several fictional games that could potentially become awesome-est! I'm sure of it. So the potential for it exists. Lore, weapons, items, NPC's, companions, mechanics, rules and so on and so forth. Lots of people on this board could probably create an entire game by themselves in their minds, but can't express it with either Art Tools or Programming Tools. People here have a different skill, Concept & Design Projection, Visionary & Idea Artists. Here's the forum: Conceptual Community Cheers, John Westlin

Or a sophisticated visionary design team that lacks skills and tools. You mean a bunch idea guys? Yes. But the information is also out there, so a bunch of idea guys could do the proper research of all costs included as well. What types of personell would be required, who to hire, priorities, set up a proper documentation on the development process and also present that "This is what would be required to make the game, apart from the funding". Asset concepts. Materials.

But to stay on topic. Are there other methods to get by a trap? "It's a trap!" - "Do a barrelroll!!" Jokes aside. Items? Abilities? Wild Rush away from a boulder you just sprung? Place a plank on a pitfall with spikes. Etc. etc. Do a dodge roll with a Rogue (if possible) over some tripwire? (use the trap to your advantage?) blanket on some magical rune to be able to pass it? Take a sacrifice? A companion maybe has to stop an incoming boulder or dart trap. Will some traps be instadeath? (Getting squished~) or will it be possible to "defuse" any situation? Could Trap-Encounters" be RTwP too, and the mechanics of traps flinging about the screen. A statue falling on top of the party, pause, move away.

Coincedence with 666 topics?

Or a sophisticated visionary design team that lacks skills and tools.

Obsidian pitched the idea to the community, they had a high concept prepared for that pitch. Basically they treated the community as their publisher, I doubt that anyone will give you money to fund what sounds like a poor idea due to a poor presentation. The reverse is also true, if you have a vision then the best way to present it is through a high concept document entailing all aspects of the development cycle. If what you otherwise meant to say is "Hey Obsidian, I have this great idea that you should make into a game" and expect it to materialize into a fully realized product; then I'm afraid no one will be able to help you. Drop my revolutionising game idea that I'm not talking about for now. It's not a high concept yet, I only used that in this discussion not because I am hoping for it to materialize by itself but for the curiosity of the "Community Idea Discussion -> Pitch to Devs -> Kickstarter" question. Could this method be used to fund games or get visions to materialize? Thank you for the documents and links by the way :D I read some of it but I'm working a lot and haven't had time to read through it all yet, but it's most intruiging I must say. I could use one of my other 4 more fleshed out game ideas in a pitch potentially. What I am saying is, would it be possible to have a community to discuss ideas and fully realize it in a high concept and then pitch it to a developer? Step 1 is to discuss an idea with a community, step 2 would be to pitch it. Another example, let's hypothetically say that Might No. 9 never got Kickstarted: 1. A community wants a new Megaman-ish game. 2. They discuss the game together and aspects of the game as much as possible (A High Concept) 3. Pitch their idea to various game developers "Hey! We are a community and we have discussed this game for quite some time. Here's the documents, concepts, rules & mechanics and 'blahdiblah'. Would you be willing to create it if a Kickstarter was successful and would you partake in the Kickstarter campaign (as proof of your collaboration~ a short introduction and confirming that they agree to develop game)?". 4a. IF yes: Kickstart the game (and if funded = development) 4a. IF no (got no time, not interested etc.): Ask another developer/Reform the idea. Another concept of this creative community ideal (having nothing to do with gaming), for just some extra explanation, "Hey government! We, the Community, have discussed 'this and that idea' over here on these forums and want some change. Would you be willing to partake in this endeavor if [$] & amount of backers is reached?". What this entire idea is meant to convey is to give "Power to the People". People asks of things to be done~ "We want this" or "We need this" instead of developers/authority figures making a Kickstarter with the questions a la "Do you want this?" or "Do you need this?". That deal is already done, the question is already answered. The only question that is of importance in this "business"-concept is "Who will develop it?". Summary-ish: 1. Community figures out what they want/need "We want this". 2. Question: "Who will develop it?". 3. Pitch to Developers. Whilst currently it is: 1. Developers figures out what to ask. 2. Question: "Who wants this?" 3. Ask community (Pitch).

Not on sale or anything but I just want to recommend http://store.steampowered.com/app/248820/?snr=1_4_4__tab-NewReleasesFilteredDLC_3

The idea itself isn't the matter really, or how I should present the idea. Hmm how to explain... Obsidian used Kickstarter to fund Project Eternity. In other words, Obsidian (the Company), asked the people (the Community) "Hi. We, the Company, want to do this thing! You, the Community, want to see it happen? Fund!". What I am flirting with is the other way around. Basically: "Hi. We, the Community, want this thing to be made! Are you, the Company, willing to undertake this task if the project gets funded through Kickstarter?".

Hi! So, I have this game idea pretty much fleshed out in my head and have begun sketching and drawing rules & mechanics for it. I won't go into that right now (or anytime soon, I think it's a pretty good idea. Let's leave it at that). The Issue: I don't have the talent to create it. Solution #1: Learn the skills to be able to create it. Solution #2: Hire talent. Now, I'm looking at Solution #2 a little bit extra here and this is what I am curious about. Partly because I see a golden opportunity in it and partly because I am somewhat lazy. The Question: How much does it cost to hire and/or briefly employ game developers? (artists, animators, programmers) I'd make sure a full pay according to their monthly wages would be paid for as long as they are part of the project. Is this a possible method to get game ideas created? The Method: Kickstarter. Of course. 1. A community develops a game idea, writes out rules, feedback on it (story), goes through it and builds a world around it. Passionate hobbyists with lots of concepts and ideas. 2. Talk with various developers "Hey, we're doing this thing on Kickstarter, we've got the game finished already all we need is for it to be put in an engine. You want in?". Let's say they all say yes (because it makes this example so much simpler). 3. Set the Kickstarter Funding Goals so that the developers get paid for their work (Community involved does not get paid). Viable?

I want to build like 15 different parties. I also want to build one female and one male character with each race/class combination sooo... yeah very difficult to put together some sort of list.

I'm getting Risk of Rain. Anyone want to try co-op? http://riskofraingame.com/ Osvir on Steam, I've got the Wizard from Trine as an avatar~ if you're interested

Obxile Insidian Humm... well, in the latest presentation with Chris Avellone MIGS 2013 he talks about their good relations with one another. Just like Project Eternity, Wasteland 2 and Numenera are various spiritual successors of previous games, inXile and Obsidian's co-operation is kind of a "spiritual" Interplay/Black Isle~ (in a way). The soul is still there but physically it's split. Kind of like a cell/amoeba that has divided itself "The Exiled Soul of the Black Isle" sounds like a Quest NPC!

Obviously I can't speak for everyone but this is why I want it and why it appeals to me. Early Access allows me to help out. As for resume stuff, I think if you are ambitious enough you could probably climb a little bit on some tiny ladder which could potentially lead to a bigger ladder. I know I'm being vague but it's for several reasons. All I'm saying is that if you put in enough effort and show you are reliable enough (which can be quite a large amount of "enough"), why couldn't you put it in a resume?

1. I do want the early access though. I want to look for bugs and give early feedback~ 2. Yes. There's a tale of a toothpaste company here in Sweden that had a similar problem (though, they weren't selling well at all). So they raised the price. Suddenly they were the most sold toothpaste. However, there's a difference in releasing a product with a raised price compared to progressively raising it. The product you have was released cheaper then raised, right? "People are buying a lot of this = There's a big demand = Raise the price = It's worth more", can't speak for everyone but that's what I'm thinking. With Planetary Annihilation we have the reverse, people were complaining about the product being worth less "$80!?!? It's not even finished!! How dare you!" etc.etc. it was in respect to the backers ofc, and to the beta backers the game was worth $80. Eternity's beta backer tier is $110. Well, I won't pretend to having special wisdom on that question. I would guess that putting such a high price on it would undermine allegations of conning people. It marks it out clearly as something for fans and afficionados. I made a mistake regarding this analysis of mine btw. So... I want Early Access because I want to help out but... the Early Access might not have to be the same price as the Kickstarter Beta Tier. These are the lowest "specs" of the "Beta Tier": I am personally not looking for anything but the bold & underline, so if there's some way to just up the pledge for "Early Access Only" I believe the price could go down a little bit from $110. Possibly?

In light of this one, I'm curious. Will we be able to click stuff (Question-marks or whatnot) and gain more information? For instance, the table with the big map: "There's a big map here showing the world" or something.

1. I do want the early access though. I want to look for bugs and give early feedback~ 2. Yes. There's a tale of a toothpaste company here in Sweden that had a similar problem (though, they weren't selling well at all). So they raised the price. Suddenly they were the most sold toothpaste. However, there's a difference in releasing a product with a raised price compared to progressively raising it. The product you have was released cheaper then raised, right? "People are buying a lot of this = There's a big demand = Raise the price = It's worth more", can't speak for everyone but that's what I'm thinking. With Planetary Annihilation we have the reverse, people were complaining about the product being worth less "$80!?!? It's not even finished!! How dare you!" etc.etc. it was in respect to the backers ofc, and to the beta backers the game was worth $80. Eternity's beta backer tier is $110.

^Alpha (What I think they are doing now when they are testing the game). - Closed Beta = Company Beta (I suppose). Quality Assurance~ Employer Only Testing. In-House "Is this 'fun'?" kind of thing. Kind of like Alpha but more complete and functional. - Customer Beta = Early Access (What we see on Steam nowadays). This is what we might be able to play. It might even be as much as a single Chapter. I think Blackguards (On Early Access right now) does this model a la "This is Early Access, right now we only have Chapter 1, we'll release Chapter 2 late November, Chapter 3 early 2014..." etc. etc. don't remember the exact details. These are the 3 states I think. Early Access should be out a couple of months before release, and for all I know could even delay the full release a bit. Why? A) Release Early Access = Lots of more revenue that Obsidian didn't have before B) Can now make more stuff with more money which equals more time C) Better final game for a larger audience (Or so I believe), at least more polished The rather long question/analysis I have is: Planetary Annihilation released their Early Access on Steam with a $80 (or so) pricetag. Will Eternity appear on Steam with a $110 pricetag? Or will Obsidian release a "Kickstarter Backer Early Access" early (only those who pledged during the Kickstarter/possibly the Fulfillment Site?) and then later release an Early Access on Steam with a lower pricetag? Planetary Annihilation was successful in doing this, and was at top of "Most Bought Item" for a while on Steam (even at $80!). Can the same thing be said about Eternity on a $110 price? Psychologically, lots of kids/parents/people-in-general might feel cheated on it "Oh what's this? $110! Must be good!!!" and then later complain about it "It's not finished!!". But $110 is also 3 decimals (1, 1, 0) and $80 is only 2 (8, 0). I am not too knowledgeable about "shopper mentality" but I've read some articles and seen some documentary about it in the past and it does matter. Stuff like "Only $99! Buy!" matters. More people buys stuff when it's $99 compared to $100 for example. The Planetary Annihilation debacle was quieted down pretty quickly though, with the reasonable explanation "Hey! This is what we gave the Backers during the Kickstarter, $80 for Early Access, and we wanted to make sure they didn't feel cheated out of a deal". The Devs were just honest about it, and people like TotalBiscuit helped out and were reasonable about it.

I want a Difficulty Option for the Adventurer's Hall! "Closed for Business!" - Can't recruit ANY members from the Hall (Lose all V.I.P's? Too bad for you! You'll have to do with what you got!) - Can't reinforce the Stronghold OR - Can only recruit a limited number of recruits from the Adventurer's Hall - Costs A LOT to Hire OR - I will learn everything there is to learn about modifying the game and create "Closed for Business" myself as an add-on difficulty node