moridin84

No, i am talking about someone who didn't plan ahead before arriving to the boss fight, and needing to reload just before the fight ten times until he dodge all the fireballs/save all the save-or-dies etc. And, again, it's not about 'caring what someone else does'. It's that i know myself, and i know that if i get to a boss fight not prepared enough, odds are i won't say "i'll come back later", i'll say "i'll try again and again until i do it". Which is destroying half the design of a non-linear game where one of the biggest thing is forcing the player to realize "welp, i can't do this right now, better come back later". What? Being able to do this is a bad thing? What's wrong with trying to beat an boss, even though you shouldn't be able to? Why do you have to wait until it's easier? For some games, that's half the fun. Even WOW doesn't do that anymore.

This is the important point. The save mechanic is not something that's "outside" of the gameplay; it's something that's integral to how the game is played and thus its design impacts everything else. With a lax saving mechanic all games, regardless of other difficulty settings, end up trivial. Well okay. So I guess (almost) every single computer RPG made in the last 20 years is apparently 'trivial' in your book? Whatever that means.

Well okay, that seems a little bit childish to be, pull out because they unintentionally hurt your feelings. I mean, you original pledged them money because you want them to make a great game right? Personally I think the 'free' expansion thing is cool. If the thing is successful then they are going to make an expansion pack anyway so it's not like it's going to delay the game because they are adding more stuff.

If someone ends up gone for a significant period of time, then their computer is still on that entire time which may not be something that they want to do. Deleting saved games upon continue requires an exceptionally stable game. Better hope you don't crash (or have a power failure or a host of other things that could interrupt the session). Indeed, a turned on computer could easily be turned off by someone's wife/girlfriend/mother/electrician. Especially if it's noisy or has glowy lights. I don't think the save&continue system is difficult from a mechanical perspective though. Diablo games do it... and Diablo 3 had that whole online thing. Most combat oriented roques you can find from mmos, where player don't have any kind of save option. So plainly adding unlimited saving/loading to game will give us most non-combat roques. That argument... kinda doesn't work.

I disagree. I think people should be free to reload if they want. Even if it something stupid like messing up a dialogue or a quest. I'm pretty sure that a rogue will be a combat oriented class anyway. This isn't PnP, this is a computer game. Even PnP-based computer games* have about 50 times the combat a standard PnP 'campaign' would have. Combat is important so every class needs to be able to pull their own weight. *This isn't a PnP-based computer game, it's a computer game based on a genre of computer games which is mostly populated by PnP-based computer games. An important distinction. This is actually an option in Mount&Blade. I'm not sure if it's worth having it AND ironman mode though.

How the hell are Obsidan supposed to calculate that though? Some people play better, some people play worse, some people play drunk. By having plenty of difficulty options, easiest of which will let really, really bad gamers win the fights*. Allowing you to change the settings midway through the game and not making fights where you have to know beforehand something is going to happen, so the next time you try you'll be prepared. When I play drunk & tired and screw up, I'll reload. But I don't want to progress through trial and error and reloads all the way. And allow saving at any time. If for no other reason, then because it's really annoying to lose two hours of gameplay because the game crashed. *I know a few non-gamers who gave up on DA:O on easy, because they just couldn't win the tougher fights. Now one can go all elitist basement nerd and say they should just get better, but I'm not about to tell people what they should enjoy. Okay, I guess you were just exaggerating when you said "without a single reload". I probably shouldn't have taken it so literally.

Good idea. There is a lot of 'weight' to the name 'Paladin'. It's probably best to avoid it altogether.

Those are just 'themes' for levels. Randomization would just be changing around the rooms, corridors and encounters. Having the mega dungeon randomized is probably a good idea.

Save points were primarily in console games where disk space was an issue. I don't think there were any cRPG's (excluding ports) which had the save point system. Save&quit was in Diablo 1/2/3 but that was because there weren't different 'rules' for single player and multiplayer, they were interchangeable. A save/load system simply wouldn't work. You also re-spawned when you died so loading wasn't required. I can't think of any other RPG which used the same save&quit system.

How the hell are Obsidan supposed to calculate that though? Some people play better, some people play worse, some people play drunk.

Static exp is fine, this isn't an MMO where you need to worry about players grinding low level mobs.

All I'm hearing is that limiting saving is about all "punishing the player" and "making the player suffer". I'll pass on that.

Well I disagree. I want to save as much as I like. On the other hand, there is going to be an ironman mode isn't there? Where you only get one save slot. I guess in that case the rest-ambush thing might make sense. The possibility of dying and having to restart the entire game is certainly going to make you think twice about resting in a dungeon. Still against it though.

Funny you have a Witcher avatar. I remember that I stopped playing that because it crashed while I was in the middle saving, all the time.

You're not willing to 'gamble' €25 euro on the game but are willing to spend hours and hours discussing it? Even though this €25 euro gets you a copy of the game cheaper then if you buy it on release? By the way, how are you planning to try it before release? A demo or something?

I disagree. I will generally save before a fight where I think I might die, I don't want to bother fighting through encounters I've already won, it would be boring. As such, I would save just before I rest because I have no idea what kind of fight I would get. If you are already saving before hand, then actually fighting the ambush that you get is optional because you can just load and try again. The makes the ambushes nothing more then an inconvenience. Inconvenient. That's all the rest-ambush mechanic becomes. What specific things do you think the save/load mechanic 'undermines' beyond resting. Dialogue options and gambling I guess?

Stay tuned. @Monte Carlo I think this counts as a binding contract. I guess you probably need to setup some kind of direct debit now? No man, 8 hours full game. Or something along those lines. I've got lot's of other time consuming stuff to do besides gaming so I really appreciate being able to play stuff through. Is my expectations really off? How much do you want in scope? 200hr? Yes, I want a 200 hour long game. I will not be seen for a number of weeks until I have finally finished it, and then I will hibernate. Well 200h is more like Final Fantasy scope (if you look for every single little bit of content and max level characters). That's a bit too big. I'd go for minimum 40h-50h? Even Final Fantasy games don't take 200 hours, I'd say 40h-50h per play-through while taking a minimum of 20h if you don't bother with all the side quests.

So when you go wakeboard surfing; the number of times you fail by falling into the water and having to start over is not a good indicator of how difficult it is? Succeeding with things the first time you try something usually gives you less of a rewarding experience in total imo (even though I hate it when I fail). Yeah but it's not very quantifiable. What difficulty are you talking about? How good a player are you? What happen if you are tired or not playing seriously?

Rogues with stealth and some sort of primitive flashbang grenades could be helpful if you just wanted to make a mad rush for it. I want to be able to dodge patrols, not literally sneak past them. Hm... how about a rogue drawing attention by throwing something down a corridor and the patrol running off in that direction while the rest of the party (visible) casually strolls by. I know, I know, I'm obsessed with stealth maneuvers. Like I said, I'm thinking from the perspective of a small or one person group. Don't want have to play or have a rogue to do it. Though so suggestion would be an interesting alternative too.

I think we have to agree to disagree. I do not see how it is better to limit resting to inns - particularly in larger dungeons with Watcher's Keep in BG2 or when one travels long distances like the Cloakwood series (Cloakwood 1, 2, 3, 4, plus various levels of Cloakwood Mines) in BG1. A good rest system would go a long way to improving various aspects of the game as well. Well 'safe areas' in large dungeons would be okay if needed. They could be fun 'RP' spots, similar to inns or camps. I don't think the danger of being ambushed is enough of a deterrent to stop you resting whenever you want. At least with restricted rest areas, the developers will know how to properly balance the encounters. Getting around the ambush resting thing is pretty easy afterall. Save Rest Ambush Load Rest Success!

Rogues with stealth and some sort of primitive flashbang grenades could be helpful if you just wanted to make a mad rush for it. I want to be able to dodge patrols, not literally sneak past them.

You are not billed till the Kickstarter ends. Then Kickstarter, through Amazon Payments, tries to collect the pledged money. Most go fine but it's quite common for some payments to fail. What I meant was that I don't need any more enticement. By 8 hours... you mean you want 8 hours of gameplay and/or story done before Kickstarter ends right? The other alternative is too crazy so it must be that.

It could be put in the Expert Mode as an optional feature. Besides, Obsidian isn't planning to do a 1:1 replication of the IE games. You only have to look at the Cooldowns debate to see that. True but most of the things they are adding/changing tends to be improvements that makes things more fun. This doesn't qualify. And... lets all ignore the XCOM: RPG NOT KNOWN screenshot.

We totally need necromancers.

It's probably a nice feature for less then 5% of the player base, I'm sure those players have played games without co-op before so they'll survive.