PrimeJunta

IME with the BB, this is not the case with P:E. Sure, some talents are better than others, and some combinations of talents are better than other combinations (e.g. not stacking Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization on a fighter is sub-optimal), but I've (intentionally and not) made such "dumb" choices when playing with the BB, and while they do make a noticeable difference, it's not so big that my sub-optimal character feels "crippled" in any way. Compared to, say, an IWD fighter specializing in quarterstaves (no good fighter-usable quarterstaves in the game), or a DnD3 fighter with low STR and a stupid selection of feats. I.e., in this case I am fairly convinced that this is a theoretical rather than practical issue. I don't know how closely the P:E designers feel they've reached their "no trap choices" goal, but that has been a goal from the start and from where I'm at it shows. In an MMO I can totally understand that. In a single-player game, not so much. Experienced players that give up at the first sign of frustration don't exist, because they never get experienced that way. They will just start a new game. Probably several. They enjoy playing with different builds after all. I could live with that, no problem. That said, many people ITT have been arguing for a single respec tied to the story, not a feature comparable to Trial of Iron. That's not something you typically disable in an option. I've had that at the back of my mind when discussing it.

There is also the resource issue. Implementing features takes time and effort. It also always introduces new bugs, which will then have to be hunted down and killed. That time could instead be spent on making things less buggy to start with. That approach makes more sense to me.

Josh said he wants to continue tuning into the patches. If the ranger really is underpowered (I haven't tried it in BB480; it was pretty bad in an earlier build though) I'd expect them to address this.

Mm, maybe, for Perception at least. OTOH Concentration is pretty important for a barb since Carnage requires him to be in the thick of things, and getting interrupted by attacks will kind of ruin his day. But yeah you're probably right, a fighter or pally would likely be better overall. I dig this about P:E character mechanics though -- you really can find uses for all the ability scores for most if not all classes. I don't think any class would get no benefit at all from high PER and RES. Even back-row characters, although they don't arguably profit as much.

I've changed my mind. My first character will be an Island Aumaua mercenary from Old Vailia. Rogue. Weapon Focus Soldier. Pick abilities to max out the weapon slots (first priority) and ranged damage (second priority). Carry three arquebuses and a pike. Wear a big floppy hat with as many feathers as I can find with colors matching the skin patterns, and, of course, only the finest-tailored Vailian clothing available. If the style won't knock 'em dead, blackpowder and steel will.

Mixing weapon classes does put a pretty big dent into your effectiveness, moreso with a paladin which doesn't have top base accurarcy to start with. If you want a pistol, pick a melee weapon in the same class. Check out Sensuki's build videos. He made a wack blunderbuss build which maxes out the weapon slots, thereby getting around the very long reload problem. With the other bonus stacking he basically murders any four enemies at the opening, then stands around twiddling his thumbs for the rest of the encounter. I think three blunderbusses and a melee weapon would be a reasonable compromise.

Perhaps. I don't know. The BB is too small to tell for sure. We'll see.

Actually I think the attributes are supposed to be used relatively evenly in conversations and scripted interactions, so it may not work quite like that. If you want to max out those two attributes, I'd go with a front-liner: paladin, fighter, or barbarian. Resolve will help them not get interrupted by attacks, and perception will help them interrupt enemies. Also both contribute to deflection which is useful for them.

Hm true, that's a good point. There aren't any such ambushes in the BB so I didn't think of that. Consider my opinion changed. Edit: Kangaxx... haha Sensuki, I gotcha there. You actually gotta go kick Kangaxx in the sarcophagus before he shows up, so autosave before or after transition doesn't actually matter there.

I'm all for someone hacking together a savegame+character editor to accommodate that. I might even use it myself somewhere along the line. Mods, modding tools, console commands, other things like that are fun. But they do things that don't belong in the game.

There's another assertion that the Rt. Hon. Gromnir also made. Namely, that P:E's character mechanics are so obscure and/or broken that it's easy to make a "completely useless" character. Now, I've only put, like, 75 hours or so into the BB, but in my experience this is just not true. I've made lots of characters in lots of classes, some "straight," some "against type." I've only had one that felt like a chore to play, and that was because the class was broken (and subsequently fixed). So: will people end up with genuinely poor/borderline unplayable characters at all frequently? No, they won't. Will they end up with characters they won't be happy with for whatever other reason? Hell yes. I made a totally badass berserker in BG2 the other day and then decided that running around just hitting things was kind of dull so I started over with a mage. That's all part of the fun. Therefore, a respec is not the "necessity" the Rt. Hon. Gromnir makes it out to be. It's there to accommodate people in category 2. I do not feel it is necessary or contributes to the quality of the game.

Stability issues aside, I prefer autosave after area transition. Avoids the loading screen... which is, at least in the BB, still a teensy-bit longer than I'd ideally like. P:E just shouldn't crash so frequently that auto-save before transition becomes more attractive than avoiding the loading screen that comes from after transition.

I don't like cooldowns (generally speaking). They promote dull and rote gameplay. I prefer a mix of tactical and strategic resources. @Nortar the difference is that you can wait out a cooldown but you can't wait out a per-encounter or per-day limit. You have to end the encounter or find somewhere to rest. That's qualitatively different.

Annnd, there it is again, that strawman. Just can't bear to let it go, can you? You really have lost this debate, haven't you? Weren't you quite supportive of Josh's attempts at eliminating most broken game mechanics resulting in easy but dull exploits? You do realize that "don't use it" is the lazy (and invalid) counter-"argument" against that too. Rest-spamming? "Don't use it." Etc. As to the "but the bugs!" argument, we already addressed that. Bugs should be addressed by patches, and, as an ultimate last resort, the console, not by adding features that make the game worse. Thing is, those choices and consequences are every bit as central to my experience as role-playing choices and consequences. It's the other side of the coin: the impact I've had on the world, and the character I've become. Weak, Gromz. Weak.

Prediction: he won't answer. We might get an entertaining video or meme though. More likely he'll just repeat the same strawmen he's been wailing away on, though. Or maybe try to change the subject again... he's done XP, so... yeah, romance probably. Or maybe melee engagement. Let's see.

You really love this strawman, don't you? Just can't bear to let it go. So much easier to address than the actual argument. Which is, if I may remind you: "The very presence of a respec in the game trivializes the character-building choices up to that point, and therefore greatly detracts from the experience for players who consider choice and consequence crucial to the computer role-playing game experience." Nothing to do with "upright and pure role-players o' justice," or caring the least bit how somebody else plays the game. Keep going though, you're quite entertaining, especially with the memes and the videos. I guess they work in the courtroom too, "if the glove don't fit, you must acquit" Chewbacca defense and all.

Gameplay in NWN2 is fairly ghastly but the character building system is fun IMO once you figure out the intricacies. I've thrown BG2 at the wall numerous times, but never because of the combat system.

Not what I meant. Respec = rebuilding your character from level 1 (possibly excluding stat distribution or some such). Adjustments = stuff like moving one ability point from one stat to another, or swapping one class ability for another. I am (almost) categorically opposed to the former (as I feel it trivializes yadda yadda yadda), but not to the latter.

The Mac client has been pretty crashy all through the BB. Perhaps he's running into similar issues. I've had no trouble with the Windows one since, like, forever.

BTW I have nothing against events that let you make minor adjustments to your character, like, say, the potions of ability transference you found in IWD and possibly some other IE games, or, say, the possibility to swap one soul-powered ability for another. I am opposed to respec which erases your history and lets you rebuild from scratch, more or less.

Huh, how did that happen? I don't usually thread necro. Still this one went OK.

@messier To my ear "Dwiergus" sounds like what that Germanic word for dwarf (dwergaz) would become if it was loaned into a Slavic language.

Short version: PnP since I was 11 (1982), eventually my dad got a computer and I discovered Might & Magic, Wizardry, and Ultima (and NetHack of course). Drifted over to flight sims and strategy games some time in the 1990's, got back into cRPG's around 2002. Big dry spell somewhere in the middle which was just one disappointment after another except for VtM: Bloodlines and The Witchers (despite the glaring flaws in both of them). Enjoying the glorious incline brought forth by Kickstarter. Somewhat bummed that I just haven't had the time to play all the ones I'd want to, like Inquisitor (not to be confused with DA:I, that turd), Divinity: Original Sin, Expeditions: Conquistador, and so on.

Chernobog. I belive Dwiergus is another somewhat mangled real name: proto-Germanic dwergaz (dwarf), which is possibly derived from Sanskrit dhvaras, "demon." Fraz Urb'luu is probably made up though.

Poles to a man, those demons. Toldja.