PrimeJunta

I think the relevant question to ask here is, which Edér? I've no doubt that a 3 Might rogue with the right talents can do more damage than Edér built as a pure tank. But then that's not a very high bar to clear as Edér built as a pure tank will barely do any damage at all. I've no doubt at all that 3 Might rogue would be perfectly viable if you figure out how to play it to its strengths. I'm also highly skeptical that the 3 Might rogue would compare very well with other rogues with similar talents but a biiiiit more points put into Might. Which kind of puts this in the "bragging rights" category for me. Perhaps Boeroer can turn this too into a combat god?

Rangers are fabulous. The disposable meat shield is rad because it carries no strategic cost -- with a couple of them onboard you can get through most trash fights (and some of the tougher ones too) without losing a single point of health. And their ranged abilities really do wonders to the damage output. I like to build my rangers as gunners: give them slow-firing, hard-hitting weapons, the Swift Aim ability and Swift but Steady talent (and Gunner for good measure if you want it), and watch them go boom-boom-boom. The arbalest, arquebus, and blunderbuss are all good. Arbalest is probably the best actually -- best range, crits can Knockdown, and there are some seriously magical ones in the game. There are also great options for melee rangers. Pikes or staffs work great for them as they have the extra reach to stab at things from behind the meat shield. OTOH they're a pretty robust class (health multiplier 5) so you can use pretty much any weapon combo you like. Two melee rangers + animals make one hell of a front line, and leaves you four slots for back-row damage dealers. See here for a ranger-based party (PC, Sagani, one hired ranger). It's the most effective and flexible party I've played so far, hands down. I tried once with six rangers and it absolutely burned through most fights, but then ran into serious difficulties when facing multiple hard-to-down critters with AoE attacks, ogre druids or drakes for example. So you probably don't want that. Five rangers + crowd controller would certainly be workable if you built two of the rangers into frontliners. Four + crowd controller + support would be more robust and flexible, at the cost of a little less effectiveness mowing down trash mobs. I'm currently going with three and have the feeling that it's pretty much the sweet spot though.

Yeah the Darcozzi Hearth Orlan would take some explaining. How the hey did THAT ever happen? :mystery: Bleak Walker would be less bizarre I'm sure, but 'bizarre' is also kind of the point here. Note BTW that I have a kind of 'holy grail' in mind when doing these party explorations. I want to eventually find something that's (1) effective, (2) flexible, (3) low micro, (4) incorporates at least one, preferably two 'story' companions, and (5) does it in style. It's pretty easy to create specialised parties that are really good at one kind of tactic, but it gets a little dull to play with those: you're repeating the same tactic, and there are some fights where that tactic doesn't work because of immunities, the map, special attacks or whatever, and they get grindy. The Rauatai Bonebreakers got the "routine" gameplay down, but in the harder fights the lack of CC became a drag. Also three weapon slots was overkill; they would've worked just as well with two, so making them Island Aumaua was unnecessary. This is an evolution of that. The Darcozzi Tacticians -- everybody equipped with Marking weapons -- had the effectiveness down for sure, those 10 to 30 point ACC bonuses really make a difference. And they had all-story-companions, which was also cool. But while they had a theme, they lacked the unifying style, and weren't all that flexible tactically. To make full use of the Marking bonuses, I have to split them into pairs and put each pair on a target. Works great with Zealous Rush. However, it requires a fair bit of micro and gets somewhat repetitive, although they most definitely have "backup" tactical options from GM and Aloth's casts. So far I like the Bonebreakers' style the best, but this party plays better. It's really quick to switch between tactics/styles -- just by regrouping and switching from Zealous Rush to Zealous Endurance I can turn them from mobile strikers into a murder turtle, and if I let Hiravias off the leash that changes things again. And then switch back again.

It sounds to me that you're simply not playing very well. I would agree, except I have no trouble winning the fights.

Themes: little people, defensive strategy, things that go BOOM Editor's note: this is a stupidly effective party, which makes Path of the Damned feel like Normal. The Pervrunen Dworvlans originated about a century ago. One Glanfathan Orlan named Cyrli was exiled from his tribe, and ended up in the trackless wastes of the White that Wends. There, he encountered a clan of Pargrunen, and convinced them of his theory that Boreal Dwarves and Orlan are in reality two branches of the same family, and reunification is the sacred duty of both peoples. Despite their best efforts, the Dworvlans have hitherto failed to produce viable offspring. I had the rare occasion to briefly travel with a band of Pervgrunen I encountered during my extended visit of Dyrwood. As their leader Qitupiiq recounted to me, his people had heard tell of a mystical, sacred place of the Pervgrunen, known as the White Forge. Believing that it had to be less bloody cold than the White that Wends, he, his faithful bear companion Puuqi, his cousin-spouse Paniiq with her wolf-friend Snuupi, and their short but furry cohabits Qimuli and Dereq, both holy warriors of uncertain description but conflicting ethoi, set out to search for it. The isolation and harsh climate of the White that Wends has clearly affected both the dwarf and the orlan component of the Pervgrunen Dworvlan people. The dwarves are clearly deficient in the higher intellectual capabilities, but little escapes their gimlet-eyed stare, and they are fantastically active, whereas the orlans are almost glacially slow, but resolute and intellectual. I had many interesting discussions with Qimuli and Dereq about their differing martial philosophies. The dwarves bring to the Pervgrunen their love of heavy metals and things that go 'boom,' while the orlans, ever quick with a knife to the knee, favor that basic survival tool to be found everywhere in the Antarctic waste: the icepick. As Dereq once mused to me, "few problems can't be solved with an icepick to the kidneys, except an icepick in the kidneys." Soon after their arrival in Dyrwood, the band of Pervgrunen was augmented by one Sagani, so desperate for company of her compatriots that she reluctantly agreed to travel with them, despite their reputation having reached her home, Naasitaq. "We do not speak of the Pervgrunen," she flatly told me when I wanted to interview her for details. My travels with the Pervgrunen were cut short when they occupied a ruined fortress in the middle of the Dyrwoodan wilds, and appointed me its chamberlain, minus my very expensive arquebus ("it goes boom!") and armour. "You're too tall," Dereq told me. Fortunately, they visited regularly and recounted tales of their exploits which I have noted down exactly as told to me in this memoir, most colourfully by one Hiravias, an Orlan of local extraction who immediately saw the truth and beauty of the notion of unity, love, and cohabitation between the short-statured people. --- PC: Qitupiiq, Male Boreal Dwarf Ranger, Laborer, Bear Companion (Puuqi). Stats: Mig 20, Con 12, Dex 17, Per 19, Int 5, Res 5. Skills: Mechanics, with a bit of Stealth and Athletics. Abilities: Wounding Shot, Swift Aim!, Stalkers Link, Driving Flight Talents: Marksman, Swift and Steady!, WF: Soldier, Gunner Gear: Arquebus, light armour. -- Hired companion 1: Paniiq, Female Boreal Dwarf Ranger, Hunter, Wolf Companion (Snuupi). Stats: as above. Skills: split between Stealth, Athletics, Lore, and Survival Abilities: as above. Talents: Faithful Companion, Swift and Steady!, WF: Soldier Gear: as above -- Hired companion 2: Qimuli, Female Hearth Orlan Darcozzi Paladin Stats: Mig 14, Con 14, Dex 3, Per 16, Int 16, Res 15 Skills: Lore, rest split between Stealth, Athletics, Survival Abilities: Lay on Hands, Liberating Exhortation, Zealous Endurance, Reviving Exhortation, Flames of Devotion Talents: Deep Faith, Sword and Shield Style, WF: Ruffian Gear: heavy armour, shield, stiletto / pistol or blunderbuss -- Hired companion 3: Dereq, Male Hearth Orlan Goldpact Paladin Stats: as above Skills: as above Abilities: Flames of Devotion, Zealous Focus, Zealous Charge, Hastening Exhortation Talents: Deep Faith, Enduring Flames, WF: Ruffian, Sword and Shield Style Gear: as above -- Sagani, built and equipped more or less like the rangers above Hiravias, Weapon and Shield Style, Cautious Attack, plus lots more defensive talents, equipped as the paladins -- So this is a ridiculously powerful party, and also remarkably versatile. I have enough stealth to creep up on enemies and finish off one or two squishies in a gunpowder alpha strike. Then I have lots of options: I can switch on Zealous Charge and make the battlefield mobile, retreating, regrouping, firing, moving, and so on, taking care to keep my rangers well behind the animal companions and the orlans. Or I can form up into a tight knot with the orlans and the animal companions shielding the rangers and drop the opposition with volleys one by one; the dwarves fire stupidly fast and accurately, and the orlans are really hard to kill and occasionally do manage to shiv someone in the knee (which is quite painful with Flames of Devotion). And if things get hairy, I can have Hiravias trigger Returning Storm, summon up a Blight, or do any of the druidy things druids do to control crowds. You'd think that I'd have a serious problem with casters targeting my rangers, but no -- if I push the beloved cute furry animals forward enough, they nuke them instead, which makes the rangers sad for a bit but then the animals get up again afterwards and all is well. Okay, so I'm not that far into the game yet with this party and I suppose something could get tricky later on, but I'll be damned if I can think what. They'd actually probably be even more effective with arbalests and their superior range, but these guys like things that go BOOM so they can keep 'em. Here they are, doing what they love best, raiding some backwoods thayn's crumbling castle.

Sweynur's bunch of drunks is a lot tougher too. Like, a LOT tougher.

Here you go.

True that. The attributes aren't ultimately all that important. Int probably has the most visible and dramatic effect, you really do notice the difference between Int 3 and Int 20 AoE's and durations, especially if playing a caster. Not that much difference with a fighter or rogue, depending on how you pick the talents...

Hm, now that you describe it that way, yeah it probably isn't. Can you have two clients open on the same machine at the same time though? Personally I only play ToI for the extra tension, and haven't even attempted a solo ToI run. I find ToI + Hard to be quite enjoyable actually -- on PotD I do get TPW's every once in a while, so I know I wouldn't get all that far. At least not without some serious planning about what to do in which order. On Hard, if I get TPW'ed I know it's out of carelessness or stupidity; with PotD it's that or just plain ol' lack of skill (or "bad luck" as I like to tell myself).

Solo builds are a bit of a different beast than team builds though, as efficiency isn't enough, you have to consider all-round versatility. With a party it's no problem if you have one guy sitting out a fight where they really can't do much to help, with solo that won't work.

That sounds like work not fun.

what is this I don't even Of course there are pirates in Pillars. You can even pick a "Raider" background that does just that, and you get to meet several of them. (A pirate campaign isn't at the top of my wanted list, but hey, why not? Genre- and setting-appropriate it certainly is.)

Hmm, MIG for the self-heal, INT for the duration-based things? What if you build it entirely around modals?

Yeah if I'm gonna try this, party will definitely include Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz, Grunthos the Flatulent, and Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings. :D

Anyone for a PotD solo trial of iron with one of these though? That would be tense...

Hahaha hilarious! It's too bad you have to use Moon Godlikes for the Silver Tide, 'cuz that there was definitely Vogon poetry. Grunthos the Flatulent FTW!

Good students, they were so lazy they never even learned any spells.

I was haunted for a quite a while some time back. There would be a phantom floating in the middle of the map doing nothing, not answering to my commands either. It and its mute protest at being summed from beyond the Veil followed me all the way from Caed Nua to everywhere in Defiance Bay. It only went away after I quit the game and restarted the client, reloading wouldn't clear it. Thought it was quite appropriate for being a Watcher actually, although clearly unintended.

Would work. Put everything into PER, MIG, and RES with a bunch of CON and maybe DEX, dress him up in heavy armour, put him in the frontline, and cast cone- and line-shaped spells like a boss. They won't reach far, but they'll do murderous damage with murderous precision. If you additionally build up his wand-blasting-skills, that'll make serious mayhem as well. Even the minimal AoE's are enough to nuke tight clusters of enemies. You'll only be really handicapped with duration-based spells, so no gishing for you bro. Incidentally this was my first-ever Pillars character during the backer beta. Also the first-ever character that actually managed to complete the BB without crashes or savegame glitches cutting the playthrough short.

How can you obtain Osric's family armour (other than by killing the Dozens dude?) I've tried on every damn playthrough and the game just won't give me the option to keep it.

That's what hats are for. You can't even see the faces or much skin most of the time.

I like most of the banter. Durance and GM are the worst in this respect, although Durance is the butt of some pretty funny lines. Like when he goes on a rant about how women will betray you etc., and Aloth comments "Perhaps they just don't answer to 'fiery whore.'" Or when that one dargul wants to eat someone and Edér goes, "Will he accept Durance?"

Funny, and here I am, immensely impressed and constantly surprised by the variety in the character system.

Interesting thoughts there, and I broadly agree. The sidequests though were very nicely done for the most part. Many had multiple possible resolutions, some could be approached from different angles, and I especially liked how most of them -- almost all of them in fact -- revealed lore or secrets or otherwise deepened your understanding of the world. Even seemingly trivial ones had something to say about themselves: a simple fetch quest for a dragon egg had someone tell you what dragon egg food does for you, a fetch quest turned out to be connected to political tensions between the movers and shakers of Defiance Bay, and even a trivial village dispute between a drunk and a miller said something about the history of the village and the difficulties it is undergoing. From where I'm at, that's on an entirely different level than BG1, or even BG2, where the sidequests were mostly disconnected, self-contained adventures that could've been set in any swords-and-sorcery-fantasyland. There are a few of them I didn't much care for of course, but overall I thought they were really good.

I want to see a haberdashery, tailor, and milliner, more Vailian fashions, and less purple that you can't re-tint. Thank you.