PrimeJunta

Oh? I'm going to have to try this again then though, because when I did, my toon always ended up going down first. It could be that they just had lower health to start with. I could be mistaken on this.

Some of Tolkien's elves had beards. Círdan the Shipwright's is explicitly mentioned.

That sounds like a really cool build. You @Torm51 and @Boeroer are on a roll here, and this is one of the ones that caught my imagination. For one thing, it's very much in tune with the class concept -- "Leader" -- while focusing on a particular aspect of it. It's not just a good build, it's an aesthetically pleasing one. Personally I'm not big on Flames of Devotion. To really make it work you have to stack a lot of talents on it, which makes the paladin kind of a one-trick pony and less generally useful than if built as a tanky support character. I tried @Boeroer's "alpha striker" paladin build, and yeah, that did hurt, but IMO if your objective is to do point damage, there are classes that give up less to get there.

btw about tank-and-spank I recently tried that again after a long while -- made Minmax the really squishy, really hurty rogue, dressed him up in a snazzy Vailian outfit, built Edér into a tank, and went to town. It alternated between hilarious and frustrating. When I could keep him from getting targeted, it was hilarious. Damn things just burst into gibs in no time flat. Trouble is, a lot of the time I couldn't, and then he'd go down in like one or two shots. I'm sure I could get it to work by practicing my fine movement control and watching the AI targeting, but that's not my preferred playstyle so I gave up on it. I suspect DotA-heads might like it though. And if I stuck with it and starting stacking useful items on him -- boots of speed f.ex. -- it would get a good deal easier. But as it is it's not my thang. I prefer my characters a bit more robust, and like to find synergies between them. Direct point damage is kind of boring.

Enemies don't have health. If you have a really tanky fighter with really low damage wailing on an enemy fighter, both regenerate stamina faster than they damage it. Eventually your fighter will drop because his health reaches zero; the enemy fighter will just stand there indefinitely.

First off, level 4 is the pits. Once you hit level 5 and get level 3 spells, you'll have way better CC and things will get a lot easier. So the first bit of advice is to avoid the tough fights until you hit level 5. There are enough quests and relatively easy fights in the game to get you there without too much pain; then you can tackle Raedric's Hold and stuff. Second, as others have pointed out, you can't hold the line with a single tank if there's no chokepoint (as there usually isn't). In fact defensive tactics just don't work a lot of the time in the early game; your defences just aren't strong enough and there are no choke points. So focus on CC and direct damage: try to keep the strongest enemy away from your squishies and kill their easier-to-kill enemies first, then hit the strongest one with everything you've got. Here are some tactics I use to get through the very early game: Durance. The L1 spells that increase Deflection and Accuracy help a lot. I open up with one or the other, depending on the situation. Then I target the mob boss with the spell that lowers Deflection and Accuracy, it's a pretty powerful single-target debuff and will make it go down pretty fast. From level 2, Consecrated Ground and Repulsing Seal are super-good. Aloth. I have the "build from scratch" box ticked so I give him a slightly different spell selection. Chill Fog is great (slow, DoT, blind), Slicken is fantastic CC although short-duration. Fan of Flames does really good AoE damage, but of course you have to get Aloth positioned right for that. Note and make use of the "no FF" fringe. I sometimes have Aloth hang back and only move in once the engagement starts and then blast a FoF. Or else first drop a Chill Fog, then circle to the side and follow up with FoF. Fetid Caress and Bewildering Spectacle are also very useful, as is Curse of Blackened Sight if you don't have an alternate means to blind (e.g. Eyestrike). Eder. I target the "most dangerous" enemy with him, try to keep it off my squishies. It's not a front line, but it makes a difference. Kana. His skeletons are terribad, so I always give him Reny Daret's Ghost and pop that as soon as possible, then I use the phantom to run between enemies stunning them. That'll usually win the battle right there. Other than chanting (Blessed was Wengridh gives +1 Movement btw which helps running away a lot), I usually have him melee to keep the beasties off Durance and Aloth. I let him keep his armor because at that point it's more important that he makes it to 3 phrases than that he does a lot of damage. PC. Does what the PC does. If a cipher, I open with Eyestrike trying to catch as many of them in it as possible (Blinded is a really strong debuff), repeat as necessary, or alternate with Soul Shock or that one thing that knocks them down.

Yeah, the paladin is one of those classes which only really comes into its own later. An aura + high defences + stacked fire damage + Lay On Hand + some other cool exhortation + usual combat talents adds up to a really nice all-around class, a tank which also does serious spike damage, buffs, and supports. But at early levels it's most definitely meh. I usually defer Raedric's Keep a bit simply because before level 5 or so the fights are just tedious, very micromanage-y and/or I need to rest more than I'd like. But then it's also possible I just suck. (And yes, I also like to murder everyone for their armour.)

To be precise, the cloth plugin stopped working. Cloaks did work during the backer beta, but broke some time very near to release, and they never rematerialised.

This is the way it's done in NetHack also. Metal armour increases spell failure. Of course this ends up not mattering because everybody ends up wearing dragon scale mail anyway, which is both non-metallic and the best armour in the game.

Yeah. I was also bummed about not having Sherlock Orlan as a companion. (Although I did like the GM. On my first playthroughs. Her spaceyness started to grate after a while though.)

Not the problem. There's plenty of room for improvement in Pillars. The problem is that you're just saying things that are plain wrong -- like the comment that I "wut?"'ed. If you want to have an intelligent discussion, it helps if your criticisms don't come across as just... completely random. For starters, we could discuss the rogue, and how to make it stand out more. I've built a number of rogues and none of them have worked as well for me as a hurty-build fighter or monk; the only thing it brings to the table, really, is one extra pip in Mechanics which is hardly enough to justify its existence, and while you can get really serious point damage with it, it's also really, really, really fragile. And if you skew your build to mitigate the fragility, then the damage isn't all that special anymore. (Hint: restricting it to the Ruffian weapon group isn't it.)

Wut? Have you even played the game?

I prefer super-strong one-off spell-likes to be put in consumables instead. The point with spells is that they're a renewable resource.

This is so very true. The permanent loss/temporary gain trade-off in a base mechanic is usually bad design, as it strongly incentivises hoarding. Most players are reluctant to use even ready-made consumables for this reason; instead they struggle through with renewables, saving those sweet scrolls and potions for the boss battle that never comes. If you have material use for a core mechanic -- alchemy, spells etc. -- then those materials have to be renewable too. The Witchers do this nicely -- alchemy is fairly crucial, but herbs regrow and monsters respawn so you can always get more materials. Conversely, the non-renewable materials (from non-respawning monsters) can be used to create mutagens which produce permanent gains. Incidentally, this is one case where respawning monsters makes sense.

And they could name it... the Mahogany Osprey. Or the Century Kestrel.

I believe even more dialog checks are for stats (Perception and Resolve seem the most commonly used) or reputations. They're mostly for flavor though, plus the occasional shortcut that lets you talk your way past an obstacle instead of fighting. You won't really miss out on anything significant even if you dump Res and Per (which would be weird, as you need Res for a defensive build and Per for an offensive one, so you're almost certain to have high points in one, or above-average in both.)

Yes, excellent! Pallegina's and Durance's devotion could go up as their personal quests progress. Very good idea!

^ Yep. I believe it would help a lot if L1 Vancian casters had four casts of L1 spells to start with instead of just two. It'd make the spells feel less hoardable.

This. I really dig the way ethics/reputations are mechanically tied to priest/paladin class features, and I found it a big let-down that it only applies to the PC. Having the reputations affect everyone would add another dimension to party-building: you'd want paladin and priest companions compatible with your outlook. I understand that they didn't do this so they wouldn't discourage players from taking on Durance or Pallegina, but with more companions from WM1 and another one coming in WM2, I think this could be safely changed. After all, if you don't like it, you can always roll your own, or give Pallegina or Durance the talent that neutralises negative faith effects.

Ehh, I think all the weapon groups are good. Each just has some unique advantages. Adventurer -- best 2H weapon (estoc), ranged weapon which doesn't deal pierce damage (sceptre, useful against critters immune to Piercing) Soldier -- best reach weapon (pike -- Tall Grass rules), best artefact non-soulbound 2H weapon (Tidefall), excellent slow ranged weapons (arbalest, arquebus) Knight -- fairly well-rounded group although not "top of the class" in any particular characteristic. Very good all-round 1H weapon (sword), very good 2H weapon (morningstar), very good ranged weapon (crossbow). Weak in fast weapons, and none of the others are best-in-class, although exceptionally good ones are available early in most categories. I would've swapped out the battleaxe for a fast 1H weapon. Peasant -- arguably best fast ranged weapon (hunting bow -- with the right talents, this _shreds_), best tanky weapon (hatchet, because of the deflection bonus), excellent 2H reach weapon (quarterstaff). This is IMO the most well-rounded group of them all. Noble -- most accurate weapon IMO best for fast-hitting Interrupt builds (rapier, good ones are to be had early), two implements (wand and rod, great for wizards), best armour-piercing 1H weapon (mace). Weak in slow, hard-hitting weapons. Ruffian -- best alpha-strike ranged weapon (blunderbuss), best raw damage 1H weapon (sabre), best fast armor-piercing weapon (stiletto). Weak in slow, hard-hitting weapons. I honestly can't think which one's my favourite. I like all of them. Maybe I like Knight the least, but on the other hand there are all those sweet swords and crossbows lying around, so... well, I usually end up putting that one character anyway.

Shadowrun has a classless system. You're right, they have archetypes. More than that, archetypes are just half-finished example builds. You can assign all the karma yourself to build a character entirely from component parts.

Yeah, what @Boeroer said. Crowd control is king, especially at harder difficulties. If you've got your CC game down, you'll be able to debuff and disable even the toughest enemies to the point that middling point-damage will get the job done. I've played a bit with this theory, and find that -- roughly speaking -- there's a linear relationship between ease and your crowd control potential. I tried an all-caster party (druid x 2, wizard x 2, cipher, priest), and it got... really easy. You can layer on six debuffs to open with, and then four AoE direct-damage spells, which makes most fights ... really short. That only burns up two spells each on your Vancian casters, which means even your late Chapter 1 party is good for three or four tough fights before needing a rest -- and in practice it's much more, as your cipher doesn't run out of casts, and most fights are so easy you only need to use one each of the wiz and druid. (PotD difficulty.)

Shadowrun has a classless system.

I hereby move the party size cap be raised to 7, if and only if they're all dwarves, and 8 if the eighth member is a dark-haired female pale elf.

A classless system would be cool too. Personally I prefer them. But I do like a class-based system which lets you use it creatively, while at the same time maintaining class differentiation. The D&D3 system had scope for this with multi-classing, although it did diluted most of that with entirely arbitrary "hard" limits for prestige classes (which I cheerfully bent in the campaigns I ran). Pillars goes one better: it manages to keep the classes unique (for the most part) without arbitrary, game-y restrictions. I'm not a big fan of AD&D classes which really are straitjackets -- other than the completely nutty dual-classing rules, once you've picked a class (or multiclass combo), it's entirely on rails, except that you get to put a pip in a proficiency once every several levels. As to the consistency argument, they explicitly stated that paladin orders and monk orders in Eora aren't like in Faerun. Paladins channel the power of their souls into martial prowess through the strength of their convictions. That's it. They don't specify a particular fighting style for a particular order: they specify the ethos. There's nothing lore-inconsistent that I can see about a Goldpact Knight who fights naked with a spear and shield. (What's more, if you want to roleplay, there's plenty of room for that too, it's just not imposed you by the designers. If I roll up a character with an Old Vailian background, I usually make him or her an Ocean Folk human and murder a backer NPC for one of those nice Vailian costumes as a matter of fact. Plus a hat of course. The hats are rad.)