IEfan

... except that good scenario you described is not really PoE, hence this topic. Okay, so we don't have Charisma but this time around the gamifier is Intelligence. Int is the new legit Charisma... and it could be avoided pr easily by nerfing or changing INT, or following other suggestions in this thread. I mean take a minute and read INT's description and it should be immediately obvious that it should looks suspicious on first glance (at least it did for me but I guess I'm not alone with this). Hell, there are only one or two right builds in PoE for every class and you suffer HEAVY problems in fights if you RP your own non-optimal builds. Sometimes the universal "people are always gonna complain about everything" card isn't the true harmonious solution and just serves to kill the legit C&C dialogue.

A IE-engine min-maxer eh? See for yourself what PoE RTwP battles are really about, it's interesting take on BG action (even more of a resource flow management lé semi-mmorpgs but with emphasis on time) BUT The current battle system is still rough on edges. eg. if you cast a spell outside your range, your caster can run like RIGHT NEXT TO ENEMY and not do anything if **** hits the fan (the vegetable Baldur's gate fan perhaps? ). It's better to manually move caster closer to target, then try again to cast spell. It means a LOTS of manual pausing, be prepared... You very often accidentally misclick your dude out of engagement and instadeaths, there's no doubleclicks or safeguard on this as of yet. Engagement arrows are too vague and unvisible. and so forth. BUT I want to emphasis that I totally support the changes and vision developers have, there's a LOT of potential in every aspect of the game. Makes you wonder what the modded or polished PoE 2 can do? Holy ****... shut up and take my money.

[PERSUADE ->+450 gold, Int 4 required, Apathetic, Self-degrading] ...Can't tell cos I'd never play with the gatdam dialogue-hint system on, lol. Anybody finding that dex doesn't boost Accuracy even somewhat a little strange?? I started the game with Balanced Dex-based Monk with completely average Con... found out the hard way that, you can't really do careful dodging monk (maybe with hi-level talents, and even then... it's quite min-maxing) with how the stats are now. I mean it's just a little unintuitive, you'd assume that it's the only preciness/careful fighter-attribute when there is none really... plus just reading something like fortitude etc just on description quickly reveals how unimportant those stats are. Otherwise digging the battle system, I can see a lot of potential in it.

[spoilers] Control freaks! I don't necessarily agree with Ruffian focus (besides it's an extra talent) and Field Triage initially but I found a LOT of use once I've got used to them... and I can see WHY the characters would pick those abilities, that what kind of builds those characters are MEANT to be. Eder is a weird-ish mix of urban ruffian and heavy Interrupt-centered tank, and it works. Durance is heavy melee-oriented cleric. Elf wizard is low-level critter killer. Kana is A-little-of-all-roles (imo focus in scrolls) and a mixed chanter of buffs/debuffs and summons. [End of spoilers] And so forth: all of these are WORKING builds but SUBOPTIMAL intentionally - they're favored so that the player would further explore the build they're based on. I've done quite well so far with the pre-picked talents anyways so I have no qualms with them. Note, The same system was used in BG series but the auto-leveling happened in 3-4 level intervals. Depending WHEN you got the NPC meant how much underleveled they would be compared to starting NPC's. You wouldn't know or care about this if you weren't min-maxing - most NPC's would work under-leveled as well - but min-maxers would realize that to max experience and levels, you would need to rush 75% of game to get the "best" NPC's ASAP. That's not ridicilous that the game is set this way, what is actually idiotic would actually TO rush for the top NPC's "because I want to choose my level my NPC's" or "because I want to reach level cap on all top NPC's" etc, like youtube longplay-level of ****ty game experience. Like mentioned in the topic, Custom-creating the party completely from scratch solves this problem. Another one is allowing a menu choice at the beginning of game for NPC's to start at level 1 with accumulated experience (for expert players).

Discussion of update patch in reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/31826k/patch_103_notes/ ... It does make you wonder how on earth the Obsidian guys weed out the essential suggestions for balance tweaks from the sea of comments! Great job, Obsidian!

This reminds me of special abilities like that tracking in IWD. I felt a little bummed that essentially it was used at the beginning of an area to just check/have an estimation of enemy types but you'll bump into the soon enough so it doesn't matter so much to use them. Would had been neat if you could had predict an ambush if you find covered steps at some point or lots of footprints/single pair of footprints...But what about when you've got someome with extraordionary sense of smell (like canine)? You could tell what type of folks have recently passed through the area, get extra info on who passed and when in the area... If Obsidian guys want to see some neat system, you should play Discworld Noir. It's a pretty good adventure game, pr forgotten and unfortunately hard to get to work (but it's possible). GoG should pick that up and make it work... Yeah whoops sorry, just throwing ideas again. This IS a good idea and I hope you'll figure out a good system for this (like in Fallout (1 & 2) but more balanced, eg scouting/wildreness ability was night useless to spend your points on). RPG-skills are a bit hard/need "creativity" to implement skills that require imagination in itself in the first place.

They're comparing this to Wasteland 2 graphics, which in that beta-video had that overbloomed, over-coloured 3d graphics as of late (well, exaggarated animation too). Not overly cartoonic as in Borderlands but u no, like flirtin' there? U get me bro? : ^ B Some of them bring up indie games, no doubt, which is hilarious in it's logic like I said.

ahaha i read moonwalking in the title. Please, gimme moonwalking dwarves... i demand them NOW, Obsidian. Do NOT test my temper. Also, this is a isometric rpg so uuuhh dunno where you got that idea from but maybe there'll be crossable water/river/shore/shallow terrain, who knows. Climbing with platemails, huh.

You know, Obsidian only needs to eventually post a picture of what non-cartoony stuff they can achieve with Unity and besides shutting up Unity-naysayers, would probably induce a lot of pledges. The nerd-outrage is kinda hilarious. But it's up to them if they want to post any kind of pictures or videos at all (cough wasteland 2 cough). I mean yeah I too am expecting the more realistic graphics of BG/IWD than the more cartoony ones we've seen in RPG's as of late. But I thought it was kinda obvious that's the style Obsidian will do considering it's oldschool-IE games. Also awesome update & can't wait till Monday. My friend probably pledges now since he has linux.

Hell, you could toggle a quest this way. Consider that every NPC has a check value. You try to rob from a rich-looking but shady person who you can't speak with as the guards don't allow to (could be assasination attempt for all he knows). The only way naturally to pickpocket is to do it in the market with lots of commoners around. He catches your hand/arm when you try to pickpocket him (due to his very high perceptional skills, related to his career), bemusing whether he should cut your hands here and now or send you to the judge/jail. If you have high ability of convincing, eg speech, good weapons/armours, high level, good persuasion/intimidation skill (though i really hated these in NWN as they took away from dialogue/took attention to the glaring fact of obvious functions of dialogue choices (and no grey shades)), etc etc... You can try to spark a conversation with him/make an impression on him and convince him that you and your group could be of use for him. Depending on above mentioned parameters, he might consider yourself as useful (not as a thief really but perhaps as a muscle (due to party); you can also succeed in pick pocket but right away he surrounds you and suspects you & inspects you, once again to his great alertness) and invites you to his villa, where you would could become his right-hand / could be PC's one of the really few entries to the hidden underworld and politics of it (when can be hard to to enter without losing your life). To add on above consequence scenarios: you try to rob a house at night, the man/wife and a child/children wake up on it. Decide if you want to go to jail or hurt the parents in front of the children (or try to leave the house asap somehow). Have it that somebody could see you from eg opposite house (dice/luck based?) or if anybody in the streets saw you walking at night in that area/close to the house/out from the house.

1. How mega is your idea of a mega dungeon? 5 levels? 10 levels? 20? More? Isn't the core idea of Mega dungeon is to be that ridicilous challenge for the toughest (like in roguelikes), plus that they possibly just close you in and never let you go until you clear it? Idk man. I think the idea of each level matters more than the amount I guess, like in Durlag's and Watcher's Keep levels... there has to be some good ideas in level design like in any dungeons. Otherwise, the more the merrier (especially if you can't get out > : ^ B ) Like that's a nice idea and tbh Durlag's Tower was partially tougher than Watcher's Keep in BG2 and that's pretty amazing considering what a killer team I had in BG1, it really brought to my knees. But you know, they can be pretty exhaustive to go through (the elf tower for example - cool lore but daamn, i wouldn't want the whole game become big dungeons one after another like IWD's (at the cost of lore/exploration/npc's/dialogue/idk FRESH CHANGE)). I feel that BG2 big dungeons in general achieved a greatly balanced experience. 2. How important do you think story is in said mega dungeon? I think it definitely matters, depending on what you mean with that sentence ofc. It would be cool if it really connected to the main storyline of the game, like Mutant Base in Fallout 1 (which was hands down a really, really cool/good experience, especially if you went there alone). Perhaps there are conditions to get to mega dungeons or that it is well-hid? Perhaps you could have an alternative ending to the game there? Since it goes for so long/so deep/really tears on your resources and needs preparation. For example, everybody has the normal ending for the game etc etc but perhaps there is a base for the biggest faction in the game (the goverment or "good guys"), eg the heavily armoured naval base of the game - much like in Fallout, it could have respect-inducing known attack towers (eg Fallout 2 defense turrets) AT THE GATES only, just this ridicilous keep you aren't supposed to go in because it's eg the good guys or goverment or whatever. (I was always wondering why there weren't any big govermental buildings for those mage's or the militia in BG2 that you could visit or be awed of or anything). If you start to breach in then there would be no turning back as the whole world will put you on wanted list, major factions either refuse to help or attacks you (they don't want to mess with the Big Brother) and in general you're just down on your luck when you get in there (or leave the keep), thus not leaving you with too many options. Inside, you would perhaps find an hidden plan or plot, perhaps hidden information on events, faction, people in the country - ridicilous sea-monster encounters that might be impossible to put down (thus figure out how to stay alive/how to avoid), etc etc. Whatever you can think of. THEN I could understand why the place A. has huge drops that possibly make the last fight too easy/cause imbalance issues B. WHY the place could be even harder than the last boss or whatever dungeon there is. It was strange in BG1 to have this huge, satisfying, brings-to-your-knees dungeon you BARELY make through and then you're thrown BACK into the world! C. It would make sense why the place is so ridicilously hard/over-powered that it even makes people think that the place isn't even MEANT to be explored/breached, even on the higher levels. (D. and let's face it: how is it possible that a group of 6 people COULD destroy entire worlds, without any limits? perhaps there should be good comparison point for power-differences in game, thus like the Vault City in Fallout 2) Or idk, maybe undersea temple with those huge-ass/overpowering sea monsters as described by Sawyer? An island in the sea that is lethally dangerous to approach even (wow, this really is BG1's storyline). Idk, I just imagine it's something ridicilous and humbling like Ultra-Ending Challenges or similiar in ADOM (a famous roguelike) where you have to go 100 levels down the infinite dungeon or stay and fight the chaos lord in Hell (before you get corrupted to death just by TIME PASSING or surrounding mobs of enemies) or fight Emperor Moloch and it's Molochs or something similiar. Also, why not have a "Fez dungeon" (the indie game)? The game's last secret/puzzle was apparently really complex and cryptic puzzle that took months for fans to beat. Why not have a similiar secret puzzle dungeon, a ridicilous esoteric puzzle? Again, maybe something that looks like that it's cleared but if you're good/pass good conditions, you could detect that it goes on and the entrance/first part is cryptic, leaving you to think whether it's just a small temple for some god or if you have to do something obscure to proceed further. What is the first creature you have killed in your life etc, IDK! Like a "mega dungeon of puzzle dungeons" i guess, with some kind of nice prize at the end. Reminds me of Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 rumours about hidden Luigi character that COULD had been true... 3. Would you still support a mega dungeon if it diverted resources from the main plot/game? My guess is no, but I had to ask. No, Not really. I'd like the core game to be hard as diamond, the quality control is pretty out-of-map in games these days and getting a great entirity would be a goal i guess? I mean it could be nice but I'll ask a question in turn: wouldn't it be possible to put it as an add-on, like in Tales of the Sword Coast (or ToB)? Naturally, that would bring some tough logististical question - maybe script writers or Avellone isn't too happy about adding a remote locations that are hard to include as a part of the game's core story. Plus balancing issues etc. If you think of the above idea I talked about, you could add that dungeon since it is it's own entirity/subworld and has an ending as well. 4. Is this something you would like to see as a high end stretch goal or set of stretch goals? Maybe yeah. I think I'm still looking forward to more updates, the language support question and see if more core questions get answered... I think that basically, the more the actual game vs mega dungeon improves then better - the surpluss resources (if there ever really be such) could be used for the mega dungeon... but what really matters is that if you CAN make an interesting mega-dungeon in the first place and if you have ideas for it. Do you?

ahahah 10 pageeees, youuu guyyyys. wasn't there a article on nerds threatening to quit DA if they didn't remove homosexual elements? Hell yea. Hell yeah!!! Rock'n'roll baby. Do it Avellone. Your only and only chance. Don't let the icky sweaty ****ing nerds get in the way. yeehaaaawww. nerds, meet life, life meet nerds *looks astonished at nerds*

Like my close friend wisely said (who plays a lot of tabletop RPG's, card games, etc etc and designs then, he pledged too as well) - Obsidian isn't basing the battle system on DnD (or on any other tabletop systems to that matter) now and they're thinking stuff carefully so hopefully the prior, glaring problems with weapon balancing from previous Forgotten Realms titles won't become relevant.

OFC i'll support Obsidian's choice, no matter what it is. I voted Justin Bell if only to reinforce an antagonism to fracking Jeremy Soule who'se style is pretty unremarkable & kinda insulting to Justin as well if he's on the job by default. You nerds you!! You would think a lesser-known composer would pour his heart out on a project like this, you know. And I'm somewhat suprised people have forgotten BG 1 & 2 composers, seems like a some kind of insult to those guys consider how ****ing good OST's both have, with major stylistic differences. I really haven't heard anything like them in a long while and i'm a music guy/composer-want-to-be myself. NWN's music was kinda good but the pool of songs wasn't big enough for the game (too much replay) and as for NWN2, idk haven't played much of it. I really miss the weather/outdoors music of BG 1 though!! or any music really. They went all for the epic, grandiose fantasy stuff in BG2 and forgot all about the atmospheric music... though that might be because there wasn't much wilderness in the game anyways (or tiny/peasant towns anyways), everything had to be big.

This is really pointless. They've made their point clear: they're probably going after something totally new or try something different with old systems. You can only comment on previous titles shortcomings for the best result. And for that, i'd say that watch out for making everybody able to cast everything or same POOL of spells: this became a problem in BG2 where rangers, clerics, mages, druids, sorcerers, monks, friggin' everybody has spells (and the same ones) so spamming was huge and roles were lost. It got only worse in ToB, what with fighter's summoning celestial fighters etc. Ofc potions lost importance due to resting and spells, you sold them for money. Also, all-can-cast also means that magic becomes everyday/bland in the process... but i think you can redeem this if what more fighter types learn sparsely + spells are pretty specific/unique than MAGIC MISSILE/ARMOR SPELL. Dialogue/character spells, psionic spells, you name it. It's like those goofy innate abilities in BG series but more useful. Maybe have different pool of spells for lots of folks too? Heroes the TV Series RPG :-P Also be careful with buffs, don't want to see the all-buffs-before-big-fight-(cos-i-can-rest-when-no-enemy-is-around). NWN 1 & 2 revolved around boring buff spells though (with extended periods or strenght) and that blew too. I think best magic is when it acts interestingly besides those effective direct spells - like really goofy but powerful/strangely working spells. Make spells fantastic and perhaps akin to grenades or an battle-turning interventions or DESPERATE by-chance moves when used at right time. I'm still thinking about how different (and FUN) BG's would had been if something like Wild Mages were introduced from the start.