ddillon

^ These "problems" are indicators that attacks of opportunity and engagement mechanics aren't suited to this genre (real time with pause) and that these systems don't make sense in a real-time context (being able to attack a fleeing a opponent while currently attacking another). This is why I suggested that engagement be an active mode that causes fighters to lose all or at least half of their normal attacks per round while using it, because this would instill at least some sense of sanity and balance. Fighters already quickly butcher virtually all other classes (excepting fighter variants of course) in close quarters combat, and this mechanic seems designed to make things even worse, to make it damn near impossible to flee. At this point, I'm hoping that (as mentioned) the engagement area is *very* small and *not* enlarged by gaining levels, taking feats/talents, etc. Maybe then it won't be the nightmare that it seems... here's hoping for the best.

Whackamole +5 Orlans hit by this warhammer must make a Fortitude save or suffer a broken neck and instant death. Those who succeed must make an additional Fortitude save at a -1 penalty or be knocked down. Cool concept. Reminds me of the Colt from Supernatural.

How about the fact that it would probably be about as good of an idea as trying to slap the electrode stick off an active arc-welder, or the lightning rod off the roof of a skyscraper in the middle of an electrical storm? "That magical tome seems to be a conduit through which that Wizard is channeling fiery black liquid death... QUICK! GO TOUCH IT!" Not bad (made me smile), but... Do I take the fiery black liquid death to the face or risk knocking that grimoire away? Hmm... Risking it! Actually, I'd prefer cleaving the hand holding the grimoire... but game limitations & all that, you know? haha I like it! How about: Hot Potato Evocation [Fire] Level: Fire 3, Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S Casting time: 1 standard action Range: Sight of caster Area/Targets: One creature/level Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Affected creatures that fail their fortitude saves drop any currently equipped weapons. It requires one full round to pick up and ready weapons dropped as a result of this spell. Additionally, creatures having dropped their weapons must make an additional reflex save or suffer an attack of opportunity from all enemies within range. Yes?

Batting away grimoires isn't something we're implementing just as batting away swords, bows, etc. are also not being implemented. Wizards aren't unique in this regard. Not a good comparison. Disarming a trained swordsman significantly differs from batting away the grimoire of a wizard focused on spellcasting (reading or using the grimoire as a focus to channel magical energy or whatever). Also, in the case of the wizard as you've outlined the class (dependent on a grimoire), it is simply the most obvious tactic... meaning that you'd best have some explanation for its absence as an option to avoid the barrage of inevitable questions about it. Best bet is probably some kind of in-universe mumbo-jumbo about the grimoire being mystically linked to the wizard to the extent that it'd simply float back to him, I suppose. Or something. Also: No disarming abilities/feats/talents, then? That's good to know. I hope for the best... but I'm playing NWN2 now (awful combat/control/etc), so I naturally fear the worst. I hesitate to outright say it, but all of this (engagement and grimoires) seems to me to be a convoluted attempt at solving problems already solved in DA:O with threat/aggro mechanics, cooldowns, mana, etc. But whatever: I suppose I'm in the minority in my preferences. Here's hoping you pull off the near-impossible and make it all work somehow. I certainly want you to succeed: DA2 ruined that series, after all, so you seem to be our only hope for a decent party-based CRPG at present.

Wizards in PE always have their grimoires out and in-hand when they cast spells. They draw in soul energy through the grimoire before releasing it. That sounds terrible. Aside from the concept itself being awful, consider: What happens when a fighter bats the grimoire out of the mage's grasp? What happens when a rogue outright swipes the grimoire from the mage? Or are these maneuvers conveniently not possible? Going from bad to worse if so... Edit: Haha, JFSOCC ninja'd me asking about rogues stealing grimoires whilst I was typing & juggling some other tasks. --- About Engagement: This needs to be an active ability that prevents the fighter from making normal attacks or at least halves the number of normal attacks that the fighter can attempt (rounded up, so 1 becomes 1, 2 becomes 1, 3 becomes 2, 4 becomes 2, 5 becomes 3, etc). Or something. If not, zones of engagement should be *very* small, perhaps about one character width (or one 'square'). Just enough to prevent kiting exploits and block narrow passages. Also, I don't like the assumption inherent in the system: That mobility and defense are mutually exclusive. Iirc, in DA:O, moving around or backing a short distance away from a targeted enemy could be performed *without* turning away from that enemy and thus without exposing the character to backstab/flanking attacks from that enemy. I liked that a lot. --- Apologies if the post seems negative. Just looking to provide honest feedback on these particular aspects. Overall, I like much of what y'all have revealed.

^ That type of AoE spells damages or affects multiple enemy targets at the cost of the possibility of friendly fire. That's the tactical tradeoff inherent in the concept. Try using other spells and abilities when enemies are close instead of AoE? Edit: Remembered that this is the "quickfire" thread, snipped post to avoid further clutter.

1. Tank gathers threat (Threaten, Taunt, etc), enemies swarm tank. 2. Mage casts Force Field on tank. 3. Mage casts AoE spell. (If any hostiles alive, proceed to 4.) 4. Mage casts Crushing Prison on tank protected by Force Field to generate Shockwave. 5. Party slaughters survivors (if any). --- OR 1. Mage casts Glyph of Repulsion on choke point, enemies gather attempting to force way past. 2. Mage casts Glyph of Paralysis on same spot to generate Paralysis Explosion, enemies paralyzed. 3. Mage casts AoE spell. --- OR 1. Archer uses Scattershot, enemies stunned & damaged. 2. Mage casts AoE spell. --- OR 1. As scout comes running back towards party, leading enemies down hallway/corridor/etc, mage casts AoE spell. --- OR Any of a large number of possible combinations... plenty of crowd control plus threat mechanics... Try not sucking, maybe? (Just playfully messing w/ya...) --- Seriously, I hope PE combat is as fun as DA:O combat. Playing NWN2 now, & the combat is mostly awful.

The orcs right? That part is pretty bad. I mean, slaughtering your way through an entire army of orcs sounds cool but it's a tad tedious. The best part of Neverwinter Nights 2 is the characters, and the castle thing. So yeah, probably skip to MotB. It really is amazing. Yep, just wrapping up the bit with the orcs. Irritated about being forced to accept the bard and the paladin. Also, in the second clan cave, I'm carefully carving my way thru the area, and I send Neeshka ahead to scout... then, bam: The bulk of my party is being attacked by orcs apparently spawned out of nowhere? I notice the combat rolls and whatnot, switch back to the main party, and of course Qara is being hammered by orcs. I'm tempted to skip to MotB, but the main character is the same both the OC and MotB, rt? So wouldn't I be missing out not knowing what the character has been thru, who he's met, where he's been, etc? Mostly, tho, the interface and mechanics are just awful. So far I've managed to make it bearable by taking the Dinosaur Companion feat (introduced by SoZ, overpowered for the OC) and bumping the party size limit to 6 characters. This makes the combat less tedious, and besides that the game seems somewhat balanced for a larger party if you don't spam potions and don't rest after every battle (which seems to be the expected manner of playing for a 4-character party). I try to complete the smaller areas without rest, and I try to rest only once in the larger areas at a spot that I feel is safe or defensible from a roleplaying perspective. Also, the larger party size allows me to experience more character dialog, which is good because I won't likely be completing the OC a second time unless it gets much better in Acts 2 and 3. Also, a friend told me that Sand and Shandra, two of the characters that I've liked so far, become joinable NPCs in Act 2, so I'm wondering if that might make things better. Tho Google auto-complete spoiled part of Shandra's story for me... Perhaps fate is saying: Stop playing this awful game!

...snip...Why are you using word 'we' even though in last sentence you say you are never going to get your copy from Steam? Shouldn't it be 'they' as reference to those mysterious people who absolutely want to get this on Steam, but absolutely don't want to use Steam? In fact, is there any such person here or have we just wasted 4 pages of discussion just for sake of demanding things nobody really cares about? EDIT: In short: Is anyone who has constant problems with Steam or has other reasons for not wanting to use it really going to choose Steam version over DRM- and hasslefree GOG-copy or are you all here just for sake of argument? See my reply to Aoyagi. I argue here to support positive change in the industry in regards to Steam for the sake of future games that might not get a GOG release. For example, From Software won't be getting my money if Dark Souls 2 requires Steam client access control. (I *really* hope that they stick with GFWL... unlike Steam, that client is optional, only needed for accessing online features.) I used the words "we" and "your" to place emphasis on the effect your position has on other gamers such as the OP and those who accept Steam because only because they have no other legal option to play. That is one of the dumbest things that I have heard recently. Buying the game on Steam or buying a physical copy that requires Steam but cracking it to play without Steam still supports Steam and its continued dominance of the gaming market. Voting in favor of Steam with your dollar, etc. If a developer or publisher chooses to force Steam, tough luck for them: They should expect some losses for that **** move imo.

The line of thinking "I use Steam but I hate it!" is comedy gold. Nope, you've misunderstood: I *don't* use Steam. What I said is that I might consider using the service when there's no GOG (or otherwise DRM-free) release of certain titles *if* developers do precisely what the OP suggests in this thread. Steam doesn't get a penny from me as-is.

@Aoyagi: Lol. Steam is optional in *this* case because the game will also be released on GOG. GOG is great, and I have a LOT of games there. But not every game is released on GOG. Remember Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim. No legal options to play those games on PC without Steam. So for the sake of future titles that might not see an immediate release on GOG, I support efforts like this thread to make a positive change in the industry by ensuring that developers are aware of the ability to release a game on Steam without forcing use of its client-based access control and aware that at least some gamers have a real problem with that form of DRM. If I only had to run the Steam client when downloading and installing from the Internet or wanting to use its social features, etc, then perhaps I might not mind Steam (as much). And if it wasn't forced on those who buy physical, of course. So... for the future!

No potion popping plz. If there must be potions (...sigh...), then perhaps something like The Witcher. I would like to see nonmagical poisons/poison-making tho. Maybe a few slow regen potions or items for regaining stamina/health, maybe some *rare* magical elixirs... but I'd like to avoid the usual potion spamfest plz. Plz?

Adds nothing to the game? Really? Both give you option to download and play your owned games anywhere, anytime, on any computer and in some cases even on any OS without having to carry your whole disc collection with you everywhere and mess around with complicated CD-key based DRM-systems and limited online activations. I don't use Origin so I don't know about it, but at least Steam also features Steam Cloud, which transfers your saved games to any computer you might be using. Very handy for me as I often play same games on many different computers. Lastly there are achievements, communities, friends, chat, Steam overlay which features in-game internet browser, crazy sales, great multiplayer platform, Steam Workshop, mod distribution, etc... Yeah, such an useless program just sitting there doing nothing... More-or-less worthless for a single-player rpg played on one computer. So, yep: Bloatware. Now, *you* might like those "features", but why should *we* be forced to run Steam because of *your* preferences? That's the point of this thread: making the Steam client optional so that *we* don't have to run it outside of downloading, installing, patching, etc. And: Requiring Steam is more-or-less a license to pirate to some communities. Not that it makes it "right", but it's understandable imo. --- Also: I support the idea expressed by the OP, but I'll be getting mine from GOG. Steam can suck it.

Tbh, I might prefer a keyword system to that of NWN2... "I think I deserve a reward for doing this for you." ...Really? That's the best that you could write? Then I'd prefer to just click "payment" or "reward" instead. And: Why does asking one question from a list often prevent me from asking the other questions, sometimes preventing me from getting all of the available information about a subject or quest? This doesn't create replay value, if that was the idea... but it does annoy me... Yeah, that list of topic keywords is looking good... Why do each of my companions have ten topics on their dialogue screens that all plug into the same conversation at different points? There's usually one root option that naturally leads to the others in logical sequence... so why not give me only that one option instead of wasting my time by forcing me to wade thru a cluttered list of pseudo-options, most of which lead to dialogue that I've already read? Even the writers seem to have trouble making sense of this structure at times, apparently, because characters sometimes reference things that haven't actually been said: Neeshka: "I told you that I wouldn't let anything happen to you." Me: "That's sweet... but no you didn't..." In short, shape up or go keyword. *Note: I'm 2/3 thru Act 1 of NWN2 and struggling to continue playing the game... this is my second attempt at playing the game... I played around the time of the Gold Edition release but quit shortly before the beginning of Act 2 because the game is so bad... trying to play it again for the sake of playing MotB which is said to be much better.

But here's the thing: If the plot of an IE-style game does not require certain characters to be in the party, game mechanics could and often do practically require certain characters to be accepted anyway. In D&D-style games, accepting a rogue is practically mandatory if the player character is not a rogue, and yet often there's only one such character. To a lesser extent, the same can be said of other party roles as well: A PC caster is practically required to accept a fighter as soon as possible, and a PC fighter is practically required to accept a healer as soon as possible, etc. It's the nature of the genre: Party roles must be filled. This is one of the reasons why the ability to create as many of the party as desired is so important, to provide an alternative to hated characters (especially likely to be necessary given Obsidian's history). Thankfully, the idiots protesting the Adventurer's Hall were overruled.

Virgil

Yep. Yep. --- First: We all like Obsidian (...to varying degrees...), but let's not pretend that this is something more than it is... A short, hairy humanoid race with affinity for mind magic? They're called gnomes. This is *not* astoundingly unique or original. Don't be a fanboy/girl. Second: This could be a good thing. The Orlan race could satisfy several niche groups that enjoy playing as little folk, thus saving resources that would otherwise be spent creating separate playable races for halflings, gnomes, goblins, etc. Perhaps those races could even be subraces of Orlans. Perhaps the Aumaua will be a similar catch-all for those who enjoy playing as as orcs, half ogres, etc (or a parent race of such). Third: I'm liking it overall. Brings to mind these guys: Guardians of the Universe haha It is rather common for fantasy races to have long, pointy ears. I didn't immediately associate the ears with either bats or rabbits. Rather, they strike me as evoking antenna, mental receivers for their psionic (cipher) abilities. Something like mental sonar, perhaps... so kind of like bat ears after all, I suppose.

That which *must* be avoided: The party walks into a room. Several skeletons or corpses are laying about the floor. When we reach the middle of the room (or the spooky altar, or whatever), the undead come to life, surrounding us! Gasp! F*** that noise. If I'm exploring the Lair of Necromancer X or the Cave of Restless Souls or whatever, you can be damn sure that I'll be smashing the skulls (and maybe breaking the arms) of any inactive skeletons that I come across. Corpses? I'll be assuming "potential zombie" and hacking off the heads (and maybe the hands). Ancient king sitting mummified on his throne? I'll be taking that gigantic two-handed sword laying across his knees before I reach for the bejeweled crown. No contrived "surprises" plz! Despite its many flaws, Skyrim does well in this regard: Some undead can be destroyed by a cautious and stealthy player before reanimating and becoming a threat, some shamble out of coffins and sarcophagi, and some are already active before the player arrives. Also irksome: A necromancer (either one of the party or an enemy) utters his spell and poof! Instant skeleton from nowhere! A few more utterances, and poof! Instant zombie from nowhere! Again, Skyrim does this mostly right: Instead of undead summons, there are reanimation spells that require a corpse as a target (although Dawnguard introduces spells which summon a Boneman, Mistman, or Wrathman from the Soul Cairn rather than reanimating a dead body).

Edit: Oops, totally misinterpreted the post.

Voted for "running". Don't y'all remember the irritation of slowly walking everywhere in BG2? The joy of learning about debug mode and Ctrl-J? I'd prefer: - always running, no fatigue penalties as in DA:O - default running, no fatigue penalties, shift-click walking - default walking, shift-click running, no fatigue penalties, "always run" toggle Noise/detection/distraction penalties when running could be okay, but fatigue/exhaustion systems tend to be annoying rather than game-enhancing.

Bah, I prefer the landing strip.

@Ausir: I know (see the joke about the elven mistress). I was teasing the pro-romance crowd.

I tend towards preferring that interbreeding be possible but not common. I don't want half-breeds to be a separate race (which would be a waste); at most, half-breeds should be a subrace option or a background trait. If Josh Sawyer did confirm that interbreeding is impossible in PE, then I'd suppose that romances between the races would be exceedingly rare... So no companion romances! But then... No worries about your elven mistress getting pregnant.

Devs: Plz do not put sports references into our fantasy game. Thnx. Seriously, am I the only one who wouldn't use Eltonbrand in Morrowind because of the ridiculous basketball reference? Probably so.

Wait... women are good for something other than sex?! Oh, I get it: You want Sagani and Cadegund to cover up when we have company visiting the stronghold? And make themselves useful, like doing the party's laundry and stuff? I kid, I kid. I agree with your sentiment, but given the released concept art, I suspect that you needn't be concerned about this. Obsidian has already changed Cadegund's original, rather modest boobplate to a more realistic, rounded shape, so the developers are aware of and sensitive to these concerns.