Longknife

I have to correct you on something, the official announcement that there wont be Romance came months after the game was funded. Up to then we were still debating if Romance would be in. Most promancers, like me, assumed they would be in the game on some level I am not saying we were mislead but next time it would probably be better to just say in the beginning of the KS funding phase " there will be no Romance in PoE due to reason X or reason Y " That way there will be less consternation and no surprises for any promancer I specifically recall the word on the matter being "We will consider it," aka a resounding MAYBE, with little tidbits tossed in like "I'd have to convince Chris Avellone it's worth pursuing, and he hates writing romance." Any fan of Obsidian would know this as common knowledge. Yes, you got a resounding "maybe," but you were definitely warned and informed that's one hell of a maybe. And yes I read your post. I'm directing my comments here more at anyone in general rather than you yourself, as like you said, you don't feel mislead or anything Yes I agree the initial stance from Obsidian around Romance was not positive and I know that Chris doesn't like writing Romance. But why should you think his view on any topic be automatically considered the only valid one? ....Because he's writing it. xD It's simple: you cannot convince a murder mystery writer to write a fantasy novel. You cannot convince a poet to write science fiction. That's not how it works. Writers express themselves, that's what gives their work value. When you try to force someone to write about something they don't want to, the quality drops. I promise you forcing Chris to write romance would result in poor quality romance that no one would like or it'd be so taxing on him to polish it up that it'd eat time and resources from other areas. Best thing you said imo is "next time be direct," to which I say, in their defense...? They just got funded above and beyond what they were expecting. FFS Chris met my request for him to sing Don't Stop Believin' with GETTING THE ENTIRE OBSIDIAN TEAM TO DO SO. They were probably exceptionally thankful, and therefore with good intent, Chris and co begrudgingly agreed to consider it as thanks, but ultimately opted against it.

Ignore her. Honestly. If gamers want to be taken seriously and actually confront the industry with this, it'd be best to ignore her. Mark my words: she is the one the very people gamers want to hold accountable are going to be hiding behind, because there's at least a fairly well-known stereotype that gamers are sexist to some degree. "Fighting Zoe" is not a battle worth fighting by any means. She's ALREADY going to be held accountable to a degree:.her name will forever be associated with this scandal, and should she try to develop and sell games, customers are free to vote with their wallets and not purchase. She is COMPLETELY powerless against the consumer base and at their mercy. Meanwhile she serves as this terrific shield that claims the scandal is about sexism rather than corruption. They wanna play that game? Pro-tip: Ignore the woman. Ignore her, don't comment on her, don't insult her (besides personally from what I've seen she seems fairly charming and intelligent, though obviously people have every right to be disgusted should the accusations and theories be true), and instead focus on the journalists she was allegedly close to. Focus on their employers. She's a mere pawn in all of this and gamers would be foolish to focus her. The journalists are the ones people can't exactly "attack" with their wallets by not buying their products. At best you can boycott those websites, but it's a little more complex because unlike Zoe, they've got the support of both game developers and advertisers to try and subvert any boycott attempts. If you want those specific journalists, make it clear to their employers and I promise you they'd be more than willing to fire them as scapegoats in the scandal. If you want the companies to answer for this...? Gamers might wanna grow a pair and learn to boycott.

I have to correct you on something, the official announcement that there wont be Romance came months after the game was funded. Up to then we were still debating if Romance would be in. Most promancers, like me, assumed they would be in the game on some level I am not saying we were mislead but next time it would probably be better to just say in the beginning of the KS funding phase " there will be no Romance in PoE due to reason X or reason Y " That way there will be less consternation and no surprises for any promancer I specifically recall the word on the matter being "We will consider it," aka a resounding MAYBE, with little tidbits tossed in like "I'd have to convince Chris Avellone it's worth pursuing, and he hates writing romance." Any fan of Obsidian would know this as common knowledge. Yes, you got a resounding "maybe," but you were definitely warned and informed that's one hell of a maybe. And yes I read your post. I'm directing my comments here more at anyone in general rather than you yourself, as like you said, you don't feel mislead or anything.

.....MAGIC. You're aware this is what we're talking about, right? Are you aware magic is a work of fiction and is not governed by the laws of physics?

Yknow I linked that vid as a pure example. Just got around to watching it and holy ****ing **** it's like a montage to all that's wrong with Skyrim. xD Laughed so hard. Hopefully it doesn't distract from my overall point though.

Kanye West confirmed for boss character. His interrupt and concentration will be maximum, severely restricting the options for anyone that isn't fast-moving.

Ok, someone explain this to me: Why the **** would you be head-over-heels insistent romance needs to be involved in the game? I'm not good at being anything but blunt, so I'll just say I find the concept absolutely cringeworthy. It's you - the player and a human being - attempting to romance a string of coding and AI. I could agree if someone made an argument that trying to romance someone is a form of quest and challenge that adds to the gameplay, yeah. I recall playing Harvest Moon 64 when I was a kid and that was like the big appeal of the game: working hard to try and woo and marry one of 5 girls. But that was a setting where it worked. That was a peaceful farm life where your only possible concerns could ever be doing your job, putting food on the table and establishing a family if you so choose. I can also understand that watching a romance unfold can be interesting. It's hard to name a TV show that doesn't have sexual tension between two characters as one of the sub-plots. I'm not saying romance is just dull or bland in general. But this? You're an adventurer. You're traveling and engaging in combat nonstop, and you want a major focus of the game to be romance? Where your character works towards trying to sleep with some party member, because obviously that's the most important thing in life? GTFO. The problem with romance is that even if done correctly, it's only viable for a good playthrough. Subsequent playthroughs are going to lack the "thrill of the chase" with you trying to figure out how to woo a certain character and you'll just know. It's just a string of AI, it'll always act the same and I fail to see how a romantic story holds any more value, significance or purpose than a story involving coming to terms with who one is, a personal struggle, or redemption (just a couple classic examples). How would trying to woo someone hold more intellectual value than any of those? IT DOESN'T. At it's best, romance is on par with the other storylines in a game. Not better, not worse, just a different flavor. And that's at BEST. At worst? At worst it's the fans trying to force the developers to including something that has to be BEYOND awkward for the developers, because they're essentially writing a cheesy porno (just without the sex) while trying to think up a character and a relationship dynamic to the target demographic. Pro tip: the target demographic is typically teenage boys and teenage boys would stick their **** in keyholes ffs if they would fit. There's nothing intellectually stimulating or worthwhile about a romance catered to people who just figured out that junk on their crotch can do stuff and feel good doing it. At WORST, you end up with blatantly, cringeworthy and obvious attempts to pander to and cater to that demographic, while ultimately failing HORRENDOUSLY because it's ****ing awkward for the developer: In short? Romance is a huge risky wildcard for -ANY- developer. It could function fine, or it could crash and burn and be a train wreck you can't look away from, dropping everyone's IQ scores and the game rating along with it. "But Longknife! I can't POSSIBLY have a meaningful emotional reaction to anything that doesn't involve romantic feelings!! Romance is clearly the only meaningful emotion in life!" Bull****: There's tons of ways to involve emotion-evoking stories and plotlines that are x1000 times more meaningful for you as a person (aka they contain a lesson or thought you can carry with you and learn from) without resorting to the cop-out card that is romance. Romance, imo, seems like the cheapest form of involving emotionally-charged storylines, because it's essentially a way to flash cleavage at the player and suddenly peak his interest, no matter how bare-bones the storyline of the romantic relationship is. And ffs there's even ways to provide a bit of sexual tension or flirting without it needing to be full-on romance. Go play New Vegas, go travel with Cass. The Courier and Cass definitely have "a thing" going on at times, but it's not so in-your-face that anyone who has no interest in romance feels awkward. I thought that implementation was perfection, and lo and behold I discovered the original plan was to make it possible to marry Cass via a drunken shotgun wedding, but that idea was scrapped and the remnants are nothing beyond overt flirting. All in all, as I said I'm blunt and I just can't help but feel like the romance is being absolutely ridiculous, acting as if romance were the only reason to ever get involved in any game ever. Pro-tip: there are REAL women out there who can offer REAL, meaningful relationships, and yes there can be emotionally-charged storylines that aren't driven by sex. You want romance? Go play a waifu simulator; you can then play PoE when you actually want to...yknow, play a real game. As for this decision to skip that feature? Seems like the most reasonable decision in the world, and I've yet to hear a compelling argument for why the game will suffer without it.

Needs more Fonzie.

Honestly it kinda amazes me and astonishes me that this is STILL heavily discussed. Just goin on the record here real quick: when I mention Muscle wizards or including an easter egg of them, it's satire. I'm openly mocking those of you who cannot seem to fathom that there are other forms of "might" and "power" beyond physical strength, or that wielding a sword is all about physical strength (if I must, I'll start citing respectable and knowledgeable people on the topic of swordplay who'll tell you otherwise). I can't help but feel like some people are TRULY convinced that the developers of PoE are saying high might = you have a six pack, and that people like myself who turn this into a running gag are serious about how our wizards have washboard abs and beat up all enemies with their muscles. This is such a tiny tiny TINY insignificant issue that a simple vocabulary lesson could solve, and I'm sure some of the devs are facepalming when they read these forums, realizing one of the biggest complaints isn't one of balance or bugs or animations, but of wizards possibly and allegedly having muscles.

Don't do too many kickstarters Obsidian cause at some point you gotta have free time to be hired on for Fallout: New Orleans. :D

You like Fallout 3? Well, that explains quite a bit actually. Yep. Fallout: New Vegas is a gem with a turd at its core. Fallout 3 is just a turd. Could somebody....ANYBODY.... ANYBODY who saw and knows why I linked those reaction images and noticed why... Please just acknowledge you exist so I don't lose faith in humanity and throw myself off my balcony. Thank you.

"Muscular wizards do not line up with my stereotype of wizards, therefore the core mathematical mechanics and design of the entire system is flawed. Also, I am incapable of opening up a dictionary and checking possible definitions of 'might.' Send help." Putting aside that yes it doesn't align with my vision of a wizard, the primary reason i'm opposed to the concept is that is ridiculous pretending that a system that allow the existence of a character that can hurt like a fighter class and cast ,at the same time, the same amount of spell with the same effect of a vanilla wizard is nothing but inherently flawed But he's still inferior. Lemme do another comparison and guess which game I'm citing: Fallout New Vegas, cause I'd have sex with that game and take a bullet for it. <3 Anyways, you know what ultimately is gonna set apart two characters in New Vegas with 100 Melee Weapons skill? Perks. The game was admittedly poorly balanced skillpoint-wise for level 50, for obvious reasons (initially capped at 30), so capping skills was pretty easy. So doesn't that destroy roleplaying? Won't my Legionaire skilled in Melee weapons and unarmed tactics be just as good with energy weapons as my Brotherhood of Steel paladin and vice-versa? No, because perks. Perks made all the difference between "competence" and "mastery." 100 Melee weapons without a perk just means you deal considerable damage with melee weapons. A character with all the perks though...? They can't be knocked down, they knockdown on hit, they do massive damage to blocking opponents and they attack faster. You put two characters with 100 melee weapons against each other while only one has perks, the unperked one doesn't have a prayer. Same concept here. Yes you CAN go melee with a sword as a wizard....but why would you? A Wizard can't knockdown with a sword, a Fighter can. Likewise a wizard can already cast from range and auto-attack with a staff, so why would you diminish his ability by making him melee? You wouldn't. And to top that off, what law of the land ever claimed a character like Gandalf cannot possibly be competent in swordplay? That's nonsense. Just because you're smart doesn't mean you can't be physically capable aswell. That little trope came into play to reinforce RPG mechanics, as replay value and varied character playstyle are a cornerstone of RPG gameplay.....But we HAVE the varied gameplay here! The Fighter and Wizard are both capable of things the other is not! Just because they have a common ground in that both can wield a sword competently does not mean they're the same; you'd NEVER create a wizard with the sole intent of him meleeing with a sword because that's madness. Likewise, forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think wizards are capable of taking the weapon talents that award increased skill with that weapon type, so they'd fall behind in that regard aswell. So wtf is the issue? Dear god, your wizard can use a sword without accidently cutting his **** off! Surely this is a crime against humanity! Never played Fallout 3,i'm not on post-apocalyptic stuff. But anyway do you realize that Gandalf is a Maia aka the lesser rank of divinity of Ea? Just saying . Why i would? Crap if i can make a character that makes the same amount of melee dmg of my fighter added with the magic dmg of a wizard who need cc ability i will be able to blow the sorry bastard ass out of his next 3 incarnation at very least. BUT WHY WOULD YOU MELEE? That's the point, you wouldn't. The magic you can dish out as a wizard is far superior and you get a magic auto-attack with the staff. Why on earth would you even make a swordplay-focused wizard? You wouldn't, that's the point. So you're complaining a concept is POSSIBLE even though it's completely counter-intuitive....you know, just like statting a wizard full with STR in a D&D game. I have no idea what any of this even means and I hope you realize how hard you're missing the point if you're citing some LoTR lore as a reason why Gandalf wouldn't be good with a sword.

Tell me, Giubba, do you actually believe that there is such a thing as magic, and you can learn to use it by reading lots of books? 'Cuz what you're saying only makes sense if you do. I don't. I believe that magic is make-believe in make-believe worlds, with make-believe rules, and the rules can be whatever whoever makes the make-believe wants them to be. P:E's rules are different from DnD's. Can we just do a reality-check and realize we're discussing what magic can and cannot do, as if it were a thing? This is on par to if we had a debate about the mating rituals of Smurfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sz9Z_tjz8s

"Muscular wizards do not line up with my stereotype of wizards, therefore the core mathematical mechanics and design of the entire system is flawed. Also, I am incapable of opening up a dictionary and checking possible definitions of 'might.' Send help." Putting aside that yes it doesn't align with my vision of a wizard, the primary reason i'm opposed to the concept is that is ridiculous pretending that a system that allow the existence of a character that can hurt like a fighter class and cast ,at the same time, the same amount of spell with the same effect of a vanilla wizard is nothing but inherently flawed But he's still inferior. Lemme do another comparison and guess which game I'm citing: Fallout New Vegas, cause I'd have sex with that game and take a bullet for it. <3 Anyways, you know what ultimately is gonna set apart two characters in New Vegas with 100 Melee Weapons skill? Perks. The game was admittedly poorly balanced skillpoint-wise for level 50, for obvious reasons (initially capped at 30), so capping skills was pretty easy. So doesn't that destroy roleplaying? Won't my Legionaire skilled in Melee weapons and unarmed tactics be just as good with energy weapons as my Brotherhood of Steel paladin and vice-versa? No, because perks. Perks made all the difference between "competence" and "mastery." 100 Melee weapons without a perk just means you deal considerable damage with melee weapons. A character with all the perks though...? They can't be knocked down, they knockdown on hit, they do massive damage to blocking opponents and they attack faster. You put two characters with 100 melee weapons against each other while only one has perks, the unperked one doesn't have a prayer. Same concept here. Yes you CAN go melee with a sword as a wizard....but why would you? A Wizard can't knockdown with a sword, a Fighter can. Likewise a wizard can already cast from range and auto-attack with a staff, so why would you diminish his ability by making him melee? You wouldn't. And to top that off, what law of the land ever claimed a character like Gandalf cannot possibly be competent in swordplay? That's nonsense. Just because you're smart doesn't mean you can't be physically capable aswell. That little trope came into play to reinforce RPG mechanics, as replay value and varied character playstyle are a cornerstone of RPG gameplay.....But we HAVE the varied gameplay here! The Fighter and Wizard are both capable of things the other is not! Just because they have a common ground in that both can wield a sword competently does not mean they're the same; you'd NEVER create a wizard with the sole intent of him meleeing with a sword because that's madness. Likewise, forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think wizards are capable of taking the weapon talents that award increased skill with that weapon type, so they'd fall behind in that regard aswell. So wtf is the issue? Dear god, your wizard can use a sword without accidently cutting his **** off! Surely this is a crime against humanity!

More than that, I think people are missing the point entirely. Might = power. Power comes in many forms. Wealth is power, influence is power, physical strength is power, intelligence is power, etc etc etc. So in that sense it's totally ambiguous. The only thing "might" implies is a sort of soul energy where some souls are more powerful and influential than others, but that doesn't neccesarily mean a wizard is rockin' sweet abs and biceps. Personally, I like the amiguity of the word "Might" for that exact reason. You're free to either play a might-maxed wizard who's a physical weakling or a might-min'ed wizard who's Arnold Schwarzeneggar. Doesn't make you feel obligated to dump points into a stat that's more or less useful for a wizard (like STR) just to stay in line with a roleplay concept of a physically capable caster.

"Muscular wizards do not line up with my stereotype of wizards, therefore the core mathematical mechanics and design of the entire system is flawed. Also, I am incapable of opening up a dictionary and checking possible definitions of 'might.' Send help."

HOLY **** guys is it just me or is Josh Sawyer practically echoing me from when I tried explaining things to Helm? Be right back, my ego needs congratulating on leveling up. My analytical thinking skills = pro.

Well said. This is really just a small slice of the game and music. Personally I find that game music sticks (or not) with me when I play a game a ton. When I played Skyrim for the first 10 hours, I would have been hard pressed to recall a single melody or phrase. But after 80 hours, I hear the music and it brings back good memories of the game. Ears have muscle memory, and it takes bit of time for that to sink in. For what its worth, I've been composing music as a ghost writer for many years. A couple american TV shows you may or may not heard of, Nikita, Eleventh Hour, Tomorrow People. And many many other smaller things as well. This is just the first "bigger" game that I put my name on. Just cause we're on the topic and you said the name "Skyrim" and others have already linked songs they like, I can name two from that game I loved. But then again come to think of it those are the only two songs of any fantasy game I've played that really jumped out at me. (not that I've played many. I essentially come from Bethesda's games, mind you) I'd rank Morrowind and Oblivion soundtracks on par with what we've heard from PoE thusfar as none of them feature a song I'm just dying to have on my ipod yet they all suit their purpose; the majority of Skyrim songs are much the same in that regard. PART of it I think is just the setting you link up to it. For example Metallic Monks from the Fallout games was a song I never really paid much attention to and often thought of as "that Freeside song," but after it was used in the Lonesome Road trailer it became something I had to download; the trailer gave it meaning for me. Likewise the theme for the Glow (and Mr. House) is made that much better by the fact that you're gonna hear it while exploring old world relics and trying to figure out what's REALLY going on within the setting. And yeah, both of the songs I linked above were songs I encountered in a (rare) emotional moment within Skyrim. (Also for those of you saying "emotional moments in Skyrim? You're lying!!" I would be, but ironically the German voice actors are better in Skyrim's case) Also it's too bad those two songs are the only thing they did right with Skyrim OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH SICK BURN~~~ /revenge for my two-week forum ban at Bethesda

Dat conspiracy...

Honestly guys, I don't see much purpose in discussing this. The music is fine, it's just not spectacular. It's music that you only react with "yeah it fits" and not with "Oh man I want this song on my ipod." But as I recall the music was done by some new guy for Obsidian who wants to compose music for games and really wanted to try his hand at doing it for Project Eternity. Besides, we've only heard a limited bit of music he's done; as I recall I liked the backround music he did for the kickstarter explanation vids. Let him make the soundtrack; it's by no means bad and he can learn from the experience and improve for next time. Main advice I can offer is next time provide more instrumental variance, cause at the moment from what we've seen, every song feels similar in style. Again it's fine though. Reminds me a lot of some of the ambient music for Morrowind.

But then how does one play the fabled muscle wizard Muscle wizards assemble!!!

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN~~~!! Suck it, D&D! Also, "beantwoorden." Dutch continues to be the result of German and English having sex.

I sang earlier. And if you mean come right now, busy talking to a womenz. :C

I joined it alone earlier and sang Wrecking Ball by Miley Cyrus. Next time I demand an audience.