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Merin

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  1. Merin
    I want to role-play the character. Ideally I make the character, decide said character's personality and skills, and make in-game decisions based on what I think said character would try, want to try, etc. I want the game mechanics to look at the character I build and somehow judge the effectiveness of my character's actions based on the statistics of my character. The only real weight of success I want on my shoulders is if I'm telling my character to do the things that fit my character concept. If "succeeding" or "winning" are important enough to me, it behooves me to pick a character concept and build that is viable to "succeed" or "win." I hope that adequately explains my stance of picking "mostly based on character skill, with influence from player skills"... I'd almost pick the last option, except I cannot divorce myself from the fact that in choosing my characters personality and stats I am having at least a significant influence on how successful the character will be at tasks.
  2. Merin
    Wait... you're a moderator and you posted this? QQ? Really?
  3. Merin
    It really wasn't. I mean, I cut my teeth on endless plays of SSI Gold Box D&D games, so I had mage spell lists down pat well before the first IE game came out.... so it's possible I was "just that experienced"... but my dislike of Vancian has nothing to do with it being tactically useful. In my experiences it wasn't. It's just a very convoluted way of getting to specialize your character for some people, and for others to exploit what turns out to be "the most effective build" syndrome. My dislike is thematic - it makes no sense to me, the whole mechanism of memorization, of fire and forget spells. I can live with it. I'd almost rather had any other possible magic system. My reloads in BG2 were from perma-death via one spell in certain combats - and from trying to beat Firkraag too early.
  4. Merin
    ...no, what it did was tell ya that ya was wrong in yer tactics an' ta rethink the battle...hence roleplayin'...sorry it were not Diablows-like enuff fer ya... Uhm, I don't think your definition of role-playing holds any water. If you die in the game, and you are role-playing... you kind of have to make a new character. If you are role-playing, there's no "redo" button. What it forces you to do isn't role-playing... it forces you to rethink tactics. Perhaps even strategies. But tactics != role-playing.... unless you are meta-role-playing a gamer who is trying over and over against to win a game's combat.
  5. Merin
    Bad poll is bad.
  6. Merin
    I would say that in a Kickstarter project where there's a direct relation between our happiness and the amount of money Obsidian gets to make their game, the chances of them reacting are much higher. that's the problem. I don't want them to react too much to us. The simple fact is this: they know more about making games than we do. I want them to trust their own judgement over ours. I'll just let ogrezilla answer for me.
  7. Merin
    This is a Kickstarter, man. They owe us everything. We're not investors. We aren't putting money into something to have control over it. We are pledgers. Donators. Because you pledge or donate to NPR you don't get to have a say about the programming. The best you can do is pick when you pledge, showing support for certain shows. The same applies here - the best you can do is pledge to support after a certain feature or update is announced to show an overall like of something, but even that is drowned out in the noise of general pledges (as, too, is the "pledge during a given show" for NPR is.) You are not the publisher. You are not the investor. The only say you have is whether you donate and how much you choose to donate. That's it. You want more control - start your own development team.
  8. Merin
    More games had level scaling than some people seem to realize. And many well implemented systems people don't even notice in order to judge if it contributed or not. That's the curse of subtlety. Nuance is often lost on most people.
  9. Merin
    This thread will just get closed or merged. Post your comment in an existing thread that is reacting to the word "cool down" being uttered in a non-negative way. EDIT - and then the thread does get merged and my post looks almost as silly as all the "oh, no, WOW cool down spamming!" now look.
  10. Merin
    Thank you.
  11. Merin
    I'd say many of them are just trying to calm people like you, make you see how we don't know what cool downs means yet and that it could be very similar to what you want. I've not hatred of vancian, but I'd rather not have it. I've no love of cool downs, I can live with them. Again, everyone who was expecting D&D 3E - you are going to be very disappointed. Brace for it.
  12. Merin
    I see it's tempest in a teapot time again. If the lack of vancian and the inclusion of any kind of cool down is the breaking point for you... awesome You want to let everyone know it's a "bad decision?" righteous Threatening to not pledge, or to pull your pledge? Take your ball and go home, then. Plenty of us here to fill the void. You won't be missed.
  13. Merin
    Not just that part. Every part of the rant that ignores what the interlocutor is saying. Completely misrepresenting not only the opponents arguments, but their own as well. If mikayel can't admit error in using you as an example, can't admit that misquoting me is wrong, there's no point in engaging.
  14. Merin
    This might help a little to see where Josh's mind is at... if only a little - http://ingenre.com/2012/09/an-interview-with-josh-sawyer/
  15. Merin
    I never said he was, go back and read my original post if you are incapable of recalling what I said. Okay - Tuco isn't using Bard's and Sorcerers to refute D&D style casting. For one, he's only talking about the "low flexibility on the memorization system in D&D" which isn't all of D&D casting. For two, he was contrasting that (Vancian) against a different game system entirely. Your wrong statement is wrong. People are discussing Vancian and cool downs. Not Bards vs. Wizards. And I think, as Tuco himself says to you later, the people who dislike "fire and forget" know that sorcerers and bards didn't use that system. What the hell does this have to do with anything? "D&D style casting" It's clear he doesn't understand the nature of the argument he's in because he doesn't even know the origin, common use-of, or name of the system he's proposing. Aside from that, my biggest complaint wasn't that it was an argument out of ignorance, but that it was an argument out of ignorance THAT KEPT GETTING REPEATED for over a dozen pages. Tuco is one example, there are plenty of other examples in this thread alone -- I'm not going to reread a 20 page thread to pick out two names to give to you. Get over yourself. First off - wow. The italicized part is just... Wow. Secondly, it's not repeated over a dozen pages. He tells you himself that he knows what he didn't like - because he didn't know the Vancian term has zero bearing on the validity of his opinion or taste. He clearly stated he doesn't like "fire and forget" "Vancian" "low flexibility on the memorization system in D&D." It's clear. You are digging a deeper hole, and now you've gone so far as to start saying that your one example didn't mean what he, himself, says he meant, and that he doesn't know what he says he does know. You can't admit you were wrong. He says he knows of the things you said he didn't know. And then you have to try and pretzel twist your argument into... well... the Wow part. As for plenty of examples and trusting you - I trust you have your proof you won't show me as much as I trust Mitt Romney about his tax returns. Both of you have said one thing is true and have been proven false about it already, so trust is gone. Hard proof, not your word. And - I've had far better people than you tell me to "get over myself." Straw man. What I said was - So, yeah, straw man is full of straw. ------------------------- On a lighter note MIng Ming is right!
  16. Merin
    And way to zone in on something unimportant and misinterpret it. Yes, you caught me. The crux of my whole argument was on BG2 not being in that picture. The entirety of my post is now wrong! The entirety of your post, which is what? That we shouldn't expect a game inspired by D&D games to share their mechanics because those mechanics aren't specifically mentioned in a one-paragraph introductory pitch? Not precisely, but I'm going to hazard a guess that this is as close as I'm going to get with you... so yeah, sure. Context is important. So is language. They didn't say Dungeons & Dragons, nor mention rules mechanics. All they said was - "Project Eternity is an isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world developed by Obsidian Entertainment" (yep, no D&D mentioned in there) and "Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment." Nothing bolded implies D&D - and that's the context of what they were offering. "Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out." Which, again, doesn't say D&D anywhere. "We are excited at this chance to create something new, yet reminiscent of those great games and we want you to be a part of it as well." Original but with the feel of. No mention of D&D. This is like "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" giving you DA:O, or "spiritual successor to Wasteland" giving your Fallout. Different mechanics, similar feels in game design theory. If you insist on reading "D&D" into the project, that is your prerogative. But I promise you - you are going to be very disappointed.
  17. Merin
    A little over two weeks into the planning, my friend. They do not have exact details to give you yet. Nor, would I argue, should they give out fine details... especially not until they have gotten a lot of work under their belts and know what is going to work and what is going to stay in the game. Why have drama over something that might end up getting replaced by something else... just to cause more drama.
  18. Merin
    And way to zone in on something unimportant and misinterpret it. Yes, you caught me. The crux of my whole argument was on BG2 not being in that picture. The entirety of my post is now wrong! Or...
  19. Merin
    i don't want to support this game based on nostalgia, I want to support it because I expect it to be good. Because the games they are taking as inspiration were good. Hell, they still are good today, in fact. I donated based on this - "Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment. Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out." When that ceases to be true I might reconsider my donation. Nowhere in there, however, did I see "Vancian" or "no cool downs" mentioned. You read into that what you wanted to read into that. If you saw "Vancian" or "D&D", well, that's your interpretation but it's not stated as such. Just like BG2 and IWD2 are never mentioned on that front page as inspiration. Maybe you can see them as being implied, but they aren't mentioned specifically. What is: Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment. And they aren't in this picture on the front page - Now, later, they DO mention all the stuff they've worked on in the "who is Obsidian" section, but if you are looking there for what PE will be like, couldn't we expect 2D cut-outs (South Park), newspapers and steamworks (Arcanum), and FPS mechanics (New Vegas) as well? Me, for example - I want to be able to create my whole party myself. They mention IWD specifically, should I be expecting that? Or pull my donation because "it was implied" even though (I'd argue) it actually seems to imply the opposite? No. If that's the breaking point for me, I shouldn't have donated to start. ---- If you like the part I quoted and donated based on that, and you feel that it was a lie in there... fine, pull your pledge. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
  20. Merin
    I didn’t mis-speak, you just didn’t understand. I already gave you two examples, if you want an obvious one then check page 15 of this thread where Tuco Benedicto refers to Chaos Chronicles’ system of casting (Chaos Chronicles uses 3.5 rules and the magic is basically Sorcerer or Favored Soul spell-points-per-level). Here, I'll even give you a direct link: http://forums.obsidi...80#entry1217563 Well, it seems to me he knows exactly what he doesn't want - He's describing Vancian vs. non-Vancian. He doesn't say "I fiercely dislike all magic in D&D." He said "I fiercely dislike the low flexibility on the memorization system in D&D." Is he talking about 4E? Is he talking about D&D Next? Are you? The are two points being debated - Vancian ("fire and forget") and cool downs. You gave me one example that is exactly what I've been saying, and none showing using D&D against D&D. I see another game system's magic mechanics being contrasted to Vancian style mechanics. It's clear what he wants and doesn't want. The fact that Sorcerers in BG2, IWD2, a couple other classes in 3E, and ALL OF 4E, isn't Vancian is irrelevant.
  21. Merin
    The Endless Paths of Od Nua That's how you do it. Well played.
  22. Merin
    Awesome update is awesome. Now that's how you do it!
  23. Merin
    Taking the bait only so much as taking a second to point it out. Ah, bait. Uhm... we as in "the whole thread" or we as in "you and me?" Because I wasn't talking about "how to make a system that works" - I was talking about past experiences. Follow - Ah, yes, Josh starts on about thieves in IE games based on AD&D 2nd ED... and me relating my experiences. I only need the one case - the case that exists. Infinity Engine games. And pretty much any other RPG game with rogues short of, I think, Bard's Tale. (snipped out many more personal anecdotes) You relating some of your experiences with thieves, and then saying what I did in those IE games can only work in certain cases. And I respond that I only need one case - the fact that it happened when I did it. It is like saying "what are the odds that a giraffe would evolve?" and answering "100% - because they did." And then I share more stories of my experiences playing D&D (or D&D clones, like Pathfinder) and the lack of thieves, and then I branch on a tangent about munchkins.... Anyway... Wrong - you need a case where it is enabled. Because if you can't heal, you can't use that tactic. If the trap immediately kill a cahracte,r oyu can't send them in either (unless you can spam ressurection, whihc you generally can't) But... I could use that tactic. I'm not quite sure what you are telling me I'm wrong on. I did it all the time. All. The. Time. So it worked in 100% of my experiences. Here you told me that I was wrong, that my saying that it could happen because it did happen is not correct because of.... you know, I really don't know what you are trying to tell me I am wrong about. I think we are holding two separate conversations at this point. That's probably the problem. And mind you there were a few insta-kill traps in BG. I specificly remember one in spellhold. The walls turned anyone passing trough into chunky bits. Huh. I can't say I remember that... but if I did pass through a wall that exploded me in ways I couldn't rez, I probably did exactly what I did everytime the game insta-killed me with spells and magic that you couldn't rez from... reloaded. And, I'm sure everyone agrees, there were far more "insta-kill and no rez" spells than there were traps. But there was healing in BG2. And if I really wanted to take the time, I could have cast "Find Traps" and probably made my "trap-springer" as immune to potential trap damage as possible then sprung it. Or avoided it - I'm sure whatever was behind the insta-kill trap wasn't "win the game / finish the story" necessary. But BG2 was quite popular, I'll give you that one easily. --- In any case, I think I'm comprehending you just fine - but I think you ignored what my point was for your own. And it is absolutely fine to make your own point, conversations shouldn't be one-sided... but this kind of all started when you said I was "wrong" on my point. Which, empiraclly, I cannot be. My tactics worked for me in the instances where they worked for me, and my evidence of such is that they worked for me. That is true regardless of what tweaks or fixes you propose to fix my ability to have those tactics work. Again, I think we splintered into separate conversations. To try and clear that up - YES, you can fix the system. And, YES, the parameters needed to be as they were for me to have succeeded with no rogue as I did. But also - the giraffe exists as it does.
  24. Merin
    But this is a matter of opinion, and one we can easily disagree on. Is that a bug or a feature of AD&D? You say feature, I say bug.
  25. Merin
    When I said "Project Eternity speaks about Infinity Engine games, refering back to specifically Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment." I clearly meant what they keep saying, as on the KS front page here - I read that to say Baldur's Gate 1, Icewind Dale 1 and Planescape: Torment. Not Baldur's Gate the series, Icewind Dale the series, etc. BG 2 still used 2nd ED rules, regardless of Sorcerer in there ... IWD 2 did use a hybrid that moved most of the way into 3.0, sure. But this is a digression. The thread is about Vancian and cool downs (or alternatives to such). And this "debate" on what you said is going to long. I've said my part. You, at best, misspoke. Unless you can point to the "confusion" you are speaking of, I think it rests solely with you. Anyway, I'll stop derailing on this.
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