Merin

Adding a $25-30 add-on for the tiers to get a 'free' copy of the expansion? That doesn't make sense. All you're doing is buying the expansion. Yeah, make it $50. We are donating well above cost of the items we are being rewarded with for donating. Think of the prices as if the Pentagon was ordering it.... okay, maybe not $500 toilet seats, but still.

One of the best updates yes.

Have you seen the reactions around here? We're hitting 2.8 if several forum regulars have to go rob a bank.

Buy it and play it. NWN2 OC is far better than NWN OC. And MotB... well, I won't rave about it like so many others do, but it is pretty good. There are some amazing moments, for certain (I'll say corpse, planes, and Myrkul... and leave it at that.)

so.... happy....

I'm so happy that people have to go through Adventurer's Hall and Paladins to get to him. All but guarantees I get what I want. Oh, happy for the rest of you, too.

Dang-it, I was gonna post that!

I cheer this achievement... as it brings me that much closer to my Adventurer's Hall.

Hey, no, I agree. Mostly. Where we are at, now, I think they need the $190-200 tier. We're stuck, they already made the announcement and such as is. It would be a bad idea to switch the expansion to all or $25 NOW. To be clear - switching NOW is BAD. I think you'd lose negligible people in doing so, but why even lose those people at this point? The $190-200 tier is the answer. You get a few more people spending fifty more dollars - win / win. To dig DEEPER in the $25 or more, however, and how that COULD HAVE worked - here's the ticket from a different thread that I posted before the expansion was announced -

too many posts - combining

Honestly - you're "genuine concern" is noted. Thanks for the condescension. Mate. You're ability to read through text whether someone needs to calm down is fascinating. Tell me, what am I feeling right now as I respond to you? Go on, guess! ------------------------------------------------------ yeah, you know, if it was just that video.... I understand. But, sadly, here's the thing. What's the biggest advice that Kickstarter, the site, gives campaigns? http://www.kickstart...king_your_video Pitch videos almost never work on me, personally. Though I think Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer had very funny ones - that's also the problem. Old School RPG tried that model of humor (as have others) and humor is hard. It comes across as forced and weird because they mostly failed at being Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer.

They build the engine and the assets with a certain set of money. Once that work is done they need to create the story and encounters. It's not that hard to understand. It's not an either/or or split thing like you say. They aren't going to have to recreate the tools for the second game. If they have the funding, some crossover work becomes possible and working on the two together is cheaper than working on two separate games entirely, if you understand what I'm saying. If it doesn't look good enough to you or what you are interested in, that's your call.

Thank you. Icewind Dale is one of the games I've replayed the most. I've tried PS:T three times and never finished it, tried Baldur's Gate a half-dozen times and never finished it. To each their own. We're getting a mix of the games. Stop worrying!

Most other Kickstarters that I followed, when there was offers of "exclusive this for backers" (not even "exclusive content for higher tiers, even) there was a general uproar about everyone actually wanting all content available to everyone who gets the game. Now this isn't exactly "exclusive to some backers" as anyone can buy the product later ... but I seriously doubt people are going to pull their backing because the project has been so well funded that everyone who'd donated enough to get the game also gets the expansion. And those twelve people who are that selfish? Obsidian will be just as huge a success without them. I usually agree with you most of the time, merin, but the idea struck me as bad also. It's not because I think folks would necessarily reduce their pledges, but because it seems like a slap in the face to all those folks who agonized over coughing up more money to the project and finally bit the bullet and did so. Those folks, some of whom could ill-afford it, put their money up front because they felt the need while other, some of whom could easily afford the extra expenditure, held back. I don't have a horse in this race and I'll clearly not withdraw or reduce my pledge, but I think it's bogus to reward folks for not pledging at the expense of those folks who, from this update forward, ponied up the cash. I think what you've seen me advocating is that there be a new $190-200 tier so people can upgrade from $140, keep their physical goodies, and add the expansion in. Is that what you are disagreeing with? Because that's my stance. I was just saying that I bet FEW people made the $140 to $250 jump for the expansion. I'm sure some did, but of 50k backers it'd likely be less that .1%. And if those 230+ people who jumped from $110 to $165 would drop back to $110, all of them (because this would be assuming that Obsidian would just, you know, bone-headedly strip out the point of the $165 tier without adding something else into it) you'd see Eternity lose about $13k. Sad, yes, but I'd bet you'd make it up in new pledges or people jumping up from the $20 to the $25 pledge amount (which is where it'd be smart to put the expansion - just above the biggest glut of donators and at a level that is easy for almost anyone to up their pledge!) You'd need just over 2500 of those 25000 backers to jump up 5 dollars to make up the losses if they did that. I mean, that's math and statistics. They had, what, 700 backers at the $110 level? Even if all jumped to $165, which most wouldn't, it's not nearly as much as you'd get from a third of the largest concentration of backers, the 25000, jumping up $5. Which seems more likely to happen? And then there'd be more "$20 game only" slots opened back up and more people donating at that level. But, again, I'm not saying they SHOULD do that... it's too late. They went another way and can't backtrack at this point without tipping over the apple cart and upsetting people who are looking to be upset. What I'm saying they should do is add a $190-200 tier. And this isn't for me. I can't add anymore money, I'm set where I'm at. I'm speaking for the good of the campaign as a whole. If I had the resources, I'd be in at the $1000. Trust me.

Could it be that something could like both DA:O and BG without having to judge them against each other in some unnecessary "either/or" dichotomy? This is something that always baffles me - is it possible that someone could simultaneously enjoy Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Diablo, Angry Birds, Farmville and Planescape: Torment? I mean, the way some people post it's like they only like one very specific range of game mechanics and anyone who hazards to mention liking, say, the action combat from Arkham Asylum is suddenly the enemy. A person can love Phantasie, Wizard's Crown and Bard's Tale and still love Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale and Fallout, and also love Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, Alpha Protocol and Mass Effect. It can happen. And they can not want game mechanics from any one of those games to have to "infect" all the others. Some people come across as entirely too obsessive about their one type of game. Dragon Age: Origins wasn't a copy of Baldur's Gate. Doesn't mean someone can't have liked both, warts and all on both.

First, if you haven't read this, do so - http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics?ref=nav Then go read this PE update - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/311594 Finally, if you still think you haven't gotten your answers, go to this specific place and see if you didn't miss it from the first link - http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backer%20questions#HowWillProjCreaGetMyInfoToDeliRewa

Most other Kickstarters that I followed, when there was offers of "exclusive this for backers" (not even "exclusive content for higher tiers, even) there was a general uproar about everyone actually wanting all content available to everyone who gets the game. Now this isn't exactly "exclusive to some backers" as anyone can buy the product later ... but I seriously doubt people are going to pull their backing because the project has been so well funded that everyone who'd donated enough to get the game also gets the expansion. And those twelve people who are that selfish? Obsidian will be just as huge a success without them.

I hope the tongue-in-cheek part of my post comes across exactly as intended... as mocking attacks on RPGCodex. humor is hard enough - humor in a forum post, forget about it

Yeah, and on this note - if I could actually meet some honest-to-goodness good guys and dyed-in-the-wool bad guys. Shades of grey, I know, is the new black or some such... but there's a point where going anti-cliche becomes cliche.

codexians For the love of Douglas Adams... YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!! If my experiences with codexians on this forum is any indication of what that term is meant to entail - I (fake) demand an apology! really, though, i have no problem with cool downs, don't love 'em, don't hate 'em... never posted on RPGCodex, barely even knew of the site until i started posting here and apparently upset some members from there... Seriously, though - it got added because one of the devs asked those of us making threads about it to continue clamoring for it if we wanted it, said dev giving the Adventurer's Hall example. Clearly enough people clamored - it got added as a stretch goal.

What is wrong with you people? Because you didn't read the above.

.... what? repeating - "Yes, the $250 tier has a bunch of other stuff - so it's price isn't the issue. It's the fact that, to get the expansion, you have to dish out $110 more or give up the physical tier." What are you on about? In the $140 tier you get the digital fun pack, the digital strategy guide, the digital soundtrack, a pdf of the novella, the in-game items and, oh yeah, a digital copy of the game in addition to your physical items (like the map, t-shirt, collector's edition.) Repeat after me - Digital-only reward tiers have no physical items, but physical item inclusion tiers also have digital items. Okay? You got it this time? So, understanding that, try this part of what I said again before - "The main item of contention - the expansion - is added to the digital tier by adding $50. The physical tier should also be able to get the expansion for a $50 increase - it's not costing them anymore for the digital expansion for the physical or digital tiers." Understand? It costs no more to add the digital expansion to ANY tier, regardless of what else is in that tier. Keep saying that. Being a broken record doesn't make it anymore right. If you think saying that disproves what I've been saying, then you don't understand what I've been saying.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Digital to Digital tier upgrades and physical copy to physical copy upgrades have different costs associated to them. Not really. I'm looking at three things - 1. Reward tier placement. I contend that placing those rewards at the $165 amount was not the best decision, all things considered (the tier right below it, $140, being physical, and the $165 being digital, exactly.) You add reward tiers to entice people to pay a bit more - $110 to $165 has a tier between it, and the difference between digital and physical causes some dissonance anyway with trying to gauge how much you are going to donate... 2. Seemingly inconsistent distance between physical and digital tiers. At first glance there seems an inequality between getting the expansion and Wasteland 2 for digital at $50 more, but needing to spend (so it looks) an extra $110. Yes, the $250 tier has a bunch of other stuff - so it's price isn't the issue. It's the fact that, to get the expansion, you have to dish out $110 more or give up the physical tier. 3. Adding a tier for only digital buyers for new goodies that the physical item buyers would want as well is going to cause some friction with the people who want the boxed copy but also want those other items. Look at the "physical tiers" - there are digital items in them. The "digital only" tiers are for the people who don't want to pay extra for the physical items (don't care about the props) and/or don't want to pay the shipping for their game copy. Adding a digital item to the digital only tier, specifically game copies or expansions, without giving a similar addition to the physical tier with a similar raise is not good planning. It is absolutely not apples (digital) and oranges (physical.) The main item of contention - the expansion - is added to the digital tier by adding $50. The physical tier should also be able to get the expansion for a $50 increase - it's not costing them anymore for the digital expansion for the physical or digital tiers. It is apples (digital expansion) and apples (digital expansion.)

Pretty much. I don't think they have even hinted at having the option to start the game with your own party, so it's not IWD really. It's like Bard's Tale or such games, without being able to create your party at the start that is, and not starting in the Adventurer's Guild and... okay, bad example. I'm betting there is a narrative beginning, where you are either alone for part of it or start with (or quickly join up with) tutorial character(s), who may or may not be long-term companion(s). Putting the hall later saves weird story oddness like starting BG2 in multi-player and leaving the NPC's in their cages as your party is already full.

If nothing else, it's at the wrong tier entirely. Putting it right above the $140 is bad. It is an easy jump from $140 to $165, but those two tiers are completely separate animals. It goes from $110 to $165 to give you the expansion for the digital only tier. Fair enough price increase - we are donating, after all, not buying. But for the physical copy people? You have to either give up your physical copies or jump from $140 to $250. It's bad tier management. There should be an, oh, $195-$200 tier to add the expansion to the $140 tier. Same jump, roughly, as the digital tier. AND THEN those in the $200 tier will eye the $250 tier and think "well, maybe." Look, I've been very praising of their campaign to this point, defended it against many naysayers (all but got chased off of RPGWatch), but I think this was a misstep. (and this is ignoring the Wasteland 2 bonus, which is just icing or sprinkles on top - it's a nice add-on, not an issue of contention here.)