SmkJaguar

I was under the impression that the Mandalorians didn't have a home to go back to anymore. Actually this bit is probably the thing that throws me off a lot. I believe Revan constructed HK-47 after finding the Star Forge and sent him to ace Mandalore, proving that a Mandalore was at least inferred to be in existence somewhere. However this new Mandalore didn't seem all that impressive, since the Mandalorians were still largely scattered, and he didn't seem to command the complete loyalty of ones that weren't abroad. These Mandalorians I took as the bandit type, since they seemed largely pathetic and a rather cowardly lot (even though they are the ones that mention "following Mandalore"). Attacking unarmed individuals with cloaking technology doesn't seem like something a regular Mandalorian would be indulging in (this is supposedly the dude that took down HK? <_< ), but then again, they did get their heads handed to them on their own pikes earlier - so maybe they learned some humility (if not outright fear ) ? Maybe he just decided to crown himself such, but if this is the same Mandalore as the one I'm thinking of, then this dude is definitely not worth the time it takes me to spit him on my saber (if my PC was that kind of Jedi anyways, which he most certainly isn't ) - let alone allow him to join my party. I was hoping for a more formidable adversary/ally (depending on what circumstances we meet him).

Okay, this bit has been bugging me more than the "why would he join you" question. This may have come up before ... If memory serves, it's Canderous who tells us that Revan (presumably still a "good" Jedi - but now I've got to wonder) is the one that shoves a saber through Mandalore, thus causing the disintegration of the various clans into mercenary/bandit rabble scattered across the Rim. With this in mind, how did this new dude come about? I can think of a few ways of how a new leader would be largely accepted by military clans. The first, and obvious being a duel to the death to claim the position (but the only person worthy would be Revan, since he's the only one with a "legitimate claim" in this manner - unless someone defeated him in the interim and was able to prove it to the Mandalorians at large). The second being a Rite of Passage for all would be Mandalores, involving several Trials and some such (kind of boring/passe once I stop to think about that actually). The third is a nomination/designation approach where the current Mandalore names a successor (generally ahead of time, like setting up a chain of command just in case the unforseen/undesired happens - and it would have to be in this case, since Mandalore's death was rather sudden and unexpected, at least for the Mandalorians). The last that I can think of is an open tourney challenge where contenders (much like the first above, except it's open to all deemed worthy) would settle by some kind of contest (most likely to the death) - but this last seems unlikely since the Mandalorians are scattered to the edges of the Galaxy and living like "dogs" - this we have from Canderous himself (although not in so many words ). From the above, I can only guess that this new Mandalore is either: Revan himself (what better way than to go than to turn your former enemies into your loyal footsoldiers ) assuming the Mandalore title and forming his own personal army or acquiring a formidable ally (depending on what side and what approach he's using). Canderous, either having passed the tests, designated/nominated by either Revan, or acknowledged by acclamation. A proxy of one or more of the Dark Lords of the Sith, proven to have defeated Revan, or simply just too strong for the Mandalorians to contest the challenge. Or more boringly, some run of the mill Mandalorian who just happened to rise above the crowd, singlehandedly reunited the disparate Clans, and declared/acclaimed the new Mandalore I suppose this, like so many of my questions will be answered once I have the game. However, I'm just wondering if any of this has concerned others before me. Added Note: about Revan and his crusade. I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention in KotOR, but I've gotten to wondering if Revan and Malak found the Dantooine Star Map piece before or after the war with the Mandalorians. I always assumed it was after, but now that I think of it, I recall the people I spoke with mentioning Revan dropped off the Galactic Radar soon after the conclusion of the War (meaning he didn't have time to get back to Dantooine - just zipped off with half? the fleet into the Outer Rim) - also, Malak seemed rather young and largely in good health (ie. he wasn't missing his jaw :D ). This opens an entirely new, possibly sinister context to Revan's justification for engaging the Mandalorians. Was he corrupted even before the War? Did he discover the Star Map piece before his entry into the War and presented his desire to the Council to join it, just to discover the other pieces? And if that was the case, could the council have sensed ulterior motives and a sinister aspect either to the Outer Rims (obviously they felt somekind of evil vibe from what was said in KotOR) or more disturbingly, in Revan himself? :ph34r:

Well, just thought I'd record some of my thoughts and impressions on what little I've seen of the new site. First off, it seems we start off as a Jedi learner who has yet to pass the Trials to Knighthood. I suppose that's to be expected, but getting saddled with Kreia as a mentor is kind of a drag (Ick! It really is Kreia! ). Not that I have anything in particular against Kreia, it's just that I was so looking forward to completing my training under Revan, oh well " ). Still, have to be mindful to show Kreia the respect she's due (and there may yet be hope of meeting Revan later and getting trained in some uber techniques (w00t) ). What I find really intriguing is the wall papers they have for download, as well as the opening title screen (the one with the lightside/darkside contrast of the characters). Each character depicted on one side seems to be the opposite variant of the other. Meaning, that White Haired Chick (not the Handmaiden - at least I don't think they're the same chick ) seems to be the LS version of the Masked Sith Lord (and I don't just mean counterparts, I think they're being shown off as the same person! ). Of course that issue was discussed before, with a concept art of MSG and WHC duelling. To which I can only say - it may be that the MSG fighting WHC is a different person from the Masked Sith Lord (MSL) shown changing faces with WHC. Perhaps if WHC is LS, then someone else assumes the Mask of the MSL (becoming the MSG that fights WHC ). In anycase, I've always had the feeling that the MSL shown changing faces with WHC was distinctly feminine (although not quite the same shape, MSL has a narcistic chin and a thinner face; whereas WHC has a more rounded oval jaw and seemingly larger head - although that could just be her thick hair ). While the MSG fighting WHC seems clearly masculine . Also that handmaiden bit got me thinking maybe what lowiej said about WHC and Handmaiden (Handmaiden to a Queen perhaps?) being mother and daughter and/or one of them (WHC) being the Queen of Onderon is true. That quip about a Sith Lady looking like the Wicked Queen from Snow White seems to come to mind as well. If LS, the WHC is a benevolent queen with a Jedi servant, if DS she dons a mask and has an evil henchwoman? All in all, this game seems to be taking on dimensions and a scope that goes beyond simple replayability. If these suspicions are true, than this game could very well have the most ambitious plotting ever ! This game would be more like several different games wrapped into one bundle, with the various choices spinning off an entirely different "what if" scenario! (w00t) (the kind of game I was hoping NWN would have in its official campaigns - the kind of game that a lot of people seemed to hope for in Fable) That just seems too much to hope for though ... :ph34r:

I actually found Mission entertaining in KotOR. She provided a vibrant, youthful, counterpoint to the generally grim mood of the rest of the galaxy at large. My hope was to meet her as a cool-headed, self-possessed (yet still very upbeat) young woman that happens to have Jedi training! Under the man himself, Revan, no less. Being able to have my TSL character meet a more mature and seasoned Mission as a peer would have really impressed me. :D And having to either complete her training, or having to complete our Jedi training concurrently (if neither of us have attained Jedi Knight status) would be an interesting experience. Especially the tandem fighting that could result (oh man, those battles would rock!). And the icing on the cake would have been finding Revan together B) (she, as his former pupil, and myself as a long time hopeful ). As Revan, I would have been pleased to take Mission on as my apprentice. And in TSL, I would be honored to meet her as a comrade in arms. ^_^

Actually, I came across a reference of one other rank, that of Jedi Initiate. The rank held by the very young that are inducted into the Order after being scouted out (but have not yet been matched to a Jedi Knight - probably like all those kids in EpII?). The reference was in that Picture book Star Wars guide that has all that stuff about Episode I and II (descriptions of the characters, vehicles, weapons, etc). This may have been mentioned before, but I must have missed it if it was. I believe Initiates become Padawan (perhaps they have to be chosen by a Knight first?), then progress to Knight. There's also some kids' picture book reference that implies (in fact I remember it explicitly stating - but I could be wrong) that a Jedi Knight automatically becomes a Master as soon as his apprentice successfully passes the Trials to become a Jedi Knight. It was the same reference that mentioned Qui-Gon Jin (sp?) had two apprentices before Obi-Wan. The first failed (and presumably was kicked out of the Order), but the second apprentice he took passed the Trials, thus awarding Qui-Gon the title of Jedi Master. No idea how official either reference is, but I figure it's as reasonable as anything else out there, that hasn't directly come out of Lucas' mouth. <_<

Hoo boy, I've got an example of a messianic type that would blow all the above recommendations away (at least IMHO). And she's (yep, a strong female role model type, albeit a twisted and evil variant) not even a movie or game character (yet? AFAIK). Picture yourself with the British, and then imagine you're going up against Joan of Arc! (not the person I'm going to suggest, but definitely seems to be the basis behind her character). I'm speaking of course about Mina of the DragonLance: The War of Souls trilogy (specifically from the first novel-she downgrades during the next two ). She had me rivetted to the novel the moment she made her entrance (and what an entrance ) and did her miracle worker bit. And battle after battle, I kept thinking, damn! If she were real, and that was happening, I'd be right there with Galdar and Captain Samuval crying out "For Mina and the One God! B) (MINA MINA MINA)" :D [and this is even after I found out who the One God was :ph34r: - but before the One God started screwing things up :angry: ] Which brings up another issue, if there's a Dark Lady of the Sith, her right hand (read apprentice/henchman) has to be someone like Galdar. Freaking STRONG, Freaking BIG, and One Hundred Freaking Percent LOYAL (and damnably cunning too). That and the two have to be taken together as a team. SWKotOR2 has to have a Sith Lady (got to be a Lady! ) that can capture and command the Love of the masses (maybe the Queenie of Onderon type?) and have them fight at their most brutally ferocious best. Mina did this by taking the dregs of society; the losers, the hasbeens, and so on, and gave them something. She gave them something to believe in. Although it was steeped in evil, it provided them with something they probably never experienced before - Hope. Hope for something better, hope to improve their desperate situation. That alone is something that took the underdogs and made them into a formidable army (throw in the influence of the One God, and they became frickin' invincible ). One that has nothing to lose (as long as Mina was there to lead them), and everything to gain, but only if they worked together. The Sith in KotOR were, in my estimation, pathetic. NO cohesion, NO discipline, and NO loyalty. Some would argue that the Sith aren't about that - but then Palpatine didn't get where he was without having henches like Vader. And nevermind the propaganda that all Sith are supposed to be backstabbing b@$t@rds (it's a wonder that any of them would have made it past the first century of existence if they kept that up, let alone manage to last thousands of years and take over the galaxy). Even if there aren't Mina and Galdar types in TSL, there should be at least a faction of Sith that are patterned more like the Sith of the Movies (at least before the point where Vader betrays the Emperor and tosses him overboard ). Those Sith gave me the impression that they'd have laid down their lives for Darth Sidious (although even he is no Mina ^_^ ). So the Sith would always stay as a cohesive group even though they would manipulate everyone else into fighting each other (and even manage to pull the Jedi into the conflict - on the wrong side no less! ). To wrap up, I want to see a Sith type that actually makes me want to join the Dark Side. That way everytime I get into a face to face, there's always that tension and temptation to just give in and say "Hell Yeah! I'm with you!" [added note] This would probably make for a great villian idea for NWN2 as well ...

To be honest, it initially went over mine as well. The veiled reference and the whistling didn't dawn on me until I went coasting around other threads and happened to return to this thread about two more times after.

*shrugs* As good as you'd expect from a "PC-Lite". <_< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i was talking to feargus.and that was last night. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (aww man, I can't believe I'm actually laughing at this :ph34r: ) OK, I gotta say, jaguars4ever, you are one vicious dude :ph34r: . That was probably one of the most insidiously subtle, offhand remark I've seen yet. Not only did you seemingly simultaneously insult Microsoft and Xbox users in general, you seem to have caused one of the 'Xboxers' to stumble into your snare - whether you set it intentionally or not. That's pretty evil humour, but I have to admit, I got a laugh out of it (with the deepest of apologies to sstep and despite not wanting to get dragged into such a sordid affair). No doubt, several other primarily PC users (who viewed this exchange in the same light I'm seeing it in anyways) got their giggles in as well. Personally, I'm rather neutral on the console thing. I remember wayyy back when I had a coleco vision set, and desperately wanted a bonafide computer (an apple IIc or something or other I believe) so I could play all those awesome games my friends kept showing me. Flash forward decades later, and I look back at all these consoles (PS2, XBox, NCube to name a few) and I gotta say, "Man, I can't believe I used to play games on those things!" (of course present generation consoles were a lot better than yester year's - or decade's - variants, but present generation computers are far better as well) Consoles are fine, but I tend to see them as second hand and second place to a computer (but that's just my opinion ). In anycase, I firmly believe the graphics of KotOR2 will be fine for both Xbox and PC versions. Well, fine enough for both parties to be happy. [i'm probably gonna be censured or something :ph34r: - if not out right roasted to a crispy char ]

I've got to go with the best: "May the Force be with you." (preferably before some insanely impossible task that can only be accomplished by coordinating different teams to complete certain objectives - and having some important/ranking individual say it) I'm surprised it's not already in here, or if it is, I must have missed it.

Wait, he may be on to something here ... What if that Masked Sith Guy (MSG) is actually not related to any of the old or new characters at all. Instead (s)he's actually your KotOR 2 PC's father (mother)! Sounds exceedingly lame I know. Darth Sun_Tzu would probably even jump in with that funny gif of his. But it's so blatantly lame as to be extremely obvious, so much so, that all of us would probably dismiss it out of hand. I know my jaw would hit the floor if MSG was the PC's character [edit]parent[/edit], especially if it played out something like this: [Me]{slices MSG's lightsaber hand off, knocks him down, then places own saber at his throat (hey it can't be all like the movies )} [MSG] Wait! {raises left hand to mask and peels it off, revealing the face of a withered man} ... I'm your father ... [Me] {viscious snarl twisting features} NOOOOOO! {with a hate filled voice} [MSG] {gasping hard, obviously dying} ... search your feelings ... you know it to be true ... my son ... [Me] {in a softer, broken voice} ... no ... it can't be true ... you're lying ... [MSG] {finally breaks eye contact, lowers gaze to floor} ... [Me] {tears filling eyes} ... why? Of course I prefer this scenario, possibly coupled with this one. B) What say you all? :ph34r:

I'd say so. B) {Raises lightsaber in defensive stance} I'll be on my guard. :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm wondering who or what the 'Hawk ran into. Maybe these new Sith Lords are using some unrecognizable technology (similar to how Rakattan tech was unidentifiable to the Republic when they first encountered it), or perhaps the assailants are something new to the galaxy (new alien race?). And with only the two droids left, I have to wonder where (and how) the rest of the crew disappeared to. Also, I have to wonder if Revan was even on the 'Hawk at the time of the attack. Sounds like he disappeared before the 'Hawk got into battle, since it seems the 'Hawk was recently recovered by the mining complex. My reasoning being that I can't imagine why they'd keep the ship in cold storage for a few years and not even try to repair it - and it doesn't seem likely HK and T3 were adrift the whole time (unless they're incapacitated when we find them). Another impression of mine is that Revan either disappeared on Korriban, or soon after. I can't help but feel he's been stranded behind enemy lines. Accordingly, I feel a strong urge to storm Korriban (hopefully I'll have more reliable back up than a washed up Jedi crone and some prettyboy Solo wannabe - then again, I'll have HK and that's all the back up I need ).

How did Revan's mother die? I ask this because I remember playing through KotOR and doing Bastila's sidequest (which I usually aim to complete anytime I've replayed the game) and coming across a reference to his mother. It sticks in my mind because of the finality of his answer (strange how Revan could remember such a detail at that time, when it seems the rest of his memories were pretty much wiped clean). Apparently Revan knew who his mother was, and even knows how she passed on. Well, it seems that way from what I could gather from his conversation with Bastila's mother. There were only two options that presented themselves to me, when she questioned me about Revan's mother. The first being to brush her off without a definitive answer, and the other to answer that Revan's mother was dead . Of course the entire thing could have been cooked up as a reconstructed memory of the Jedi Council, but somehow the answer struck me as being true (there was no sense of hesitation, no uncertainty that I could detect - granted it was just a simple one line answer - "My mother is dead." sort of thing). Makes me wonder if he knows of his father, or of any siblings. I wonder if this little bit will be addressed in KotOR 2. It's little things like this that add both depth and mystery to my impression of Revan.

What? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm bored, so I think I'll take a stab at this: That's my best interpretation anyways. :shrugs:

[Han]{walks through door} {draws blaster and fires} :ph34r: - ZAP! ZAP! [Vader]{raises left hand} *fizzle* *fizzle* {stretches hand out} *YOINK* [Han]{probably thinking - SH*T!} {Several Scenes Later-Han strapped to torture device} [Han]AAAAAHHHHH! {much screaming and so forth} {yet more scenes later-Han back in room} [Han]"They didn't even ask me anything." {shivering uncontrollably} I think I'll take the Hokey Religion over the blaster any day of the week, if I can do something like that .

Well I got my answer, so I'm happy. I think .

How about ...?: "Get this stunted slime away from my sight!" "Your overconfidence is your weakness!" "And your faith in your friends is yours!" "Can someone get this walking carpet out of my way?" (or something like that) "NO Disintegrations!" (complete with admonishing gesture) "The Rebel Alliance (substitute Old Republic) will fail. I have forseen it." (or some paraphrase or another) "Judge me by my size do you? For it is well you do not. The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is." (or something of that nature) "When 900 years you get, not so good will you look." "Master Yoda (Vander/Revan/Bastilla/et al) you can't die." "Strong am I in the Force (with a faraway look - then shakes head), but not that strong." And pretty much all the other classics, paraphrased or otherwise .

I wouldn't advise it, other players have mentioned the creep factor with Carth hitting on them .

Umm, shouldn't you start a whole new topic as a poll, and then link this thread to it? In anycase, anyone else out there think that Kreia's a poor substitute for a Jedi trainer? Not that I have anything against Kreia (don't even know what she's like ) in particular, it's just I'd feel more comfortable with a more familiar character (especially Master Vander! Training under Vander would be just as good as getting instruction from Yoda! ).

I don't think it qualifies as a 'Force Power' (at least not in game terms) but I'd like that knack of being able to sense danger and instantly react. Just like when Obi-Wan waltzed into that undercity bar in Ep II and just lounged at the bar (that Jedi mind trick on the drug-pusher was hilarious ). Just hangs around a bit sipping his drink, then BAM! He takes off Zam's (sp?) arm. There's also that bit in Padme's/Amidala's bedchambers when Obi-Wan and Anakin were arguing (just before the bar scene in fact) and suddenly sense those weird assassin insects (?) and jump to the rescue. In the movies, it seems you just can't sneak up on or surprise a Jedi (unless you're a Sith, but even then, Qui-Gon managed to dodge Darth Maul's strike). :D

I think I'd want a turtle. I'd probably have to leave him on the 'Hawk, though. Maybe in a little converted aquarium ontop of the work desk? Kind of defeats the purpose though of being able to walk your pet (ever since my pet Lim-Lim died on entry to the Negative Material Plane in PS:Torment, I couldn't bring myself to conjure forth any familiar/pet/ally in a CRPG since ).

Of the original KotOR characters, I would have to say that Mission would make the best apprentice for a Jedi. She's pretty spunky, but her quick temper isn't likely to become the Murderous Fury sort (she seems to be a good person at heart, surprising considering her past). She's quite sharp, and seems like she could pick up the more complex aspects of Jedi training quickly enough despite her advanced age (Yoda would say she's "... too old" ). And if her brother (who I might add, owes me some credits :angry: ) couldn't even corrupt her, I doubt any of the other Sith Lords could (and I'd be seriously pissed if they tried :angry: ). All in all, she seems to possess the required character and talent to pass the Trials and earn the title "Jedi Knight". Now if we could only apprentice our character to Revan ... ^_^

I've been thinking on our PC's state at the beginning and how (s)he'll be out of touch with the Force. And I keep seeing Kreia's name pop up in regards to how we'll be 'reconnected'. I suppose what has to be done, has to be done, but I'd rather go a different route: [Me]{upon first meeting Kreia, and having the procedure explained in detail to me} Kreia, don't take this the wrong way, but ... keep your bag of tricks ya old hag! I want to learn from The Man himself! [Kreia] ... :angry: Why you ... ! I have trained Jedi for ... [Me] {blah, blah, blah, blah ...} [Kreia] {pauses for breath} [Me] You done yet? Can we go look for Revan now? [Kreia] :angry: {ignites her lightsaber} Seriously, there must have been a reason why our PC joined up with Revan's expedition in the first place, especially when the Council was so dead set against it (although that last bit probably wasn't common knowledge). I'm taken with the notion that our PC was hoping to become (or was) Revan's apprentice (I don't believe Malak was Revan's apprentice, he just happened to settle for second place until he could strike down Revan). In which case, how could Revan not have a central role for us, regardless of the other Sith Lords?. I would probably put everything on hold just to hunt down Revan so I can complete my training and become the 14th (?) Inheritor of the Hiten-Mitsurugi ... whoops ... sorry, wrong Series . (I think Revan=Seijuro Hiko :D )

I can't handle that kind of Jolee talk, fizzled the question I had. Oh well, at least I can pander. You Devs are doing a great job (judging by what has been shown so far: I like the new Jedi Robes ), and I've got every confidence you'll be able to vault past the high mark of KotOR.

Well, considering in ANH, Obi-Wan mentions that "... for a thousand generations they defended the Old Republic ..." (or something to that effect), we can infer that there's at least one true Jedi out there fighting the good fight in KotOR 2. We just have to find him/her (I bet it's a Yoda type ). 4000 yrs is (very roughly speaking) about 10 Yoda generations or so (probably more, but really not all that long ago in Yoda terms :D ). So they're out there, probably doing what they can, we just can't see it from our perspective.