BruceVC

That is a good read and is discusses many issues in an objective and reasonable way One thing that concerns me is the apparent influence that Zoe Quinn seems to have, its almost like if she doesn't approve of a particular gender equality project then its got no chance of succeeding. I have an issue with that as she shouldn't be the judge, jury and executioner of what constitutes acceptable initiatives around gender equality.

Guys I'm not going to go back and respond to all comments, but I'll just say I'm not convinced that my view is incorrext In summary I'll make some general response The word gamer does not mean all gamers in this context. @ TN you posted this link https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/09/death-to-the-gamer/. Wow you talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a link that supports your perspective. No that article is annoying and doesn't reflect what gaming journalists are saying, I mentioned websites like the Escapist and RPS that have gone to great lengths to explain what they mean by gamers which you guys have conveniently ignored as it doesn't suit your interpretation of the narrative. Read this link if you want to understand what gaming journalists mean and tell me where in this link its says "all white male gamers are misogynistic scum " https://archive.today/CeWxy @ Longknife. your entire argument that says "find me proof of one prominent figure who is misogynistic" is just completely illogical. No prominent person is going to say publically "I don't want women or gay people in my games" Obviously not, the person will get lambasted and fired as a bigot . But that doesn't mean its not what people think and feel. Sexism is something that you see around what people don't say or how they try to present justification for a lack of gender representation. Read this link about a KS game called Kingdom Come to see what I mean, http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65005-kingdom-come-deliverance-kickstarter/ Now I am not saying everyone on this thread who said " its unrealistic to have women representation in this game is misogynistic " but you can clearly see the systemic resistance to gender equality in this game. And this is just this game, I can post many more links that raises this type of perspective In summary the link I posted https://archive.today/CeWxy summarizes what gaming journalists are really saying, I encourage people to stop thinking there is this campaign that attacks all white, male gamers because its just not true

Admittedly I haven't looked at how things went down in places like reddit or 4chan, but in the confines of what I have seen, my perception matches that of TrueNeutral: For the record, I don't consider abuse acceptable on either side of this (or any) conflict. @BruceVC But don't you see a problem with taking a descriptive term that an entire subculture made up of a diverse set of people have chosen to positively self-identify with, and trying to overload it with a narrow and negative meaning for rhetorical purposes? Even when sincere (rather than just an excuse for demeaning the whole group), I would call that "negligent lack of clarity" at best, and "intolerant dismissal of other people's identity" at worst. Imagine if someone started a campaign of rudely lashing out against "LGBT people". Or "members of hip-hop culture". Or "Muslims". And when confronted with backlash, said "What's your problem? I consider that label to only refer to bad people!" ...Would you respond with "Oh, okay, carry on then"? I wouldn't... No I don't really see any problem with what I am saying and trying to explain. But you have given me a way to make an excellent analogy to reinforce my point. Personally I have an issue with Muslim extremists, like ISIS and Boko Haram, but not with Muslims. But within the Muslim community there are some people who think criticism directed at extremism is the same as criticism towards the whole Muslim community. But its not and that's not what I am saying. Its not my fault that people can't distinguish between the two. The word "gamer" doesn't mean all gamers, but if people keep wanting to believe that they are creating unnecessary vexation for themselves The "Gamer" equivilent to "personally I have an issue with Muslim extremists but not with Muslims" would be "personally I have an issue with Gamer extremists but not with Gamers" not "The word "gamer" doesn't mean all gamers but those gamers who are misogynist, etc.". That would be equivalent to saying "The word "Muslim" doesn't mean all Muslims but those Muslims who are extremists like ISIS, Boko Haram, etc." Do you now see how ridiculous that statement is? The word "TV" doesn't mean all TVs, only 12" Cathode ray tubes. The word "Car" doesn't mean all cars, only Fords The word "music" doesn't mean all music, only Elvis tunes The word "Sports Fan" doesn't mean all sports fans, only fans of the Chicago Cubs The word "German" doesn't mean all Germans, only the Germans who wear lederhosen Yeah I conceded a while ago that Muslim extremist was a bad example

The chance of this being true is highly unlikely

Typical response when you don't agree with someone... "lets play the old troll card" instead of engaging in debate Bruce, I don't know if you've noticed but you're engaged in a debate with 3 people right now. I know that being our only SJW during this time of crisis must mean that you're wearing yourself short but I'm concerned that you won't be able to fulfill your SJW duties to the best of your ability. Maybe look for some help? Yeah at times its a lonely road a person walks who believes in SJ issues And people think we do it because its popular and cool. Not all, we do it for the principle

That may be a bad example, I can concede that. But to suggest I'm trolling after all the time and effort I have put into this thread is just annoying

Ready for this? I'm about to blow your mind.... Name one "gamer" that matches that definition. That's exactly the issue. You can't. Because no one has any misogynistic issues. The perceived misogynistic issues are being manufactured by pointing at nameless or nobody trolls in random comments, the very same trolls who would purposefully say ANYTHING purely to antagonize and not because they mean it. I sincerely doubt you can name a significant figure within the entirety of the video game industry who is openly misogynistic. DAT BLOW UR MIND?? That's not true I'm afraid, there are plenty of people who don't think anything has to change around inclusivity in the gaming industry. I have encountered this type of resistance on these very forums If you don't believe start a Poll on this forums with a title similar to " do we need more female representation in gaming " and see what the responses are. I guarantee you will get numerous responses that say " no ", no need to change anything. And of course the reason for some people saying no is not necessarily due to misogynistic reasons but in some cases it will be because of that, people just don't like to openly acknowledge it

Typical response when you don't agree with someone... "lets play the old troll card" instead of engaging in debate

Admittedly I haven't looked at how things went down in places like reddit or 4chan, but in the confines of what I have seen, my perception matches that of TrueNeutral: For the record, I don't consider abuse acceptable on either side of this (or any) conflict. @BruceVC But don't you see a problem with taking a descriptive term that an entire subculture made up of a diverse set of people have chosen to positively self-identify with, and trying to overload it with a narrow and negative meaning for rhetorical purposes? Even when sincere (rather than just an excuse for demeaning the whole group), I would call that "negligent lack of clarity" at best, and "intolerant dismissal of other people's identity" at worst. Imagine if someone started a campaign of rudely lashing out against "LGBT people". Or "members of hip-hop culture". Or "Muslims". And when confronted with backlash, said "What's your problem? I consider that label to only refer to bad people!" ...Would you respond with "Oh, okay, carry on then"? I wouldn't... No I don't really see any problem with what I am saying and trying to explain. But you have given me a way to make an excellent analogy to reinforce my point. Personally I have an issue with Muslim extremists, like ISIS and Boko Haram, but not with Muslims. But within the Muslim community there are some people who think criticism directed at extremism is the same as criticism towards the whole Muslim community. But its not and that's not what I am saying. Its not my fault that people can't distinguish between the two. The word "gamer" doesn't mean all gamers, but if people keep wanting to believe that they are creating unnecessary vexation for themselves

Hi JFSOCC "waves" How long are you in Italy for?

I don't understand why Scotland would really to separate from such a prestigious and successful union as the UK especially with all the new concessions they are getting. I have heard most of the arguments from the SNP and Alex Salmond but they wouldn't convince me if I was Scottish I think this type of independence is overrated

I know I shouldn't find these posts funny but they did make me laugh But aren't you worried about the economic impact, the Pound has already lost some value and that's just because the Yes vote is ahead, imagine how the pound will be hammered if they actually get independence?

That doesn't bother me, I'm happy to wait that long

I have also had to fake certain expected emotions at funerals and other events. But I think we all grieve in our own way. You will probably get upset later but in your own time

If only the English language had adjectives. It means a gaming enthusiast, simple, believe it always has done that, even though you and your kind would like to redefine it to suit this purpose. In any event, that's still crap - if it means white males, that means all white males are the bad guy then ? Okay I see you guys still don't understand what the term "gamer " refers to. I'll try to explain it one more time because I have honestly explained this about 5-6 times on this thread alone The term "gamer" does not refer to all white male gamers. If you look at websites like RPS or the Escapist the majority of there fan demographic happens to be white males ( the same as these forums) so why would these websites attack and insult there own fanbase with a generalization that "gamers " are misogynistic. What business sense would this make? What are advantages of this? Its like opening a Mexican restaurant and saying you hate Mexicans. Its illogical So the answer is "they wouldn't and they haven't ". The word "gamer " refers to white males who refuse to recognise inclusivity and changes to the gaming industry. The words "the gamer is dead" applies to people who don't want to be part of the change in the industry. But this is also figurative, you mustn't take it literally. It doesn't actually mean people who are opposed to change must be killed, it just means many websites who support inclusivity won't tolerate an opinion that says " gaming is the select domain of men" You guys have decided to create your own interpretation for this word for reasons that stupefy me. If you disagree with me please find one article posted about this development, outside of radical feminists who I admit many seem to have an inbred dislike of men, that says the term "gamer" refers to all white males? In summary no gaming journalist is going to that stupid to basically suggest that the largest gaming demographic in most gaming genres , white males, is irrelevant and bigoted. That is not what gaming journalists are saying

I've been assured by people supporting the journalists that this is not the case, which is the problem. These journalists carry weight and have reach - the moment those articles went up, the connection has been made and some of their readers went on the attack. No half-hearted retraction such as the one from Rock Paper Shotgun is going to matter. What do you think the word " gamer" means in this topic? Every single person who plays games? White males who play games or something else?

You wrong. Personally i support continue of war (but not support neither side in this war) and don't like such politics of Russian government (and don't like Russian government also). Such events as wars is very good for progressive society changes (WW1 - give birth for USSR, WW2 crush colonialism), isolation of Russia is very good too... Just reminder about World Revolution 2.0. http://scepsis.net/eng/articles/id_10. I'm confused by your perspective now? Do you not support Putin and political aspirations?

Yeah that makes sense as well, its more and difficult to convince people to part with there money when there have been several subpar and disappointing KS games

Interesting post, I wonder what's the real reason they won't use funding systems like KS again? I wonder if its more to do with the criticism they received for not adhering to what people perceived the game was suppose to be about ?

Yes there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine and no Russian military support of the separatists

Could be, I think this is more about the fact that this conflict is really spiralling out of control and sanctions are increasing and Russia realizes that a military solution will in the long term harm them more than a diplomatic one. But we can never say for sure what motivates Putin so this just may be a way for Russia to rest and consolidate its military strategy

Oby why has Russia agreed to this ceasefire? I thought Putin didn't care what the West wanted or thought and he just did what he wanted?

Its not a bad read, he positions the whole " yes women are more likely the victims of sexual violence than men but men are also treated more unfairly then women in institutions like family court " in way that is objective So I think its a reasonable article because he does acknowledge the gender inequality that exists in society that effect both men and women

Yes as far as I know it could be still be part of the Commonwealth if it wanted to, but I'm not sure about points like what currency would Scotland use and would they be part of the EU?