BruceVC

No Volo, that is not what I am saying But I will say I think white, heterosexual males are the least most discriminated group in the world. I don't feel the need to defend this demographic because generally its unnecessary. Normally we aren't the targets of hate groups or religious persecution, like the way gay people are targeted by some religious organisations I think what you mean to say is that they are, outside of some countries in Africa, rarely discriminated against for being white. Discriminated against for being male? Could argue that being sent to another country to wage a war you had no interest in, or facing execution is something that happens to males a lot more than it does to females, but eh. In most of our countries that was a few generations ago, so let's let that slide. People are often more than just white and male though, and they can certainly be discriminated against those other things which they also are. Because they have red hair, because they are short, because they have asthma and can't run very fast, because they like to play with trains, because they have an accent, because they are jewish, because they are catholic ... or protestant ... or atheist .... Ad infinitum. So... Saying that white males are never discriminated against is just not very helpful. I would have thought my perspective would be obvious but its clear I need to explain further Firstly I never said "white, males are never discriminated against ". I said they are the least discriminated demographic in the world So answer a few questions for me, How many anti-white supremacist groups do you know about ? Please list some groups that exist that explicitly state in there manifesto that the objectives are to ensure the survival of the black race or for that matter any other race apart from the white race and they are fundamentally opposed to white males ? Even Al-Qaeda will accept white males who follow there religious doctrines Please list the countries that have outlawed heterosexual relationship and where the death penalty exists for anyone engaging in heterosexual relationships. This is the reality that gay people face in certain countries Please list the countries where men can't work or cant drive ? I can list countries where women have no rights whatsoever Please tell me what countries in the world ban marriage between a man a women and refuse to recognise these types of unions, these are the realities many gay people face who want to get married I can continue to list examples but I think my point should be clear. When I say "white, heterosexual males are the least discriminated group in the world" I'm talking about the big picture in the world. Not just the gaming industry. And I stand by my point that its an absurd suggestion that white males are generally the victims of discrimination and bigotry We are not, we have it easy.

Oh was just commenting on how fun it can be to mess with people by intentionally lying to them to aid in manipulating them somehow. Not seeing how that is really sociopathic, I guess you lack empathy by treating people as tools ? But eh, I've done that with my relatives, interesting to watch the false gossip spread and them react to things that never actually happened. Do you think its normal behaviour to think its fun to lie to people in order to manipulate them? I'm not judging you, I just want to understand what you consider normal?

That looks amazing, I wonder if it will be as challenging as the first one ?

I'm overweight, no degree and live with my brother. I have been doing contract work for the past years because no one wants to give me a set job. Whatever you issue you have, I win. When you feel like crap, think of that Swedish guy on the Obsidian boards that has it worse. Don't worry Calax and Labadel, I like you guys and think you are cool

No Volo, that is not what I am saying But I will say I think white, heterosexual males are the least most discriminated group in the world. I don't feel the need to defend this demographic because generally its unnecessary. Normally we aren't the targets of hate groups or religious persecution, like the way gay people are targeted by some religious organisations

No Volo, I am opposed to any form of bigotry

This. Bruce I think you mean well, but at the same time you seem to overreact to anyone simply not agreeing with a point made by a feminist. I mean name where excuses were made on behlaf of the people harassing her. If anything, the most common voice has been "she's irrelevant to the main issue anyways so I don't see why people bother harassing her." If I may...?? Why are you so passionate about the feminist movement? Why does it interest you so much? I don't mean that to sound like a pandering attitude, rather I'm merely curious about your backround and what your personal motivation is for liking and supporting the feminist side of things so loyally. I mean, you aren't a woman. Not being a woman doesn't mean you can't show interest (I would show interest in supporting equality for gays, blacks, women and klingons, and I'm none of those) or support, but it does mean your reasoning isn't as straightforward as "it benefits me," thus I'm curious. I am a liberal and due to the fact I grew up during Apartheid I have experienced first hand what happens when bigotry and discrimination become institutionalized. Its destroys people and severely impacts there dignity So I am opposed to any form of bigotry that includes sexism, homophobia and racism. As far as sexism is concerned in the gaming industry I am not saying the entire industry needs to change and misogyny is rife but there are certain changes that should happen purely in the interest of inclusivity. I don't think this means a paradigm shift in the development of all games but developers need to be aware of there entire fanbase. And many companies like Bioware and Obsidian are already aware of this and ensure there games are inclusive to all demographics

Well from the name, it's an advocate for women. Usually the case anyway, though these days I am told it is to mean someone who wants "equal rights". Okay well I'm glad you aren't suggesting it means a hatred of men or the marginalization of men. Please can you explain this to Volo, he will listen to you as you guys are both from Canada Well I know what the word means, it means where people believe in equal rights for women in the eyes of society and in the law. This is of course campaigned and implemented in different ways based on the individual case I don't know about that Wolf Wozniak case, do you have a link? http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikkain/files/2014/09/wozniak3.png It has been removed since, but the entire lead up and aftermath can be found here, up to the point where he apologizes for bringing it up. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E3BZP3PHeQE/U_qaRte_a1I/AAAAAAAAAr0/giIdTegX16w/s1600/zqsexualharassment.PNG The problem with cases such as these is that they tend to get removed out of fear of (more) backlash. Thanks, I'll go through it is? You and your strawmen are hilarious. Suppose I can tell my friends I don't think there is any problems with equality because I think some internet activists are full of ****. I'm missing your logic? I said to you that generalisations are unhelpful. In the post you quoted I used the word " several" not "all", I am not generalising That doesn't mean my post is directed at everyone., Your post about feminist overlords is just fatuous and cannot be substantiated by a rational mind. Its just done to get a reaction where people will say " yes those annoying feminist overlords...the nerve of them"

Stow it, Gamer. Accept your feminist overlords. This type of comment is unhelpful to this debate, all it does is encourage more invective against the campaign for gender equality which is not the same thing that radical feminists believe. And radical feminists are really what most people are opposed to. Its never good to paint everyone with the same brush KP

I didn't see that but I have watching loads of commentary today and its really interesting how the polls are still very tight. No one can say with certainty which way it is going to go. I could be wrong here, but I believe it will be against independence. It's hard to get people to actually go out and vote against the status quo. I'm guessing a noteworthy amount of the pro-independence block will simply not show up. On this issue I am not an expert though. I think it boils down to the undecided voters as they still represent an influential block Lets hope you are wrong I see Alan Greenspan is spelling economic doom and gloom for Scotland if they vote Yes, but I don't know how much credibility he carries anymore ?

Well from the name, it's an advocate for women. Usually the case anyway, though these days I am told it is to mean someone who wants "equal rights". Okay well I'm glad you aren't suggesting it means a hatred of men or the marginalization of men. Please can you explain this to Volo, he will listen to you as you guys are both from Canada Well I know what the word means, it means where people believe in equal rights for women in the eyes of society and in the law. This is of course campaigned and implemented in different ways based on the individual case I don't know about that Wolf Wozniak case, do you have a link?

Still rolling with this, eh ? Kind of funny to see someone argue a word means something else than what was written. Well, at least you've not caught on to the 'wrong side of history' talking point. Quinn's nothing special, so if people want to be skeptical of her writing a naturally biased article, big deal. Well, other than people like you when it comes to women, anyway. Also https://archive.today/BQbD7 Polygon didn't get the "listen and believe" memo about women it seems. What's your definition of the word feminist Malc?

I didn't see that but I have watching loads of commentary today and its really interesting how the polls are still very tight. No one can say with certainty which way it is going to go.

This, I can't speak for others but I am definitely not a troll As a way to dismiss my point people have accused me of being a troll but it has no substance. I sometimes joke with people but that's not the same thing as trolling In fact being called a troll is one of the few things that really annoy me

That's a good story Gromnir and I'm also glad you were cleared. I must say you do seem to have been exposed to some of the worst aspects of human nature, like when you use to walk with your sister and protect her after she was attacked at Varsity. But generally you don't seem that jaded with humanity and that's an impressive character trait And I agree about the truth being subjective for some, there are several people on this forum who are desperate to believe and convince themselves that the cause for gender equality isn't real and there aren't real instances of sexism and misogyny that exist in society and in gaming culture. So for example this article about Zoe Quinn and how she was victimised is automatically dismissed and excuses are made for how people treated her because it doesn't suit there narrative. Also despite the fact that " gamers" doesn't mean all gamers people just continue to give there own definition of the word and express "outrage" and "anger" . They aren't interested in the what the word really means

Volo you are intentionally misunderstanding what he is saying. He is not saying that at all

This is an excellent post, very sincere and accurate. I hope people take the time to understand the points you are making

Don't joke but that's exactly what Volo believes, he has said several times that a true believer in gender equality would support full contact sport between male and female sports teams

Volo I'm not going to dignify that comment with a decent response, its just utterly fallacious and ridiculous

Oh, I agree. I never said anything about making females superior, so I'm not sure where this "femi-nazi" vibe is coming from. All I said was that it's extremely obvious, looking at the art of most CRPGs, that they're pandering to an exclusively male aesthetic. It's time that changed. The art I'm seeing for Pillars of Eternity gives me hope! Volo doesn't understand what the word feminism means. He thinks it means a hatred of men and the fact that women must be superior to men at the expense of men. He just doesn't get it.

So we now have to shoulder responsibility for every troll who harassed any woman? No but you can acknowledge it and stop dismissing it whenever the issues comes up. Its not such an unreasonable expectation KP.

Excellent article, I suggest everyone reads it. It highlights the depths that people opposed to gender equality will stoop to. Its both pathetic and concerning

So as someone who lives in a country where some political parties still have the name " Communism " in there title I find this thread interesting I think a hybrid socialist/capitalist political system is probably the most sustainable and reasonable. So if you take the Scandinavian countries they have excellent government controlled institutions like healthcare and education but the economy is driven by strong independent corporations If you look at the USA they are the strongest economy in the world yet they don't have an effective healthcare for all its citizens. If you can't pay for decent healthcare what happens? Obviously Obamacare is attempting to address this But the success of the Scandinavian countries is dependant on two factors, high employment rate and relatively high tax rate that everyone contributes towards In South Africa we have the government trying to deliver almost free services that include housing, education, electricity and healthcare to people that are unemployed and the tax base is put on immense pressure to pay for this because of our high unemployment rate. So the result is an abysmal successful implementation of public sector services and people like me use the private sector for healthcare and education. This makes our quality of life better than people who rely on the government for services. So we have this growing social divide between the " haves and have not's" But the solution to all of this is relatively simple, a decent education will lead to people getting a decent job and they will uplift themselves without needing the government to assist them So I support a mixed Socialist and Capitalist system of government like the Scandinavians, its just not always feasible

I feel sorry for someone that full of hate. Good to know that the SJWs are showing their true colors though. Maybe you guys should create a thread dedicated to men where some of you can openly dismiss and make a mockery of gender equality under the guise that it is " satire" and "just a joke" so you are free from moderation. That not a bad idea, oh wait...you already have a thread like that

I have enough attractive female friends that I don't need to imagine. I'm glad you are over that self-imposed guilt that you were thinking comes with using the services of escorts KP And you right, once you get to know them they can become friends