BruceVC

The very problem with this is that if this were their stance and their argument, then they've already lost by having people on their side partaking in the very same actions. It'd require leading by example, which clearly isn't happening. Not neccesarily by guilt of the person you've quoted, but merely by people sharing her opinions who could NOT manage to be "above it all" when it came to the bickering. You shouldn't look at this in the context of "lost " and "won", because if you do anyone opposed to inclusivity has " lost " because never before has the gaming industry been more concerned and determined to create games that appeal to the whole fanbase. And to honest its irrelevant that people on 4chan think that this is a bad idea as they don't officially develop games , this is way the industry is going Rather see this as something positive as now games will cater for all people where appropriate I want neither of those options, I want high quality games that are inclusive. And this is very achievable in most cases if you look at games from Bioware and Obsidian And yes this doesn't necessarily apply to Indie developers who have budgetary considerations

am personally considering shelving this until the first major patch... as is our ordinary custom with pc games. we never buy pc games til at least after the first patch, and recently we have been waiting for up to a year after release. I also only play any PC game after the first official patch. So normally I wait for a month or so

Sorry for trying to help Volo

No changes in the industry around more inclusivity is a good thing, you won't find any serious developer or publishers that don't say this is a something they believe in. So if your argument is " I don't want any change at all because I'm happy with how things are " this wouldn't be a very well supported view from the circles of people that matter.

Depending on how old you are it's possibly par for the course. In my experience, most women start going nuts by 25 at the latest (many men too). It's usually a function of how anchored one is in reality and how much one is or isn't in denial of X. Once you start down the path of denial it's only downhill into the abyss of insanity. A lot of people tread that path, more than not these days it seems. I'd go so far as to say bat**** crazy is getting to be the norm in the western world. Yeah I hear you, denial is a systemic problem we face in many modern societies. Would you believe me if I told you that there are some people who deny that Al-Qaeda committed 9/11?

Yes this is much better than Twitter comments, well done young grasshopper But I'll be honest I am missing the reason for all this attention on this issue, I'm not sure what you are saying this proves or means. This is how I understand the chain of events the 4chan forums leaked photos of nude celebrities the celebs are now hurt, embarrassed and angry ensure there publicists start doing anything to close down or harm 4chan This includes hiring a company to create this viral marketing which they admit to, so no conspiracy there Where is the issues? They admitted to it after the fact and that they admitted to it is irrelevant when compared to the fact that they intentionally created a false harassment campaign to create controversy and spread misinformation (if you don't consider that to be wrong I don't know what to tell you). I find it relevant because it demonstrates how easy it is as well as how willing the nebulous "they" (meaning the cultural marxists and third wave feminists who wish to control media messages who I am assuming are responsible for this) are to create falsify information and spread it which is wrong regardless of what their intentions are. The end justifies the means to these people and that is an objectively awful way to conduct yourself. Also, it is relevant in the way that it demonstrates that the people creating the false narratives still don't do the research as they continue to pretend that 4chan is some kind of single entity rather than a random place for people with all kinds of opinions to gather anonymously. I also find it relevant because before they admitted it, the only sources reporting on the truth were social media posts while journalists and other media picked it up as the truth which goes again to prove that what is posted on social media should not be dismissed out of hand rather than looked at on a case by case basis. So essentially, it's very relevant as it lends credibility to a lot of the claims of conspiracy and collusion by GamerGaters. Kazerad sums up most of my current feelings on GamerGate pretty well and reinforces to me why it is important: http://kazerad.tumblr.com/post/98113646063/gamergate-primer-finale Especially this section: @ TN I want to discuss this further. I know you are concerned about this but we need to establish the facts and the chain of events as those are important if this development was truly done surreptitiously to manipulate people or it was just a marketing stunt. If its the latter then its fine, if its former then its not First question that's relevant is did Rantic admit they started this campaign and then change the Website to show " Barack Obama and calls on people to support the calls to shut down the site" or were they exposed and only then did they change the website? It seems Rantic did this on there own but I'm not sure?

Many things can cause BSOD, but it is normally an incompatibility between hardware and software. I would start with your video drivers, have you updated them?

I don't agree with this logic, the West gave these countries the chance to implement there own versions of Democracy. In some cases, like Iraq, they failed to do this. We can't live in a world where we say " yes brutal dictators are acceptable because they are able to manage complicated and historical sectarian conflicts within there countries"

What do you do in the industry Volo?

Yes this is much better than Twitter comments, well done young grasshopper But I'll be honest I am missing the reason for all this attention on this issue, I'm not sure what you are saying this proves or means. This is how I understand the chain of events the 4chan forums leaked photos of nude celebrities the celebs are now hurt, embarrassed and angry ensure there publicists start doing anything to close down or harm 4chan This includes hiring a company to create this viral marketing which they admit to, so no conspiracy there Where is the issues?

Well good job if you saw through the facade of it being a regular modern war shooter, because the Spec Ops was absolutely trying to fool people at the beginning, and in these linear plot-driven games, you will do these horrible things. You've done it before in one of the many action games you've played, either with consequences ignored or your dumb protagonist congratulated, but you have done it, without realizing at times, and will do it again here. I was completely fooled, I thought it was just a normal shooter that presented you with some harsh choices. But I also was always comfortable with my choices after I took the time to reflect on them

See, this is why it's become impossible to take a side here. Because the sides don't see it as what it is - consumer revolt. They see it was a battle, a war. And bad stuff that happens is casualties of war. At this point, both sides have become the bad guy because of people's penchant for being overdramatic. Yeah, basically. Also don't forget the whole "you can't really be a moderate/neutral party here" angle, when the self-proclaimed moderates on one side are throwing around charming phrases like "social justice fascists want to force all games to conform to their deplorable and morally bankrupt worldview". @ TN I also want to add that some of you guys, and I mean Nonek specifically, have started throwing around the word SJF.."Social justice fascists" as way to now describe SJW, it was bad enough that for many people the word SJW is actually meant as an insult on most forums but now you have to call us fascists? Do you really think this is fair and reasonable ? What's next? I'm expecting someone to say SJN " Social Justice Nazi's " because that is the way this drama is going for some people Perfectly ok to call you people that. Given your approach of "I know best" and belief the state is the best way for that. You yourself have posted stuff like that 3 or 4 times here. The word fascist is offensive, the word warrior is not. You can make the same point without feeling the need to insult people. I'm surprised I have to even explain this ?

See, this is why it's become impossible to take a side here. Because the sides don't see it as what it is - consumer revolt. They see it was a battle, a war. And bad stuff that happens is casualties of war. At this point, both sides have become the bad guy because of people's penchant for being overdramatic. Yeah, basically. Also don't forget the whole "you can't really be a moderate/neutral party here" angle, when the self-proclaimed moderates on one side are throwing around charming phrases like "social justice fascists want to force all games to conform to their deplorable and morally bankrupt worldview". @ TN I also want to add that some of you guys, and I mean Nonek specifically, have started throwing around the word SJF.."Social justice fascists" as way to now describe SJW, it was bad enough that for many people the word SJW is actually meant as an insult on most forums but now you have to call us fascists? Do you really think this is fair and reasonable ? What's next? I'm expecting someone to say SJN " Social Justice Nazi's " because that is the way this drama is going for some people

I'll join in the wild mass guessing regardless, and hazard the guess that they're of the eminently reasonable "oh my god, this whole thing is dumb" opinion. Nice dodge. Not really, its a very valid reason said in a polite way why Obsidian wouldn't want to be associated with GG I wouldn't if I was a developer. End of the day I consider you guys the more moderate supporters of GG but there are real misogynists who regularly participate in GG. Why would you think that Obsidian that is company that takes its view of gender representation seriously want to be associated with people like that?

Okay thanks for the response I also enjoyed DA2 but WL2 really seems to be getting excellent feedback. And such consensus about a game is rare on these forums

Today is a public holiday in South Africa, its called Heritage Day. Its a day where we celebrate our diversity and the fact we all come from different cultures but we are all South African Its also called Braai ( Barbeque) Day so the idea is people spend the day around the braai with friends and family. And that's always a good time to have a public holiday

Guys quick snap poll because I haven't played this game yet. Which game in your opinion is better, WL2 or DA2 ?

Better? Yes much better, he is hot. Now do you have one with him wearing knee-high boots and fishnet stockings ?

Funny

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation" Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass. As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people. Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about. Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist elementAnd the extremists have been condemned here, so why keep bringing them up? Now that's a strawman, I thought we were talking about why Obsidian doesn't actively support GG? I gave you a reason why, now you asking why am I bringing it up because "that has already been condemneD" Your point has nothing to do why Obsidian may or may not support GG You aren't very good with English. We were talking about how you keep misrepresenting what GamerGate is about, not why Obsidian hasn't said anything about it. Incorrect, since I started posting today I have only raised issues about why Obsidian isn't active on GG. Just because you decided to change the discussion halfway through and now make it about "why am I misrepresenting what GG is about " doesn't change the reason I made the original point So once again nice Strawman

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation" Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass. As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people. Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about. Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist element And the extremists have been condemned here, so why keep bringing them up? Now that's a strawman, I thought we were talking about why Obsidian doesn't actively support GG? I gave you a reason why, now you asking why am I bringing it up because "that has already been condemneD" Your point has nothing to do why Obsidian may or may not support GG

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation" Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass. As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people. Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about. Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist element

And that's the nice thing about these forums, we are all entitled to our opinions. And maybe you right

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation" Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

Maybe the reason that Obsidian doesn't openly support GG is that they fundamentally don't support it because they feel the way Zoe and others have been treated is worse than any perceived outrage certain gamers feel due to the subjective definition of a word? Did it ever occur to you guys that maybe they just think GG is ultimately a flawed initiative?