BruceVC

I may not agree with that sentiment but I can understand it. So one of the objectives of GG is to basically close down websites that have been very critical of the movement. That's fine, but once again how do you think that will be achieved? The obvious answer is to get various companies to pull there sponsorship. But don't you think this would have already happened by now ? Like we saw with Intel and Gamasutra? So if sponsors were going to all pull there advertising based on this GG objective why hasn't it happened? I can give you my reason why but I would prefer you gave me your view

You expect this site to open up a forum for all parties to have a reasonable discussion? How about sites like Polygon opening up their site for a forum to all and to have a reasonable discussion to raise concerns in the gaming industry? Wouldn't that have been a logical and reasonable way to get the gaming media to discuss the issues. Or don't you hold them up to the same standard as GG? And wouldn't you agree that the next step for the gaming media is to evolve with certain standards that all can agree with. You know like honesty, no bullying, no harassment and all this sort of stuff that different parts of the gaming media should be doing. No Hiro, its clear to me you don't understand the role of gaming websites and there role in this GG furore There is no expectation that any gaming website has to have discussions around the good and bad around GG. Many of these website like Polygon and RPS have been the targets of the GG outrage and since these websites are independently owned I can completely understand why they chose to not support GG. But the reality is I haven't seen any links that directly say " we at RPS don't like GG" they have just decided to not post any stories around them or encourage discussions on there forums because they feel everything has been said that needs to be said That's not the same thing as me saying "GG needs a website where we can discuss all topics about the purpose of GG, the good and the bad". The onus is on GG to get a message across about what they really stand and distance themselves from the extremist element. This is not the role of websites like Gamasutra and Polygon. These websites are fine with the fact that GG doesn't like them and they are prepared to deal with the consequences GG should be asking "how can we get people like BruceVC to support us". And that first step is a cohesive approach that allows proper debate. And twitter could never have achieved that. So I really do support this new GG websites because of the positive steps that can come from it I didn't mean "This isn't your idea, other people also thought of it, stop trying to take the credit.", I meant "This isn't really the same concept as the one you were suggesting.". Also, it doesn't really seem as if you understand it, but the whole anarchyish leaderless uncontrolled rabble is a pretty integral part of this whole thing for a decent amount of GGrs. Acceptance by mainstreamers also isn't the most important thing, most of the older ones of us have gone through periods of being accused of satanism/otherwise being deeply disturbed by regulars, back then it was mainly more conservative/evangelical people, but being alienated by leftists really isn't that different, they just call you different forms of morally corrupt. If mainstreamers don't want to accept us, basically, f*** them. Okay I see what you meant, yes I did misunderstand you. And you right I don't understand how GG expects it going to achieve real meaningful change if it follows this whole " anarchyish leaderless uncontrolled rabble" because that's not something we can measure. You need some sort of real group that exists of real people who will stand by what they say and be prepared to engage in debate. This is why the website is such a good idea Nameless Twitter vitriol will never achieve anything and in fact it just creates a dichotomy and resistance between what changes GG wants to make and what it can realistically implement and effect Now you might say " If mainstreamers don't want to accept us, basically, f*** them" but that's not going to get publishers and people that matter to take the GG objectives seriously because that kind of comment is just seen as radical and will be dismissed by many people outside of this whole debate as " how can be engage with people who are so pugnacious "

You right Barti, so for me when I say "death threats and rape threats " are never acceptable I am referring to how people need to conduct themselves in real life, not just the Internet and forum discussions And the problem is people think that " acceptable" Internet etiquette like I want to "rape you" is really not acceptable for anyone who operates in the real world. And when people get judged, like this Dev, for what he thinks is normal comments there is this surprise from some people that he "was judged, how unfair. He wasn't really going to kill anyone, its just the Internet" That whole argument that there is no need for accountability for what you say on Internet becomes less and less relevant as time goes on especially when it crosses into real life

At last my suggestion to add credibility to the GG movement has been implemented, well done for whoever created this. The site isn't official in any way, it's a nice enough site and all, but it isn't official, and everyone can still use the hashtag regardless of whether they approve of anything the site says. The site itself even states that gamergate is a leaderless mob and thus it isn't pretending to be any real form of authority, it isn't really your idea as much as it's just some random progamergate people deciding to make a website about gamergate. Of course its not really my idea, many people have suggested it I just meant I raised this exact concept on this thread when people asked "how can you make the GG movement more credible " Now the next step is a forum on this website where we can have a reasonable discussion about the good and bad about GG I can't stress enough how this is a logical and reasonable way to get GG to evolve to the next level of it being accepted by mainstream gaming publishers as a real medium to raise concerns in the gaming industry. You could never achieve this type of acceptance through Social Media as it is not tangible

Its alpha, not much to do right now, one or 2 small quests and archery. However it seems its not game for you, no monsters to slay... No monsters to slay ? Unacceptable !!!! The developers need to be sent to jail for misleading the KS fans, how is there implementation of Romance going? Pease tell me they will have Romance in this game?

Unfortunately Libya is always used as an example of " look what happens when the West intervenes in regime change" when in fact they should be saying " look how the West can effectively implement regime change " The West gave the new Libyan government the opportunity to run there own version of Democracy and system of leadership. They can't be held responsible for the sectarian violence that now threatens the overall stability of the country. The West can help liberate countries but it shouldn't be also expected to now run the new governments Seriously? Really? Are you for real? I hope for your sake you're just trolling. What part of what I said do you disagree with, please in future explain what part of what I said you don't seem to like ? Is it the fact that the West help to liberate Libya from Gaddafi? Or is it the fact that West didn't stay on in Libya and tell the Libyans how to run there new government? The idea that the west isn't responsible for what happens after they overthrow and assassinate heads of states should particularly offend anyone capable of basic thought, it's like saying "I'm not responsible for this building collapsing, I just broke the foundations!". And they can be held responsible for the sectarian and tribal violence, because they helped take away the guy who was keeping things under control. The west shouldn't go in and "liberate" countries, when we all ****ing know it'll only make things worse. Either Libya burns in eternal fire, a guy who is just like Sisi is put in charge of things, or we get ourselves a grand new wannabe caliphate of North Africa. Also, it's not some big great secret that the west can go screwing around in third world countries, Gaddafi himself predicted that the west would eventually get on with replacing the other arab leaders after Saddam was offed, everyone already knew that, we certainly didn't need Libya to show us that. Now you have raised something I can actually respond to. You have made some interesting points and I'll respond later, I am in our weekly sales meeting so I can't comment in detail at the moment

At last my suggestion to add credibility to the GG movement has been implemented, well done for whoever created this.

Yes so we have to look at the context and the culture when it comes to death threats Another issue around death threats is the view from gamers, and this applies to the Dev who had his game removed , about what is acceptable comments in relation to the gaming industry For example its become normal and acceptable for some people who support GG to make rape statements and death threats against feminists. So why wouldn't a person who thinks this is normal also think its not normal to say they will kill someone at a publisher like Valve? Of course its unacceptable but that doesn't change the reality of how some people think

I thought you were going to say " you missing hot chicks with sticks "

You want someone who disagrees with you that you can have an actual debate with? This is just a weak and irrelevant point that I was accused of during the interminable " Drama in the gaming industry " thread You don't like what I have to say so you think a proper response is something like " Bruce doesn't like to engage in debate " I try to answer all realistic responses, I have responded to you several times. But once again you don't like my answer so all you can say " Bruce doesn't like to engage in debate" Your comment doesn't reflect the reality of my posting etiquette The problem with debating you in this instance is that you've such a minority opinion in this case that it'll be unfair. There'll be 5+ different people ready to leap at any mistakes you make, and attack your position in different ways. That's true, there is only one of me and I have limited time. So I can't respond to everyone all the time. But sometimes one response addresses several disagreements, so for example if several people say " how can you say people in Western countries are happy with the state of government service delivery" I can say " there is a report that the UN used to create this benchmark of happiness and it incorporates a wide range of factors" I shouldn't have to respond to each person with the same comment?

Is it? Or is it easier just not to care? It doesn't mean you need to get depressed and lament the state of the world but I would say its abnormal to hear about a real crisis or event around the world where people are suffering and not show any empathy?

You want someone who disagrees with you that you can have an actual debate with? This is just a weak and irrelevant point that I was accused of during the interminable " Drama in the gaming industry " thread You don't like what I have to say so you think a proper response is something like " Bruce doesn't like to engage in debate " I try to answer all realistic responses, I have responded to you several times. But once again you don't like my answer so all you can say " Bruce doesn't like to engage in debate" Your comment doesn't reflect the reality of my posting etiquette

Unfortunately Libya is always used as an example of " look what happens when the West intervenes in regime change" when in fact they should be saying " look how the West can effectively implement regime change " The West gave the new Libyan government the opportunity to run there own version of Democracy and system of leadership. They can't be held responsible for the sectarian violence that now threatens the overall stability of the country. The West can help liberate countries but it shouldn't be also expected to now run the new governments Seriously? Really? Are you for real? I hope for your sake you're just trolling. What part of what I said do you disagree with, please in future explain what part of what I said you don't seem to like ? Is it the fact that the West help to liberate Libya from Gaddafi? Or is it the fact that West didn't stay on in Libya and tell the Libyans how to run there new government? At times that's an accurate observation, but also there are many people who are misinformed about certain events and topics. And when I present a different but accurate perspective they automatically disagree because its not what they want to hear For example take this thread. People don't want to know that the West offers its citizens the best quality of life compared to other systems of government. The reasons for this will vary but many people who disagree with me actually live in Western countries and currently are disillusioned with how there current governments operate, so the thought of acknowledging that Western governments are the best in the world is anathema to them. But that doesn't change the facts, and the facts are simple. The West has the happiest citizens and the governments of those countries and there ability to deliver services are directly related to this happiness. Therefore how can you not say " the Governments of the West are the best run governments in the world " Maybe someone could give examples of governments that have happier citizens than the West? I asked for this several times and people despite disagreeing with me couldn't produce a single link disputing what I have said J

No Volo, you are still one of the few people who believes that and that type of perspective is just ignored by people who try to have this debate in a meaningful way

Unfortunately Libya is always used as an example of " look what happens when the West intervenes in regime change" when in fact they should be saying " look how the West can effectively implement regime change " The West gave the new Libyan government the opportunity to run there own version of Democracy and system of leadership. They can't be held responsible for the sectarian violence that now threatens the overall stability of the country. The West can help liberate countries but it shouldn't be also expected to now run the new governments

Because it shows how unimportant having a western government is when you're one of these dumb brown countries who don't tow the line and completely submit to the will and exploitation of the superior "western governments". You've made the mistake of looking at the supposed greatness of the "western governments" without addressing the reality of how they're maintained. I agree, I doubt the people of Haiti will care about this survey. But that doesn't change its significance

Looting? "Looting" is what you got out of that? I wonder ****ing why? I don't have the patience for this. I'm sorry, I don't understand how you can say this story disproves that Western style governments aren't the best in the world as they have the happiest governments I did acknowledge that Western countries have done some bad things. But that doesn't make the first sentence incorrect?

It must be weird for you at times to realize you should be feeling some emotion about an event that has upset everyone else but you just don't feel anything? Not really. People I don't know die every day, murder is wrong obviously but I don't feel the need to act dramatically upset over one involving a total stranger. Wonder how long it is before we have our own Patriot Act. Already everyone is knee jerking to put more armed guards in city halls and Parliament. Fun times ahead. So you don't feel any empathy towards the dead and how they died. This is a form of emotion

I would rather not take the chance of you guys missing out on my post Just start a new SJW thread to talk about this kind of stuff. I'll visit it. No I only post what I consider are valid SJ issues in there own thread. I don't want to overdo it and also I don't really want a dedicated SJ thread, would you ?

It must be weird for you at times to realize you should be feeling some emotion about an event that has upset everyone else but you just don't feel anything?

That's nice Bruce, but I don't see how it's related to this. This thread is the closet thing to a current SJ discussion we have and I didn't want to start new thread just to raise this You could try the Capitalism v. Socialism thread we had a while back. I would rather not take the chance of you guys missing out on my post

That's nice Bruce, but I don't see how it's related to this. This thread is the closet thing to a current SJ discussion we have and I didn't want to start new thread just to raise this

You guys think I'm hardcore and unreasonable in my social justice beliefs. I've just listened to a late night radio discussion where certain people are convinced that 20 years after the end of Apartheid the government must still provide free houses to them, free services and provide a way for them to find a job. They don't want to take responsibility for anything..."the government has to do it for them "

TN I have noticed something that you guys may realize already. I only like to comment on this thread if I have something really unique to add So I don't comment much anymore, I have noticed I'm more chilled on certain levels. So what I'm saying is this thread can create certain frustration, give it a break for a while and see what I mean

I've never heard anyone refer to Russians as being non-white before. For some people whites is only WASP's, or only "Nordic" race. For example Spanish people (and all Mediterraneans) are non white for them. Yep, such persons just are stupid non-educated Nazi's, but as i tell before i see no problems here if someone consider us as non white. During XIX-XX centuries Western Europeans too tarnished this word. Anyway XXI century is time of superriority of Asians and we make rightful choice, when we begin this small confrontation against West. Oby it doesn't matter about the definition that some people may have for the Russian people, you guys have hot strippers...so there is no doubt about the descriptions of the important Russian exports