BruceVC

As I indicated in my past post my thinking, or rather that survey, is not naïve. Its based on fact that Western countries have the happiest citizens due to how there governments provide services and how stable the governments are Also you guys obviously didn't read the report that on the original link, its called World Happiness Report 2013 (PDF) The report is based not only on the GDP of countries but many socio-economic factors contribute towards this data So maybe read that report and tell me what parts you disagree with? In this case ideology just means the Western style system of governments and how they manage there countries. I should have been more clear on this, I apologize

Let’s look at the poorest country in the Western hemisphere: Haiti. In 1915 the Yanks invaded them, massacred thousands of civilians, occupied the land, had the Haitian government dissolved and forbid elections. Of course America’s intentions were noble: “It was obvious that if our occupation was to be beneficial to Haiti and further her progress it was necessary that foreign capital should come to Haiti. Americans could hardly be expected to put their money into plantations and big agricultural enterprises in Haiti if they could not themselves own the land on which their money was to be spent.” After 20 years of occupations America offloaded the occupation onto their despotic puppet dictator Papa Doc and later his son ‘Baby Doc’. Under their rule (with CIA support) tens of thousands were executed, living conditions plummeted and foreign aid went directly into their hands (e.g. In 1980, the IMF provided $22 million to Haiti but $16 million of it ‘disappeared’.) By 1985 (with U.S support) 60% of Haiti’s population had an annual per capita income of $60 or less, sex-slavery was booming, child malnutrition had soared and infant mortality was at an all time high. In 1985 protests began, in 1986 Papa Doc was overthrown and in 1990 “free and fair elections” were held. Competing against 10 comparatively wealthy candidates, it was leftist priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide captured who captured 68 percent of the vote and within 7 months of office crime was beginning to reduce and the flow of refugees had dropped significantly. Unfortunately after only 7 months of office Aristide was overthrown by the American backed Tonton Machoute, Baby’s Doc’s police force, who proceeded a long reign of terror to stamp out those sympathetic to Aristide and those hostile to the previous Doc regime. Naturally the CIA had a active part to play; as popular opinion demanded Aristide’s return the CIA funded a smear campaign painting the priest as mentally insane. Also 300 Haitian refugees were intercepted and sent to Guantanamo Bay. In 1993 the chaos had gotten so bad that Clinton was forced to remove the Haitian military dictator Raol Cedra however rather than punishing military war criminals the Americans instead ensured their safety against the rabble and provided rich retirements. Whilst this was happening the CIA run terror group FRAPH conducted paramilitary death squads to spread terror throughout the countryside. In 1994 Clinton made a deal with Aristide and he returned to Haiti with an American led ‘peacekeeping’ force, the agreement being he can’t stray too far from policies that are acceptable to America. Of course being the lunatic he was Aristide did not stick to his word; instead choosing charge “human rights violators”, raise the minimum wage (which could not support a reasonable standard of living) and abolish the military believing they were simply doing more harm than good. According to Haitian law the President could not run for consecutive five year terms. Because Aristide was overthrown for three years during his first term, which ended in 1996 he should have been allowed these three years. America refused to allow his term to be extended for the three years that he spent in exile. In the 1995 parliamentary elections a pro-Aristide coalition won an overwhelming victory. In the 1996 Presidential elections a pro-Aristide candidate, Rene Preval, won with 88% of the vote. In 2000 another Presidential election was held, this time with Aristide running again. He won, this time with 92% of the vote. America was not fond of these results or Aristides policies and thus heavily funded the opposition parties and various right-wing paramilitary groups. Eventually in 2004 the Aristide government was outgunned (he had significantly shrunk the military) and was overthrown. Clearly this story (which is by no means a unique one) is simply a case of dumb brown people failing to implement the glorious virtues of Western wisdom. Had they done this Haiti would no doubt be an affluent liberal-democratic society. Certainly doesn't imply that imperial countries (and their allies) some how profiteer from the poverty, instability and exploitation of these 'unhappy peoples'. I'm not a expert on the history of Haiti so I'm going to assume that everything you said is true We already know that Western countries were involved in different degrees around colonialism and imperialism, your post is a terrible story and I'm genuinely sorry for how the Haitians have suffered. But how much do you think the looting, and I am not sure the USA actually looted Haiti it seems like they just influenced the political system, and mistreatment of Haiti contributed towards the stability of the USA government now ? Is that the reason that America is the strongest economy in the world? What were the resources that existed on Haiti, was it just land? People often make the point that the reason that Western countries are so economically powerful is due to Colonialism and the looting of Africa and other countries. This seems like a reasonable argument but its specious. Yes there was a time period where, for example, the Europeans generated real wealth from the misfortunes in Africa but the reason that Western countries have stable governments is not because of how they treated the Colonies. And this applies to your Haiti example as well Its because the majority of Western governments ensure there governments are well run and they respect the principles of what a Democracy means. They believe in Presidents\Prime Ministers have limited time in office. They can only serve a limited number of terms Free and fair elections Freedom of speech Freedom of religion A Constitution that is more important than the current government. In other words the Constitution is sacrosanct There are independent institutions that can indict and monitor the presidency The government can be criticised and there is accountability The press is free and not controlled by the government There are more factors than this but I am just highlighting what comes to mind when I think about what living in a Western Democracy means. All these points contribute towards a stable system of government and this allows a stable economy that encourages foreign investment which then leads to growth So the success of Western countries is not due to how they have treated other countries but rather how they do manage there own economies and the system of government is directly related to economic prosperity. And this leads to citizens in those countries being the happiest in the world. So my point and that survey is logical and valid

Before I respond to this I want to be clear I understand your point, are you saying you can't measure happiness because its very subjective. So there are different reasons for happiness and sometimes people create there own happiness at the expense of others?

Awesome news, I am looking forward to your first review of the game because I consider your reviews really reasonable and accurate. So if you say something is good once you've played it I know I will love it

Guys have I not been saying since the beginning that DA:I was going to be epic, it looks like I was right

Yeah that is true, the consideration around Tribalism is still valid in Africa but its becoming less and less important as people recognise the importance of being loyal to the country you live. People still take the cultural influences from there tribe as important, for example they still follow certain customs, but they are committed to the idea of a country first We see that in South Africa. The ANC, which is the governing political party, has a cabinet that consists of all the various black ethnic groups. And they actually go to great lengths to sometimes appoint people purely because they represent a certain smaller black ethnic group Another point is I have heard the argument before that says "colonialism is responsible for many of Africa's woes because they created false borders and forced certain tribes to coexist." That may be true in some cases but I would argue it was inevitable that the various tribal structures in Africa would have to become part of some country. If the West hadn't started colonialism the Chinese would have reached Africa and implemented there own form of control. And you can never go back now, you can never just change the borders because you have real identity and patriotism that's exists in Africa where many people are proud to be a Namibian or a Nigerian. So for me Africa has to learn to work with the borders and the realities of what those borders mean. And that's where we can learn from the various stable Western governments

Because those topics certainly don't have any relevance here. No siree. Couldn't possibly be the complete destruction caused by colonialism and on-going neo-colonialism. Nope. I don't get what you saying? Maybe you can explain why the invasion of Iraq in 2003, or any other relevant Western intervention you disprove of , has anything to do with the fact that the happiest people in the world who have the best quality of life live in Western countries? Its almost like you just can't acknowledge that Western countries have effective governments? They not perfect and there is always room for improvement but they are really ahead of other non-Western governments as we can see from the happiness levels of there citizens"?

7/10? Wouldn't award more than about 3/10 myself, and that only because he got some bites. It's a pure oby topic, just from the exact opposite direction. Initially I was going to make some snarky comment but then I thought " I am partly responsible for this polarisation on these forums " when it comes to discussions on Western culture and Western ideology . And this probably goes back to the Ukraine thread where we all drew lines and became intransigent So I want to make a concerted effort to reach out to you and get you to comment in way that is constructive. So lets take what you just said and why you said it? You have become so convinced in all the faults with the West that when I make a post that is linked by a factual link you assume I must be trolling? I'm not, the facts speak for themselves This is not a discussion about Western foreign policy, this is not a discussion about Western intervention in controversial arenas around the world and why they do it. Lets leave that for other threads This is about a simple political consideration. Western countries offer there citizens the best quality of life and have the happiest citizens. So isn't the corollary of this the fact that Western governments have the best run governments in the world? Why is this point so difficult for you to agree or disagree with? If you disagree with me then post your own list of countries with a valid link that discuss happiness factors so I can review it. If I'm wrong about what countries offer there citizens the best lifestyle then I want to know about it . But all I'm getting with some people who disagree with me on this thread is " you wrong about your list, you must be trolling " The whole question of what type of governments are the most effective is very relevant to me because in Africa at the moment there are several discussions about "what types of governments will allow effective economic transformation to the economically besieged continent " For me its obvious, Africa needs to stay the course and continue to follow Western style democracies, its the only realistic political option IMO that will allow foreign investment and ensure economic stability. The problem in Africa is not around Western style democracies but the fact that several countries have just not implemented Democracies properly. So people are asking " when are we going to see the results of this Democracy system ", when in fact they should be realizing " you won't get the proper investment we need until we correctly implement systems that will give confidence to investors and stability " You will notice I dropped the word superior I'm not a foreign policy expert or anything, but... While being able to elect your government is a good thing, I don't think the biggest problem many countries in Africa have is that they don't have a democracy. To have a democracy first you need the foundations for it. Many of the western democracies have developed these foundations gradually over time. Many countries in Africa don't have these foundations yet, and in some cases it is doubtful if they ever will. A lot of countries in Africa are no more than arbitrary patches of land thought up on a colonial congress with the help of a pencil and a ruler. Honestly you can't be surprised that these states don't manage to function, it would be a miracle if they did. You have raised several applicable points that could explain the state of economic transformation in Africa But here is something you may not know, most African countries received there independence in the 1960's. And they were given working countries and government institutions. The French and British were particular good at doing this, they also wanted the new countries to succeed and sometimes ended up supporting the dictators that followed colonialism. But what happened in the case of almost all African countries was the new governments completely mismanaged the economies, ignored the principles of Democracy, were concerned only with there own tribe and or basically enriched themselves at the expense of there own citizens By the 1980's almost every single African country was bankrupt and needed loans from the IMF to sustain the growth of there countries. Now we fast forward to 2014 and the days of your quintessential African dictator are basically over. There are maybe 2-3 African leaders who are "rulers for life " as the old dictators use to refer to themselves as. So now there is a new narrative, questions in Africa are being asked like " what is role of Africa in the world", " how do we transform our economies" and " lets create the African economic renaissance " So my concern is certain African leaders because of the dislike of Colonialism don't see anything positive from how Western countries run there governments. Yet my original point is still valid. Lets leave the emotion and perceived criticism of the West out of this discussion and acknowledge the positive that we as Africans, and others, can learn form the West. If the citizens of Western countries are the happiest citizens in the world then surly we as Africans should be learning from them and there systems of government and not trying to look to China for political guidance ?

No Volo, as I clearly mentioned Doxxing is never right irrespective of the side you are on Bu you also can't ignore the fact that this young lady is one of the many "causalities " of this interminable debate. She is very misinformed because of all the propaganda, we have the ability to discern what is an acceptable way to conduct ourselves. Not everyone can do that, the result of this whole event was now she understands what is acceptable and what is not We should be happy about that, its one less extremist view and therefore one less possible extremist action we have to worry about and that benefits both sides

You right to a certain a degree, I am also helping there agenda because by vilifying the game I am also drawing attention to it. But end of the day this is a thread around the discussion of games, so I am only discussing this game on this forum and BSN. Its not like I'm going to every website I know and saying " OMG have you guys seen this terrible game and how bad it is "

If you're doxxing; you're intentions are not good. But did you read the article, its obvious she didn't understand what she was really doing. She felt that that guy from GG hated her. There is loads of propaganda going on and that leads people to make misplaced decisions. I think this is a "feel good story " about this whole GG debacle because it has a positive outcome?

We'll see how many lessons they've learned if any. I want to be optimistic too but... with keyboard/mouse controls being a last minute addition, for example, it's pretty obvious they still think that PC gamers are 2-nd class. Without seeming like I'm defending that late decision from Bioware I am a PC gamer only but I have used a Controller successfully on several PC ports like Darksiders and Sleeping Dogs. My gaming experience was fine So my point is "do we really need a M\KB to offer an entertaining RPG experience in a game like DA:I" ? I agree on certain games that the M\KB is the better option but can we see a future where we can play an immersive RPG with a Controller ?

But Volo that's exactly what they want, part of there strategy is a form of manipulation. They are aware that at the moment in the gaming industry certain gamers are very sensitive about being told " what games are acceptable to play and what games are not" So they create a game that is basically a rejection of " politically correct games ". They are relying on people to say " yes I'm going to buy this game as form of protest to being told what I can or can't play " But they are manipulating you into thinking this is entertainment that is going against the trends, when in fact its just garbage. And I'm not suggesting you want to buy this game as you have already said you probably won't. I am just giving context why this game exists

Kind of a nice story. Shame I also though the story was quite sweet, when she said " she was just trying to be a good feminist " Doxxing is obviously wrong and this young lady has got to the point where her idea of fighting the good feminist fight is so misplaced that she feels doxxing is the appropriate response That's the reality for certain people on both sides of this debate, good intentions but terrible approach and response

7/10? Wouldn't award more than about 3/10 myself, and that only because he got some bites. It's a pure oby topic, just from the exact opposite direction. Initially I was going to make some snarky comment but then I thought " I am partly responsible for this polarisation on these forums " when it comes to discussions on Western culture and Western ideology . And this probably goes back to the Ukraine thread where we all drew lines and became intransigent So I want to make a concerted effort to reach out to you and get you to comment in way that is constructive. So lets take what you just said and why you said it? You have become so convinced in all the faults with the West that when I make a post that is linked by a factual link you assume I must be trolling? I'm not, the facts speak for themselves This is not a discussion about Western foreign policy, this is not a discussion about Western intervention in controversial arenas around the world and why they do it. Lets leave that for other threads This is about a simple political consideration. Western countries offer there citizens the best quality of life and have the happiest citizens. So isn't the corollary of this the fact that Western governments have the best run governments in the world? Why is this point so difficult for you to agree or disagree with? If you disagree with me then post your own list of countries with a valid link that discuss happiness factors so I can review it. If I'm wrong about what countries offer there citizens the best lifestyle then I want to know about it . But all I'm getting with some people who disagree with me on this thread is " you wrong about your list, you must be trolling " The whole question of what type of governments are the most effective is very relevant to me because in Africa at the moment there are several discussions about "what types of governments will allow effective economic transformation to the economically besieged continent " For me its obvious, Africa needs to stay the course and continue to follow Western style democracies, its the only realistic political option IMO that will allow foreign investment and ensure economic stability. The problem in Africa is not around Western style democracies but the fact that several countries have just not implemented Democracies properly. So people are asking " when are we going to see the results of this Democracy system ", when in fact they should be realizing " you won't get the proper investment we need until we correctly implement systems that will give confidence to investors and stability " You will notice I dropped the word superior

Nonek I doubt many people will believe your assessment of the press. Its far too negative and is the type of speech you would make when you want to pander to people who believe in conspiracy theories

Well that's an amazing endorsement of Denmark, very sincere and interesting. Good post

Let us know your opinion on Grimrock 2, you and I both enjoyed the first one so I'm keen for your feedback

Another factor I'd say is highly important? Weather. Countless studies regarding suicide rates have shown suicide rates spike in the absence of sun. So Obama offers gay rights and weed while Putin offers babies and conservatively dressed women? " So Obama offers gay rights and weed while Putin offers babies and conservatively dressed women" That comment made me laugh because that's exactly the propaganda message its trying to convey

What is the difference between the two links, has it something to do with the website ? I have a moral objection against the website. You wouldn't buy chocolates from ISIS would you? Anyways, someone posted it somewhere else so NVM No I wouldn't buy chocolates from ISIS, you know me well Orog

What is the difference between the two links, has it something to do with the website ?

I agree with you, globally the press has gone to ****, but it gals me when people here hold up the Western press as the beacon of truth and objectivity. There is no such thing as a perfect international News Chanel that is completely 100 % objective all the time around all news stories But that doesn't mean the various news stories or editorials that we can see are all wrong, are aligned with governments or the stories they break can't be corroborated and proven true through multiple sources. So in other words most of the press does a good job at bringing us valid information rather than bringing us misinformation due to some surreptitious agenda So I'm sure what your point is, we know that there are some issues already with all news reporting. And this applies to Western and non-Western channels ?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/17/news/un-ebola-funding/index.html Wow, not a very good first effort from the world. The only country that gets a pass from being ashamed is the USA which is independently committing resources to the crisis I'm sure the donations will start coming in

Okay I see your point and its valid Let me ask you a different question, considering all the factors that constitute a government and how that effects the happiness of its citizens what would you say are factors outside of what the government influences that would make its citizens happy? And I know there are several but I'm interested in a scenario where you can say " country x is really happy and its got nothing to do with how the government is run "

Do you dispute the ability of the UN or any similar organisation to ever to be able to produce any kind of accurate reporting about trends and global statistics?