BruceVC

Well if you'll give me a second, I've got a rather large wall of text I think you should read. Allow me to give you a hypothetical: I'm disabled....that part's not hypothetical, that's true. I was born with one leg and have been disabled my whole life; having two legs would feel as alien to me as having one leg would feel for you. Being disabled and seeing as we're at least decently uncommon in most regions, there's this effect where oftentimes if people hear touching stories or news stories involving disabled people, they get forwarded to me. You may have heard African Americans complain they get stupid comments from white people when they're the one black friend. It sorta functions like this. Bladerunner? Yep, I've heard of him, and not on my own or because I care, but because everyone says "LOOK LONGKNIFE A DISABLED GUY WHO RUNS FAST, YOU CAN TOO!!" Ok one, no I can't cause those costs thousands of dollars and I don't have that, two, if you did some research you'd know those regularly get banned from races for making disabled guys run inhumanely fast with comparatively tiny effort, and three, who the HELL said I have this dream of running fast wtf?? The recent story about Kanye West? Yep, got that too. Nipped it in the butt early and posted a blanket statement response on my facebook (which I rarely ever use) to stop them. So as you can see, I too can get involved with "discrimination" or "stereotyping" or whatever you wanna call it. I put it all in quotations cause I wouldn't exactly call it that and I see no reason to freak about it. Now let's say, hypothetically, that I were to tell you all of that DID bother me and that I find it utterly disgusting how under-represented disabled people are in video games. You think the representation of female protagonists is barren? Try the disabled. I could easily compile a list of female protagonists that's by no means small (Samus, Lara Croft, Faith, Kazooie of Banjo and Kazooie, Bayonetta, etc etc), but you'd struggle to name a single disabled protagonist. And let's be real here. There is a serious struggle amidst the disabled community. But it's not the one you'd expect. And I think it's one YOU'D be wise to listen to and hear out. So now for the hypothetical. Let's say I came to you claiming I was mortified by what Kanye West did and that I think we should ALL boycott him. After all, that jackass made a spectacle of two disabled people right? What an ****, everyone with common sense should boycott and shun the guy much like Ceelo Green is being boycotted for his rape comments, and anyone who disagrees simply doesn't understand, sympathize with and respect the disabled community enough. We don't have a fancy word like sexist or racist (proof of how discriminated against we are!!), but if there was one, it'd apply to Kanye and anyone that refuses to boycott him. I get the sense that I could say the above paragraph to you and you'd be behind me 100%. Or hell, maybe you even read it and thought it's a good idea with extremely valid points, hypothetical or not. Here's the problem.... When you lack a personal motivation where the situation effects you directly and on a personal level, there's this element of not knowing how much is too much. You cannot accurately judge the difference between "equality" and "entitlement." You can, but if you do so and you get an angry, entitled disabled person screaming at you for how hateful and discriminatory you're being...? You'll likely back down and take his side and adopt his stance. You dunno if he's right about you or if he's actually entitled. So, in fear of being discriminatory and with an attitude of loving everyone and wanting equality for all and knowing equality is the right thing to do, you adopt his argument and do as he says. So how do you know when you've wound up being a shield for an entitled person who's self-interested and doesn't actually care about the cause beyond how it can benefit them personally? Someone who doesn't only want equality, but rather wants their group to have an advantage and to get more, and all that only due to self-interest and the fact it'd profit them themselves? (aka if they succeeded and got their group special recognition, these very same people would turn on their fellow members of their group to try and argue they THEMSELVES deserve even more special recognition) In all due respect, I think that's your problem. You mean well - NO ONE is doubting that or saying you don't (cept 1 or 2 who I'm sure could possibly read this post, calm down and apologize to you before agreeing with me. Maybe, who knows) - but the way you're taking the stances is rather....blind. And you may think to yourself: "well my methodology isn't perfect, but at least this way I assure equality!" That's just it: you don't. I'll wrap this up with some real life and relevant stories. True stories that actually happened and affected me life. Some time after I was born, my mom had an encounter with a disabled man in town. The disabled guy was well known. Why? Well he was stuck in an electric wheelchair and largely paralyzed (could move his mouth somewhat and anything above), and more importantly, he was a f***ing ****. He got jollies out of being **** to people or even ramming them with his wheelchair, but often times even the victims themselves would LET HIM out of pity for him, or a distorted belief that it's ok to be an **** cause you're disabled. Well one day this guy tried rammed his wheelchair into my mom for whatever reason and she was understandably pissed, but of course only walked away. (say of course not because he's disabled, but because most people would walk away and not start **** or pick a fight) Later that same day, she happened to see him out the window of a cafe trying to ram another person, though this time he hit the curb and tipped his wheelchair. He was stuck there, helpless. After some consideration my mom decided to go pick him up and put him back on his wheels. After doing so, she asked "are you ok?" His response? Though he struggled to speak, he managed to piece together a nice "f*** you" before speeding off again. This guy, luckily, was kind of a point that had influenced how I was raised. When I was born, my mom was freaking out cause I was missing a leg and she didn't know how to raise a disabled child. By mere chance, she one day awkwardly approached a disabled couple that would later be my Godparents. Both were paralyzed from the waist down and one would later work under the Clinton administration in disabled rights (and passed away somewhat recently, RIP :C). When my mom approached them asking for help, at first they looked at her like she was crazy, but then realized why she was asking. When she asked how to raise me and what to do special for me? Their response? "You don't." You don't do anything special for me. Sure ok, if I'm in a wheelchair one day and kindly ask that you get the door for me, sure, but don't go thinking omg I'm disabled so that gives me a pass to be as lazy as I want or whatever. Be realistic about it. Best advice they could've given. I was raised in such a way that, well, just last week I met friends of friends and it took them DAYS to realize I was disabled. What finally gave me away was we had to walk down a ridiculously steep slope that had everyone uncomfortable from walking on it, and I had to warn my friends in advance that I wasn't sure how my prosthetic would handle it and so I'd need to take it slow. I don't go screaming and crying if someone takes my disabled parking space cause I know I can manage. I DON'T need it; save it for another guy who does. Likewise the bus system for my town expects people to surrender their seat to those who need it more and sometimes someone will notice my leg and offer. No, I don't need it, I'm fine. Me standing is probably about on par with you standing, so I feel it'd be unjust if I took that offer unless I truly am in pain that day. The above-mentioned struggle within the disabled community? It's a struggle that so many of us grow up to be spoiled **** BECAUSE we're constantly given special treatment by people too afraid to have an opinion and say "I'm not discriminating, you're just being an entitled little ass." I've seen it so many times and it's sad. So many disabled people grow up lacking confidence, spoiled rotten or expecting special treatment because people give it to them. The pity and attention feels good and yes, as kids who don't know better, they feed off of it. You're just as capable of hurting a disabled person by enabling a personality-damaging trait to develop by pitying them as you are capable of hurting them via neglect. Humans adapt. Charles Darwin never said the strongest, the smartest, or the fastest survive. He said those most capable of adapting to their scenario, their living conditions and the hand that life dealt them are the ones that will survive and flourish. As such, yes, the disabled adapt to be disabled. I've gotten multiple looks for how fast I am on crutches, I've found I've got a surprising amount of upper body strength from them, and I can carry mutliple bags of groceries home and up stairs...on crutches. For you? You'd fall on your ass and hurt yourself, but this is my life, so I've adapted. People need to recognize that and realize just because the situation seems tough for you doesn't mean it's tough for the disabled person. Try to be objective with it. Ask yourself if you think they truly need the help or if it seems like it's being used as an excuse. If they ask you to open a door ok, but if they ask you to go buy their groceries....? Motherf***er if you can't buy your groceries cause you're in a wheelchair, then you're dumb as rocks, you can't adapt and you deserve to starve to death. Tell him to buy his own damned groceries. And just for clarity, no it's not outrageous if a guy on crutches requests help carrying groceries up stairs. :D I'm more daring than others and don't fault others for not trying. I often don't learn to run with new prosthetics because the advice on learning how to run I'm given is "JUST GO AND U'LL FALL ON UR FACE A LOT BUT DUN WORRY U'LL GET IT" and I think "yeeeeah screw that, it's not like I need to run that often in a day-to-day scenario anyways..." And the Kanye West story? Everyone asks me how offended I am. The truth? When I heard someone took off their leg and waved it in the air to show him? Lucky bastard!! I wish I got handed a free excuse to take my leg off and wave it around. You ever seen how much people freak out due to that? It's fun as hell. Used to stick my leg out the school bus window for that exact reason until I got told that's too dangerous and had to stop. I promise you the two disabled people at Kanye's concert was ok, and the disabled community does NOT need nor deserve a free pity party because some idiot forgot we exist. So yeah, please, take that all as a lesson. Take it as two. Take it as a lesson that you cannot and will not fully understand minority groups you're not involved with, but you can't let that lead you to adamantly defend ANY minority who screams discrimination, because some of them ARE infact just entitled and using their position. Likewise, sometimes protecting a person like that actually harms them. It encourages bad habits and bad personality traits which eventually robs them of more than they realize; guess how many friends disabled wheelchair d-bag who would ram people had? He had about as many as he had functioning limbs. ;P I get you want gender equality. A LOT of us do. But this? This isn't it. You want gender equality? Go ask corporations why women get paid less. Go confront them about their admittance that women who want kids are less likely to get hired. If you really wanna tackle the issue and want a practical solution, the largest and most significant frontier where gender inequality is actually a real thing is the work world. Video games? Specifically when it involves messages spouted by people like Anita? Yeah, this isn't it. I'd be willing to bet the female protagonist quota in video games exceeds that of female protagonists found within movies or gender-neutral (aka not My Little Pony, GI Joe or shows geared towards one gender) TV shows. And more importantly, the very group so fervently spouting this feminist dogma has been caught in lies. MULTIPLE TIMES. It's time to sit down and think it through and realize if you want to support feminism, this isn't the way to do it. As I've said before, if anything Anita & Co. are HARMING feminism by making the word become synonymous with "dishonesty" and "zealot" for an entire community of people, and I'm sure that the less intelligent members of that community COULD actually learn the wrong lessons and develop into sexist individuals because of it. Ever seen a racist black guy who became racist BECAUSE of all the times he was targeted by racism? I have, it's one of the most tragic things in the world cause you wanna sympathize but at the same time the guy's a ****. They exist and it happens. And it could happen here too, with some men or gamers concluding that women are all selfish liars that seek special treatment and attention, and if they don't get it they'll try and ruin your life. Please, don't be a part of that and don't support that. ;P The side opposite to them is by no means perfect either, but it is in my opinion the more logical choice. I avoid dishonesty like the plague, regardless of the party's gender, race or other status. That's an excellent post, thanks for sharing. You've raised some good points. I'll respond generally I believe that human beings in a modern world should conduct themselves in certain way that doesn't offend or hurt the feelings of others, especially if they are in the public limelight and have been made successful through a career like music which is dependent on there fans. Like Kayne West . How people should conduct themselves may seem subjective but its not that difficult to understand what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. So for example what Kayne West did was completely insensitive but did he know the fan was disabled? It doesn't seem like it but he does need to apologize for obviously creating a very embarrassing situation. But to he honest I think Kayne West is completely self absorbed and narcissistic. He is a celebrity who cares primarily about one thing, his image and that's fine if that's the legacy he is concerned about. I admire someone like Angelina Jolie much more who has done really good work by using her celebrity status to raise awareness to various causes through the UN You right that I am not a minority in the sense I am not gay, a women or black and I personally have never been the victim of real and sustained bigotry. But does that mean I can't empathize with people who are discriminated against or be opposed to it? I have first hand experience with homophobia and racism and I have seen how humiliating and harmful these kinds of feelings can be . These forms of bigotry are real, there are people who wake up every day who have decided that because of someone's sexual orientation they are automatically a lesser person who doesn't deserve the same respect as a "normal straight " person. And there are people who think that the colour of persons skin automatically means they aren't as intelligent as a person with white skin, And there are people who think that because a person is a female there are certain areas in society and conversations they must stay out of. I am opposed to any of these generalisations that are ultimately based on one thing...." a dislike of a certain person because they are different to you". Its as simple as that, there is no proven genetic difference that automatically makes someone inferior. Its because they are different to you and so some people feel the need to undermine that person because they are different. And I will continue to be opposed to this type of perspective Finally I have said several times that I think Anita is doing the greater cause of gender equality more harm than good because she is confrontational and tends to incite people rather that educate people. But the issue I have is the generalisations we now see on forums like this where the words " SJW " is loosely thrown around as an insult whenever someone wants to dismiss anything that is related to any issue about relevant social justice transformation. For example someone says " we need more inclusivity in games", instead of people actually taking the time to read the article we see comments like " typical SJW rant" So people are demonstrating the exact same behaviour they say they are opposed to, they are painting all SJ initiatives with the same brush. They are doing the same thing that they say they dislike Anita for where she says things about "all gamers " and makes generalisations. They aren't interested in looking at the individual case but they just dismiss it So end of the day most of us seem to agree the gaming industry needs to be more inclusive on certain levels. I think the disagreement is how do we achieve it, personally I believe constant awareness and visibility is necessary because normally people don't change there minds about the status quo unless there is pressure. Because for most people they believe that the current situation is fine. In other words games are inclusive enough. And this is where we have a disagreement of opinion

OMG...check this latest trailer for The Evil Within....to say it is brilliant is an understatement http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/17/the-evil-within-horror-game/#more-234341

I'm playing Rage at the moment and its great fun. I first tried to play it in 2011 when I was using XP and despite all my efforts the game never worked properly. I ended up uninstalling it in a bout of nerd rage. Anyway the game reminds me of Fallout 3 and F:NV and that is only a good thing

Gromnir needs to use correct English, as well as quote properly. Then he might contribute in a constructive fashion. Half his posts are illegible as they are right now. He seems to be too caught up in his forum persona though. I'm not sure if that's sadder than a troll or not. I think that's unfair, I admit in the beginning I battled to understand his posts all the time but he makes a lot of sense on certain topics. And he generally takes the time to explain his perspective which I respect

Epic post Volo, epic post

I'm interested in what were the key points you explained to your students? A summary of course. Oh and kudos to your school for teaching them about this development

I don't know, I'm finding it quite funny to be honest

Sorry Malc, I don't understand your response. Maybe someone can explain You seem surprised that someone called you a sociopath. And if I understand you correctly they called you that because you found it humorous that you could manipulate people and get a reaction by lying to them. What am I missing ?

No Volo, that is not what I am saying But I will say I think white, heterosexual males are the least most discriminated group in the world. I don't feel the need to defend this demographic because generally its unnecessary. Normally we aren't the targets of hate groups or religious persecution, like the way gay people are targeted by some religious organisations I think what you mean to say is that they are, outside of some countries in Africa, rarely discriminated against for being white. Discriminated against for being male? Could argue that being sent to another country to wage a war you had no interest in, or facing execution is something that happens to males a lot more than it does to females, but eh. In most of our countries that was a few generations ago, so let's let that slide. People are often more than just white and male though, and they can certainly be discriminated against those other things which they also are. Because they have red hair, because they are short, because they have asthma and can't run very fast, because they like to play with trains, because they have an accent, because they are jewish, because they are catholic ... or protestant ... or atheist .... Ad infinitum. So... Saying that white males are never discriminated against is just not very helpful. I would have thought my perspective would be obvious but its clear I need to explain further Firstly I never said "white, males are never discriminated against ". I said they are the least discriminated demographic in the world So answer a few questions for me, How many anti-white supremacist groups do you know about ? Please list some groups that exist that explicitly state in there manifesto that the objectives are to ensure the survival of the black race or for that matter any other race apart from the white race and they are fundamentally opposed to white males ? Even Al-Qaeda will accept white males who follow there religious doctrines Please list the countries that have outlawed heterosexual relationship and where the death penalty exists for anyone engaging in heterosexual relationships. This is the reality that gay people face in certain countries Please list the countries where men can't work or cant drive ? I can list countries where women have no rights whatsoever Please tell me what countries in the world ban marriage between a man a women and refuse to recognise these types of unions, these are the realities many gay people face who want to get married I can continue to list examples but I think my point should be clear. When I say "white, heterosexual males are the least discriminated group in the world" I'm talking about the big picture in the world. Not just the gaming industry. And I stand by my point that its an absurd suggestion that white males are generally the victims of discrimination and bigotry We are not, we have it easy.

Oh was just commenting on how fun it can be to mess with people by intentionally lying to them to aid in manipulating them somehow. Not seeing how that is really sociopathic, I guess you lack empathy by treating people as tools ? But eh, I've done that with my relatives, interesting to watch the false gossip spread and them react to things that never actually happened. Do you think its normal behaviour to think its fun to lie to people in order to manipulate them? I'm not judging you, I just want to understand what you consider normal?

That looks amazing, I wonder if it will be as challenging as the first one ?

I'm overweight, no degree and live with my brother. I have been doing contract work for the past years because no one wants to give me a set job. Whatever you issue you have, I win. When you feel like crap, think of that Swedish guy on the Obsidian boards that has it worse. Don't worry Calax and Labadel, I like you guys and think you are cool

No Volo, that is not what I am saying But I will say I think white, heterosexual males are the least most discriminated group in the world. I don't feel the need to defend this demographic because generally its unnecessary. Normally we aren't the targets of hate groups or religious persecution, like the way gay people are targeted by some religious organisations

No Volo, I am opposed to any form of bigotry

This. Bruce I think you mean well, but at the same time you seem to overreact to anyone simply not agreeing with a point made by a feminist. I mean name where excuses were made on behlaf of the people harassing her. If anything, the most common voice has been "she's irrelevant to the main issue anyways so I don't see why people bother harassing her." If I may...?? Why are you so passionate about the feminist movement? Why does it interest you so much? I don't mean that to sound like a pandering attitude, rather I'm merely curious about your backround and what your personal motivation is for liking and supporting the feminist side of things so loyally. I mean, you aren't a woman. Not being a woman doesn't mean you can't show interest (I would show interest in supporting equality for gays, blacks, women and klingons, and I'm none of those) or support, but it does mean your reasoning isn't as straightforward as "it benefits me," thus I'm curious. I am a liberal and due to the fact I grew up during Apartheid I have experienced first hand what happens when bigotry and discrimination become institutionalized. Its destroys people and severely impacts there dignity So I am opposed to any form of bigotry that includes sexism, homophobia and racism. As far as sexism is concerned in the gaming industry I am not saying the entire industry needs to change and misogyny is rife but there are certain changes that should happen purely in the interest of inclusivity. I don't think this means a paradigm shift in the development of all games but developers need to be aware of there entire fanbase. And many companies like Bioware and Obsidian are already aware of this and ensure there games are inclusive to all demographics

Well from the name, it's an advocate for women. Usually the case anyway, though these days I am told it is to mean someone who wants "equal rights". Okay well I'm glad you aren't suggesting it means a hatred of men or the marginalization of men. Please can you explain this to Volo, he will listen to you as you guys are both from Canada Well I know what the word means, it means where people believe in equal rights for women in the eyes of society and in the law. This is of course campaigned and implemented in different ways based on the individual case I don't know about that Wolf Wozniak case, do you have a link? http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikkain/files/2014/09/wozniak3.png It has been removed since, but the entire lead up and aftermath can be found here, up to the point where he apologizes for bringing it up. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E3BZP3PHeQE/U_qaRte_a1I/AAAAAAAAAr0/giIdTegX16w/s1600/zqsexualharassment.PNG The problem with cases such as these is that they tend to get removed out of fear of (more) backlash. Thanks, I'll go through it is? You and your strawmen are hilarious. Suppose I can tell my friends I don't think there is any problems with equality because I think some internet activists are full of ****. I'm missing your logic? I said to you that generalisations are unhelpful. In the post you quoted I used the word " several" not "all", I am not generalising That doesn't mean my post is directed at everyone., Your post about feminist overlords is just fatuous and cannot be substantiated by a rational mind. Its just done to get a reaction where people will say " yes those annoying feminist overlords...the nerve of them"

Stow it, Gamer. Accept your feminist overlords. This type of comment is unhelpful to this debate, all it does is encourage more invective against the campaign for gender equality which is not the same thing that radical feminists believe. And radical feminists are really what most people are opposed to. Its never good to paint everyone with the same brush KP

I didn't see that but I have watching loads of commentary today and its really interesting how the polls are still very tight. No one can say with certainty which way it is going to go. I could be wrong here, but I believe it will be against independence. It's hard to get people to actually go out and vote against the status quo. I'm guessing a noteworthy amount of the pro-independence block will simply not show up. On this issue I am not an expert though. I think it boils down to the undecided voters as they still represent an influential block Lets hope you are wrong I see Alan Greenspan is spelling economic doom and gloom for Scotland if they vote Yes, but I don't know how much credibility he carries anymore ?

Well from the name, it's an advocate for women. Usually the case anyway, though these days I am told it is to mean someone who wants "equal rights". Okay well I'm glad you aren't suggesting it means a hatred of men or the marginalization of men. Please can you explain this to Volo, he will listen to you as you guys are both from Canada Well I know what the word means, it means where people believe in equal rights for women in the eyes of society and in the law. This is of course campaigned and implemented in different ways based on the individual case I don't know about that Wolf Wozniak case, do you have a link?

Still rolling with this, eh ? Kind of funny to see someone argue a word means something else than what was written. Well, at least you've not caught on to the 'wrong side of history' talking point. Quinn's nothing special, so if people want to be skeptical of her writing a naturally biased article, big deal. Well, other than people like you when it comes to women, anyway. Also https://archive.today/BQbD7 Polygon didn't get the "listen and believe" memo about women it seems. What's your definition of the word feminist Malc?

I didn't see that but I have watching loads of commentary today and its really interesting how the polls are still very tight. No one can say with certainty which way it is going to go.

This, I can't speak for others but I am definitely not a troll As a way to dismiss my point people have accused me of being a troll but it has no substance. I sometimes joke with people but that's not the same thing as trolling In fact being called a troll is one of the few things that really annoy me

That's a good story Gromnir and I'm also glad you were cleared. I must say you do seem to have been exposed to some of the worst aspects of human nature, like when you use to walk with your sister and protect her after she was attacked at Varsity. But generally you don't seem that jaded with humanity and that's an impressive character trait And I agree about the truth being subjective for some, there are several people on this forum who are desperate to believe and convince themselves that the cause for gender equality isn't real and there aren't real instances of sexism and misogyny that exist in society and in gaming culture. So for example this article about Zoe Quinn and how she was victimised is automatically dismissed and excuses are made for how people treated her because it doesn't suit there narrative. Also despite the fact that " gamers" doesn't mean all gamers people just continue to give there own definition of the word and express "outrage" and "anger" . They aren't interested in the what the word really means

Volo you are intentionally misunderstanding what he is saying. He is not saying that at all

This is an excellent post, very sincere and accurate. I hope people take the time to understand the points you are making