BruceVC

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers. Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same. That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed". If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything. Explain. Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger? But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future. Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement Why do you ask ? Is there a deadline for it to achieve something? And if it inevitably falls short of the bar in your head, what is your suggestion? It has at least made talk of social justice issues, heh, in gaming a bit more in the forefront. Perhaps. No thats not why I am asking, don't assume the worst when people ask questions Meshugger said GG has " won" ...whether he is joking or not I am still interested in what impact GG has made over the last 8 months to the people who support it Its not an unusual question

Wow okay, you set your bar low as far as quantifiable achievements of GG is concerned? Surly GG has achieved more than just protecting you from SJW...come on you can do better than that Volo ?

No ****, that's because the circumstances of Muslims is in no way comparable to that of gamers. Muslim's exist in a culture of islamophobia where they can be subject to state sanctioned harassment, detainment and murder. Articles demanding an "end to muslims" in such a culture would not be tongue-in-cheek or mere hyperbole but instead contribute to the actually existing violent status quo. You cannot simply replace one group with another and treat it as if the implications are exactly the same. That said, who the **** cares that some random websites wrote some melodramatic articles on 'gamers'. I've been playing games all my life and quite frankly couldn't give a ****. Until we live in a world where employers are not hiring gamers, people are running around murdering gamers or the state itself has "declared war on gamers" you are just another tumblr generation kiddie desperate to be "oppressed". If we cannot change games journalism, then we might as well give up on everything. Explain. Compared to all other injustices that exists in the world, ethics in games journalism is quite a small thing in the grander schemes of things. But if this fails, how can people possibly be able to overcome anything bigger? But GamerGate has already won, so i am optimistic about the future. Just remind me again, what has GG achieved in the last 9 months? And I'm not being condescending, I want to see how you guys see the success of the movement

Yeah, he can't be serious which is why there is no point in responding Its like he read the handbook that says " how to annoy people who care about gay rights on a forum "

So are you suggesting that Anita wants to separate the races in education?

" Dude you are clearly trolling now when you say things like " I'm gonna see gay men walking around holding hands " So I wont take the bait I'm dead serious. I don't like it, but I don't really have a choice. I genuinely want to see these people happy, but at the same time my mind and body reject the concept, it's nauseating unfortunately. *sigh* Any gay guys here, just know that when people see you affectionate in public, you're making them sick to their stomach, but we'll tolerate it for your happiness. A normal human being without mental trauma looks upon such things as a sickness of the mind. (CONTROVERSIAL TERRITORY ENTERED). You guys can start calling me names now. I'm not sure to take you seriously so because I have time I will assume you are being serious Lets start with this, if you want members of LGBT community to be happy why are you against same sex marriage. Thats what the LGBT community want, they want legal equality in things like marriage ?

Well I would think you would be concerned in legitimate questions around GG, its about the credibility of the movement which in turn would lead to it being more effective and influential.

What exactly was Volo right about ? That Anita wants to separate the genders? He has repeated for 9 months that SJWs are really racists in disguise. Okay he has indeed repeated this I agree but how does this Twitter link support this? All Anita is saying is studies have revealed that same race classes have improved studies, I'm not sure I agree but is it racist ? Most people would consider segregation racist. Of course if you implement segregation like in South Africa it is racist I just am not prepared to condemn Anita as a racist until we understand context

" Dude you are clearly trolling now when you say things like " I'm gonna see gay men walking around holding hands " So I wont take the bait

What exactly was Volo right about ? That Anita wants to separate the genders? He has repeated for 9 months that SJWs are really racists in disguise. Okay he has indeed repeated this I agree but how does this Twitter link support this? All Anita is saying is studies have revealed that same race classes have improved studies, I'm not sure I agree but is it racist ?

What exactly was Volo right about ? That Anita wants to separate the genders?

I'm going to be honest but there has been very little coverage about this on the international news channels I watch...so I see this election as a non-event in the global stage It will only be interesting for those that care about the Canadian elections ...and that will be very few people. I imagine the South African election is similar ? Well, there really isn't a lot of coverage until the election is actually called and parliament is dissolved. The fixed election date is October and the campaign usually runs like 2 1/2 months, so there won't be a ton of news till July, but there has been more movement than usual before an election. The conservatives are using a ton of federal funds to run ad campaigns to try to make themselves look good as the sitting government. The NDP has been releasing policy info early to get people used to the idea that they actually have policy ideas, since they have never formed government. The Cons have also been running negative attack ads against Trudeau for like 2 years, which he's mostly ignored, a tactic that has mostly worked since his approval has gone up every time the Cons run ads, but either way the Liberals are starting to make their policies public now as well, since part of the attack ads have been about how he has no ideas. You are probably right about it not being big internationally though. I just saw the other threads and a lot of local news coverage and figured I'd get a head start. I think elections are interesting. If you wanted to do a thread and keep people updated when the SA elections happened, I would definitely check it out. What I also meant to add is this topic is interesting to me but don't get disheartened if there is a lack of general interest in this thread. Its not the topic but rather what I think people on this forum find interesting

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32856232 So its old news but always good news to see winds of progressive change sweeping the world. In this case Ireland is set to become the next country to legalize gay marriage What is different is Ireland has always been a more conservative Catholic country in its views towards this type of societal development and this decision was decided by a popular vote and not the politicians...this is a first in the world apparently So well done Ireland

I assume these. Yes these, it becomes a subjective debate whether all 12 articles attacked and demonized all gamers As has been pointed out several times many gamers, like myself, took no offense to all 12 articles. Yet there were " 12 articles that attacked gamers" ...its an exaggeration and subjective and needs to be rejected if people are going to use it as fact for a valid reason for the creation of GG

First off, GG has been blind to years of journalistic abuses due to being nonexistent, unless time travel has been invented while I wasn't looking. You could argue that the people who later become gamergaters weren't, but that's a statement impossible to prove or disprove (although we can point at the circumstantial evidence of their prolonged silence, which doesn't seem to support your statement). Second, you're basically just reinforcing my point. The straw that broke the camel's back wasn't Gamespot firing an editor for the oh-so-horrible crime of handing out scores lower than 8 to AAA games (a perfect encapsulation of what's wrong with gaming journalism), it was people "preaching at you" (read: discussing feminist issues in articles you're in no way forced to read). It's a ****ing temper tantrum over the SJ equivalent of TotalBiscuit's weird, but essentially harmless obsession with graphical setting options. He's right Nonek your outrage does seem misplaced and full of hyperbole. I have often alluded to that...you know the whole " soapbox sermons "

Oh...my bad ...

Sorry but this is also another excellent point, why have you guys been silent for so long about the obvious issues in the gaming industry ?

Yikes Alu, as far as hostile misrepresentations of another's argument go, this is pretty bottom-barrel. You didn't use to be such a nasty poster - what happened? I don't think it's a misrepresentation at all. People are still whining about Grayson not disclosing the fact that he had intercourse with Quinn when he mentioned her game (a grand total of, what, two times? three? invariably in contexts where it was easily overlooked?). Hence the accusation that she somehow "stole" exposure from "more deserving" developers. With her vagina. Obviously. I mean, if we're talking about hostile misrepresentation, we could bring up the whole "Sargon of Akkad doesn't know jack **** about statistics but is sure as hell feminists are purposefully lying to us" thing, or "a coordinated attack of 12 articles declaring gamers 'dead'" (more like three articles, none of which appeared in gamer-facing websites, distinct lack of the phrasing "gamers are dead", etc.) all over again, but really, why bother? You picked two issues out of a list. Misrepresentation aside, what are you trying to prove by pointing out that you don't consider these two to be the "biggest" problems? They're what kicked off the entire movement. Depression Quest receiving three sentences that could vaguely be seen as undue praise, and Leigh Alexander calling 'gamers' bad names. Not the fact that gaming "journalism" has been **** for decades, not the fact that most of the content is vaguely-rephrased marketing talk about games that aren't even out yet, not the fact that journalists can be fired for giving a bad score to heavily-advertised games. Not, y'know, actual issues with lack of professionalism that have been present for at least a decade before GG even existed. Gamers have been fine with those. Just how much of a shortsighted fool does somebody need to be in order to fail to notice how the entire industry of gaming journalism has consistently been terrible since forever, but cry bloody murder over the fact that it now also publishes feminism-flavored crap alongside the regular crap? This is a very good post and does raise some valid criticisms of GG, the one I never understand is the misinformation that exists that allowed GG to be created, the part below summarizes this " Sargon of Akkad doesn't know jack **** about statistics but is sure as hell feminists are purposefully lying to us" thing, or "a coordinated attack of 12 articles declaring gamers 'dead'" (more like three articles, none of which appeared in gamer-facing websites, distinct lack of the phrasing "gamers are dead", etc.) all over again, but really, why bother? " Most GG people, like Nonek, have bought into this lie of " 12 articles all attacking gamers " ..and yet don't seem interested in the truth. Its like some people just want to display outrage and vent

I'm going to be honest but there has been very little coverage about this on the international news channels I watch...so I see this election as a non-event in the global stage It will only be interesting for those that care about the Canadian elections ...and that will be very few people. I imagine the South African election is similar ?

Firewalking has been explained by science 80 years ago. Sorry, I guess I now ruined shaolin monks for you. And for themselves. Because, obviously. That is what i mean...now you understand my argument? They ruin the mystical value of the Force in Star Wars and Templar ability in Dragon Age by scepticism In any pantheism religion, there are many gods, demigods, goddesses...in their story and myth these gods are real in sense of realism as we know and understand about what is real. In Greek there is Hercules son of Zeus and Zeus can give lightning strike and so on, in India there is Rama and Shiva and so on, these characters existed in real sense in their stories D&D and games are like that, no difference, it is a story where divine beings existed in real sense, their existence is something not to argue about because they existed in such state. There is no problem. But Dragon Age isn't like D&D or mythology, the religion in DA is closer to real world religion where you can doubt the existence of God or you can be faithful believing in God existence. By adding scepticism in DA it destroy mystical value of what it should be remain mysterous as in real world. Why put in religion in the first place if you intend to destroy the belief system by justifying why things happen scientifically in the game other than to send message to players that religion is crap? Lets say you right and they are attacking real world religions. Why does it matter, so Bioware are atheists ...so what? Is it wrong to be an atheist ...atheists get attacked all the time and in some parts of the world this can be punished by death or imprisonment if you say " I am now an atheist "

No we are in the greatest era of mankind. Things have never looked better actually, we can cure more diseases and more people are educated than ever before we now are a global world that is interconnected and this positively effects what countries can do and how they act. For example the chances of another Rwanda or Khmer Rouge are very remote ( yes NK is an anomaly due to the Nuclear threat and Chinese support ) We now know sanctions work...this reduces the risk of full scale war to implement political changes (Like Iran) It is now irrefutable that the happiest people in the world live in Western countries. So we now have a framework for what types of governments work and how to generally uplift people. Its not hard to understand that Western style Democracies( despite the challengers) that include components like a respect for human rights, free press and free and fair elections do work and should be copied globally Most of you guys may seem morose but you suffer from perceived first-world views of issues which are not actually that serious in the global picture..the rest of us are dealing with real social and political issues but there is still more good than bad

No I don't think Volo is that deep. I think he makes these misplaced comments of hyperbole because he is jaded and frustrated with criticism from SJW that he feels is unnecessary This is a good post by the way, I appreciate the way you wanting to understand the core reasons for this dichotomy between GG and anti-GG So yes these are all reasonable objectives, I fail to see how anyone would object to these...if this was what GG was really about. Or rather I should say " if GG was about for all its members " Now maybe you right and the constant criticism about SJ initiatives is a symptom for people who see SJ campaigns as a form unethical behavior. But this thread is a good example of what is fundamentally wrong with GG ( and for the record I see the people on this thread as moderates where GG is concerned ...with the exception of people like Luzarius ) Most discussions on this thread are about SJ people and SJ ideas, people literally trawl the internet and look for this Twitter comment or this blog and then this gets ridiculed and attacked. How does this really help with unethical behavior in the gaming industry? So what may be a interesting question ïs " why do people dislike SJ initiatives ?" . Now of course this will vary from person to person but the main reason to gamers that should be relevant is " SJ ideas are diluting and changing our gaming experience where it is not necessary " ..yet this is patently not true and is really just rhetoric. I asked people a while ago to name just 3 examples of where games have changed due to SJ pressure and your gaming experience has been negatively impacted and guess what? People couldn't give me one valid example ...not one. Removing the limerick from PoE doesn't actually change your gaming experience if you are honest...and I didn't expect people to be able to name 3 because you still get games like GTAV ( which I love ) and you still get your male-centric shooters like COD and this is not going to change So then we need to ask what is the real objection to Anita and others? So I think its the constant grandstanding and lecturing...gamers feel guilty even though they shouldn't. They don't like being told they are sexist or they are resistant to change. They feel they are beset by gaming media and the reaction is a movement like GG created on the pretense its about "ethics in the gaming journalist industry " I don't care if Anita thinks GTAV is sexist game or misogynistic. What people like her say sometimes makes sense but sometimes its misplaced. End of the day people take it too personally because unless it is fundamentally changing your gaming experience why do you care ? And finally outside of gaming many SJ initiatives do make sense and are relevant, for example societal abuse of women in some places and homophobia is real and needs to criticized So anti-GG has associated itself with SJW who do care about this, like me, and now GG is seen as an unhelpful and irrelevant movement because it appears to attack the people who support SJ changes. People take SJ seriously in RL and they only see the doxxing and internet abuse but the objective to enforce ethics is now lost

You'll be fine in DA2, just don't be too critical And remember to Romance the beautiful Isabela